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[Anton Sugar]

You don't think race relations have improved since 1950? What do you want from this girl in return for wearing this haircut? Like I said, I see this girl as a symptom that race relations are improving in the country.

Should we take the time to highlight areas we need to improve upon still? Sure. I think the conversation in this thread is a positive thing.

Sorry, where did I say that race relations haven't improved since the 1950s? Of course it has!

I've already stated, numerous times in this thread, that being educated on the root of the outrage is really the best you can do in this particular situation. It at least makes her aware of why it can be seen as an issue and I'm a huge believer in awareness as a component for change.

She sure is hell isn't seeing this on other white people in the media.

I posted an article earlier that praised white women who were embracing cornrows as a "new" fashion statement.

It's also entirely possible she saw the style on a black woman and said "I like that".

 

[styl3s]

There are things inherent to institutionalized racism.

This isn't one of them.

My sister rocked corn-rows a while back, looked awesome.

I find it slightly sad and depressing that these people consider their only cultural heritage to be their hair.

And hasn't braiding been a thing for thousands and thousands and thousands of years between many races?

 

[-COOLIO-]

The girl comes off as incredible clueless in the apology letter. I wonder where and how she was raised.

You have GOT to elaborate on this.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I think people should take a long, hard look at their culture and determine if it's doing them any good.

If your culture demands you spit hate, maybe it's not working out.

If we're going to play that game and paint with broad brushes, I guess we should totes decimate "American culture" at large since it has rampant homophobia, racism, misogyny, anti-semitic...or is my brush suddenly too big?

 

[Infinite]

Sorry, where did I say that race relations haven't improved since the 1950s? Of course it has!

I've already stated, numerous times in this thread, that being educated on the root of the outrage is really the best you can do in this particular situation. It at least makes her aware of why it can be seen as an issue and I'm a huge believer in awareness as a component for change.

I'll go as far to argue that it hasn't. Overt racism was only replaced with colorblind racism which you can experience through browsing a page of this very thread. Jim Crow was only replaced with the drug war the difference between them being one is blatant and the other is covert.

 

[Jawbreaker]

It's a shame she apologized. She shouldn't have to feel bad about how she's wearing her hair. The people attacking her might genuinely feel a certain way due to Western standards of beauty, but their ire is woefully misplaced.

 

[Rembrandt]

Mods here are better. Alert them if you think it's a problem (it is, gross comments ITT) and they'll fix it.

Will do. I'm just curious to see how much worse it can get.

Isn't it obvious she thinks that anyway? She's a 12 year old white girl. You think she looked at other older white women and thought, "gees that looks good on her." She sure is hell isn't seeing this on other white people in the media.

Didn't somebody post a pic of a white model with box braids? Granted, it'll be a leap for me to assume she got it from there or other photos of unaware of but who knows. But nah, I wouldn't assume she got the hairstyle because she admires black women either because that's just as big of a leap. She probably saw the hairstyle on a person irl or tumblr/twitter, thought it looked cool and got it. Nothing deeper or malicious.

 

[Dice]

I absolutely guarantee she would. What makes you think she wouldn't?

Because I'm a white boy from the ghetto, and utter disbelief, mockery, and indignation has always been the reaction when I try to claim roots/belonging/love of things I grew up with around people who didn't originally know me from that. Because I'm now white in the working world, I am by default just an everyday saltine. I find that the role is pressed on me by the backlash when I differ from it, and so I generally moderate my expression in my love of things "black" that to me are just my natural upbringing. Expect division and you will find division. Reject bonds and you will lose them. Not to say I don't feel free among friends, but in the sphere of larger society, wider expectations rule and are thus perpetuated.

 

[BennyBlanco]

She actually pulled it off and it looked good.

 

[pokeystaples]

we callin white people "mayo" now?

If I had a dollar for every time someone called me chocolate I would be rich as fuck.

I have no problem with white girls getting box braids, but they usually look pretty bad. I have never seen a white person rock cornrows, box braids or locs and it look as tight as a POC.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I'll go as far to argue that it hasn't. Overt racism was only replaced with colorblind racism which you can experience through browsing a page of this very thread. Jim Crow was only replaced with the drug war the difference between them being one is blatant and the other is covert.

Wow

 

[Anton Sugar]

I'll go as far to argue that it hasn't. Overt racism was only replaced with colorblind racism which you can experience through browsing a page of this very thread. Jim Crow was only replaced with the drug war the difference between them being one is blatant and the other is covert.

I agree, to an extent, but I also think it's harder to measure it. It's possible that overt racism has just been replaced, in equal parts, by colorblind/casual racism, gentrification, and other "under the surface" racism, but I don't know that it can be compared to the degree of oppression experienced 50 years ago.

 

[Ingueferroque]

If we're going to play that game and paint with broad brushes, I guess we should totes decimate "American culture" at large since it has rampant homophobia, racism, misogyny, anti-semitic...or is my brush suddenly too big?

What is happening here is racism, no?

Or am I looking at it wrong.

To be honest, race did not come to mind when I saw her hair style.

If I had a dollar for every time someone called me chocolate I would be rich as fuck.

How does that make any of it right? Are you saying it is alright to call white people mayo because white people are racist too?

 

[Guevara]

If we're going to play that game and paint with broad brushes, I guess we should totes decimate "American culture" at large since it has rampant homophobia, racism, misogyny, anti-semitic...or is my brush suddenly too big?

If your culture demands you be any of the above, you should drop that too. It's not impossible: culture is fluid. Keep the parts that you value or that help you out, drop the rest.

 

[pokeystaples]

Wow

Where is the lie tho?

 

[Wiktor]

I've already stated, numerous times in this thread, that being educated on the root of the outrage is really the best you can do in this particular situation. It at least makes her aware of why it can be seen as an issue and I'm a huge believer in awareness as a component for change.

At the same time though the people who posted all those outrage twitters should also be educated why they're doing something wrong. Creating impression that black culture is hostile towards white people is something that slows down the change.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Where is the lie tho?

All over the place.

 

[BeEatNU]

There's nothing wrong with liking a hairstyle and wanting it. Hairstyles do not belong to anyone.

this,

people are truly getting upset over hair?
are you fucking kidding me? This is the biggest problem with our species.
We fight over some of the most trivial things, how can you complain about racist white people when you are a racist black person?
We have so much to fight for instead of color of skin or a fucking hair style.

 

[Anton Sugar]

At the same time though the people who posted all those outrage twitters should also be educated why they're doing something wrong. Creating impression that black culture is hostile towards white people is something that slows down the change.

I agree. I think only highlighting the outrage tweets is not the best way of portraying this issue.

Speaking of, there is no source in the OP. I'm curious about any other responses, other than anger, that she may have received.

 

[Rembrandt]

Because I'm a white boy from the ghetto, and utter disbelief, mockery, and indignation has always been the reaction when I try to claim roots/belonging/love of things I grew up with around people who didn't originally know me from that. Because I'm now white in the working world, I am by default just an everyday saltine. I find that the role is pressed on me by the backlash when I differ from it, and so I generally moderate my expression in my love of things "black" that to me are just my natural upbringing. Expect division and you will find division. Reject bonds and you will lose them. Not to say I don't feel free among friends, but in the sphere of larger society, wider expectations rule and are thus perpetuated.

And you're saying this comes from black people or other white people? Either way, I'm sure it happens but it shouldn't stop you from showing love for things you care about. It goes both ways. Talk to black people that are fans of heavy metal or something. Males that love ballet/opera. These expectations of someone isn't just a race thing and it shouldn't stop people from enjoying things they genuinely care about.

 

[Infinite]

All over the place.

Prove me wrong, homie. Bolding one part of my argument and just saying wow underneath isn't saying shit fam.

 

[Ingueferroque]

I've already stated, numerous times in this thread, that being educated on the root of the outrage is really the best you can do in this particular situation. It at least makes her aware of why it can be seen as an issue and I'm a huge believer in awareness as a component for change.

She seems quite lucid/aware from her response. Are you saying that she should not have gotten that hair style? That would be ridiculous to me...

It isn't like she is in blackface or wearing a wig. God knows how much time it took to get those braids in, and she looks good with it/seems to think she looks good with it. There is no ill intent here.

 

[-COOLIO-]

At the same time though the people who posted all those outrage twitters should also be educated why they're doing something wrong. Creating impression that black culture is hostile towards white people is something that slows down the change.

Yup

 

[Angelus Errare]

What is happening here is racism, no?

Or am I looking at it wrong.
To be honest, race did not come to mind when I saw her hair style.

How does that make any of it right? Are you saying it is alright to call white people mayo because white people are racist too?

No, it's racist. But I detest the idea that the entire culture is somehow bad and ruined because like 6 people on twitter said some racist shit. Some of them from the looks of it aren't even talking about the little girl.

My point is don't damn an entire culture because of 6 people's view on some little girl's hairstyle. Miss me with such 2nd grade fuckery.

 

[Derwind]

Such nonsense. I mean you say a lot of remedial nonsense, but this might be the most idiotic thing I've read from you.

I can just imagine how cool that must have sounded in his head. That shit must have been dynamite.

 

[Fenderputty]

At the same time though the people who posted all those outrage twitters should also be educated why they're doing something wrong. Creating impression that black culture is hostile towards white people is something that slows down the change.

This is really all I'm trying to point out. It's think it's probably a natural part of the change, but I don't think it's particularly good for it.

 

[Ingueferroque]

No it's racist, but I detest the idea that the entire culture is somehow bad and ruined because like 6 people on twitter said some racist shit. Some of them from the looks of it aren't even talking about the little girl.

Of course, I agree with you. We should never judge entire cultures for the actions of a few, I wasn't saying that at all.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I'll go as far to argue that it hasn't. Overt racism was only replaced with colorblind racism which you can experience through browsing a page of this very thread. Jim Crow was only replaced with the drug war the difference between them being one is blatant and the other is covert.

I guess you don't see a major difference in post and pre-CRA America. That's... certainly an opinion.

 

[Anton Sugar]

She seems quite lucid/aware from her response. Are you saying that she should not have gotten that hair style? That would be ridiculous to me...

For the last time (sorry, a little frustrated at this point), I'm fine with her getting the haircut as long as she understands why she might get the responses she got, regardless of whether or not she deserved them. Even better if she becomes more aware of/supportive of black culture in a society that is frequently hostile towards it. I do not believe she had any ill intent or thought "I'm totally stealing this from BLACK PEOPLE!"

It's not enough to say, "Those people are assholes and shouldn't have attacked her!" It's important to understand why they reacted this way. This applies to, well, every conflict you experience, IMO.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Prove me wrong, homie. Bolding one part of my argument and just saying wow underneath isn't saying shit fam.

Prove you wrong that white people don't secretly harbour the same hate for black people that they had in the 1950s? Well, to begin with, that's an impossible argument to prove wrong since I'm not a mind reader, but regardless, rather than even even entertain that notion and piss on the struggle of Blacks in the 50s, I'm going to ignore it all together. If that's what you believe, fine. But I think that idea is utterly devoid of real critical thinking.

 

[Rembrandt]

At the same time though the people who posted all those outrage twitters should also be educated why they're doing something wrong. Creating impression that black culture is hostile towards white people is something that slows down the change.

I feel like anyone that truly feels like this shows black culture is hostile towards white people are racist or stupid. If this makes you more apprehensive towards black people/culture, there's a problem with you. This is exactly like the people saying rioting during Ferguson was slowing down/change and progress. If anything, it gives people justification to fuel their already racist/dumb beliefs and were probably so far gone, they were gonna stay that way. There's too many positive examples to let something like this truly sway someone unless you've had 0 interaction with black people.

 

[Somnid]

That might be a PART of it, but only if the treatment of blacks (and other minority cultures, for that matter) improves in tandem. If people take from black culture without giving anything back or giving appropriate credit or supporting that culture, it's not so much of a fluid transition as it is "hey, thanks for that thing I took!"

This is how people feel but almost pretty much never how it actually works. Soft Power is power, period. It's not as intuitive as you giving a specific directive, it's more organic like internet memes but the net effect is that a culture is bridged, even if there is lots of ignorance with it. It's simply people finding something interesting and when things are interesting they learn about it or it's a piece to relate. The more people understand a culture the more they understand the people even if it seems rather trivial or misguided on the surface level.

Cultures in history that either force themselves on others or encourage appropriation are more successful.

 

[Coconut]

If your culture demands you be any of the above, you should drop that too. It's not impossible: culture is fluid. Keep the parts that you value or that help you out, drop the rest.

"the parts that help you" you might want to rethink that one.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Of course, I agree with you. We should never judge entire cultures for the actions of a few, I wasn't saying that at all.

I agree, my statement was more towards Guevera than yourself. We're on the same page.

 

[Angelus Errare]

This is how people feel but almost pretty much never how it actually works. Soft Power is power, period. It's not as intuitive as you giving a specific directive, it's more organic like internet memes but the net effect is that a culture is bridged, even if there is lots of ignorance with it. It's simply people finding something interesting and when things are interesting they learn about it or it's a piece to relate. The more people understand a culture the more they understand the people even if it seems rather trivial or misguided on the surface level.

Cultures in history that either force themselves on others or encourage appropriation are more successful.

Tell that to Native Americans. It seems to be working out rather swimmingly for them.

 

[Floridian]

Wow it's her hair, let her do what she wants with it.

 

[Ingueferroque]

For the last time (sorry, a little frustrated at this point), I'm fine with her getting the haircut as long as she understands why she might get the responses she got, regardless of whether or not she deserved them. Even better if she becomes more aware of/supportive of black culture in a society that is frequently hostile towards it. I do not believe she had any ill intent or thought "I'm totally stealing this from BLACK PEOPLE!"

It's not enough to say, "Those people are assholes and shouldn't have attacked her!" It's important to understand why they reacted this way. This applies to, well, every conflict you experience, IMO.

Cool. Since it's posted on social media I guess she got a lot of other shitty responses too. I'm sure she's a few people's waifu as well, at this point.

 

[boiled goose]

I saw a black woman with hair dyed blonde yesterday at work. Guess I should have cussed her out.

let's avoid false equivalencies and responding to stupidity with even bigger stupidity.
it is funny how even something so small triggered silly in group mentality here.

I know your response was partially sarcastic but you still suggested responding to another person you identified as being part of the group instead of responding to the people making the comments.

Us vs them. Bigotry at its finest

 

[Angelus Errare]

Cool. Since it's posted on social media I guess she got a lot of other shitty responses too. I'm sure she's a few people's waifu as well, at this point.

Oh god! Well thankfully creepy-GAF stay out of race threads so she's safe from them at least.

 

[Wiktor]

I feel like anyone that truly feels like this shows black culture is hostile towards white people are racist or stupid. If this makes you more apprehensive towards black people/culture, there's a problem with you.

I think you just lack empathy to see how getting angry twitter mob attack a little girl could create impression of hostility.

 

[orochi91]

I think it looks great on her.

Her critics need to chill out.

 

[Infinite]

Prove you wrong that white people don't secretly harbour the same hate for black people that they had in the 1950s? Well, to begin with, that's an impossible argument to prove wrong since I'm not a mind reader, but regardless, rather than even even entertain that notion and piss on the struggle of Blacks in the 50s I'm going to ignore it all together. If that's what you believe, fine. But I think that idea is utterly devoid of real critical thinking.

You're putting words in my mouth and at the same time demonstrating a lack of understanding of what I said while not refuting anything once again. Anton had a legitimate rebuttal to that post in which he said it'll simply be impossible to measure the degree in which new school racist institutions (colorblind racism and the drug war for example) and thought has replace the old school ones (Jim Crow/ lynchings). Basically I'm not going to concern myself with which is worse between those two as both are not good things. I'm not settling for that kind of progress.

 

[Rembrandt]

I think you just lack empathy to see how getting angry twitter mob attack a little girl could create impression of hostility.

Or maybe I read her actual comment where she noted the comments were hurtful, but appreciated. Do you know something we don't?

Likewise, I think people lack empathy if they don't understand why "cultural appropriation" is a thing in American society.

God, also this. 11 pages.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I think you just lack empathy to see how getting angry twitter mob attack a little girl could create impression of hostility.

Likewise, I think people lack empathy if they don't understand why "cultural appropriation" is a thing in American society.

 

[boiled goose]

I think you just lack empathy to see how getting angry twitter mob attack a little girl could create impression of hostility.

Umm. Some people attack someone so this is going to affect my feelings to anyone I identify as belonging to that group is the definition of both stupid and racist.

Lacking empathy? Please.

 

[Angelus Errare]

You're putting words in my mouth and at the same time demonstrating a lack of understanding of what I said while not refuting anything once again. Anton had a legitimate rebuttal to that post in which he said it'll simply be impossible to measure the degree in which new school racist institutions (colorblind racism and the drug war for example) and thought has replace the old school ones (Jim Crow/ lynchings). Basically I'm not going to concern myself with which is worse between those two as both are not good things. I'm not settling for that kind of progress.

Well to be fair, lynching is still a thing. Just ask the American police force. But it's okay when they do it because they're "on edge".

 

[Fenderputty]

For the last time (sorry, a little frustrated at this point), I'm fine with her getting the haircut as long as she understands why she might get the responses she got, regardless of whether or not she deserved them. Even better if she becomes more aware of/supportive of black culture in a society that is frequently hostile towards it. I do not believe she had any ill intent or thought "I'm totally stealing this from BLACK PEOPLE!"

It's not enough to say, "Those people are assholes and shouldn't have attacked her!" It's important to understand why they reacted this way. This applies to, well, every conflict you experience, IMO.

If she didn't have a jaded view of the whole thing before, I guarantee she has a more jaded view now. I think this is made clear in her response by the semi-sarcastic use of quotation marks around words like appropriation.

She's probably had very little exposure to overt racism. I mean shit I'm 34 and I am blown the fuck away watching movies like "The Help" because it seems surreal that our country could have been like this. Concepts like institutional racism weren't even explained to me until college and require more thought than a 12 year old person will have put into it.

That's why I think her hair is more of a symptom if improving race relations and why I think it's important to identify it as such.

I definitely agree that tacking institutional racism is the next hurdle. It's a much more abstract concept, but I think it's demonstrated fairly well in statistics.

 

[coleco]

For the last time (sorry, a little frustrated at this point), I'm fine with her getting the haircut as long as she understands why she might get the responses she got, regardless of whether or not she deserved them. Even better if she becomes more aware of/supportive of black culture in a society that is frequently hostile towards it. I do not believe she had any ill intent or thought "I'm totally stealing this from BLACK PEOPLE!"

It's not enough to say, "Those people are assholes and shouldn't have attacked her!" It's important to understand why they reacted this way. This applies to, well, every conflict you experience, IMO.

When a 12 year old gets braids she's not making a political/racial statement or invading anyone's culture. She just likes the way it looks. She doesn't have to understand anything or become more supportive of anybody or try to justify any kind of attack because whatever.

It's an embarrasing situation for all those who jumped on her and they are the ones that need any kind of education or understanding if anyone involved needs it. There's absolutely no kind of justification for what they did.

 

[kmax]

So people attack her for having a certain hair style...


whycantwealljustbefriends.jpg

 

[Somnid]

Tell that to Native Americans. It seems to be working out rather swimmingly for them.

In what way? There is not a large amount of even superficial Native American culture in wide circulation. The culture wasn't appropriated, it just died because other people didn't care about it and native americans instead absorbed white european culture.