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[legend166]

Theory - may or may not be anywhere close to the mark (most likely not):

Are black people generally larger at a younger age than white people? I know Pacific Islanders are. That's why in the Rugby codes (League and Union), you get an over representation of Pacific Islanders. They dominate at an early age because they are so big, which means they are more likely to continue playing the sport as they grow old, whilst the skinny white kid is more likely to give it up at an early age.

People in Sydney are talking about changing junior Rugby comps so that it's based on weight rather than age, because you've got a ten year old white skinny kid, and a ten year old huge Polynesian kid, and you know what happens.

So maybe it's genetics, but just at a completely different age to what every here is saying?

Of course, that could be entirely incorrect because I don't know if African-Americans mature (physically) at a quicker rate than white people.

And maybe that's why the over representation doesn't extend to QBs - being huge isn't as important in that position.

 

[Zzoram]

I don't understand the criticism behind this example. Genetics is blind to cultural preference. If your argument is solely genetics, then you would see it applied over the top American sports. Why don't you pick out the top ten American sports your self, and see if black people dominate all the sports listed.

Let's try a different approach. Athletics. 100m. Why are black athletes more prevalent in 100m then say in javelin?

Its a long time since I've actually studied these but some of the theories put forth, iirc, are role models. i,e, Jesse Owens.

Different sports require different attributes? Sprinting is dominated by Kenyans and marathons are dominated by Ethopians, probably due to a slight genetic advantage in those areas, that only matters when training to the highest level of competition.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Thanks for this. Seriously, this is stuff I picked up from first year college courses. There is no known link between physical and mental ability and skin color. Any true separation by race goes far enough beyond external appearances that culture plays a far bigger role.

sorry, but only 4 white males have broken the 10s barrier in the 100m dash. all previous world record holders (and current world record holder) are west african in origin. west africans dominate short distance events, north african the middle distance, and east africans the long distance events.

what you say about culture playing a bigger role is true, though. but there's an obvious genetic component at work... although skin colour alone doesn't tell you much. so I guess i basically agree with you.

 

[BocoDragon]

Is 500 years slightly better?

Touche. But that's still an insignificant time-frame for population change.

But.... if the idea was that America (and other slave-own nations) contained more athletic Africans than Africa does, due to un-natural selection of who was brought over, then I think there could be truth to that.....

But then like people said African soccer teams would dominate the world, which they don't and never have... Because it has nothing to do with genes... because people are people.

People are people... but we all have different DNA which correspond to certain traits, including body type. Obviously these traits are not divided down so-called "racial" lines, but obviously the category of each "race" will have more or less individuals with a particular trait (like any grouping of people you might choose).

 

[Branduil]

west africans have on average a higher ratio of fast twitch: low twitch muscle fibres than any other groups around the world. nations that had many west african slaves - the us, jamaica, haiti, etc. - are overrepresented at the olympic games in sprint events. it doesn't mean that the average black person with west african heritage is significantly more athletic. we're talking about very small differences that only become important at the highest levels of competition.

and it is innacurate to simplify and say that all black people are fast runners when in fact (obviously) tons are not athletic and most are average athletes AND there are subsets of the black population from ethiopia, kenya, etc. that are on the other end of the spectrum and excel in long distance running.

so what it comes down to are social factors combined with a slight genetic advantage due to a west african heritage.

I've heard this slavery = eugenics a lot and I don't buy it. How does being quick and explosive relate to surviving squallid conditions, doing back breaking labour, etc.? Is there any evidence that breeding occured? And did the breeding occur for a long enough period for a significant change to occur? sounds like a lot of crack pottery to me.

Obviously slavery was actually a long-term conspiracy by the Illuminati to create a race of super athletes.

Also this thread reminds me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Snyder#Controversy

On January 16, 1988, he was fired by the CBS network (for which he had been a regular on the NFL Today since 1976) after commenting to WRC-TV reporter Ed Hotaling in a Washington, D.C. restaurant that African Americans were naturally superior athletes at least in part because they had been bred to produce stronger offspring during slavery:
“ The black is a better athlete to begin with because he's been bred to be that way, because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs and he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trade'n the big… the owner… the slave owner would, would, would, would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have ah, ah big, ah big, ah big black kid see…

 

[gutter_trash]

Hockey is an expensive ass sport, buy the pads, buy the blades, buy sticks, buy the helmet blablablblabla

heck, I am not even gonna let my kid play Hockey, I will tell him to get a part-time job if he ever wants to play that

here is a Soccer Ball or Basket Ball + sneakers.. there you go

 

[Devolution]

Touche. But that's still an insignificant time-frame for population change.

But.... if the idea was that America (and other slave-own nations) contained more athletic Africans than Africa does, due to un-natural selection of who was brought over, then I think there could be truth to that.....



People are people... but we all have different DNA which correspond to certain traits, including body type. Obviously these traits are not divided down so-called "racial" lines, but obviously the category of each "race" will have more or less individuals with a particular trait (like any grouping of people you might choose).

You're acting like they got these people from all of Africa when they were taken from specific regions.

 

[Zzoram]

Europeans are the best weight lifters aren't they? They tend to bulk up in the upper body more or something, particularly northern Europeans IIRC.

Minor regional genetic advantages, it's not racial, but it's genetic.

 

[iirate]

sorry, but only 4 white males have broken the 10s barrier in the 100m dash. all previous world record holders (and current world record holder) are west african in origin. west africans dominate short distance events, north african the middle distance, and east africans the long distance events.

what you say about culture playing a bigger role is true, though. but there's an obvious genetic component at work... although skin colour alone doesn't tell you much. so I guess i basically agree with you.

Yeah, I guess I may have over-simplified a little, when trying to tell people that the situation isn't so simple, heh. The truth is, there's a lot that we still don't know about this, and genetics certainly play a factor, but what people typically assume about race and genetics seems to be far off the mark.

 

[legend166]

Different sports require different attributes? Sprinting is dominated by Kenyans and marathons are dominated by Ethopians, probably due to a slight genetic advantage in those areas, that only matters when training to the highest level of competition.

If I remember correctly, the Ethiopians that dominate the marathon are actually all just from one area in Ethiopia. So it's not even Ethiopians in general. Just a small subset.

 

[BocoDragon]

You're acting like they got these people from all of Africa when they were taken from specific regions.

I'm not sure if I said anything that conflicts with what you've just said...?

 

[abuC]

European players are succeeding? What other player from there is a star other than Dirk?

Really?

Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Rudy Fernandez
Jose Calderon
Ersan Ilyasova
Hedo Turkoglu
Enes Kanter(Hasn't played yet but is expected to be very good)
AK47
Omer Asik
Marcin Gortat
Andrea Bargnani



And while not European, they are racially white:

Manu Ginobili
Luis Scola


Aussie
Andrew Bogut


These are just the players I consider decent to great, as in most of them are starters or contributors to the team, there are more non American white players in the NBA (around 50-60). So why is it these guys can play in the league?

 

[Zzoram]

If I remember correctly, the Ethiopians that dominate the marathon are actually all just from one area in Ethiopia. So it's not even Ethiopians in general. Just a small subset.

Yes, that's correct. It's still genetics. Take an Ethiopian from that region where their ancestors survived by poison darting an animal and chasing it for 20 hours, and someone who's ancestors were farmers, give them equal time and training for marathons, and the Ethiopian wins due to genetic advantage.

It's not race, but genetic advantages are real.

 

[Ashes]

So American Football is all about the sprint? not about upper body strength?

 

[CriginsMcJuggs]

European players are succeeding? What other player from there is a star other than Dirk?

 

[Derrick01]

Really?

Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Rudy Fernandez
Jose Calderon
Ersan Ilyasova
Hedo Turkoglu
Enes Kanter(Hasn't played yet but is expected to be very good)
AK47
Omer Asik
Marcin Gortat



These are just the players I consider decent to great, as in most of them are starters or contributors to the team, there are more non American white players in the NBA (around 50-60).

So 1 player who is/was great (pau) and a bunch of role players and mediocre starters. Gotcha.

I didn't say there weren't any white people in the NBA ya know. I could have made a list consisting of Kirk Heinrich, JJ Reddick, Kyle Korver etc but I didn't because if anything those players prove my point.

 

[Narag]

So American Football is all about the sprint? not about upper body strength?

Depends on position.

 

[FStop7]

I think trying to boil this down to a racial component is pretty shortsighted.

For example - do you think Austria has historically dominated Alpine skiing events at the Olympics because of anything to do with race?

 

[Vic]

Different sports require different attributes? Sprinting is dominated by Kenyans and marathons are dominated by Ethopians, probably due to a slight genetic advantage in those areas, that only matters when training to the highest level of competition.

Eh? I don't recall Kenya ever winning a sprinting competition...

 

[Ashes]

Depends on position.

Are white people more prevalent on positions of upper body strength, and black people more prevalent in sprint positions? Or is it the case that black people are over-representative across the board?

 

[legend166]

Someone tell me if my theory is crazy or not.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Extreme sports are typically for the rich and have a high cost of participation.

swimming then.

 

[Darkman M]

And are white people more prevalent on positions of upper body strength, and black people more prevalent in sprint positions. Or is it the case that black people are over-representative across the board?

Whites make the best Offensive Lineman.

 

[Ashes]

Whites make the best Offensive Lineman.

I'm not interested in which race makes for better positions based on physical attributes alone. The point being argued is the representation of black people in the NFL. Are black people over-represented across the board or to specific positions?

 

[Lionheart1337]

swimming then.

pools closed

Spoiler

black people being denied access to pools

 

[I H8 Memes]

So American Football is all about the sprint? not about upper body strength?

At the skill positions it is about having great balance, speed, and the ability to change direction quickly. Straight line speed alone is useless in the NFL.

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

Spoiler

For people too young to remember this guy, do a search for Jimmy "the Greek" and peep anything about controversy

 

[CriginsMcJuggs]

Someone tell me if my theory is crazy or not.

It may have some merit, although I don't think black kids are known to develop faster.

Are white people more prevalent on positions of upper body strength, and black people more prevalent in sprint positions? Or is it the case that black people are over-representative across the board?

White people are better at positions that dont require size(quarterback, slot receiver, kicker) OR positions that need size but not speed(fullback, tight end, offensive linemen).

 

[abuC]

So 1 player who is/was great (pau) and a bunch of role players and mediocre starters. Gotcha.

I didn't say there weren't any white people in the NBA ya know. I could have made a list consisting of Kirk Heinrich, JJ Reddick, Kyle Korver etc but I didn't because if anything those players prove my point.

Marc/Andrea are not mediocre starters, and Manu and Luis are both white racially, and both played in the Euroleague before coming to the NBA.

The major difference is that there are several good players from outside the US that are white, and only 1 all-star caliber American born player in Kevin Love. Also, why is it that NBA teams are more willing to draft European players in the lottery? Hell, before Adam Morrison, who was the last American white player taken in the top 5 of the draft? Two white players born outside the US have been drafted 1 in the last 10 years.

 

[ShdwDrake]

I'm not interested in which race makes for better positions based on physical attributes alone. The point being argued is the representation of black people in the NFL. Are black people over-represented across the board or to specific positions?

What speed positions like WR and RB are dominated by blacks yes. Other Positions are more even.

 

[Ashes]

At the skill positions it is about having great balance, speed, and the ability to change direction quickly. Straight line speed alone is useless in the NFL.

That's one of the problems people who look at black people in one sport, and then look at the colour of skin, and see this blackness, and go: Oh it must be the colour of their skin, it must be because they are black.

On a genetic level, race is more debated (controversial?) and harder to draw lines on.

 

[Windu]

Why are black people underrepresented in baseball? The best player in the last 50 years is black, we need more of it.

with the amount of international players in the mlb when you actually account for just the americans, i think the amount of african americans are basically in line (maybe a little lower, but not drastic) with what the census says, something like 12%. I think african americans in mlb is something like 10% or so and that includes international players, so its a little higher than that when you take them out.


edit: here we go. Apparently 27.7% of the players in mlb are foreign born and 8.5% are African Americans.

The percentage of players with foreign-born roots is the same as it was last season -- 27.7. The total of 234 is a figure that spans 14 countries and territories.

The percentage of black players dropped to 8.5 percent on opening day this year, down from 10 percent at the start of last season and its lowest level since 2007. The percentage of Latino players dropped from 28.4 percent to 27 percent – baseball’s lowest since 1999′s 26 percent.

edit: they accounted for everyone on the 25 man rosters, restricted lists and disabled lists to get that 27.7 percent (849) If my math is correct, adjusting for that stuff, it puts african americans right around 12-13% of americans in the mlb, right in line with the census.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

This thread raises a very good question:

why isn't soccer more popular in America?

Poor kids can play it just fine, you just need a ball to kick and a place to kick it. You don't need any more room than a basketball court. Poor people all over the world play it overwhelmingly.

I think you have to follow the money/process. I woud think US College athletics has a lot to do with it. College atheletics is a significant portion of revenue for the institutions and the media/advertising that leverages it. Those institutions want Basketball and Football (in reverse order) when there is a desire for College athletics to promote Soccer because there is a revenue stream that it can support then youll see more Soccer pushed down to the high school level.

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

swimming then.

Owners of pools are hesitant to change the complexion of their pools.

 

[Puddles]

Are there any white or asian people who can run a 4.3 40? Serious question, no racist, plz no ban.

 

[El Sloth]

Relevant?

 

[Puddles]

Redguards are the most naturally talented warriors. Seems Bethesda agrees.

 

[DominoKid]

so Eyeshield really went there. wow.

 

[sans_pants]

strictly through observation i thought it was pretty common to think that black folk tended to have a disposition for higher testosterone. the best overall athletes in the world are all black. if you step in a normal gym youll often find black people that don't know anything about a good lifting program with huge muscles they barely have to work for. i feel bad for the ones that don't have the test boost. im sure ive seen studies on it but they pretty quickly get labeled racist and I'm not enough of a scientist to test their validity.

 

[Darkman M]

This thread is a gold mine lol.

 

[DY_nasty]

strictly through observation i thought it was pretty common to think that black folk tended to have a disposition for higher testosterone. the best overall athletes in the world are all black. if you step in a normal gym youll often find black people that don't know anything about a good lifting program with huge muscles they barely have to work for. i feel bad for the ones that don't have the test boost. im sure ive seen studies on it but they pretty quickly get labeled racist and I'm not enough of a scientist to test their validity.

Its why we always play rushdown in fighting games and never block overheads

 

[El Sloth]

so Eyeshield really went there. wow.

It's difficult to find Japanese sports comics that don't go there.

 

[Opiate]

Here's the problem with the "slavery did it" explanation: if you argue that slave masters deliberately bred strong slaves (and that this effect was substantial and still visible today), then it follows that they likely specifically chose the most intellectually docile slaves, too.

In other words, they wouldn't just want them strong; they would want them strong and dumb, because strong alone would yield slaves particularly capable of throwing off their shackles.

That is the logical conclusion of that line and thinking, and it is precisely why it is so controversial. It does not make it wrong, necessarily, but it's certainly an explosive proposition and I caution everyone in this thread from treading further down that path unless you know precisely what you're doing.

 

[DominoKid]

It's difficult to find Japanese sport comics that don't go there.

ah i've never got into any of the sports mangas. i just recognize it cause i remember it having a cool artstyle.

Did Prince of Tennis go there?

 

[Seth C]

interesting.
so what are white people good at?

Digesting milk, for one.

 

[Zzoram]

I guess the other issue with the slave breeding is that once the slaves were set free, they were able to marry whoever they wanted, ending the selective pressure, and possibly undoing any selection done by the slave owners. That's assuming that the freed slaves didn't continue to choose partners based on the same criteria that their slave owners used to make them use.

That plus the massive infusion of genes from the mixed children and marrying people not descended from slaves would've diluted any effects of slave breeding by now most likely.

 

[Zibrahim]

Here's the problem with the "slavery did it" explanation: if you argue that slave masters deliberately bred strong slaves (and that this effect was substantial and still visible today), then it follows that they likely specifically chose the most intellectually docile slaves, too.

In other words, they wouldn't just want them strong; they would want them strong and dumb, because strong alone would yield slaves particularly capable of throwing off their shackles.

That is the logical conclusion of that line and thinking, and it is precisely why it is so controversial. It does not make it wrong, necessarily, but it's certainly an explosive proposition and I caution everyone in this thread from treading further down that path unless you know precisely what you're doing.

This thread...wow, this thread.

 

[Baby Milo]

because were awesome

 

[Opiate]

I guess the other issue with the slave breeding is that once the slaves were set free, they were able to marry whoever they wanted, ending the selective pressure, and possibly undoing any selection done by the slave owners. That's assuming that the freed slaves didn't continue to choose partners based on the same criteria that their slave owners used to make them use.

Right, you'd have to argue that the selective pressure was so strong that its effects can still be felt today despite dilution over the last hundred and fifty years.

 

[ZephyrFate]

This thread...wow, this thread.

You are contributing absolutely nothing. I bet you know that.