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Which games were most ahead of their time?
- Thread starter Chairman Yang
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jeremy1456
Junior Member
Tsubaki said:
Wha?
Grandia II's battle system, and skills/magic systems are more advanced than the original Grandia.
Okay maybe the skill point system is kinda lame, but it's still better than "Cast spell X amount of times to learn new one".
Chris Remo
Member
I honestly don't see how either of these were ahead of their time.Blablurn said:
SterileZorro
Member
Fifa Soccer for the 3DO. Jet Set Radio on Dreamcast.
typhonsentra
Banned
The first thing I thought of too. Congrats.Morbid Angel said:
Best PvP ever, even today.
Link648099
Banned
Sathsquatch
Member
Deus Ex: So far ahead of its time that even its sequel couldn't match its depth.
Myth: First use of physics in a strategy game. Still some of the best tactical use of terrain in an RTS. First major RTS to eschew the resource-collecting conventions.
Myth: First use of physics in a strategy game. Still some of the best tactical use of terrain in an RTS. First major RTS to eschew the resource-collecting conventions.
typhonsentra
Banned
Why do people keep saying RE4? It's an outstanding game but it doesn't do many things that are actually new. Same thing goes for Oblivion.
jeremy1456 said:
You may not like how spell learning is done in Grandia, but it still is more advanced than the "find one of the 8 eggs in the game!" oversimplification in G2. One of my favorite things about Grandia is that giving Justin a water egg and giving Sue a water egg will lead them on two different paths. The spells are based on the individual, not the actual egg. Each character was differentiated. GII (and on...) just got dull and allowed everyone to use anything.
I also fail to see how the actual battle engine of Grandia II was better than Grandia's. It's pretty much the same thing. Grandia Xtreme changed it slightly by making SP charge up like a fighting game.
Javaman said:Talk about jogging my memory! This one comes to mind, especially since it was designed by some of the same folks responsible for Archon.
Yep. Exactly. No one picked up on this golden theme until Rampage started showing up in every aracade. Also, Sim City used a giant-monster attack as a natural disaster as I recall.
Edit: Added Sim City reference.
Antagon said:True. Like I said, the game was buggy as hell as well.
Although I do have to say that it was running effects like depth of field and Anti Aliasing all in software mode.
Edit: I really wonder why the second part was cancelled. It seemed to be coming along nice. The first PS2 screens released looked amazing for its time (2001).
I know, I'm late, but hell, made less blurry, those graphics would look good today. At the very least, that's some Tomb Raider: Legend shit there.
Zaxxon said:
I think it's more about the mood, immersiona and just general use of a game as something communciating emotion with piles of texts or dialogue. Games still struggle do to this.
Dune 2 - first rts, really set up the rts sytem
Aliens Vs Predator - Jaguar- It was a FPS with different types of characters to play that did different things, and your levels were goal and mission based instead of run in and kill everything in sight. At the time the game was frowned upon for these things, now these things are common.
Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
Fight for Freeform said:
Hell, I'd say more like 3/4 of the games listed in this thread shouldn't be here. Oblivion? FFVI? MGS? Grandia? RE4? Lunar? WTF.
Runningflame570
Banned
Tsubaki said:
I've played Grandia & Grandia II..beat them both for that matter. Grandia's skill learning system appears far more primitive to me. It is based preety much upon the same thing normal levelups are. Grandia II's actually allow for more customization and are considerably more advanced with three seperate aspects.
Special Attacks: Each character has unique special attacks, while most of the first ones do more or less the same thing they are all different later on.
Mana Eggs: While any character can use any egg there arn't duplicates of mana eggs so you effectively have each character only able to fill a particular role (attack, heal, assist, or some combination) at any one point.
Skill Books: These use the same currency as special attacks and many basic skills (up HP, DEF, ect) repeat but there are also many unique skills are characters only have a certain number of slots to equip skills with. Lots of customization here.
Compare to:
Grandia with weapon/magic levels while each character has mostly unique skills/spells there are also lots of repeats and skills all levelup with some basic experience calculation. Once you buy a magic type for a particular character it is always there and the skill leveling becomes grinding at some point, this depends on the enemy levels in the area.
Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
Finaika said:
loads gun.....safety off.....puts gun to my head. Fires.
Damn. Missed again.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Metal Gear Solid 2.
I really hope we can wind up saying Deus Ex, because it's honestly the best hybrid of multiple genres I've ever seen. Great stealth, action, and RPG elements all blended in almost perfectly.
I'm also going to say Diablo 2's ahead of its time. I know it's just a hack and slash game, but seriously, so much of this game is so perfect and nobody can seem to figure out how to improve on most of it (Titan Quest sort of improved on it, but not entirely). Every time I get reinterested in D2 for a couple months or so, I wind up wondering why MMOs and other hack and slash games don't use more of D2's ideas.
I'm also going to say Diablo 2's ahead of its time. I know it's just a hack and slash game, but seriously, so much of this game is so perfect and nobody can seem to figure out how to improve on most of it (Titan Quest sort of improved on it, but not entirely). Every time I get reinterested in D2 for a couple months or so, I wind up wondering why MMOs and other hack and slash games don't use more of D2's ideas.
cartman414
Member
Pac-Man
Donkey Kong
Pitfall
Gradius - variable powerup gauge? don't mind if I do!
Bionic Commando - awesome bionic arm gameplay
Zelda I
Zelda II - an ahead of the game combat system, well-integrated experience and magic RPG mechanics, and visible overworld enemy encounters
Metroid - nowhere near perfect, but set the template for platform based adventures
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 3 - for the powerups, more explorable stages and world maps
Tetris
Metal Gear
River City Ransom
F-Zero
Phantasy Star I + II
Shining Force (or Fire Emblem)
Sonic the Hedgehog
Street Fighter II
Super Mario Kart
Final Fantasy VI - barring the FMV cinematics, already did everything FFVII did, only far better
Chrono Trigger - multiple endings and new game+ in an RPG
Jumping Flash
Super Mario 64
Tales of Phantasia
Shin Megami Tensei series - did the monster recruiting thing first
Grand Theft Auto III
For PC:
King's Quest
Space Quest
Quest for Glory
Prince of Persia
D+D Gold Box games
Half-Life
Baldur's Gate
Planescape Torment
Deus Ex
And word on the Toys for Bob related picks.
Donkey Kong
Pitfall
Gradius - variable powerup gauge? don't mind if I do!
Bionic Commando - awesome bionic arm gameplay
Zelda I
Zelda II - an ahead of the game combat system, well-integrated experience and magic RPG mechanics, and visible overworld enemy encounters
Metroid - nowhere near perfect, but set the template for platform based adventures
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 3 - for the powerups, more explorable stages and world maps
Tetris
Metal Gear
River City Ransom
F-Zero
Phantasy Star I + II
Shining Force (or Fire Emblem)
Sonic the Hedgehog
Street Fighter II
Super Mario Kart
Final Fantasy VI - barring the FMV cinematics, already did everything FFVII did, only far better
Chrono Trigger - multiple endings and new game+ in an RPG
Jumping Flash
Super Mario 64
Tales of Phantasia
Shin Megami Tensei series - did the monster recruiting thing first
Grand Theft Auto III
For PC:
King's Quest
Space Quest
Quest for Glory
Prince of Persia
D+D Gold Box games
Half-Life
Baldur's Gate
Planescape Torment
Deus Ex
And word on the Toys for Bob related picks.
Runningflame570 said:
Perhaps that's the case, but I find it more realistic. If you're not going to cast your fire spells, then you shouldn't be learning any new ones. The way mana eggs were handled in G2 on just felt like they're trying to appease the immediate satisfaction crowd, losing that aspect of it.
I don't disagree with your comments about Skill Books. They added a little something, although Grandia Xtreme improved on that one a bit more for further customization.
Your opinion on mana eggs is noted, but I do not feel the same way about it as you do. To me it cheapens the experience and ruins the individuality of each character. You claim it is more strategic to have each egg to be unique and reside with a particular individual, but in the first Grandia, each character had their own unique set of spells that made one better for healing, another better at offensive spells, etc. Maybe your point is that potentially each character in Grandia could have healing spells, but there aren't enough mana eggs in Grandia to give each character the four realms. So in strategical practice, it amounts to a similar thing, but Grandia keeps individuality.
I'm not sure what your point was with the Special Attacks, because Grandia has them too.
Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
firex said:
'Cept System Shock came out 6 years earlier.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
i like that someone brought phantasmagoria up. it's clearly ahead of its time, but in a far more negative way (unrealized potential, fumbling around in new territory, etc.) the fact that it came on 7 cd's in its day was astonishing. they really tried to do something good with that one, and it fell pretty short if i recall my playthrough correctly. they learned alot from this one when they made gabriel knight 2, which is so much more superior. that one came on 6 cd's, and i say that one was pretty far ahead of the curve, too.{Mike} said:
I'm having a lot of trouble thinking of a game that's 'ahead of its time'. It's a very hard concept to specify.
But, I guess Elite would have to be up there.
There were plenty of other isometric puzzle type games before it, but yes, Last Ninja was the most spectacular of them. Ahead of its time? Possibly. It certainly put everything to shame at the time, and for quite some time after.
I love IK+. But it's definately not ahead of its time. In fact it's just a rip off of Karate Champ.
Archon was awesome. First and only battle chess style game to ever work in my opinion. Still love playing it to this day. Ahead of its time or just an idea finally realised?
But, I guess Elite would have to be up there.
Fredrik said:The Last Ninja, the 3D isometric perspective and advanced control method was quite spectacular for it's time.
There were plenty of other isometric puzzle type games before it, but yes, Last Ninja was the most spectacular of them. Ahead of its time? Possibly. It certainly put everything to shame at the time, and for quite some time after.
IK+, probably the most advanced one stick one button controls for a fighting game, and you fought against two guys at once.
I love IK+. But it's definately not ahead of its time. In fact it's just a rip off of Karate Champ.
Stitchy said:
Archon was awesome. First and only battle chess style game to ever work in my opinion. Still love playing it to this day. Ahead of its time or just an idea finally realised?
anotherworld
Banned
Here are some pics of the games that IMO where ahead of its time.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Hitler Stole My Potato said:
I understand you saying that about Oblivion, MGS, FFVI, and maybe Grandia, but Lunar?
You do know that it was on the Sega CD right? In Japan the game was released in 1992, and considering all of it's cinematics and voice overs, you'd be a fool to say it wasn't ahead of it's time.
Runningflame570
Banned
Tsubaki said:
That is really more a matter of opinion than any kind of technical superiority in Grandia.
tsubaki said:
I've considered buying Grandia Xtreme, would you recommend it?
tsubaki said:
Once again, this is just about all subjective in nature and shouldn't be taken as any kind of superiority on Grandia's part.
tsubaki said:
Point noted..I did that to show that there are three independant leveling elements within Grandia II. You are welcome to your opinion and I can respect you for that..in fact, Grandia was better in everything except for combat (especially the story) but it isn't technically superior.
gamergirly
Member
Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
jeremy1456 said:
So because it was on CD it was ahead of its time? What about Y's Books 1 & 2 that came out on the PC Engine CD player 2 years before? It had a ton of anime cinematics and voice overs too.
Games ahead of their time eh? 
Let me introduce...
Star Raiders - Atari circa 1979.
Designed and programmed by Doug Neubauer, also the designer of the Atari 800's POKEY IO/audio chip. Truly ahead of its time, this game introduced first person space combat to the masses. Complete with a pseudo 3D star map, smooth pre-scaled sprite first person combat, and even starbase docking sequences, Star Raiders would set the tone for countless 3D space action games to come.
It may not look like much in those shots, but in motion it's more impressive. Very smooth and very fast. Good sound effects too. And in its day, if you were there at its debut - it was mindblowing. Nothing quite looked or played like it before - and certainly nothing that one could play at home. It had (for its time) incredible depth. Most games of the era were very simple, mostly shoot and dodge affairs. Star Raiders was ASCII Star Trek remade into a real time first person action game, complete with strategy elements, basic resource management, and dogfighting. And unless you played it on an Atari 800 (or a subsequent Atari computer with a real keyboard) you really never played Star Raiders - the original game makes HEAVY (and excellent) use of the keyboard to supplement the joystick.
I still have my original 1979 Star Raiders cart someplace... Sadly my Atari 800 was dead and buried long ago.
Here's a good interview with Doug Neubauer regarding Star Raider's development. It reveals just how new and unique the game and the software technology it represented was for its time. Ahead of its time? You betcha!
http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon/BOOK/NEUBAUER.HTM
Let me introduce...Star Raiders - Atari circa 1979.
Designed and programmed by Doug Neubauer, also the designer of the Atari 800's POKEY IO/audio chip. Truly ahead of its time, this game introduced first person space combat to the masses. Complete with a pseudo 3D star map, smooth pre-scaled sprite first person combat, and even starbase docking sequences, Star Raiders would set the tone for countless 3D space action games to come.
It may not look like much in those shots, but in motion it's more impressive. Very smooth and very fast. Good sound effects too. And in its day, if you were there at its debut - it was mindblowing. Nothing quite looked or played like it before - and certainly nothing that one could play at home. It had (for its time) incredible depth. Most games of the era were very simple, mostly shoot and dodge affairs. Star Raiders was ASCII Star Trek remade into a real time first person action game, complete with strategy elements, basic resource management, and dogfighting. And unless you played it on an Atari 800 (or a subsequent Atari computer with a real keyboard) you really never played Star Raiders - the original game makes HEAVY (and excellent) use of the keyboard to supplement the joystick.
I still have my original 1979 Star Raiders cart someplace... Sadly my Atari 800 was dead and buried long ago.
Here's a good interview with Doug Neubauer regarding Star Raider's development. It reveals just how new and unique the game and the software technology it represented was for its time. Ahead of its time? You betcha!
http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon/BOOK/NEUBAUER.HTM
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Hitler Stole My Potato said:
I didn't say Lunar was the first CD RPG with cutscenes and voice overs (I even included Ys Books I & II and Cosmic Fantasy 2 right below the Lunars on page 2 of this thread).
A game can be ahead of it's time without being the first to do something.
EDIT: Also, this kind of thing was not an industry standard at the time.
And if you wanted to get even go deeper into it, Lunar had a very unorthodox battle system (movement of position on the battlefield) that I can't remember in any turn based RPG from that time period.
Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
jeremy1456 said:
Then I don't know how Lunar could be considered ahead of its time. It's pretty ordinary. It's ALWAYS been ordinary. The only thing Lunar ever had was the voice work and the anime cut scenes, something that was already done before. Just because it was the first rpg for the Sega CD player doesn't make it ahead of its time.
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