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Which game began the "dark age" of Sonic games?

Sonic the Fighters.

It heralded Sega's desire to unnecessarily expand the sonic universe with his shitty friends.
 
Really it's just the 3D games that have been mostly misses. The Advance games were pretty good and Sonic Rush was great. But if you are talking purely about console games I would say Adventure. I mean the first two games aren't that terrible and hold up better if you don't play the shitty pc ports. But after SA2 pretty much everything until Colors was garbage.Then there was Generations and we live in an age of garbage until (probably) the new Generations-like game. Or Sonic Mania, as that is technically a console game.
 
Rymuth said:
Sonic the Fighters.

It heralded Sega's desire to unnecessarily expand the sonic universe with his shitty friends.
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Almost every single character in Sonic the Fighters already existed previously in a different game. The only actual new character was Bark the Polar Bear.
 
Adventure. I loved those games to death when I first played them but playing Sonic Adventure 2 HD was such a disappointing experience because it was the first time I realized how bad my nostalgia goggles changed my perception of that game. I scripted a whole video breaking down how flawed most of the mechanics are in SA2 but I never ended up making it.
 
I think the lack of a proper Sonic on Saturn showed already that Sega didn't have a lick of an idea what to do with the main-series in 3D.
 
I can't accept all this Sonic Adventure 2 hate. The Sonic/Shadow and Knuckles/Rouge levels were good for the most part and I spent countless hours raising chao like it was an addiction. I'll concede that the Tails/Eggman levels were ass, though.

Personally I'd say almost everything from the last generation was the dark age. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic 06.
 
Adventure onwards was just a mess of mediocre or bad 3D games, until half of Unleashed was great, Colours pulled from that and made the first great 3D sonic game and Generations built on that.

But yeah, I'd say the pre-Colours 3D era of sonic was the darkest time.
 
Adventure was where my enjoyment in Sonic games died. The graphics blew me away at the time since I was still a teenager, but the 3D platforming gameplay wasn't anything amazing after playing Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot before it and I remember "beating" the game after a few hours with Sonic and then realized I had to play as some other clowns I never heard of to actually finish the game and I just had no desire to go back through it with those other characters.

Haven't played a Sonic game since then. Colors and Generations bumped the needle but I could never get around to actually playing them since the magic is gone. I feel the same thing will happen when Sonic Mania comes out. As much as I love the Genesis Sonic games, I think that spark for Sonic games is gone for good in me. A sad end for a Genesis kid at heart. :(
 
Sonic Heroes, it was the moment they showed indecision between pushing the series forward and pandering to Mega Drive/Genesis fans. They should simply have kept going with the Adventure and Advance series and kept them separate.
 
Adventure. Some decent parts in that game but as a whole, it was never actually good. Bugs everywhere, terrible level design, emphasis on story and shitty characters, horrible voice acting, etc. There were bad Sonic games before but they were spin-offs.

Adventure 2, while still flawed, was a much better game imo but it was already too late at that point. Still, we have gotten a few good Sonic games since then but unfortunately, the bad outweighs the good significantly.
 
Adventure had its flaws but I still enjoyed it. I'd say overrall it was a decent game.

Adventure 2 was the first one where I stopped playing because I didn't find it compelling.

Heroes was garbage, and after this they were all crap.

So yeah, Adventure 2 or Heroes.
 
enkaisu said:
I can't accept all this Sonic Adventure 2 hate. The Sonic/Shadow and Knuckles/Rouge levels were good for the most part and I spent countless hours raising chao like it was an addiction. I'll concede that the Tails/Eggman levels were ass, though.

Personally I'd say almost everything from the last generation was the dark age. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic 06.
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Only one third of the game was good and those were the Sonic/Shadow levels, and even those suffer from shitty collision bugs, especially on the forest levels. Knuckles levels are absolutely infuriating past Pumpkin Hill. Unleashed is far and away better then SA2 because half of it is regular Sonic, and they're enjoyable levels at that.
 
Sonic Adventure 2.

Sonic Adventure 1 was still set in a sort of fantastical world mainly and still had things like Angel Island involved. SA2 cutscenes had shit like Paris and the President of the USA in them. Sure you had Pumpkin Hill bolted on, but then other zones were just ARMY BASE or SAN FRANCISCO.
 
TheYanger said:
Revisionist nonsense. Whether Sega as a whole fell off is pretty irrelevant when we're talking about Sonic, it's also ridiculous to pretend he somehow hasn't fallen off, that's probably the surest sign that some people in this thread did not live during 16 bit. Sonic was literally bigger than fucking Mario at one point. Think about that for just a second. That's how big Sonic was in 16 bit.

To try and say that the sonic spin offs are somehow the low point is nuts, Spinball is miles better than the shit we get today, let alone shit like 06.

Generations is the closest they've ever come in the modern day, and it's STILL got half of the levels in the 'new' style which are awful, and the 2d stages are still not as good as the originals. When the best modern game's claim to fame is 'hey, only half of the game is bad' the series has a fucking problem.
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I was actually referring to spinoffs like Labyrinth and Drift but since you bring up Spinball I do think that most modern games surpass it, Spinball is a bad pinball game. Thats opinions for you though, just because my opinion differs to yours doesn't mean it's "revisionist nonsense".
 
SMD said:
This is what Stockholm Syndrome looks like, folks.

Sonic 3&K was the last time it looked like a game that deserved hype. 3D Blast was trash, Adventure was and still is an awful attempt at making Sonic relevant in 3D and the vast majority of Sonic games were dross since then. Generations did a good job of bucking the trend but really it's more lowering the bar than anything.
Terrible controls, broken cameras and crap level design can't be ignored. If you felt like you had fun, that's between you and your demons.
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I'm glad you're voicing your opinion, but I'm not sure why you're singling me out. I acknowledge there have been dozens of trash Sonic games. In fact, most of the ones I mentioned are 2D games. A lot of people enjoy those.
 
I think part of the problem with the series is it has two very different audiences who appreciate different things and different games. There's the audience which likes tightly controlled, fast paced 2D platformers with classic values like high scores and no emphasis on plot or characters and the audience which likes the Sonic universe and enjoy the characters, plot and atmosphere through things like the excellent animated series and comics who tend to value 3D immersion, exploration, cutscenes and a large cast of characters.
These threads are always a bit ridiculous since they become full of the first type of fan labeling games held dearly by the second type of fan as trash. The Adventure series was a huge hit within segments of the audience as well as commercially on the GCN which should be recognised, not every Sonic game has to be for you.
There were plenty which received a lackluster or negative response from both sets of fans which are more appropriate starting points for a "dark age".
 
Heroes gets my vote. Not saying Adventure 1 and 2 were perfect. They obviously laid the foundation for the bullshit that came after. But Heroes was the first main Sonic game I played that I didn't like and it just got worse from there with Shadow and 06. At least the GBA/DS games were okay.
 
First bad game: CD
Begining of the rot: Adventure 2
Adventure one let you play the Sonic bits alone, 2 forced the alternate gameplay into the core of it. Not to mention the hip, cool, dark sonic.
 
rochellepaws said:
I think part of the problem with the series is it has two very different audiences who appreciate different things and different games. There's the audience which likes tightly controlled, fast paced 2D platformers with classic values like high scores and no emphasis on plot or characters and the audience which likes the Sonic universe and enjoy the characters, plot and atmosphere through things like the excellent animated series and comics who tend to value 3D immersion, exploration, cutscenes and a large cast of characters.
These threads are always a bit ridiculous since they become full of the first type of fan labeling games held dearly by the second type of fan as trash. The Adventure series was a huge hit within segments of the audience as well as commercially on the GCN which should be recognised, not every Sonic game has to be for you.
There were plenty which received a lackluster or negative response from both sets of fans which are more appropriate starting points for a "dark age".
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I mean if you want to get in to it, Sonic has a lot more than just two audiences and they all expect wildly different things out of the franchise.
 
Adventure and Adventure 2.
God what trash games. This is the point where the games were basically 1/3 decent at best The story also started taking itself seriously. Shadow has to be the worst character ever introduced.
 
Adventure 2 for me.
The original Adventure was extremely fun at the time even though it was flawed. Adventure 2 could have been brilliant but it was the beginning of the decline.
 
Adventure. It was okay for its time, but it was nothing but style over substance and its a curse that most modern Sonic games can't shake. The design just isn't there. They always think of a decent take on Sonic (Colors, Generation, Lost World) but they always completely drop it for the next game, never giving it time to evolve.

It's too bad because those three games on their own show promise, but they aren't exactly good games (sorry, Generations lovers, but I just don't see it). They should be able to recognize winning formula and stick to it for at least another game. Generations could have been a great series, but as it stands it's just another half-baked good idea with shit level-design and clunky controls.
 
Zalman said:
For me, it was Shadow the Hedgehog. It ended with Colors though, but Lost World wasn't that great either. Thankfully the handheld games have been consistently good through Advance and Rush.
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Yes to this. I feel as though the handheld games never got the love they deserved; great soundtracks, visuals and fun gameplay all around. It's a shame that as the quality of the console Sonic games started to improve, the handheld games kind of went into their own mini "dark age" starting with Generations 3DS.
 
It began with Adventure and it got particularly bad with Shadow. A lot of series went through quite the transformation during the 2D -> 3D transition mind you, but the Adventure foundation was always going to lead to the complete crap we got afterwards and they were already clunky enough as is.

But I've never been an enormous Sonic fan mind you. I think the originals, Colours and Generations and some of the handheld ones range from good to pretty great, but in no way to the point that I adore them or anything. And on the other hand that means I'm not particularly "offended" by any dark age of Sonic either. The only ones that were proper offensive to me were 06 and Shadow.
 
Nicky Ali said:
Yes to this. I feel as though the handheld games never got the love they deserved; great soundtracks, visuals and fun gameplay all around. It's a shame that as the quality of the console Sonic games started to improve, the handheld games kind of went into their own mini "dark age" starting with Generations 3DS.
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I noticed this too, and it's why I'm hungry for Sonic Mania. I haven't enjoyed a Sonic game since Generations in 2011, and it feels like ages ago since we haven't had the handheld games to tide us over.
 
People saying Adventure because they aged badly make no sense.

There are many games of that era in the same boat cuz you know what? Technology improves and all that.
Adventure games at their time where very good (critical acclaimed btw). How has aged shouldn't be in consideration in this matter. It's SEGAs fault to not being able to improve that formula in next entries with those techs upgrades.
If you still thought back in the day they were bad, then I'm fine with putting them into this (which I still disagree).

About OPs question. For me it was Heroes. They tried to expand the Adventure formula instead of refining what they already had. The result was a very bland experience that didn't met SEGA's sales expectations and put them a lot of pressure into Sonic 06 and then lead into many ways to try to make sonic great again (Which for me, only Generations worked a bit).
 
crash-14 said:
People saying Adventure because they aged badly make no sense.

There are many games of that era in the same boat cuz you know what? Technology improves and all that.
Adventure games at their time where very good (critical acclaimed btw). How has aged shouldn't be in consideration in this matter. It's SEGAs fault to not being able to improve that formula in next entries with those techs upgrades.
If you still thought back in the day they were bad, then I'm fine with putting them into this (which I still disagree).

About OPs question. For me it was Heroes. They tried to expand the Adventure formula instead of refining what they already had. The result was a very bland experience that didn't met SEGA's sales expectations and put them a lot of pressure into Sonic 06 and then lead into many ways to try to make sonic great again (Which for me, only Generations worked a bit).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wouldn't peg Adventure as the point it all started going down. It was a solid first step and came out the same year as Nintendo 64 was getting into full swing. Of course it's janky, but such is the world of most early attempts at converting 2D games to 3D. SEGA only really had problems by not improving much from there. It still did a good job at making Sonic come to 3D finally, and showed off the Dreamcast's capabilities with stuff like online DLC (in '98!) and raising Chaos and taking them with you via the VMU. Fun stuff.

So yeah, personally I'd go with SA2 as the starting point. It has a ton of memorable stuff, but it was the first point SEGA had a chance to improve on the ground work and they... mostly didn't. And then things got weird with Heroes and Shadow and then '06 happened.
 
enkaisu said:
I can't accept all this Sonic Adventure 2 hate. The Sonic/Shadow and Knuckles/Rouge levels were good for the most part and I spent countless hours raising chao like it was an addiction. I'll concede that the Tails/Eggman levels were ass, though.

Personally I'd say almost everything from the last generation was the dark age. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic 06.
Click to expand...

Those levels are decently fun to play, but by Adventure 2 the character designs have become cringeworthy and the story is off the rails

Shadow and Rogue are awful characters
 
BasilZero said:
Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic Heroes.


Adventure/Adventure 2 was the last great one before the "Dark Age".
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I agree, Adventure 2 was still good (there is nothing better than abusing a Chao).

And these intros will never not get old.

tumblr_nxphqvU34y1ugpysho1_500.gif


Screw you, guys.
 
Well, it's actually a terrible series with exceptionally good games.

By exceptionally good, I mean Sonic 2-3-Knucles.
Then, Sonic, Sonic CD and Spinball.

The rest is mostly crap. That's depressing.
 
Sonic Adventure.

As much as I liked that game I only liked the Sonic parts and I only put a lot of hours into that and Adenture 2 because of the chao garden, the other characters changed the game a lot more drastically than what Tails and Knuckles ever could in Sonic 3 and it was a sign of things to come.
 
The first shit Sonic game in the mainline series (so not counting Sonic Blast and Sonic 3D Blast) is imo Shadow the Hedgehog and it started a streak with Sonic the Hedgehog right afterwards (though Sonic Rush may have interfered here?). After that, the next shit Sonic was Sonic Black Knight, but there was Unleashed in between and then we had to wait until Boom for another abysmal Sonic. So I think the dark age was quite short, lasting from Shadow to Sonic 06. Also, Sonic Adventure 2 is considerably better than 1.
 
Sonic Heroes was better than Adventure because they removed the hub world. But gameplay had the same issues. I had to wait till Colors for stable 3d platforming.

It was a missed opportunity that Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix did not get the recognition they deserved.

They were some of the most advanced 2d platformers.
 
man iam shocked. sa1+2 were just mindblowing and sega corrected mostly all mistakes from the first adventure game.

i would say sonic 06, with all those weird bugs, glitches and where do i have to go now(they were present in sa1+2 but not as fucked up as in 06)
 
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