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Why are Nintendo games uncopiable?

Ratchet and Clank is the closest I've ever thought anyone came to a real Mario platformer, and even there they for some reason have doubled down on those guns so much, I think they've kinda lost the platformer they almost had (but that just from trying demos for most of the PS3 games and deciding they weren't worth buying).

Most of this is just spending obscene amounts of time focused on control issues I've always thought. Making characters quick and responsive so that you can do precise things. Lots of devs just don't care, and their games still sell (see the Souls games), so I guess it doesn't matter to a lot of people. Heck, lots of games sell themselves based on awful controls making the game "difficult" at this point.
 
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Got them on both fronts.
 
I don't think none of their series could be competently copied, it's just that most of them are genre or game types that only have wide appeal becuase of the brand. Like take Zelda for example, at its heart it is a pretty complex and core experience with a lot of intricate design. It takes a lot of money and time to design something like that without any guarantee of return. Most pubs looking to sink that kind of time and money are going to want more than a few million copies sold.
 
With respect to 3D platformers only, the two Galaxy games released on an immensely popular console to terrific sales and were so extraordinary that they basically nuked the entire genre. It seemed like no other developer wanted to risk inviting an almost certainly unfavorable comparison. We are only now seeing a resurgence from independent developers.
 
I always compared Nintendo to the Disney of gaming, in a way at least. Like how you have that "Disney feel" to a movie, to me that's like Nintendo's touch in gaming, you usually know you're playing a Nintendo game and they just have their branded way on how to do things.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's how I always viewed it.
 
I honestly disagree you OP.

F-Zero: Fast Neo Racing
Metroid: Axiom Verge, Ghost Song
Mario: Rayman Origins/Legends
Zelda 3D: Darksiders I & II
Zelda 2D: The Adventures of Alundra, 3D Dot Game Heroes
Mario Kart: Sonic All Stars Racing Series (Original and Racing Transformed)
Pikmin: Overlord Series

A lot of Nintendo's big name series have versions on other platforms that range from good too even better then Nintendo's own series. I personally prefer the Rayman series (2D games) to the NSMB series despite the latter being good and Darksiders I was an amazing 3D Zelda. All Stars Racing Transformed is the best Kart Racer I have ever played (next to CTR and Mario Kart DS).

Nintendo has 'that feel' that makes their games better then others....but when Nintendo isn't making games in a series (cough Metroid & F-Zero cough), its clear that the indie/third title does wonders in replacing those series.
 
on top of them being great franchises in all aspects.... i think they have such iconography, prestige, and legacy that it's difficult for fans/media/etc to compare anything to them....

no one wants to admit when there is a (better) copy of Zelda because Zelda is ZELDA. i mean come on. I mean of crouse i've seen some people say it, but the general concensus mentality is zelda is the best and will never be dethroned for whatever reasons I stated above.
 
SMattera said:
Even if you disagree, would you at least say it's better than any 2D platformer Nintendo has put out since Yoshi's Island?

The NSMB games, while obviously influencing Rayman with the multiplayer aspect, are just so sterile.

As for 3D platformers, Galaxy and Galaxy 2 are definitely the best, but in the late 90s/early 00s, Nintendo had a lot of competition and much of it was better. Banjo-Kazooie, for example, being a much better game than Mario 64.
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I will say that the Rayman games have excellent multiplayer, much better than Nintendo's efforts in a 2D platformer. Including kung foot and the Murfy stages. (that outright suck in single player but in multi they're great) I also think every platformer ever needs to end with a stage like Night of the Livid Dead. An optional "bragging rights" level.

However, I find Origins can get a little repetitive, and Legends feels thrown together. I personally preferred Retro's DK Countries, and while the Rayman games are aesthetically way better, I prefer the level design in NSMBU.
 
entremet said:
Weird premise because Mario was basically copied for two generations straight--8 and 16 bit generations.

Zelda less so. Zelda is a rare bird. Okami was three Zelda games, though.
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Yea...it isnt that they arent able to be copied...its:

No one is doing a good job copying them.....right now.

or

No one wants to really copy them....right now.

I would argue Rayman is a good enough challenger tho.

That LBP Karting game is decent, PlayStation All Stars is ok too.

And reading the rest of the thread now....if you mean Zelda and other Nintendo games too then there were a few decent challengers to those thrones also.
 
Most developers simply don't have the calibre of staff or, more importantly, the luxury of near-limitless development times that Nintendo enjoys to craft something as good as a major Mario/Zelda title.

Either that or they screw it up, under-perform at retail, and convince themselves that there isn't an audience for 'Nintendo-style' games outside of Nintendo.
 
Kyrios said:
I always compared Nintendo to the Disney of gaming, in a way at least. Like how you have that "Disney feel" to a movie, to me that's like Nintendo's touch in gaming, you usually know you're playing a Nintendo game and they just have their branded way on how to do things.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's how I always viewed it.
Click to expand...

Disney is as mainstream you can get in film right now. They own LucasFilm and Marvel Studios along with turning out there usual CGI animation films. The reason Disney dominates is because they offer a wide range of films aimed at different audience (G to R rated films),

Nintendo is the anti Disney.
 
I've yet to experience another platformer that's even remotely as satisfactory as a Mario game (both 2D and 3D). It's surprisingly hard to understand (let alone make) "enjoyable physics", but Nintendo seems to have the formula down.
 
Alundra is the best Zelda game and pretty much a copy of how LTTP plays. CTR is the best kart racer and clearly inspired by Mario Kart.

Nintendo does still have the best 2D platformers by far (Super Mario World especially). When it comes to 3D platformers I'd rank Crash trilogy above 64 but below Galaxies.
 
I think there's something to OP's question, especially in the case of Mario (Zelda's been real dicey for me for a while now). Sure, nobody is trying to make a Mario-killer presently, but that wasn't always the case. Mascot platformers used to be the big-ticket genre back in the day and as many have pointed out the 90's were filled with halfbaked platformers vying for Mario's crown. I don't think it's controversial to say that few, if any, ever came close. So why is that?

What makes Mario good? In my opinion:
- Fun physics: accelerating, jumping, and the way those two verbs interact are compelling and enjoyable in their own right.
- Masterful level design built upon these mechanics that explore their potential thorougly.

I think the underlined is the real key. Lots of platformers (especially modern indies) have great physics and/or mechanics. Many of them have good level design. But how many of them wring as much potential from their mechanics as the best Mario games?

Honest question cuz I'm always looking for good platformers to play.

As for why this nut was never really cracked during the heyday of the platformer? A combination of a primarily profit-driven motive ("let's cash-in on Mario!") and a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes Mario appealing (hint: it's not Mario himself).
 
protomouse said:
I've yet to experience another platformer that's even remotely as satisfactory as a Mario game (both 2D and 3D). It's surprisingly hard to understand (let alone make) "enjoyable physics", but Nintendo seems to have the formula down.
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Don't want to being Sega vs. Nintendo into the mix here.....but the old 2D Sonic's have really great game-feels and clicked with me better compared to the 2D Mario games.

Its almost an in-verse for me for both series; the 2D Sonic games feel great to me and the 3D Mario's are perfect to me but the 2D Mario's feel 'okay' while the 3D Sonic games are really mixed depending on which game I play.
 
Bear Force One said:
That doesn't mean anything.
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Depends. Their culture fosters creativity, the importance of gameplay and how a game feels, even how a button press feels. How a game feels, and how a button press feels are some of the biggest and most important things that also made their games shine the brightest in the NES, SNES, and N64 era. Mario 64 being the greatest example of this in the move to 3D and how they go try to perfect things, even give you tiny little details that probably don't even matter like the pun on camera angle, Lakitu as an angler.

Something many often neglect when copying a game, even the "loving touches" (as it's called in Japan) the tiny details.
 
Napalm_Frank said:
Alundra is the best Zelda game and pretty much a copy of how LTTP plays. CTR is the best kart racer and clearly inspired by Mario Kart.

Nintendo does still have the best 2D platformers by far (Super Mario World especially). When it comes to 3D platformers I'd rank Crash trilogy above 64 but below Galaxies.
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Straight clownin..

People dont want to believe it but Nintendo Magic™ is real.

Glorified G said:
Disney is as mainstream you can get in film right now. They own LucasFilm and Marvel Studios along with turning out there usual CGI animation films. The reason Disney dominates is because they offer a wide range of films aimed at different audience (G to R rated films),

Nintendo is the anti Disney.
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Another one who dont get it
 
Napalm_Frank said:
Alundra is the best Zelda game and pretty much a copy of how LTTP plays. CTR is the best kart racer and clearly inspired by Mario Kart.

Nintendo does still have the best 2D platformers by far (Super Mario World especially). When it comes to 3D platformers I'd rank Crash trilogy above 64 but below Galaxies.
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I don't understand how Alundra is the best 2D Zelda. That makes me really curious about what you think of all post-LTTP Zeldas.
 
Mihael Mello Keehl said:
Straight clownin..

People dont want to believe it but Nintendo Magic™ is real.
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Oh, its real......but it 'clicks' depending on the game. Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask are the only 3D Zeldas that really suck me in and I can play through both over and over again if I wanted too for example :).
 
maxcriden said:
I don't understand how Alundra is the best 2D Zelda. That makes me really curious about what you think of all post-LTTP Zeldas.
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OOT never really grabbed me, MM I haven't played enough to form an opinion, Wind Waker is ace, Twilight Princess is my favourite, Skyward Sword haven't played.

BTW I'm not a big fan of LTTP either. In my books WW and TP are the only ones in the series I really liked.
 
vincenth69 said:
Brand recognition.

We had the same gameplay over the times. But between two exact same products, you pick the brand you know.
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The thing is we have similarly designed games, but the gameplay in Nintendo's games towers above the alternatives. It's not about brand recognition. If someone could make a 2D platformer that played as well as, say, Super Mario World, I'd be over the moon thrilled.

SMattera said:
Even if you disagree, would you at least say [Rayman Origins is] better than any 2D platformer Nintendo has put out since Yoshi's Island?

The NSMB games, while obviously influencing Rayman with the multiplayer aspect, are just so sterile.
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No. New Super Mario Bros. U is a tremendous game, and is the best 2D platformer since SMW. Rayman is certainly prettier, but NSMBU is the better game.

Stevey said:
Sonic>Mario
Darksiders>Zelda
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There's been one good Sonic game in the last 20 years. And every Mario game in the last 20 years except the original NSMB is better than that game.

And Darksiders is very good, but sheesh.
 
Napalm_Frank said:
OOT never really grabbed me, MM I haven't played enough to form an opinion, Wind Waker is ace, Twilight Princess is my favourite, Skyward Sword haven't played.

BTW I'm not a big fan of LTTP either. In my books WW and TP are the only ones in the series I really liked.
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I appreciate the info. That's fascinating to me. If you only liked WW and TP, though, I can see how the rest of the series wouldn't scratch the same itch. (Although, and no offense intended with this, I'm wondering if you've played enough of the Zelda canon to reasonably call Alundra the best Zelda; have you played other 2D entries beyond LTTP?)
 
Neff said:
Most developers simply don't have the calibre of staff or, more importantly, the luxury of near-limitless development times that Nintendo enjoys to craft something as good as a major Mario/Zelda title.
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Emphasis mine. Broadly speaking, this is true for first parties compared to third parties. But Nintendo has been doing this longer than anyone else (and even they admitted they stumbled when entering the HD era).

The level of control and character Nintendo imbue into their IP is practically unrivaled, but I've never thought it was anything like some innate ability or magical accident. It's very hard work, iterated to near-perfection.

OPINION: For charm and verve, Puppeteer is one of the few games in recent memory that really made me sit up and take notice. It was a fine platformer in its own right as well, but not quite the hub-world approach that is common in recent Mario games. I strongly agree with others' nods to Okami too.
 
Nanashrew said:
Depends. Their culture fosters creativity, the importance of gameplay and how a game feels, even how a button press feels. How a game feels, and how a button press feels are some of the biggest and most important things that also made their games shine the brightest in the NES, SNES, and N64 era. Mario 64 being the greatest example of this in the move to 3D and how they go try to perfect things, even give you tiny little details that probably don't even matter like the pun on camera angle, Lakitu as an angler.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. It doesn't matter what game you're making, putting optimum effort into any action that a player is going to spend the majority of their play time doing, pays off in spades.

If you can just make that jump mechanic a little more tactile, or give that gun blast a more satisfying kick, to the point where your player can't get enough of the simple joy of just dicking around even if they're not actually achieving anything (Super Mario 64 being the gold standard here), then you've already broken a barrier well worth breaking.
 
I can't believe how many people here prefer Darksiders over Twlight Princess and Skyward Sword or any 3D Zelda.

Darksiders has, by proper character action games standards, straight up awful combat and, by Zelda standards, poor dungeons.

And a revolting artstyle on top. Darksiders 1 was probably my most disappointing game of last gen.
 
maxcriden said:
I appreciate the info. That's fascinating to me. If you only liked WW and TP, though, I can see how the rest of the series wouldn't scratch the same itch. (Although, and no offense intended with this, I'm wondering if you've played enough of the Zelda canon to reasonably call Alundra the best Zelda; have you played other 2D entries beyond LTTP?)
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I've played the first Zelda but I don't really bundle it in the same category I do with OOT, WW, TP, Alundra. It's ok I guess. Also I have played Spirit Tracks and assume that is considered 2D Zelda in this case. It was also ok but nothing special.

Well, of course it could be that I'd find MM or SS to be my favourite if played them (I have given MM a lil try but it doesn't feel like my cup of tea). Or Okami I guess, haven't played that one either. Or any other Zelda clones I don't know about so you could say my statement is hyperbole. Point being Alundra in my books shows another company can use the formula and create a game that is easily equal if not surpasses the games.

Personally I think 2D platformers is the only genre where nobody has come close to Nintendo.
 
Nintendo Magic

No, it really comes down to an insane level of polish and a "gameplay first" way of working.
 
There's a reason why the new Zelda is so inspired by "western games". Skyrim is the elephant in the room that took what people like about Zelda (wandering in big fantasy world,graphics) and jettisoned what people don't care about (expansive dungeons) to create a product that simple appeals to more people than Zelda does.
 
OrbitalBeard said:
Sonic and the Black Knight.

What.

If you consider that to be a good Sonic game, then yeah, I could see how you would disagree with him lol

Might as well throw in Sonic '06 and Sonic Boom while you're at it.
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Its a good game though :l. I explained why in the thread I made but I really enjoyed that game.

NOTHING comes close to 06 and Boom Wii U outside of maybe....Chronicles and Sonic Blast :l.
 
RK128 said:
*Cough*
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Advance 1 & 2
Sonic Battle
Sonic Riders & Zero Gravity
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic & The Black Knight
Sonic Colors
Sonic All Stars Racing
Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed
Sonic Generations
*Cough*

That is a lot more then one mate ;).
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I'll give you Generations. I actually forgot Rush, so that's two! But my point still stands about the rest of the last 20 years of Mario games being better.

And Racing Transformed isn't a platformer. It is good! But Mario Kart 8 is basically perfection, and it can't compare to that.
 
Coffee Dog said:
There's a reason why the new Zelda is so inspired by "western games". Skyrim is the elephant in the room that took what people like about Zelda (wandering in big fantasy world,graphics) and jettisoned what people don't care about (expansive dungeons) to create a product that simple appeals to more people than Zelda does.
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Uhm you've played the dungeons? Also the best of Skyrim are the dungeons. New Zelda seems more influenced by the first game anyway.
 
Lambtron said:
I'll give you Generations. I actually forgot Rush, so that's two! But my point still stands about the rest of the last 20 years of Mario games being better.

And Racing Transformed isn't a platformer. It is good! But Mario Kart 8 is basically perfection, and it can't compare to that.
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You have a good point there XD! But Sonic had a number of good games that while not better then Mario's adventures, are still enjoyable experiences.
 
RK128 said:
Its a good game though :l. I explained why in the thread I made but I really enjoyed that game.

NOTHING comes close to 06 and Boom Wii U outside of maybe....Chronicles and Sonic Blast :l.
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I couldn't stand what little I played it of but I'll admit it is probably a better game than '06 and Boom.
 
RK128 said:
You have a good point there XD! But Sonic had a number of good games that while not better then Mario's adventures, are still enjoyable experiences.
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Yeah, Sonic has its moments as a series. And I have fond memories of (the first stages of) Adventure 1 & 2. But they just never reach the highs of Mario haha. That's all!
 
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