Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
Who was the better Don in your opinion
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Who was the better Don, Michael or Vito
- Thread starter Mister Apoc
- Start date
Vito Corleone.
It's not because of Michael's temper ("IN MY HOME", "Can't you give me a straight anwser anymore?!") or him quickly resorting to murder to solve problems (Five families & the last 15min of Part 2). Vito did the exact same thing to become the Don in the first place (Don Fanucci) and he has the same bad temper ("You can act like a man!!!").
It's because of Michael distrust of Tom Hagen. Though quirky Michael does resolve that little scene fast, I think that Vito would've actually had the sense to recognize Tom's loyalty by that point. Which is important in forming good alliances and being a long lasting Don.
I was really like "The heck?!! Michael what are doing?!! Hagen is the only true ally you ever had. Are messing this up on purpose?!?!?!".
It's not because of Michael's temper ("IN MY HOME", "Can't you give me a straight anwser anymore?!") or him quickly resorting to murder to solve problems (Five families & the last 15min of Part 2). Vito did the exact same thing to become the Don in the first place (Don Fanucci) and he has the same bad temper ("You can act like a man!!!").
It's because of Michael distrust of Tom Hagen. Though quirky Michael does resolve that little scene fast, I think that Vito would've actually had the sense to recognize Tom's loyalty by that point. Which is important in forming good alliances and being a long lasting Don.
I was really like "The heck?!! Michael what are doing?!! Hagen is the only true ally you ever had. Are messing this up on purpose?!?!?!".
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
Do you guys think Vito would of had fredo killed if he was in the same situation as Michael ?
Super Mario
Banned
Depends on your definition of better. Michael was way more powerful and financially successful.
Vito reached people on a much more personal level, and was very respected
Vito reached people on a much more personal level, and was very respected
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
Was Vito more human?
Yes.
Then Vito would also face the unending horror show he and the other Don's have created. Just like Michael had to.
Bolivar687
Banned
Vito.
The ending to Godfather pt. II answers this question pretty definitively, contrasting Vito coming home to his children throwing a surprise birthday party for him, against Michael sitting alone in the cold, having ordered the slaying of his older brother. The look on his face and the way the camera keeps on him says it all: "every decision I've made was wrong."
Michael is not really a Mafioso. A big reason for the Godfather's unexpected popularity is because much of the audience of the time could relate to Michael's position, going to college in a changing country but only being one generation removed from an immigrant and all the cultural traditions they brought with them. Like much of the audience, Michael is between two worlds but in truth, he is effectively an outsider to the mob. He bought fully into the secular American capitalism argument - go to school, have a small family, focus on your career, and don't let anything, especially outdated tradional values or morality, stop you from getting ahead. Michael does things no one in his enclave would do, from enlisting in the military and going to college, to eventually murdering a police captain, assassinating the crime leadership of an entire city on a single day, or doing business with Hyman Roth. Frank Pantangelli is credited as the architect of the Corleone crime family's organization but he admits to Michael that cannot understand how he thinks. Michael does not work through his problems as a Sicilian-American or a Catholic, he is applying the same reasoning he would use if he had finished his degree and gone on to be a leader in business, law or politics.
At best, the films demonstrate that these two worlds are incompatible with eachother. Michael achieves success beyond what any of his associates could ever imagine but both his brothers are dead, his wife has left him, his children are under-socialized and the Caporegimes advising him are just as cold and calculating as he is.
At worst, the Godfather II and how it contrasts the father and son invalidates the American argument. Like Michael, Vito is something of an outsider. He was orphaned and immigrated to America at a very young age. He didn't have to become a mafioso. He lives in his enclave but for the most part, he keeps his nose clean and tries to avoid owing anyone favors. Standing up to and killing Fanucci were bold and unexpected moves like Michael might make but after his transition to organized crime, family and community are what matters most to him, above money and success. He hoards favors and it earns him the love of respect of everyone, not just the neighborhood but the judges and politicians outside it, and the feared and hated within it like Luca Brasi. His international business ventures aren't casinos bringing vice to the vulnerable in a Carribean banana republic, it's for olive oil back in Sicily.
Towards the end of the film, Michael asks his mother if his father ever feared losing his family. They are in such different worlds that she cannot even understand the question he's trying to ask her. For her, abortion and no-fault divorce are things that simply do not exist in her universe.
Michael was the better capitalist but he never understood what it means to be a Don.
No. When Francis Ford Coppola told Mario Puzo that Michael would murder Fredo, the creator and co-writer was horrified. Coppola had to compromise, that Michael would express that he would wait for so long as his mother lived. We see how unthinkable it is when Michael confesses to Cardinal Lamberto in pt. III.
Not saying no mobster never killed their brother before but as far as the character as he exists in that creative world, I would say that would be impossible.
The ending to Godfather pt. II answers this question pretty definitively, contrasting Vito coming home to his children throwing a surprise birthday party for him, against Michael sitting alone in the cold, having ordered the slaying of his older brother. The look on his face and the way the camera keeps on him says it all: "every decision I've made was wrong."
Michael is not really a Mafioso. A big reason for the Godfather's unexpected popularity is because much of the audience of the time could relate to Michael's position, going to college in a changing country but only being one generation removed from an immigrant and all the cultural traditions they brought with them. Like much of the audience, Michael is between two worlds but in truth, he is effectively an outsider to the mob. He bought fully into the secular American capitalism argument - go to school, have a small family, focus on your career, and don't let anything, especially outdated tradional values or morality, stop you from getting ahead. Michael does things no one in his enclave would do, from enlisting in the military and going to college, to eventually murdering a police captain, assassinating the crime leadership of an entire city on a single day, or doing business with Hyman Roth. Frank Pantangelli is credited as the architect of the Corleone crime family's organization but he admits to Michael that cannot understand how he thinks. Michael does not work through his problems as a Sicilian-American or a Catholic, he is applying the same reasoning he would use if he had finished his degree and gone on to be a leader in business, law or politics.
At best, the films demonstrate that these two worlds are incompatible with eachother. Michael achieves success beyond what any of his associates could ever imagine but both his brothers are dead, his wife has left him, his children are under-socialized and the Caporegimes advising him are just as cold and calculating as he is.
At worst, the Godfather II and how it contrasts the father and son invalidates the American argument. Like Michael, Vito is something of an outsider. He was orphaned and immigrated to America at a very young age. He didn't have to become a mafioso. He lives in his enclave but for the most part, he keeps his nose clean and tries to avoid owing anyone favors. Standing up to and killing Fanucci were bold and unexpected moves like Michael might make but after his transition to organized crime, family and community are what matters most to him, above money and success. He hoards favors and it earns him the love of respect of everyone, not just the neighborhood but the judges and politicians outside it, and the feared and hated within it like Luca Brasi. His international business ventures aren't casinos bringing vice to the vulnerable in a Carribean banana republic, it's for olive oil back in Sicily.
Towards the end of the film, Michael asks his mother if his father ever feared losing his family. They are in such different worlds that she cannot even understand the question he's trying to ask her. For her, abortion and no-fault divorce are things that simply do not exist in her universe.
Michael was the better capitalist but he never understood what it means to be a Don.
No. When Francis Ford Coppola told Mario Puzo that Michael would murder Fredo, the creator and co-writer was horrified. Coppola had to compromise, that Michael would express that he would wait for so long as his mother lived. We see how unthinkable it is when Michael confesses to Cardinal Lamberto in pt. III.
Not saying no mobster never killed their brother before but as far as the character as he exists in that creative world, I would say that would be impossible.
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Thank you for this. Im going to have to watch part I and II again.
Robot Carnival
Member
to me, Vito is the better Don. simply because the fact that even thou both Michael and Vito were led onto the path of Mafia by their circumstances, Vito took control of it and made the choices to go into that position while Michael kinda was force into it and later lost in it. I feel Michael knew from the beginning that this is a path of no return and yet he was still lying to Kate, and in a way, to himself. saying that it's all for the family and he'll turn legit in a few years. he was too methodical and over looked the human side of things; it's the textbook example of "when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares into you too". Michael , with all his education and his service in the military, still ended up being swallowed by the responsibility and the power that comes with the position of Don. Vito on the other hand had his options laid out in front of him and he decided that if this is the only choice he has, he'll own it and take control of it, without making any excuses. yet he still remains a family man and he has both the fear, and more importantly, the respect of all those in the criminal world. I think that's the fundamental difference between Michael and Vito.
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
Vito
YOU CAN ACT LIKE A MAN!!!
YOU CAN ACT LIKE A MAN!!!
