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Who were the worst Partners in Paper Mario 64/TTYD?

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
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One of the biggest draws of Paper Mario was that for the first time in Mario history, many minor foes were finally given playable status after years of serving as mooks designed to get killed. Now, this wasn't entirely new...we had Koopa in Super Mario Kart, and Mario Tennis which came out a bit before Mario Kart did this as well, but to actually have the enemies be unique characters with personalities was definitely a stand-out, and something that was sorely missed in the recent two Paper Marios...but that's for another time and thread.

But, being an RPG, it's unlikely you'll actually like all the party members, or use them to an equal amount. There's always that one party member you either don't care for, don't use, or flat out consider a waste of space. To me, Paper Mario is no different, and this is a chance to get a bit negative towards these great games for once and talk about the Partners that rubbed us the wrong way.

Criteria can be from a design standpoint or gameplay standpoint, or both. Choose one character from Paper Mario 64, and one from Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door.

Paper Mario - Watt

How many people, without looking, can name what species Watt is?

The problem I have with Watt is, well, it was quite a left-field choice to use for a Partner straight out of the gate in the first game. It's the type of character you'd usually expect a series to save for a sequel, once they've exhausted all the big names and had the elbow-room to get creative. Now, I don't have a problem with them digging deep into the Mario Bestiary to use some obscure choices, that's something I'd like to see more of, but there's a big difference from "cool and obscure", to "lame and obscure". And Watt falls into the latter category for me.

The enemy Watt was based off of "Li'l Sparky" is one of those enemies that's less an enemy, and more an obstacle. Yeah, it has eyes, but what in the Mario World doesn't? To me, the Li'l Sparky are more or less like the Mushroom or Fire Flowers, it'd be weird as fuck to one into one of those that was an individual and talked, and thus Watt put me off. Even the mainline Mario games don't really care for Li'l Sparky, and its big brother the Hothead, anymore, as they've been pretty much absent except from being thrown into Super Princess Peach (which seemed to use a lot of at the time discarded enemies), and of course the Hothead appearing in Super Smash Brothers, where it's treated as a brainless item and not a living creature. Yeah, Bob-omb more often than not get treated the same way, but at least we had a canon Mario game in 64 establishing that some Bob-ombs possessed their own personality before Paper Mario introduced one. Li'l Sparky didn't get that.

Besides that, Watt's just a boring character. She's (or he, since the character is so indistinct that within Paper Mario 64 and Super Paper Mario they forget it's a girl at parts) got nothing visually interesting about her beyond the pacifier, doesn't really have any real personality outside her intro and sort of just appears without any build-up, and is tenuously connected to the Chapter. Imagine, if you will, they gave us a Shy Guy who rebelled from General Guy's forces in this Chapter instead? But, alas, I might die before I ever see a Paper Mario with a Shy Guy Partner...

Her ability, lighting the way, has some uses but isn't really the neatest ability for a character to have ('lanterns' are rarely fun in games and usually just a tedious chore), and her moveset based around stunning and such is probably more enticing for those who like to use more strategic maneuvers in Paper Mario, but as a kid, I hated her since she lacked any pure power moves and pretty much never used her. I've yet to get back to the original Paper Mario, so I wonder if older, more strategic me might have a change of heart...but for now, Watt should've just stayed in that Toy Box where she belonged.

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - Koops

My problem with Koops stems from a big problem I have with TTYD compared to Paper Mario 64 in general, and not as much his fault---he's just the "worst example of a problem".

Anyway, the big draw of Paper Mario was getting to team-up with familiar Mario enemies, which was new, and it was cute and clever. Goomba! Koopa! Paratroopa! Boo! Cheep-Cheep! Lakitu! Bob-Omb! Uh...electrical thing...well, okay, the last one wasn't mind-blowing, but it was unique. TTYD, however, sort of fudged this up a bit. Another Goomba! Another Koopa! Another Bob-Omb! There was a sense of deja-vu, and it really disappointed me that despite Mario having such diverse enemies, the game cheapened out and re-used almost half of the roster from the first game. Beyond that, we had Yoshi, a novel concept to see him (well, a baby him) as a Party Member in an RPG, but Yoshi got enough spotlight in the main games that it wasn't something I was exactly wanting in an RPG, and then Madame Flurrie and Vivian, cool characters in their own right, but took spaces away that could've been used for equally interesting characters that also paid homage to classic Mario foes. Ultimately, the only new enemy to get promoted to playable was a Squeek of all things, and as an optional character that didn't get a lot of fanfare. But hey, better than nothing, and an obscure enemy that's actually cool to see used that way. Still, though, TTYD dropped the ball on this front as far as I'm concerned...

Now, Goombella and Bobbery were good characters, far more interesting than their 64 Counterparts despite covering familiar ground, so I didn't mind them. But Koops? He just didn't do anything for me. I don't remember Kooper being exactly a stand-out character either, but at least he had a cooler design and looked ready for action, while Koops just looks pathetic and like he could fall over and die at any minute. Sure, Koops had more of a plot with his father and everything, but when TTYD ramped up the story-telling all around, it was a natural evolution that was expected, and thus Koops doesn't really go above the newly set bar enough to impress me. Sorry Koops, but you were technically the third Koopa partner (since a Paratroopa is basically a Koopa---actually, maybe fourth since so is a Lakitu more or less), and more of the same I didn't really want from a sequel. Couldn't you have been a Spike who could toss balls to hit switches? A Hammer Bros.? Something more interesting?

In his defense, he was a decent party-member, and one of my MVPs in a recent playthrough. But just because I used him, doesn't mean I necessarily like him. To me, he's a tool, and nothing more.
 

Dr. Buni

Member
Koops was kinda bland compared to the other characters and I don't like Yoshi's attitude. Can't speak about the original Paper Mario, it is has been too long since I played it.

Vivian the best
 
Yo I'm just popping in here to say if you're dissing my man Koops you better get ready for the storm.


Koops was my real MVP, and even though Bobbery had the best design of all the partners IMO it was Koops who I called on to back me up in battle, he had that sense of "dude who doesn't always get things right but always has your back." Now, this was years ago and I'm long overdue for a replay of TTYD, but I swear Koops was a real bro.

Not as much of a bro as that Yoshi tho, dude was like ready to fuck up everyone all for the Great Gonzales and he let you ride him come on you can't tell me you don't like riding Yoshis especially paper Yoshis.

Also I need to go back to the original Paper Mario, never beat it.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
I remember koops being kinda funny in a sad way...maybe.

Hm I'll go with watt definitely. Don't even remember much about her.

Then maybe goombario and flurrie. Yoshi was cool. Mailman guy was eh.
 

Gabeking

Member
Yeah I wasn't too fond of koops neither..

Sorta off topic but what is the general consensus on the chance of a sequel (one with an actual story and partners... on a console). Y'all think it's a shoo-in, 50/50, unlikely, etc?
 

El Odio

Banned
I'd have to say that Lady Bow was my least favorite. Sure she got quite a bit of use out in the field and her hiding ability could be useful in some instances of fighting but I was never a fan of how her main attack only did one damage did only one damage, making her useless against certain enemies and most bosses.

You also hit the nail on the head of my biggest gripe with TTYD. It's written much better than the original but a lot of it is feels taken from 64 and expanded on.
 

Crayolan

Member
In Paper Mario, I don't dislike any of the partners but when you put Goombario and Kooper next to their counterparts they can't really compare. Goombella and Koops have a lot more personality than both them. Same for Bombette to Bobbery but she's a bit better than the former two. For Watt, I know she doesn't have much personality but she's really useful in battle. If you don't think she's much use maybe you weren't aware that Watt automatically pierces defenses?

In TTYD, Flurrie. I will never understand that design. Never. Everyone else is cool.
 

Ezalc

Member
I think I'm the only one who never cared for goombella for some reason. Flurrie was also pretty boring. Loved Bobbery and Yoshi, Vivian was pretty cool too. God I wish they would make a real sequel to TTYD.
 
Watt was underdeveloped as a character and didn't see much usage during my various playthroughs. Koops is a lesser version of Kooper, and Yoshi's bizarre "hair" has paved the way for creepy OCs. Not a fan.

Bow, Flurrie, and Vivian are the best. Coincidentally, they're all female.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I guess Nintendo could now retroactively claim Madame Flurrie is a Ty-Foo from 3D World...


I mean, similar design, powers, etc.

Yeah I wasn't too fond of koops neither..

Sorta off topic but what is the general consensus on the chance of a sequel (one with an actual story and partners... on a console). Y'all think it's a shoo-in, 50/50, unlikely, etc?

Who knows...

I don't even think no Partners equals a bad Paper Mario, either. I loved Super Paper Mario (although I guess you sort of did have Partners, just without as much personality and character), and for all of Sticker Star's issues, I can't say "no Partners!" is on the top of my list.

I think the next Paper Mario will probably be in the style of Sticker Star, but I'm hoping Miyamoto might loosen up on Intelligent Systems this time around and they'll be able to include good characters again, even if they aren't Partners necessarily. I found a lot of the NPC cast in Super Paper Mario to still be quite entertaining, for instance, whereas Sticker Star failed on that front even.
 

Videoneon

Member
If someone could comment on Paper Mario 64: from a gameplay perspective, I had heard that the mailman Koopa Troopa was the worst partner but I always used him. I never really approached the game in terms of optimizing (loosely, at least) my play when PM64 was first released, but any comments as to why, or if he really was that bad?

Anyway, pretty much all of the TTYD protags are way better from my vantage point as characters, no contest. Goombario is the most by-the-book companion character that could possibly be created, and Goombella is lightyears better as both a character and as a standard, safe, "introductory" partner. The fuck are a Koopa Troopa and a Paratroopa doing in the same game as companions
 
I liked all partners, tbh. Or rather, none of them really bothered me, at least.

I'm crossing my fingers for a TTYD style Paper Mario for Wii U at E3.

That, or Mario Sunshine HD.

Or both.
 

Azure J

Member
How the fuck could Watt ever be the worst partner in PM64 when she gave you stat buffs, could generate field wide paralysis for opponent groups and ignored enemy defenses (critical for the late game when things are packing +2 or +3 defense)?

Lakilester was the one I always remembered never going with after a certain point. Bow and Watt were too damn OP, especially once you learned to abuse stackable jump charges and either Watt's offense buff or Bow's invisibility.

TTYD is a bit tougher though I kinda echo a few sentiments regarding Koops there. Poor guy. Edit: Then again, it's pretty hard to stand out in a party that consists of mostly enemy retreads and Vivian the motherfucking HBIC.

I still wish we got that Chain Chomp partner...
 
How the fuck could Watt ever be the worst partner in PM64 when she gave you stat buffs, could generate field wide paralysis for opponent groups and ignored enemy defenses (critical for the late game when things are packing +2 or +3 defense)?

Yup, fuck the Watt haters. I also agree about Lakilester, personally never really used him.

Choosing a worst partner in TTYD is hard, I guess I'd go with Flurrie but only on account of me liking everybody else more, not because she's bad at all :T
 
When I first played the games when I was younger I never really liked Goombario and Goombella. I always played with the Peekaboo badge, but eventually I learned it became kinda useless if you just tattled on enemies. Plus as I got older I liked being as thorough as I could for games and that included reading every bit of dialogue I could. They're pretty much my main partners now since I like reading what they have to say about different areas and NPCs.

Other favorites are Bow, Lakilester, Koops, Vivian, and Ms. Mowz. Watt I always liked 'cuz her attacks go through enemy defenses like Koopatrols and bosses. Least two favorites are probably Parakarry and lil' Yoshi.
 

DVG

Member
Missing sushi the cheep cheep from the first paper Mario characters there. Not sure if anyone is missing from ttyd but the mouse one I barely remember haha. I agree with watt being the worst though, I never even understood what he was until I read it here. Also his outside of battle technique is barelyyy used in the game and I was never really interested in his paralyzing abilities. I just recently replayed the game and I never knew he cut through defences though. But the partners in ttyd are way more detailed
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I hinge this way more on battle utility over anything else, so Watt was actually my favorite in PM1. She's an absolute MVP when it comes to the actual fights and rarely leaves my side after I obtain her. Ignoring defenses, powerful stat buffs, etc. makes her incredibly effective against Bowser, too.

Gombario was always my least used. Once I got Kooper he got replaced and never touched again just about every playthrough. It felt like you needed to focus on him a lot with the partner upgrades to make him up to snuff. And who wants to use a shit ass goomba? Not I.

TTYD would be Flurrie. Never cared for her moveset or design, and part of that might stem from me being pretty apathetic on chapter 2 as a whole.

I swapped around partners way more frequently in that game so I never had a full mainstay, but my favorite was Vivian.
 
Man, how did you get through the game without using Watt and her amazing ignore defense attack?

Least favorite from the first game is probably Parakarry. Wasn't a fan of him in battle, his gimmick gets overshadowed pretty quickly by your next two partners and he felt more like an interesting NPC than a party member.

Least favorite from TTYD is Madame Flurrie. Once again, her gimmick gets overshadowed by the next two partners and eh, wasn't a big fan of her storyline.
 

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
How is no one picking the mouse from TTYD? I barely remember her.
To be fair, she was completely optional. Though it was a bit of a pain having to do the side-quest to get her since it was backtracking.

TTYD is easily Flurrie. I almost never used her in battle & her design & personality was...eeehhhh. It was always weird seeing the animation of Mario grabbing her.

It's hard to think of the "worst" from 64, I GUESS if I had to choose, Goombario. He just gets overshadowed over everyone else. At least with Goombella, she felt part of the story much later after joining the party. Though maybe that's because in TTYD, I used Tattle on every enemy compared to almost never as a kid playing the 64 one.

At the very least, even the "worst" partners in 64/TTYD left a bigger impact than the ones from Super Paper Mario. There was that butterfly one you got first............um.............some others.............uuhhh......
 

Fandangox

Member
Overall Goombario was the worst for me, gameplay wise he gets overshadowed by everything and personality wise he is just... not there.

Lady Bow and Parcel dude where the best in the original, characterwise, Watt and Parcel Dude were also very useful gameplaywise.

In TTYD I pretty much liked all of them except probably Ms.Mow or whatever her name was. Bobbery, Yoshi and Goombella were the best character wise, they were funny. I think Bobbery was overall my most useful character, although I used Yoshi most of the time.
 

Dunkley

Member
Paper Mario 64: I felt like Kooper was really bland in Paper Mario, I just barely remember anything about him.

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door: I liked the characterization of all party members in The Thousand Year Door, so I would say Ms. Mowz solely due to her having the least character development past the fourth chapter.
 

Vecks

Member
Watt was the least interesting character, so she's the worst in that sense, but I always used her the most at the end because she can penetrate through defense.

Didn't like Madame Flurrie in TTYD.
 

Kinsei

Banned
Paper Mario: Goombario

He was a very bland character and the tattle skill was useless in the first game.

TTYD: Flurrie

Just what? I don't like her design, personality, or abilities.

The best partners are Watt and Vivian.
 
Nothing made me cringe harder than having to switch to Parakarry just so I could use his stupid flight

I hate that goddamn useless piece of shit
 

Woffls

Member
Heh, looks like I'm missing one from TTYD.

In order of usefulness:
Vivian
Bobbery
Yoshi
Koops
Goombella
Flurrie

Koops was my favourite character though cos he was just this depressed ass turtle following Mario around saving the world because sure why not *shrug*

One of my absolute favourite games, and only got around to playing it a few months ago after having it on my shelf for a year.
 
I do agree with OP on Watt not being a Shy Guy.

It took me by surprise too, I was totally expecting a Shy Guy partner (and wanted one), as every other chapter up to that point the main species of that chapter joins you, except Parakarry, but Dry Dry Desert didn't really have a dominant species and a Pokey partner wouldn't really work.

Mario 64 was the only main Mario game I had played before PM, it took me so long to figure out Watt wasn't just made up and was instead based on enemies from a bunch of Mario games. Sparkies look so different in Mario 64, you'd hardly know Watt and them are the same.

Disappointed though that Mario never got a Chain Chomp partner. Seems like it could work as Mario keeping him as a pet dog. When I was a kid, I would always doodle new PM partners for a second game, and a Chain Chomp was always the one I imagined working the best. And it would work the best, along with a Dry Bones.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I do agree with OP on Watt not being a Shy Guy.

It took me by surprise too, I was totally expecting a Shy Guy partner (and wanted one), as every other chapter up to that point the main species of that chapter joins you, except Parakarry, but Dry Dry Desert didn't really have a dominant species and a Pokey partner wouldn't really work.

Mario 64 was the only main Mario game I had played before PM, it took me so long to figure out Watt wasn't just made up and was instead based on enemies from a bunch of Mario games. Sparkies look so different in Mario 64, you'd hardly know Watt and them are the same.

Disappointed though that Mario never got a Chain Chomp partner. Seems like it could work as Mario keeping him as a pet dog. When I was a kid, I would always doodle new PM partners for a second game, and a Chain Chomp was always the one I imagined working the best. And it would work the best, along with a Dry Bones.

Yeah a chain chomp partner would have been amazing. It makes Sticker Star even more painful knowing that there was going to be a chain chomp partner before Miyamoto came in a told them to change things up.
 

PSqueak

Banned
Paper Mario - Watt

I never liked Flurrie. I was alright with everyone else in TTYD.

Watt for Paper Mario 64.

Never.[/I] Everyone else is cool.

Best: Lady Bow and Vivienne

Worst: Lakilester and Flurrie

Watt for 64, and Flurrie for TTYD, both are ok but not the best.

Watt was the least interesting character, so she's the worst in that sense, but I always used her the most at the end because she can penetrate through defense.

Didn't like Madame Flurrie in TTYD.

Heh, looks like I'm missing one from TTYD.

In order of usefulness:
Vivian
Bobbery
Yoshi
Koops
Goombella
Flurrie

What do y'all have against Defense piercieng? that's like the most useful ability in both games, hell Flurrie is INVINCIBLE due to this, her defense piercing move also heals her!

Also, y'all Flurrie haters, i hope you fight a thousand of those Yux bastards, then you'll be begging for madame Flurrie's help!
 
Yeah a chain chomp partner would have been amazing. It makes Sticker Star even more painful knowing that there was going to be a chain chomp partner before Miyamoto came in a told them to change things up.

I really like how Paper Mario portrays Chain Chomps too. The design for them is great, taking the Yoshi's Island look and refining it. I actually think Paper Mario nailed quite a lot of Mario enemy designs (like Fuzzies, which PM basically created the modern look for them that's still used outside of PM), with a couple duds (coughshoelesshammerbro).

And yea, I was super excited to see a new Chain Chomp partner... and then I got the game and it didn't even have partners... but I liked some of the redesigns (like using Kamek instead of Kammy and the updated Dry Bones). It felt weird not having Mousers or Clefts or Bandits or the other random niche/unknown enemies Paper Mario was known for and brought into the light, though.
 
Goombella was great and unique in all ways, plot wise. A Goomba companion? Been done. Girl Goomba? Had that ever been really explored? And she's studious? Brilliant!

And come on, that pith helmet and scarf with the ponytail. Its cute and unique as all hell.
 

ffdgh

Member
Hating on flurry and koops? What is this madness?!
Gale force is such a convience vs cortez and the pit of 100 trials. Koops has an auto 1+ defense and he can give mario a shield. What's not to love?

That aside, I love all of the partners in ttyd. Firey jinx definetly broke some battles lol.
 

Roto13

Member
I can think of situations where every partner was useful, except for Parakarry. Was there a single enemy it was best to use him for?

Watt could penetrate enemy defenses so her attacks always did full damage. That was incredibly useful against specific enemies, especially in the late game. She's one of the most useful, not the least.

The best is obviously Bobbery though.
 
Missing sushi the cheep cheep from the first paper Mario characters there. Not sure if anyone is missing from ttyd but the mouse one I barely remember haha. I agree with watt being the worst though, I never even understood what he was until I read it here. Also his outside of battle technique is barelyyy used in the game and I was never really interested in his paralyzing abilities. I just recently replayed the game and I never knew he cut through defences though. But the partners in ttyd are way more detailed

I'm surprised it took that long for someone to notice. Says a lot of what people think about her.
 
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