Support NeoGAF

[PBalfredo]

The controls for all other vehicles are very arcade-y. There are other games that do arcade controls for aircraft very well. So why do Battlefield and Battlefield derivative game all have these crappy pseudo-sim controls? If you're designing a jump-in-and-play game for mass consumption where driving a tank is as easy as Press Forward To Go, why have helicopters that flip over and crash ten feet off the ground?

 

[KojiKnight]

The controls for all other vehicles are very arcade-y. There are other games that do arcade controls for aircraft very well. So why do Battlefield and Battlefield derivative game all have these crappy pseudo-sim controls? If you're designing a jump-in-and-play game for mass consumption where driving a tank is as easy as Press Forward To Go, why have helicopters that flip over and crash ten feet off the ground?

Amusing GIFs would be my answer.

 

[Bren McGuire]

Why choose a gif that isn't from BF?

 

[Wario64]

Why choose a gif that isn't from BF?

AHAHAHAH

 

[XANDER CAGE]

"pseudo-sim controls"

Yeah, no, helicopters are pretty much the most complicated vehicle around. It's a blessing that chopper controls are as simple as they are in most games.

 

[Wellscha]

Air superiority abuse.

 

[abuC]

Do you really want everyone to be Maverick?

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

"pseudo-sim controls"

Yeah, no, helicopters are pretty much the most complicated vehicle around. It's a blessing that chopper controls are as simple as they are in most games.

Vice City still has the most simple and effective helicopter controls in gaming. It doesn't have to be needlessly complicated just because the vehicle is. It's a mystery why other companies haven't copied it.

 

[Raide]

Not the controls, its the pilots.

 

[Noisepurge]

"pseudo-sim controls"

Yeah, no, helicopters are pretty much the most complicated vehicle around. It's a blessing that chopper controls are as simple as they are in most games.

i thought they are very simple once you figure out the basics. Then its awesome to do circles around the enemy raining down death.

jet/airplane controls are as easy as a tank, really.

 

[MRORANGE]

The more important question is why a UAV heli can take out an apache.

 

[McLovin]

I love it, if your good at piloting them you're a total nightmare for the other team.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

I just wish there was a place to go train with the vehicles. I love the aircrafts, it's the best part of BF for me but I always feel guilty jumping in one knowing I might kill a nice bunch of people who were stupid enough to hang with a learner driver.
Throwing you in the deep end only leads to others raging at you.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Desert combat (a MOD, RIP BATTLEFIELD MODDING) had incredible helicopter physics.

Bf1942 had okay plane physics, arcadey , weight, some momentum, they felt like they flew.
Bf3 jets feel like mech suits, they don't fly they move along an X Y AND Z axis as if it's suspended in space with rubber bands.

We could have had good plane physics but dice decided frostbite was too complicated for the community (which translated to English means they don't want competition for their DLC and sequels) , while ironically vehicle physics (and netcode!) have been too complicated for DICE since the beginning.

That's the long answer, the short answer is dice simply doesn't have any talented people working on the plane and heli physics.

 

[Tomat]

The controls for all other vehicles are very arcade-y. There are other games that do arcade controls for aircraft very well. So why do Battlefield and Battlefield derivative game all have these crappy pseudo-sim controls? If you're designing a jump-in-and-play game for mass consumption where driving a tank is as easy as Press Forward To Go, why have helicopters that flip over and crash ten feet off the ground?

Got any suggestions for streamlining helicopter controls?

Vice City still has the most simple and effective helicopter controls in gaming. It doesn't have to be needlessly complicated just because the vehicle is. It's a mystery why other companies haven't copied it.

Vice City is also a completely different kind of game that does not have you doing the same things as you would in a Battlefield type game.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Maybe the issue is with the BF game is that the only way to log in some flight time is on a server or that co-op. There is no practice field. It takes practice to get good at it but the controls are fine.

How hard is it to understand rotate, pitch and throttle?

 

[nhlducks35]

God forbid someone has to learn to control something...

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Also Battlefield's controls allow for some insane stuff.

 

[TedNindo]

Because it's hilarious when people crash.

Imo they could be harder. Maybe they should just add some simple tutorial missions instead of making them idiot proof.

Damn gamers have gotten lazy when it comes to learning and mastering controls.

 

[EatChildren]

I think the helicopter controls in Battlefield 3 are really great. Bit of a learning curve, but not all that hard to get a hang of in my opinion. With mouse and keyboard, anyway. As long as you learn to keep the nose tilted down to move forward, you're good. Keep moving, spin around, and it's not too hard. Loving tearing up infantry as the little bird.

Jets, on the other hand, I am utterly abysmal at. I figure I need a stick or something, because I don't like the way they control with a mouse.

But to be honest, my biggest issue with any of the vehicles in Battlefield 3 is not how they control, but that DICE thought it would be totally rad idea to stick essential defense and attack capabilities behind grindy unlocks. I have no idea how nobody stood up during pre-production, or even testing, and said "This is a really, really, universally stupid idea".

 

[Cels]

Why choose a gif that isn't from BF?

Yes, posting a gif from Ravaged, a poorly-reviewed game I didn't know existed before I entered this thread, really helps get OP's point across.


Meanwhile in BF3 you see people completely dominating the skies in choppers and jets regularly, with pinpoint control.

The problem may just be the user, not the controls.

 

[PBalfredo]

Got any suggestions for streamlining helicopter controls?

Having them auto-level so you don't accidentally roll over and slam into the ground. I'll admit I shouldn't have said Battlefield-type game have universal bad air controls, because the one exception to prove the rule are the helicopters/remotes in Frontlines: Fuel of War. Of course, it also shapes the huge contrast between how user-friendly Frontlines' helicopters were and the schmuck-bait noobie-traps the Battlefield helicopters are.

 

[SapientWolf]

The BF franchise has awesome air controls. Although the chopper controls were better in BF2 than BF3.

Ravaged (in the GIF) did something really stupid with their netcode. Basically, flying is done completely server side.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Not the controls, its the pilots.

I was the jerk who did this every time in BG1943.
One time though I had a lot of fun dog fighting with another pilot.
He stayed in a plane almost the whole game but I kept going back up there for him.
Killing him at the end was worth it.

 

[daevv]

The second Co-op mission in Battlefield 3 was hard for me and a friend. It wasn't until I switched to 3rd person and inverted the chopper controls that we were able to finish the level. All other attempts ended just like the .gif in the OP.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Having them auto-level so you don't accidentally roll over and slam into the ground. I'll admit I shouldn't have said Battlefield-type game have universal bad air controls, because the one exception to prove the rule are the helicopters/remotes in Frontlines: Fuel of War. Of course, it also shapes the huge contrast between how user-friendly Frontlines' helicopters were and the schmuck-bait noobie-traps the Battlefield helicopters are.

Its almost like controlling a new fighting game character.

 

[demolitio]

Remember when people wanted games to involve a little bit of skill to be good in MP? The controls are hardly difficult at all in BF and it SHOULD require a bit of a learning curve considering that's the point of air support in BF. It's not meant to be as easy as pie, but somewhat challenging and then rewarding once a good pilot and gunner get in and can support the ground troops.

For my generalization of the day: Why do gamers universally want everything to be easy?

Ravaged is just shitty controls, but BF have controls that can be mastered with just a little big of practice and then you can do all the insane maneuvers you want. Bad controls would mean you wouldn't be able to do those maneuvers if they truly were bad instead of something you just have to get used to.

 

[sunnz]

BF has great controls I thought.

From BFBC1 to BF3, never had a problem and took like 2 maybe 3 games tops for me to understand the basics and be able to fly and shoot somewhat accurately...


I hate the idea of games becoming similar so more people understand, IF you want to be good at a certain thing, you should have to learn and put a bit of time into mastering or or at least understanding it.
It's a hell of a lot more rewarding.

 

[nullref]

Desert combat (a MOD, RIP BATTLEFIELD MODDING) had incredible helicopter physics.

Flying a helicopter in Desert Combat was challenging at first, but awesome once you got the hang of it. I liked that you had to work for it a bit.

 

[blurrygil]

Air superiority abuse.

This.

 

[The Faceless Master]

aren't the air vehicle controls in Homefront supposed to be super easy?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

 

[MarshMellow96]

As EatChildren rightly said, the bigger problem was trying to grind out those offensive/defensive unlocks. It took me way to long to unlock the heat seeker.

I do feel a 'training'/bot mode would help, too. Yeah, I understand that the controls can't be too simple, but I imagine heli pilots don't just hop in either.

 

[.GqueB.]

Also Battlefield's controls allow for some insane stuff.

Is this a magic chopper with no rotors?

 

[Portugeezer]

Yes, posting a gif from Ravaged, a poorly-reviewed game I didn't know existed before I entered this thread, really helps get OP's point across.


Meanwhile in BF3 you see people completely dominating the skies in choppers and jets regularly, with pinpoint control.

The problem may just be the user, not the controls.

Ravaged was a competent game, it could stand on its own but the community never really got going.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Is this a magic chopper with no rotors?

I'm pointing out that 1. "pseudo sim" is a stupid thing to call Battlefield's controls and 2. that the controls do allow for some great maneuvers.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Is this a magic chopper with no rotors?

Little bird.

I love the air controls in BF3.

 

[sunnz]

As EatChildren rightly said, the bigger problem was trying to grind out those offensive/defensive unlocks. It took me way to long to unlock the heat seeker.

I do feel a 'training'/bot mode would help, too. Yeah, I understand that the controls can't be too simple, but I imagine heli pilots don't just hop in either.

I mean the SP for BF3 was worthless, why not at least add proper heli, jet and vehicle missions in that to help train people...

I mean that is what BFBC1 did really well with its SP, which is why I did enjoy it ( plus the amazing squad)

I guess it does have that co op mission for the heli's.

 

[Woorloog]

Never had problem with the controls itself. Well, if i could set the keys manually rather than choosing from pre-made schemes would be nice but not essential.

Rather, lack of ability to train the controls, and the shitty unlock system make flying difficult.
People with certain defensive unlocks have so much advantage over others, it is hard to learn to fly in real game when others can shoot you down fast. (Also a map design issue, it is quite possible to shoot the others aircraft before they can get to air, but this depends on the map, and whether some kind soul is manning AA gun or not)

 

[Tomat]

I'm thankful for helicopter controls being they are. The GIF from the OP is why video games are fun. Dumb shit in games is funny.

 

[Gully State]

I'll just leave this here..

 

[Donos]

Also Battlefield's controls allow for some insane stuff.

O_O and that with m/kb

 

[PBalfredo]

Remember when people wanted games to involve a little bit of skill to be good in MP? The controls are hardly difficult at all in BF and it SHOULD require a bit of a learning curve considering that's the point of air support in BF. It's not meant to be as easy as pie, but somewhat challenging and then rewarding once a good pilot and gunner get in and can support the ground troops.

For my generalization of the day: Why do gamers universally want everything to be easy?

There's practicing a weapon/character kit/vehicle to progress on the learning curve from Beginner to Good, then there is having a whole other learning curve before that just to get from Instant Wreckage to Actually Flyable. Add in the fact that there is no practice mode, so the only time you can practice is in multiplayer matches. So the penalties for failure are much, much greater. Crashing your helicopter kills you, kills any teammates that jumped in, destroys the limited number of helicopters at a given time. Trying to go through the whole extra learning curve in the middle of a match is a huge detriment to the team.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

There's practicing a weapon/character kit/vehicle to progress on the learning curve from Beginner to Good, then there is having a whole other learning curve before that just to get from Instant Wreckage to Actually Flyable. Add in the fact that there is no practice mode, so the only time you can practice is in multiplayer matches. So the penalties for failure are much, much greater. Crashing your helicopter kills you, kills any teammates that jumped in, destroys the limited number of helicopters at a given time. Trying to go through the whole extra learning curve in the middle of a match is a huge detriment to the team.

I think this is a huge problem. Flight practice for me in the beginning of BF3 was me flying patterns in the base camp.

 

[ghst]

god forbid a AAA game has a skill ceiling higher than the muddy puddle mark on your osteoporotic ankles, grandpa.

 

[.GqueB.]

Little bird.

I love the air controls in BF3.

Aint THAT little.

I'm pointing out that 1. "pseudo sim" is a stupid thing to call Battlefield's controls and 2. that the controls do allow for some great maneuvers.

Yea those were fantastic moves but the spacial aspect of it was messing with my brain. Kind of makes me want to play that game though. I have my eye on BF4.

 

[Woorloog]

I'll add that i kinda like the difficulty of the controls, in BF3 at least, appreciate the skill gap they create. It is possible to see at a glance if the pilot is a noob or pro.

For comparison, flight controls in Halos are really simple (and wonderful) but they don't require much skill (of course, vehicles in Halo are kind of brute force weapons that are assets for the team, to be denied from enemies, similar to "power weapons" like Rocket Launcher or Shotgun). EDIT arguably the only hard to use flying vehicle in Halo is Reach's Falcon helicopter, which requires a gunner, so teamwork beetween pilot and gunner(s) is essential, and the inertia of Falcon requires a bit more skill than any other flying vehicle in Halos (Banshee or Horner).

 

[minzo]

I'll just leave this here..

He did it again..

 

[Aleph]

ARMA 3's heli controls are also difficult to master, but then again, its supposed to be a simulation. I remember Bad Company's 2 controls being quite hard, too.

 

[.GqueB.]

I'll add that i kinda like the difficulty of the controls, in BF3 at least, appreciate the skill gap they create. It is possible to see at a glance if the pilot is a noob or pro.

For comparison, flight controls in Halos are really simple (and wonderful) but they don't require much skill (of course, vehicles in Halo are kind of brute force weapons that are assets for the team, to be denied from enemies, similar to "power weapons" like Rocket Launcher or Shotgun).

They don't require much skill to handle but I'd say they require a certain amount of skill to actually be effective for any stretch of time since it's all about how you navigate the map and use it to your advantage. Not everyone can wrack up 30 kills in those things which my friend can do on a pretty regular basis.

It requires a different type of skill me thinks.