ThePrequelsSuck
Banned
A lot of people would say 06, but I'd have to say Shadow the Hedgehog. Maybe Heroes if I'm feeling un-generous (the control is so bad).
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Which game began the "dark age" of Sonic games?
- Thread starter ThePrequelsSuck
- Start date
Linkstrikesback
Member
Adventure. It's only nostalgic memories that stop people realising just how mediocre it and 2 are.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Sonic Adventure.
A lot of people praise the Adventure games, but they're not good games. They're just as broken as Sonic 06. The only difference is nostalgia.
A lot of people praise the Adventure games, but they're not good games. They're just as broken as Sonic 06. The only difference is nostalgia.
Death Insurance
Member
Sonic Adventure 2.
The debut of those characters is when it truly began.
The debut of those characters is when it truly began.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
For me it was Sonic Adventure 2. That was the first Sonic game where I put the controller down and said "no thanks".
Adventure began it, even though I will defend that and Adventure 2 staunchly, they're clearly more in the later camp than the earlier one. Those two games were fun but didn't age well at all, the controls are legit awful now, and they introduced a lot of the aspects (homing spin attacks etc) that feel legitimately un-sonic like today. The original era Sonic games are the only true classics. Adventure has aged no better than any other random 3d platformer of that era.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Adventure was the game I ogled at the demo kiosks but couldn't stand to play much of once I actually got my hands on it a handful of years later, so I'm gonna have to go with that.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I hate to say it because it has it's fans, but it was Sonic Adventure.
SA came out at a time when that kind of game could still dazzle (it's very "PS1 era" level of primitive 3D game design).
But as that same type of game design was repeated in later eras of gaming (Sonic Heroes in mid-PS2 era, Sonic 2006 in 360 era), it was revealed to be a bad time.
SA came out at a time when that kind of game could still dazzle (it's very "PS1 era" level of primitive 3D game design).
But as that same type of game design was repeated in later eras of gaming (Sonic Heroes in mid-PS2 era, Sonic 2006 in 360 era), it was revealed to be a bad time.
Pretty much, I mean there has to be a reason the Adventures are remembered so fondly and if I had to explain my own stance, it's because they are looked back fondly since they were enjoyable games at the time.
However even with nostalgia in mind it's hard to look past the fact that they did age awfully, and how bad mostly showed when Sonic 06 tried to do similar gameplay and failed awfully. I can fully say if I were to play the Adventures now for the first time I'd probably stop on the first stage since nostalgia is just about the only thing that carries the games for me, and that really isn't a benefit everyone can enjoy.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Adventure in the sense it began the particular formulae and trends that culminated in the titles people openly and publicly loathe. But the main event is Shadow the Hedgehog, no doubt.
ScientificPizza
Banned
If not Adventure, then Adventure 2
Ludger Kresnik
Member
I'd say Shadow. I can still enjoy replaying the Adventures and Heroes but I'll waste no time giving up on Shadow.
Jonneh3003
Banned
No way, Sonic Adventure 1 is one of those games I play at least once a year, the Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Gamma levels are still really fun.
Sonic Heroes was merely average, Shadow the Hedgehog is where it began.
hydrophilic attack
Member
sonic the hedgehog
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I guess I have to wonder if someone saying this is old enough to remember what Sonic meant in the Genesis era. It used to be one of the major franchises in gaming, beloved by core gamers, and it was highly relevant. Now it isn't.
Sonic definitely fell off. The question is by how much.
Jonneh3003
Banned
I agree actually, the Advance and Rush trilogies were great and Colours was brilliant as was Generations. There's probably around 5 out right bad Sonic games which is pretty good considering how many games there are.
Most of the bad games released during the genesis era. Some spinoffs were truly mediocre.
show me your skeleton
Member
I'd argue it's easier to count the good sonic games.
McGruber21
Member
I don't know...I've never played a Sonic game that I thought was horrible...Except for Sonic Riders on the Wii. The controls were such garbage I stopped playing after 1 race. The Sonic All Stars Racing games are awesome though and probably the best Sonic games in 20 years, so I wish they would make a third entry.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
I love Sonic Adventure, I just put out a video on The Definitive Way To Play Sonic Adventure, and even I'll admit the beginning of the end was Sonic Adventure.
It has things about it that are definitely charming, it's very ambitious for its time, and I'm sure there were a lot of struggles they went through in figuring out a good way to make a game as fast as Sonic work in 3D (back when 3D was still a relatively new medium), but there's simply no denying that it wasn't a stable foot forward.
It was shaky. Uneven. Parts of the game seem confused as to what, exactly, they're trying to do. It started an uphill battle that Sonic Team only just barely seemed interested in engaging with. Often it felt like they had completely different goals compared to what consumers actually wanted. And the two rarely crossed paths.
Even now, it can still feel that way. Sonic Mania is the first time in a very, very, very long time that Sega actually feels in tune with what people want and how people want it, and it took them literally hiring out of the Sonic fan community to achieve that.
And all of it started with the original Sonic Adventure.
It has things about it that are definitely charming, it's very ambitious for its time, and I'm sure there were a lot of struggles they went through in figuring out a good way to make a game as fast as Sonic work in 3D (back when 3D was still a relatively new medium), but there's simply no denying that it wasn't a stable foot forward.
It was shaky. Uneven. Parts of the game seem confused as to what, exactly, they're trying to do. It started an uphill battle that Sonic Team only just barely seemed interested in engaging with. Often it felt like they had completely different goals compared to what consumers actually wanted. And the two rarely crossed paths.
Even now, it can still feel that way. Sonic Mania is the first time in a very, very, very long time that Sega actually feels in tune with what people want and how people want it, and it took them literally hiring out of the Sonic fan community to achieve that.
And all of it started with the original Sonic Adventure.
Personally quality-wise, Heroes for me.
If we're talking the... weirder story direction, maybe Adventure 2. People point at the first Adventure but I don't really agree, that's more of a bridge between two Sonic eras, even if it was open world and more story-driven. SA2 is where the world of the games starts getting really out there, even at the time I kinda noticed it.
If we're talking the... weirder story direction, maybe Adventure 2. People point at the first Adventure but I don't really agree, that's more of a bridge between two Sonic eras, even if it was open world and more story-driven. SA2 is where the world of the games starts getting really out there, even at the time I kinda noticed it.
BassForever
Member
Quality wise heroes
But obviously the adventure games laid the groundwork for the disaster that was to come
But obviously the adventure games laid the groundwork for the disaster that was to come
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
Sonic Adventure
Yeah, it fell off but so did Sega as a whole. There was never a dark age.
If you're asking me it's batting average of masterpieces like the mainline Mario series? Then it's batting terribly low, but the games are not nearly as terrible as people try to say they are. Obviously there is Sonic Boom and Sonic 06 marred with bugs and being generally unfinished products, but the series is pretty decent in good to great, to okay games. The idea that it's just been terrible since genesis, or adventure, is just not true.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Big the Cat's Froggy Adventure.
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
I liked Adventure, and I still feel that underneath Adventure 2's terrible story and voice acting there's a fun enough game.
Adventure 2 definitely felt like a turning point though, much like Sega, that the series was losing its identity and didn't really know which way to turn.
Adventure 2 definitely felt like a turning point though, much like Sega, that the series was losing its identity and didn't really know which way to turn.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I remember being hyped for Sonic Heroes. Somehow I still felt the Sonic Adventure games were bad merely because the developers were new to making 3D games and still ironing the kinks out. But Heroes made me realize the problem with those games was actually a matter of sheer incompetence. My opinion of the people in charge of Sonic Team has not changed.
I loved them at the time, but can't deny, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 where utter toss from a gameplay and control perspective.
Adventure had some nice ideas and was lovely to look at, but it was a glitchy, twitchy, shit of a game to play.
To be quite frank, we're still not out of the dark ages as far as I'm concerned. Generations and Colours were OK - but that's it. Still, at least Sega had the sense to greenlight Sonic Mania - that game looks gorgeous in every sense.
Adventure had some nice ideas and was lovely to look at, but it was a glitchy, twitchy, shit of a game to play.
To be quite frank, we're still not out of the dark ages as far as I'm concerned. Generations and Colours were OK - but that's it. Still, at least Sega had the sense to greenlight Sonic Mania - that game looks gorgeous in every sense.
Sonic and the Black Knight was also horrible though.
Quite a bit simply because Sonic never managed to nail the jump to 3D like other big franchises franchises did. The speed gameplay always collided with moving around in a 3D space, especially due to the challenges in terms of camera movement and controls it presented, and it took them until Unleashed to nail that or at least manage to somewhat make Sonic work in 3D, depending how you feel about the boost trilogy. That was a long time until then however, and before that, they spent plenty of time in falling attempting to get Sonic on his feet in 3D space.
This is backed by the fact that while level design isn't always the best, Sonic series has been going relatively strong in the 2D department throughout the years. I'd be hard pressed to find many that I absolutely couldn't enjoy at all, with Sonic 4 Episode 1 and Sonic Rivals coming the closest.
Stormblessed
Member
Adventure added the unnecessary friends and was the beginning of their narrative focus in the series, so it started a lot of the bad trends that are present in the later games. But while it plays poorly, I think it's one of those situations where you need to keep in mind when it was released. Adventure 2 failing to substantially change anything was what really foretold the dark age.
Azure Phoenix
Member
Heroes. The Adventure games have aged kinda poorly compared to the gold standard 3D platformers of that era, but they were great back in their day (something a lot of people seem to ignore when crying them down nowadays). Heroes tossed out everything that Adventure got right and replaced it with an awful team mechanic, shoddier controls and woeful level design that abused the enemy health mechanic to force you into prolonged fights on tiny platforms over death pits. It was also just about as glitchy as Sonic 06 at times, I ended losing S ranks on almost every stage due to falling through rails and other garbage.
After Heroes we had years of trash with Shadow, Advance 3, 06, half of Unleashed, Black Knight and Chronicles.
After Heroes we had years of trash with Shadow, Advance 3, 06, half of Unleashed, Black Knight and Chronicles.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Adventure.
I both agree and disagree. I disagree with the fact that the dark age never began as they certainly brought out a lot of terrible games at one point. The transition to 3D did not go very well for Sonic. However, I think it's largely the spin-offs that make it seem worse than it actually is. Sonic Rivals, Riders, the storybook series and so on.
For me, if you count the handheld games, there has been a consistent stream of good Sonic games throughout most of the franchise's history. Here are the post-Genesis games that I personally enjoyed:
1998 - Sonic Adventure
2001 - Sonic Adventure 2
2002 - Sonic Advance
2003 - Sonic Advance 2
2004 - Sonic Heroes (Extremely flawed game, but I enjoyed the 3-character mechanic.)
2004 - Sonic Advance 3
2005 - Sonic Rush
2007 - Sonic Rush Adventure
2010 - Sonic Colors
2011 - Sonic Generations
Actually, I would say that between Sonic Generations and now, this has been the largest gap between two good Sonic games. However, it's not like they've released that much since then other than Boom. They've definitely slowed down the releases.
Adventure transformed the series from being a fun, well-paced, physics-based platforming action series with multiple paths based on skill and zero plot clutter, into a janky, notoriously bloated linear QTE-fest action series with intrusive plots that do nothing but induce eye-rolling and boredom.
Revisionist nonsense. Whether Sega as a whole fell off is pretty irrelevant when we're talking about Sonic, it's also ridiculous to pretend he somehow hasn't fallen off, that's probably the surest sign that some people in this thread did not live during 16 bit. Sonic was literally bigger than fucking Mario at one point. Think about that for just a second. That's how big Sonic was in 16 bit.
To try and say that the sonic spin offs are somehow the low point is nuts, Spinball is miles better than the shit we get today, let alone shit like 06.
Generations is the closest they've ever come in the modern day, and it's STILL got half of the levels in the 'new' style which are awful, and the 2d stages are still not as good as the originals. When the best modern game's claim to fame is 'hey, only half of the game is bad' the series has a fucking problem.