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Whose talent goes to waste more? Camelot or Retro?

Loofy said:
Retro I kind of felt sorry for, wern't there rumors that moral was down cause Nintendo made them the Metroid team for 5 years.. or did I make that up?

I wonder how Ravenblade would have turned out.
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Made it up, or at least I've never heard of it.

Nintendo tried letting them do their own thing for a while, and as a result, they were making several games... Raven Blade, a football game, a car combat game, etc. but they all turned out to be shit prototypes.

So Nintendo canned all the projects and had them work on Metroid instead and took a more hands-on role. Result: Metroid Prime.
 
Not everyone can make a good Mario sport game, see Mario Basketball. The other non Camelot games like Mario Baseball are simply not as good. However Camelot may have lost their touch if the last Golden Sun is anything to go by.
 
I vote Rare.

The last Golden Sun was not that impressive. Not sure how much talent is really being wasted with whatever they're doing that isn't making a good Golden Sun sequel.
 
Had Retro made games with middling to terrible sales like Monolith Soft (and most importantly been Japanese like Monolith), they would have been given tens of millions of dollars to expand and make a new big budget IP that will likely follow the same fate as their previous games.
 
camelot makes worse games, but that's not because they have talent being wasted on bad genres. they just lack talent. but the idea that a sports game or a platformer is a waste of talent is pretty laughable, like one genre is inherently better or worse than the other.

okay i'll walk that one back a bit. the platforming genre is inherently the best in gaming, so i guess that means camelot's talents are going to waste more by virtue of not making platformers.
 
Hero of Legend said:
I'm going to call false on this; I looked up Dark Dawn and the earlier GS games on MobyGames, and all the key players came back, hell I can't think of one person from the earlier games that DIDN'T!

It could be some kind of adjustment issue, also not everyone's perfect, the Takahashi brothers probably had some off ideas.

Mario Golf looks like a true return to form, hell We Love Golf looks like it has true Camelot inside it, it's just the odd controls for me that kept me from adoring it... or even getting far in it. XD Traditional controls would've been a godsend. I'm just so used to Toadstool Tour's controls.
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I'm always willing to give Camelot more chances, and I'm paying attention to Golf.

And I didn't mean that a bunch of people ran away before their DS transition. I just meant that they must have had fewer resources or team arrangement or just rust from not making a game so expansive in awhile. Even if the people are the same, they need inspiration and quality work processes to do good work.

Morrigan Targaryen said:
On another note, I remember very briefly playing the first Golden Sun game when it came out on the GBA a long time ago, not really getting into it, and dismissing it. Perhaps I should give them an another chance? I find modern jRPGs to be generally terrible, the last good jRPG to me was Suikoden 5 so perhaps I need some of that classic jRPG feel back to like them again...
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It's definitely classic-feeling and fun, but it's often straightforward. You might just want to play their earlier games.
 
Camelot. Golden Sun: the Lost Age is Ninty's best RPG to date. And lol at making DKC games being "wasted".

And reading Intelligent Systems in this thread is hilarious and bizarre
 
Camelot isn't the same as back then. And I don't think Retro's talent goes to waste. I wanted a Metroid more but DKCR2 was better for them. And it's certainly not a bad game, probably the opposite.
 
Retro I flat out disagree with. Even when they did the returning tracks for Mario Kart 7, that would've only involved the development grunt-work side of Retro, rather than the people involved for likes of the level design, art style and music, which are the areas where Retro's previous games were most well received.

With Camelot, I can see where you are coming from, but I would still end up not agreeing with you. While I far preferred even the DS Golden Sun game to their Mario Sports titles, I'm probably in the minority, and I can understand Camelot and/or Nintendo's (whoever decisions it is) actions regarding the games they are making.



NST would've been a far better Nintendo studio to mention in the op. Although I've never been a huge fan of their games, becoming the Mario vs DK and various apps (iirc they did BBC iplayer, clocks, VC N64 emulator, etc) developer is a little disappointing to say the least.
 
I'm a little annoyed that we waited all this time to see Retro's next game be DKC again (not that I don't expect a great game), but moreso that their next game will probably not be released until 2016. Wii U will be totally dead and buried by then.
 
I think both are fine.

Regardless of the shortcomings Dark Dawn had, Golden Sun remains my favorite RPG series.

I would like a new Shining Force by Camelot though. But Sega gonna Sega and keep the Shining series the way they have it now. Which I'll keep my opinions of that to myself.

Retro is fine. I love Donkey Kong and Tropical Freeze looks awesome. NeoGAF just overhyped itself into thinking it had to be StarTropics or it had to be Metroid and ended up disappointing themselves. Hence the hate.
 
I'm not sure Camelot is still as talented as they once were. I'd rather see them making RPGs than Mario spinoffs though.

DK is not what I wanted to see out of Retro (same applies to DKCR) but no doubt it will be a very good game and I wouldn't say their talent is being wasted on it.

So I guess Camelot, but it seems like an odd question with these two developers in particular.
 
A waste of talent on Retro's part would have been asking of them to do another Metroid despite them borderline perfecting that formula three times rather than them working on a sequel to a game that they legitimately wanted to make and that they are seemingly turning into one of the best looking Wii U games.

I would say Camelot but I actually like their sports games so I don't think anyone is being wasted here.
 
I love how Retro CHOOSING to make Donkey Kong over Metroid Prime is equated to Nintendo "wasting their talent."
 
Oh man, I would be there day one if Camelot released a new Shining game. Those games were and still are my favs and Sega just hasn't been able to capture that magic.
 
The idea that Retro's talent is somehow wasted on a 2D platformer is one of the reasons why Sony hasn't been able to touch Nintendo in the handheld market.

Nintendo puts their best teams to work on smaller projects and projects that many publishers / platform holders would give to lesser studios. That's why 3DS owners got an incredible Fire Emblem game (as well as two great eShop titles from the same studio) while Vita owners got a second-rate Uncharted.
 
The fact Camelot never made a SRPG since they left sega has been depressing. Even when they said they'd love to do a new shining force and sega said they'd like them to do it, nothing happened
 
People forget that Retro chose to do another DK because they had more they wanted to do with the franchise. Nintendo gave them the option of what to work on next.
 
Plinko said:
I love how Retro CHOOSING to make Donkey Kong over Metroid Prime is equated to Nintendo "wasting their talent."
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I love how you buy their PR responses. The guys really wanted to create another DK game, that's why they have such a high turnover rate when it comes to leads.

Edit: Maybe you are right though.
Iwata: You have free choice for your next game. You want to create a sequel to DKCR or a sequel to Wii Music?
Retro: Umm.
 
Why do people complain about retro doing another donkey kong when people are so fine with Ubisoft Montepellier doing another Rayman game over another Beyond Good and Evil or...anything else. At least devloping another DKC makes financial sense since those games actually sell but all the Rayman games have been total bombas and aren't even that much better than retro's dkc series
 
Zuhzuhzombie!! said:
Say what you will about 64, Donkey Konga, Jungle Beat, and Barrel Blast, they may have been good but they were no Donkey Kong Country. Returns was such a good game for Nintendo that Rare is working on a new title called Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze While not working on Donkey Kong, Retro has had their paws on Mario Kart as well.
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Thought I'd point that out lol.

Anyway, I wouldn't go as far to say that their talents are being wasted.
 
chertipros said:
Why do people complain about retro doing another donkey kong when people are so fine with Ubisoft Montepellier doing another Rayman game over another Beyond Good and Evil or...anything else. At least devloping another DKC makes financial sense since those games actually sell but all the Rayman games have been total bombas and aren't even that much better than retro's dkc series
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How many people feel that way? Beyond Good and Evil 2 seems like one of the most wanted games on GAF.
 
Wasted talent my ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVex4peW-YU

Making a 2D platformer that holds it's own against all time classics such as Super Mario Bros 3/World, Yoshi's Island, Sonic 2/3 & Knuckles and Donkey Kong Country 2 is wasted talent?

Some of you guys don't know shit about what it takes to make a 2D platformer.
 
chaosblade said:
How many people feel that way? Beyond Good and Evil 2 seems like one of the most wanted games on GAF.
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Its anticipated but try finding one Rayman thread with someone saying "omg the talent is being so wasted, 2d platformers are so easy to make why don't they just devote all their manpower to something else and let a small team of interns develop it"
 
There problem here isn´t really what these studios develop but Nintendos moronic decision to not expand them so that they can work on multiple games at the same time.
 
After seeing how Golden Sun DS and Mario Tennis 3D turned out, I'm inclined to say that there is no talent left at Camelot.
 
Shiggy said:
I love how you buy their PR responses. The guys really wanted to create another DK game, that's why they have such a high turnover rate when it comes to leads.

Retro: Umm.
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We don't really know for sure, but measuring this by turnover rate would suggest they didn't want to make sequels to Metroid Prime either.
 
I don't know why people were fine with Retro making three Metroid Prime games but apparently making more than one Donkey Kong game is unthinkable. No one's talent is being wasted, Tropical Freeze will be just as good if not better than the excellent first one.
 
AOC83 said:
There problem here isn´t really what these studios develop but Nintendos moronic decision to not expand them so that they can work on multiple games at the same time.
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Camelot is an independent studio unrelated to Nintendo.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
We don't really know for sure, but measuring this by turnover rate would suggest they didn't want to make sequels to Metroid Prime either.
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Didn't the MP leads all stay until the 2008 incident happened after which Retro was put on DKCR?

Anyway, I don't think Retro's talent is wasted on DKCR. Considering how long it took them to create a DKCR sequel and then seeing the graphics in the 3D sections in DKCR2 and the minimal upgrade over DKCR, it seems as if the team better keeps on doing 2D platformers. Of course, for the Wii U lineup a 3D game might have been more benefitial as it would have brought more diversity.
 
Tripon said:
Camelot and Nintendo doesn't own that IP, Sega does.
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That's why I said it's so unlikely. I would assume there's no reason Sega theoretically couldn't be all like, "Oh hey, Fire Emblem apparently did really well on the 3DS..." and put them on the job if that were to happen, but Sega is too Sega nowadays for that.
 
Well since I don't really think the Prime series were any good and disliking Retro for making Metroid 3D (I will take a 2D Metroid over 3D any day of the week), I'll say Camelot.
 
I don't think Retro are wasted at all, and for the same reason I'm not complaining that Sucker Punch are working on their third Infamous, they did a great job on the one before.

Loofy said:
Retro I kind of felt sorry for, were'nt there rumors that moral was down cause Nintendo made them the Metroid team for 5+ years.. or did I make that up?

I wonder how Ravenblade would have turned out.
Click to expand...

I think some were disappointed that the Zelda-spinoff they proposed got shot down, and that led to the formation of Armature. But some of the old MP team left right after the original.
And I doubt Ravenblade was going to be good, there was a reason all but one of their projects got canned.

Shiggy said:
I love how you buy their PR responses. The guys really wanted to create another DK game, that's why they have such a high turnover rate when it comes to leads.
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The turnovers happened before DKCR. The only one that left after it was an artist if I'm not mistaken.
 
Shiggy said:
Didn't the MP leads all stay until the 2008 incident happened after which Retro was put on DKCR?

Anyway, I don't think Retro's talent is wasted on DKCR. Considering how long it took them to create a DKCR sequel and then seeing the graphics in the 3D sections in DKCR2 and the minimal upgrade over DKCR, it seems as if the team better keeps on doing 2D platformers. Of course, for the Wii U lineup a 3D game might have been more benefitial as it would have brought more diversity.
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Not all, but most. They lost a senior artist and a lead engineer after MP1, and an audio lead after Echoes. But they did lose about 35% of their total staff after the first game alone.

Also, it's entirely possible that they have barely been at work on this for two years (NSMBU took three years and if Good Feel has been working on Yarn Yoshi all this time that's been in the oven 3+ already). The majority of their staff is credited on MK7 and the Iwata Asks suggests they did a lot more than just creating the Retro courses. Plus they put resources assisting Monster with the 3DS port.
 
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