He sure does beat over the head with it ... and delivers 15 minutes later and at the end of the game. I don't think this 'theme' has anything to do with his teams' betrayal later on.
Sure. I'm not saying the theme solely regards the team. It's a theme after all, so in any cohesive work it should permeate everything. Lo and behold, that's exactly what it does: Big Boss, Volgin, The Boss, The Cobras, Russia, America, The Philosophers... etc. All are tied in with the idea of relative enemies. Why would the support team/future Patriots be any different?
Snake/Raiden get double crossed all the time in earlier games. Even if that was the intention, merely connecting two plot points does not make it convincing as it's not borne out organically via characters.
Whether it's convincing or not is up to you. A lot of people are saying there was no suggestion that the support team would become The Patriots and that Kojima pulled it out of his arse in MGS4. I'm pointing out threads that were put in place that suggest he may have had them in mind from the start of MGS3. Most people already made their minds up about it when MGS4 came out, so I'm unlikely to change any entrenched opinions. I just thought it was worth pointing these things out since it appears to be a little more ambiguous than a straight ass-pull as was first thought.
I don't see this as meaning what you're implying but even if it were to, this is something some other character (Sigint) says in reference to Zero. That's all we get. Zero himself never shows any such knowledge or insight anywhere else.
Whoever says it, a direct connection is made between Zero, Electronic Information Warfare, and a unified world. He subsequently turns out to be the head of the uber-Electronic Information Warfare organisation that wants to make a unified world. Barring any translation issues, someone wrote that connection in. What was the intention given what we now know? Yeah, it could simply be a reference to MGS2 but I don't think it's tinfoil hat territory to suggest maybe it was foreshadowing, given everything myself and others have pointed out.
If this is sufficient character development for you, then fine.
Cheeky!
I'm not saying that these bits of foreshadowing are good substitutes for character development. There's fifty (?) years between MGS3 and 4 where we don't see them, so of course they are devoid of any meaningful character development. Hell, they aren't even characters in MGS4 as much as they are actions; anomalous influences emanating from a super-secret shadow organisation.
I think these references are little set-ups, 'plant and grabs' that hint at what these characters will become, not actual character development. The main crux of people's complaints have been "I don't see how X can end up doing Y". I think we're given the seeds for those transformations in MGS3, rather than the transformations themselves which obviously occur over the 50 years we don't see.
Ultimately, I hope you see where others like me are coming from, which is that the links between 3 and 4 are not as obvious or as convincing as you're implying.
I absolutely do. I hope you and others like you are willing to at least entertain the possibility that Kojima knew who The Patriots were as early as MGS3, given the large number of hints and the game's overall theme.
There may be some way to reconcile the two, but it feels like a stretch all in service of a 'Gotcha!' moment. It may have made MGS3 more interesting for some people to revisit but it doesn't make MGS4 any more interesting because there is no context. Zero dying at the end meant nothing. He doesn't have character development in 4, everything related to him and his being happens off screen.
MGS4 is gash. That particular plot twist isn't the reason why though.
I've spent too much time on something I don't even mind that greatly...it's just annoying that's all.
Yeah. I'm a little weary of juggling multiple posters myself
