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"Why America is Moving Left" - The Atlantic

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It soon became shorthand for those white Americans who, shaken by crime and appalled by radicalism, turned against the Democratic Party in the ’60s and ’70s. For Americans with an ear for historical parallels, the return of that era’s phrases and images suggests that a powerful conservative backlash is headed our way.


At least, that was my thesis when I set out to write this essay. I came of age in the ’80s and ’90s, when the backlash against ’60s liberalism still struck terror into Democratic hearts. I watched as Ronald Reagan moved the country hard to the right, and as Bill Clinton made his peace with this new political reality by assuring white America that his party would fight crime mercilessly. Seeing this year’s Democratic candidates crumple before Black Lives Matter and shed Clinton’s ideological caution as they stampeded to the left, I imagined the country must be preparing for a vast conservative reaction.

But I was wrong. The more I examined the evidence, the more I realized that the current moment looks like a mirror image of the late ’60s and early ’70s. The resemblances are clear, but their political significance has been turned upside down. There is a backlash against the liberalism of the Obama era. But it is louder than it is strong. Instead of turning right, the country as a whole is still moving to the left.

...

Centrist Democrats believed that Reagan, for all his faults, had gotten some big things right. The Soviet Union had been evil. Taxes had been too high. Excessive regulation had squelched economic growth. The courts had been too permissive of crime. Until Democrats acknowledged these things, the centrists believed, they would neither win the presidency nor deserve to. In the late 1980s and the 1990s, an influential community of Democratic-aligned politicians, strategists, journalists, and wonks believed that critiquing liberalism from the right was morally and politically necessary.

George W. Bush wiped this community out. Partly, he did so by rooting the GOP more firmly in the South—Reagan’s political base had been in the West—aiding the slow-motion extinction of white southern Democrats that had begun when the party embraced civil rights. But Bush also destroyed centrist Democrats intellectually, by making it impossible for them to credibly critique liberalism from the right.

In the late 1980s and the 1990s, centrist Democrats had argued that Reagan’s decisions to cut the top income-tax rate from 70 percent to 50 percent and to loosen government regulation had spurred economic growth. When Bush cut the top rate to 35 percent in 2001 and further weakened regulation, however, inequality and the deficit grew, but the economy barely did—and then the financial system crashed. In the late ’80s and the ’90s, centrist Democrats had also argued that Reagan’s decision to boost defense spending and aid the Afghan mujahideen had helped topple the Soviet empire. But in 2003, when Bush invaded Iraq, he sparked the greatest foreign-policy catastrophe since Vietnam.

...

By the time Barack Obama defeated Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008, in part because of her support for the Iraq War, the mood inside the party had fundamentally changed. Whereas the party’s most respected thinkers had once urged Democrats to critique liberal orthodoxy, they now criticized Democrats for not defending that orthodoxy fiercely enough. The presidency of George W. Bush had made Democrats unapologetically liberal, and the presidency of Barack Obama was the most tangible result.

...

But that’s only half the story. Because if George W. Bush’s failures pushed the Democratic Party to the left, Barack Obama’s have pushed it even further. If Bush was responsible for the liberal infrastructure that helped elect Obama, Obama has now inadvertently contributed to the creation of two movements—Occupy and Black Lives Matter—dedicated to the proposition that even the liberalism he espouses is not left-wing enough.

...

When academics from the City University of New York went to Zuccotti Park to study the people who had taken it over, they found something striking: 40 percent of the Occupy activists had worked on the 2008 presidential campaign, mostly for Obama. Many of them had hoped that, as president, he would bring fundamental change. Now the collapse of that hope had led them to challenge Wall Street directly. “Disenchantment with Obama was a driver of the Occupy movement for many of the young people who participated,” noted the CUNY researchers. In his book on the movement, Occupy Nation, the Columbia University sociologist Todd Gitlin quotes Jeremy Varon, a close observer of Occupy who teaches at the New School for Social Research, as saying, “This is the Obama generation declaring their independence from his administration. We thought his voice was ours. Now we know we have to speak for ourselves.”

...

This is even true among Republican Millennials. The press often depicts American politics as a battle pitting ever more liberal Democrats against ever more conservative Republicans. Among the young, however, that’s inaccurate. Young Democrats may be more liberal than their elders, but so are young Republicans. According to Pew, a clear majority of young Republicans say immigrants strengthen America, half say corporate profits are too high, and almost half say stricter environmental laws are worth the cost—answers that sharply distinguish them from older members of the GOP. Young Republicans are more likely to favor legalizing marijuana than the oldest Democrats, and almost as likely to support gay marriage. Asked how they categorize themselves ideologically, more than two-thirds of Republican Millennials call themselves either “liberal” or “mixed,” while fewer than one-third call themselves “conservative.” Among the oldest Republicans, that breakdown is almost exactly reversed.

More at link.

This (to me at least) is great to see. However there are some things that worry me in the article, specifically how there is little to no change in the public's opiinion of the size of government and other factors. Makes me think the American left isn't out of the woods yet.
 

Mortemis

Banned
I was reading this article last night, and it's a good read. Makes some good points on how Sanders and movements like BLM are shaping up this election.
 

Effnine

Member
I want to believe that eventually truth, common sense and the common good will all win in the end ... something the Right seems to want to always fight against ...
 

Acorn

Member
Still gonna be further right than most of the western world. Minus here with our tory overlords taking the country way to the right.
 
I was reading this article last night, and it's a good read. Makes some good points on how Sanders and movements like BLM are shaping up this election.

Really? I thought Donald Trump and GOP were shaping this election up to now. See the low low low ratings for DNC debates and high high high ratings for GOP debates. See the coverage for Trump and others. Jeb Bush gets more coverage than Sanders and BLM and he is at 3%
 
Young optimistic liberals always seem to think that the President is some magic fairy man who can change everything overnight.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Really? I thought Donald Trump and GOP were shaping this election up to now. See the low low low ratings for DNC debates and high high high ratings for GOP debates. See the coverage for Trump and others. Jeb Bush gets more coverage than Sanders and BLM and he is at 3%

That's more a function of the fact that the Republicans say crazy stuff that the press like writing about, and at this point the Democratic side is still treated as something of a lockup for Hillary to lose. The media loves horse races, and that's only to be found on the Republican side of things.


I'd say that the low Democratic debate numbers are a suggestion that the public at large sort of either follows the media on this one, or is just of a similar mind. There's a popcorn entertainment value to the Republican debates that isn't there when Bernie and Hillary politely disagree with each other.

As to the article, agreed with it in some points, disagreed with it in others, but a lot of the evidence for the claims are based in late 1980s/early 1990s politics, which is not my forte, so I can't really refute it.
 

Ogodei

Member
The move left is mostly because of demography. The followers of the Southern Strategy built the Reagan dynasty on the backs of white resentment, which worked well and continues to work well in elections where non-whites don't vote as much (e.g., almost everything without a President on the ballot, with some exceptions), but in doing so they've doubled down, time and again, on ideas and concepts that have a hard expiration date.

It is true that Americans are still distrustful of big government and that we have a phobia of taxes, even of taxes that will never effect us. The GOP should still have a natural advantage, but they keep wasting it by harboring and/or encouraging racism, war-hawking, general bigotry, anti-intellectualism, and homophobia.

This is the blessing or the curse of the tea party. The GOP could easily move away from their more untenable positions and gain ground with religious, socially conservative black Americans and hispanic Americans, but they've stoked the racist base into such a frenzy in order to score points against Obama, that now they're stuck with them.
 

Dicktatorship

Junior Member
I can't remember who said it, but when they were talking about Bernie Sander's 'Revolution' they mentioned that there was a polar opposite revolution going on in congress.

It seems as though both Left and Right are going further in their respective directions, and taking their 40-45% (each) base with them. I can only see violent partisanship increasing in the future until an awful climax that resets it.
 

Mortemis

Banned
Really? I thought Donald Trump and GOP were shaping this election up to now. See the low low low ratings for DNC debates and high high high ratings for GOP debates. See the coverage for Trump and others. Jeb Bush gets more coverage than Sanders and BLM and he is at 3%

My bad, meant the democratic primaries, as they and other leftward changes in the US have changed talking points and some of Clinton's stances.
 

Ogodei

Member
I can't remember who said it, but when they were talking about Bernie Sander's 'Revolution' they mentioned that there was a polar opposite revolution going on in congress.

It seems as though both Left and Right are going further in their respective directions, and taking their 40-45% (each) base with them. I can only see violent partisanship increasing in the future until an awful climax that resets it.

It's all based on gerrymandering, though. GOP strength would crumble overnight if, say, proportional representation was used to determine who was sent to congress from each state.
 
Really? I thought Donald Trump and GOP were shaping this election up to now. See the low low low ratings for DNC debates and high high high ratings for GOP debates. See the coverage for Trump and others. Jeb Bush gets more coverage than Sanders and BLM and he is at 3%


They're certainly "shaping" it and we love them for that. All of this trump shit won't matter in about half a year...i hope.
 

kirblar

Member
Having a generation grow up under G.W.Bush while the internet emerged created massive moves toward social liberalization.

The danger now with the Dems/left side in the US is falling into the trap of the '60/'70s that the GOP is currently dealing with- you can't let the far flank take over, or you just lose all the elections.
 
All of Europe is moving right, so....

Europe seems to be very mixed. There are some countries that are undoubtedly moving to the right, such as the United Kingdom. However, you also have countries like Greece and to a lesser extent Spain. The majority seem to be a battleground. The only thing right wing that is growing in Europe is anti-immigration.

It's all based on gerrymandering, though. GOP strength would crumble overnight if, say, proportional representation was used to determine who was sent to congress from each state.

This is false. De-gerrymandering districts would only gain the Democrats a couple of seats. The problems go far beyond gerrymandering.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Really? I thought Donald Trump and GOP were shaping this election up to now. See the low low low ratings for DNC debates and high high high ratings for GOP debates. See the coverage for Trump and others. Jeb Bush gets more coverage than Sanders and BLM and he is at 3%

Just because Trump is attracting eyeballs towards the GOP race doesn't mean all of those eyeballs are thinking in his direction. The Republican primary is way, way more contentious and "entertaining" to watch than the Democratic primary. That's why the GOP debates are high in ratings and the DNC debates are low in ratings. People are tuning into that circus just to watch the GOP explode.

This is still Hillary's election to lose.
 

Crosseyes

Banned
I can't remember who said it, but when they were talking about Bernie Sander's 'Revolution' they mentioned that there was a polar opposite revolution going on in congress.

It seems as though both Left and Right are going further in their respective directions, and taking their 40-45% (each) base with them. I can only see violent partisanship increasing in the future until an awful climax that resets it.
Im kinda feeling the same way. Both parties are moving to their idealogical ends, me included for the left side. While republican leaders have started to advocate the suppression and 'roughing up' of black lives matter protestors Ive always felt the most sympathy towards those rioting and revolting against the police that have oppressed them for so long. For many places where oppression is the worst each cop harmed in a riot is more punishment than the law will ever dish out to them.

Perhaps things will calm as one group is further marginalized, perhaps the demographics of the evolving country will push the tea party and trump supporting republicans out of the picture but while Trump calls for the steps leading toward facism I feel like violent government action is going to be the only way to curb things like gun owners in the future. Divisive times. When so many people are upset the best thing to unite is a common enemy to hate. And i fear that somewhere in the middle east that solution may arise...
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Frankly the GOP is just fueling this.

They have held onto the mantra of Reagan and the southern strategy to their long term detriment.

They had a chance in 08 to really take a hard look and begin a slow process of modernizing their party and at every chance they have they just doubled down on the long term losing strategy.
 
Now if only dipshit Dems would vote in midterms

Now if only liberals would turn out and vote in mid-term elections.

They can't because of gerrymandering! Don't you see? Once 2024 arrives after Democrats have had the White House for 16 straight years THEN things will change as they redraw the lines and hordes of Democratic voters will come forth to vote. All this talk about motivating voters is nothing but "revolution" nonsense and is completely unrealistic and dangerous as it can scare voters away from the party. Better not shake the boat too much.

I can't remember who said it, but when they were talking about Bernie Sander's 'Revolution' they mentioned that there was a polar opposite revolution going on in congress.

It seems as though both Left and Right are going further in their respective directions, and taking their 40-45% (each) base with them. I can only see violent partisanship increasing in the future until an awful climax that resets it.

The right's rightward march is only happening with the middle aged and older. The opposite is happening to younger Republicans.
 
Because America continues to br made up of poor and working class folk, but because of demographic shifts, competing ideological concerns like racism and fundamentalist Christianity do not cause them to vote for social or economic conservatism anymore.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
America moving left is irrelevant as long as the definition of 'left' is still a very moderate republican in the eyes of the mainstream.

Hillary can get billions of dollars of support from corporate entities, chest thump attacking the Syrian rebels and the Syrian government at the same time, dismiss any form of public good such as universal health care and tuition free public education as "costing too much"(which is not the case and would actually save far more money than the current system), and yet gets majority support with a fancy suit and slimy disposition just because she's the popular name and is 'electable'(which is also in doubt at this point)

That's still the America i know, and has nothing to do with finding common sense. Bernie is still loosing significantly after all, even though he's trying to fight.

That's why many citizens are disenfranchised about this whole thing. The enthusiasm is just nowhere to be seen, and it will always be like this, unless something big happens.
 

wildfire

Banned
Damn I'm impressed to see Beinart still hasn't lost his touch. I was scoffing at the idea at the Republicans shifting leftward (aside from their stance on same gender sexuality) but he has convinced me again on things I've taken for granted.
 

damisa

Member
America moving left is irrelevant as long as the definition of 'left' is still a very moderate republican in the eyes of the mainstream.

Hillary can get billions of dollars of support from corporate entities, chest thump attacking the Syrian rebels and the Syrian government at the same time, dismiss any form of public good such as universal health care and tuition free public education as "costing too much"(which is not the case and would actually save far more money than the current system), and yet gets majority support with a fancy suit and slimy disposition just because she's the popular name and is 'electable'(which is also in doubt at this point)

That's still the America i know, and has nothing to do with finding common sense. Bernie is still loosing significantly after all, even though he's trying to fight.

That's why many citizens are disenfranchised about this whole thing. The enthusiasm is just nowhere to be seen, and it will always be like this, unless something big happens.

There's nothing wrong with supporting both businesses and workers. I don't understand why Bernie and his supporters keep demonizing businesses and "Wall Street".

Fighting both Assad and ISIS is obviously a massively superior strategy to Bernie's position of "work with Saudi Arabia to fight only ISIS first" There is no chance Sunni countries would agree to help Assad win the war if he was off the table. It stinks of a complete lack of foreign relations understanding.

Universal health care and tuition free public education would require increased taxes. Don't get me wrong, it's probably worth the extra taxes, but I don't think most of America would agree. You can't use other countries costs by the way, doctor salaries and drug costs are much lower in other countries, and nationalization by itself doesn't fix this.

Bernie is getting crushed because most of the country doesn't really believe in anything he's saying
"Sanders continues to trail Clinton as the candidate better able to handle economic issues, 47% say they think Clinton is best able to handle it, 39% Sanders.

The former secretary of state has even larger leads on foreign policy matters and ISIS, however, topping Sanders 72% to 15% on foreign policy, 63% to 18% on ISIS. Clinton also holds a 21-point advantage over Sanders on handling gun policy, 51% prefer Clinton vs. 30% Sanders. " http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/23/politics/cnn-orc-poll-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/

Maybe he should expand his positions beyond just demonizing Wall Street and whining about millionaires and billionaires
 

Lkr

Member
America moving left is irrelevant as long as the definition of 'left' is still a very moderate republican in the eyes of the mainstream.

Hillary can get billions of dollars of support from corporate entities, chest thump attacking the Syrian rebels and the Syrian government at the same time, dismiss any form of public good such as universal health care and tuition free public education as "costing too much"(which is not the case and would actually save far more money than the current system), and yet gets majority support with a fancy suit and slimy disposition just because she's the popular name and is 'electable'(which is also in doubt at this point)

That's still the America i know, and has nothing to do with finding common sense. Bernie is still loosing significantly after all, even though he's trying to fight.

That's why many citizens are disenfranchised about this whole thing. The enthusiasm is just nowhere to be seen, and it will always be like this, unless something big happens.

Hillary has got to the point now where a good amount of Dems don't support her, but would rather see her get elected over Trump/Jeb/Rubio/whoever. One of my friends joked the other day that he would rather vote for Rand Paul over Hillary if by some crazy turn Rand became a popular candidate, simply because Rand has many anti-war stances. Hillary lost to Obama in 08 for a reason, and many Obama supporters, myself included, believe he gave too much leeway to Wall Street and didn't do enough to stay out of the middle east, as described in this article. The primaries will definitely be interesting if the people that no one expects to vote, like myself, actually turn up
 

draetenth

Member
Really? I thought Donald Trump and GOP were shaping this election up to now. See the low low low ratings for DNC debates and high high high ratings for GOP debates. See the coverage for Trump and others. Jeb Bush gets more coverage than Sanders and BLM and he is at 3%

People expect Hillary to win so the Democratic debates are boring (plus, they are at horrible times and usually have something else going on at the same time, iirc the next one is going to happen at the same time as an NFL playoff game...).

On the flip side, the GOP debates are like a giant flaming wreck that people can't help, but watch. I think a lot of Democrats are watching just for the amusement factor alone.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
There's nothing wrong with supporting both businesses and workers. I don't understand why Bernie and his supporters keep demonizing businesses and "Wall Street".

Smaller businesses are fine. They are completely separate from huge multinational corporate entities who control how everything is run according to their own profit and power motive usually at the detriment of the worker and consumer alike. Like energy, like the media, like healthcare, like war profiteering.

Don't act like this garbage "job creators" nonsense makes any sense, its indefensible. Democrats should not act like conservative corporate shills with some lame ass "corporations are just well meaning business partners!"

Most social justice starts to begin with railing against "business" treating their underlings like shit.

Fighting both Assad and ISIS is obviously a massively superior strategy to Bernie's position of "work with Saudi Arabia to fight only ISIS first" There is no chance Sunni countries would agree to help Assad win the war if he was off the table. It stinks of a complete lack of foreign relations understanding.

And your and Hillary's solution is apparently to simply create another Iraq where we fight two sides and get them to gang up on us, hence creating another quagmire that we self injected ourselves in and a recipe for further destabilization. Great plan.

If we're fighting ISIS, we take out ISIS and leave the chips how they fall. I don't want to hear any terrible defense of Bush's strategy coming from someone who calls themselves a smart thinker, much less someone who voted for both the Iraq war and the Patriot act. Hawks make me sick. Especially people no better than Cheney.

Universal health care and tuition free public education would require increased taxes. Don't get me wrong, it's probably worth the extra taxes, but I don't think most of America would agree. You can't use other countries costs by the way, doctor salaries and drug costs are much lower in other countries, and nationalization by itself doesn't fix this.

We've already done studies on the impact of universal healthcare. The increase of taxes is offset completely by the services and impact of the free nature of everything else. Your paying slightly more taxes without having to break your wallet paying for insurance like you are now. That's money back in the hands of the people.

And drug prices are fixed in America, that's a fact. Why are drugs lower in other countries? Because in America, Big Pharma can get away with charging whatever they want. That's not a 'fiscal reality' that's a gaming of the system that needs to be fixed in of itself.

Bernie is getting crushed because most of the country doesn't really believe in anything he's saying

Even you have to understand that such an argument is completely ridiculous.

"We don't believe in public healthcare or right to paid family in medical leave or reining i in wallstreet abuses and speculation! Hurray more corporate power and corporate solvency!"

Hillary Clinton is winning nationally because she's a better known face, and easily marketable by those forces who see her as the one who will do their bidding. I'm pretty sure Bernie taking in 37% when he was not even known nationally a year ago, with Hillary at 50% with 20 years of public grand standing is a statement in of itself.

This is inspite of having been on the board of directors for Wallmart, having a husband largely responsible for deregulating financial excess in the financial sector, having a daughter who is married to a Goldeman sachs hedge-fund manager, who also had a father who was arrested and charged for 31 counts of financial fraud and abuse.

Yeah, but everything is just fine. I think that speaks more to the ignorance of the greater public than anything about social liberalism being more palatable than it was 10 years ago.

[/QUOTE]
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Hillary has got to the point now where a good amount of Dems don't support her, but would rather see her get elected over Trump/Jeb/Rubio/whoever. One of my friends joked the other day that he would rather vote for Rand Paul over Hillary if by some crazy turn Rand became a popular candidate, simply because Rand has many anti-war stances. Hillary lost to Obama in 08 for a reason, and many Obama supporters, myself included, believe he gave too much leeway to Wall Street and didn't do enough to stay out of the middle east, as described in this article. The primaries will definitely be interesting if the people that no one expects to vote, like myself, actually turn up

Which doesn't make any sense, because according to those polls now, Hillary actually is very close to Trump percentage wise, and Bernie beats him and every other GOP candidate by a higher margin than she does.

According to the hill

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...blockbuster-poll-sanders-destroys-trump-by-13

So her being more electable and having a better shot at beating the GOP is also wrong
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Nice to hope for, but the vast, vast majority of the country is red when you look at a local government party map.
 
Which doesn't make any sense, because according to those polls now, Hillary actually is very close to Trump percentage wise, and Bernie beats him and every other GOP candidate by a higher margin than she does.

According to the hill

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...blockbuster-poll-sanders-destroys-trump-by-13

So her being more electable and having a better shot at beating the GOP is also wrong

Polls, at this point, are incredibly misleading. Support for Hillary is not likely to change between now and next fall, because she's such a known quantity, whereas Bernie still has that "new candidate smell" but will fall precipitously because he's too liberal for the great mass of centrists that Democrats have to court in order to get anywhere. He'll get hammered for being a socialist, hammered for being too far left in his rhetoric, hammered for "pie in the sky" idealism, etc. He's not an exciting, charismatic candidate in the way Obama was, and he doesn't have the brilliant campaign infrastructure and smart strategizing that propelled Obama above Hillary 8 years ago. He doesn't have as much name recognition or appeal among people of color, hasn't been putting in the work to give interviews on Spanish-language television like Hillary has, hasn't done anything to try to gain any credible governing experience, etc. He's also not as comfortable in front of a camera, and while a more substantive thinker, is worse at the intangible aspects of debating and would likely look quite weak against a Trump or a Rubio, whereas Hillary, whatever her faults, has shown an ability to stand up to pressure that is admirable. I like Bernie quite a bit more than Hillary and would eagerly vote for him, but the enthusiasm and knowledge gap will hit him harder than it hit Hillary, easily. Bernie would be the modern McGovern, more than likely.
 

antonz

Member
I really don't think the country has shifted so much as the Republicans have let themselves become so radicalized. Elements within have been saying for some time the southern strategy needed to die and they needed to correct course. Instead we see a 2016 Election where the absolute crazies are doubling down on the southern strategy and just going bonkers.

The people who would be tempted to vote to the right are being completely turned off by the option the right is presenting them.
 

damisa

Member
Smaller businesses are fine. They are completely separate from huge multinational corporate entities who control how everything is run according to their own profit and power motive usually at the detriment of the worker and consumer alike. Like energy, like the media, like healthcare, like war profiteering.

Don't act like this garbage "job creators" nonsense makes any sense, its indefensible. Democrats should not act like conservative corporate shills with some lame ass "corporations are just well meaning business partners!"

Most social justice starts to begin with railing against "business" treating their underlings like shit.

All I see is more demonizing from Bernie Sanders supporters against businesses. Don't give me that lame small business excuse. Big corporations like Microsoft, Apple, and even Walmart create massive amounts of employment and help America be better off.
Yes big companies like to make profits, oh the horror, but so do small companies.

We were fighting only one enemy in Iraq, Islamic extremists made up of former Saddam military and angry Sunnis.
"we take out ISIS and leave the chips how they fall. " Do you mean we as in the US alone? That's not even what Bernie is naively suggesting, that's even worse.

The "better known" excuse doesn't make sense to me, but if you believe it, than it's Bernie's own fault after months of campaigning that he's not more well known.

She's worked for a corporation and had family members that worked for a bank? wow that should be illegal. Good reason not to support a candidate
 
Really? I thought Donald Trump and GOP were shaping this election up to now. See the low low low ratings for DNC debates and high high high ratings for GOP debates. See the coverage for Trump and others. Jeb Bush gets more coverage than Sanders and BLM and he is at 3%

I'm going to vote Democrat and I've been paying way more attention to the Republican debates than the Democrat ones. It's like a political sideshow.
 
Peter Beinart said:
In the late 1980s and the 1990s, centrist Democrats had argued that Reagan’s decisions to cut the top income-tax rate from 70 percent to 50 percent and to loosen government regulation had spurred economic growth. When Bush cut the top rate to 35 percent in 2001 and further weakened regulation, however, inequality and the deficit grew, but the economy barely did—and then the financial system crashed. In the late ’80s and the ’90s, centrist Democrats had also argued that Reagan’s decision to boost defense spending and aid the Afghan mujahideen had helped topple the Soviet empire. But in 2003, when Bush invaded Iraq, he sparked the greatest foreign-policy catastrophe since Vietnam.

If the lesson of the Reagan era had been that Democrats should give a Republican president his due, the lesson of the Bush era was that doing so brought disaster.
Still reading but had to take a nice pause to reflect after this bit.

There's a ton to unpack here and in those events, but I think they highlight the dangers of dogmatic approaches. A big problem with the Republican message is that its treated as gospel - no matter what the situation, tax cuts, military buildup, tax cuts, deregulation, tax cuts. There is absolutely a time and place for all of those things in proper measure, but that time isn't all times, and that place isn't all places.

Thanks for sharing this OP.
 

DroidDev

Neo Member
It goes in cycles. You can see the right starting to gain hold with trump.

I really don't think the right is gaining anything by being represented by Trump. The establishment is by and large embarrassed by the man. If Trump is nominated, I'm not sure how it will affect the GOP, if it will fracture, double-down and continue to lose mainstream support, or somehow dissolve the Tea Party and shift towards the middle. Trump is the biggest political trainwreck, on the presidential level, that I've seen in my life. He's alienating moderate conservatives, which pretty much ensures Hillary is a lock for the next presidency.

You're definitely right about the cycles thing though. I just think we're seeing the peak of liberalism/conservative backlash. There will eventually be a swing back right; I just don't think we're close to that yet. I think maybe after a Clinton presidency or two.
 

krazen

Member
All I see is more demonizing from Bernie Sanders supporters against businesses. Don't give me that lame small business excuse. Big corporations like Microsoft, Apple, and even Walmart create massive amounts of employment and help America be better off.

Thats the problem. People look towards these corporations and say, "Wow, they make x billions and are world leaders! America, hell yeah!", not realizing we pay less taxes then they do that they keep out of our economy(Apple) and purposely dont pay a living wage(Walmart) letting the taxpayer foot the bill through public welfare and healthcare.

CRITIQUING corporate structure is not being anti-corporation(Which Bernie wants). Just because a business is doing awesome and employees people doesnt mean its a force for good, take a look at any sweatshop.
 

wildfire

Banned
I really don't think the country has shifted so much as the Republicans have let themselves become so radicalized. Elements within have been saying for some time the southern strategy needed to die and they needed to correct course. Instead we see a 2016 Election where the absolute crazies are doubling down on the southern strategy and just going bonkers.

The people who would be tempted to vote to the right are being completely turned off by the option the right is presenting them.


You're mistake is jumping to an extreme conclusion. The point being made is that Republicans are softening their stance or avoiding fights.

It is pretty telling that Republican mantra has been whining about black people desiring the death of police instead of going for the less ridiculous stance that crime needs to be controlled like they did in the 80s and 90s. The Republican's do understand that latter argument won't work so they have to rely on absurd ploy like rabid insanity.
 

televator

Member
I'll believe that a good portion of the citizenry is on certain issues. Washington... not so much. Local governments also got a loooong way to go in most states.
 
T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
Continental drift. Thanks a lot, global warming.
 
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