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Why are Xenosaga fanatics psuedo-intellectual elitists?
- Thread starter U5230
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FateBreaker
Member
I can understand iffy-ness with Xenosaga, but I'll never be able to understand it with Xenogears.
Xenogears has a brilliant script. I don't know how you can think otherwise.
Anyway, the answer to the question is what we were promised. It's kind of like Sakaguchi. Sakaguchi created Final Fantasy...so, we know he's hot stuff. That's practically the only reason we're hyped up for Blue Dragon.
Takahashi did Xenogears. People love Xenogears. Becausae Xenogears is amazing.
Takahashi was then supposed to make a series Xenosaga. People got giddy. We wanted it to rival up with FF because, again, we love Xenogears so much. Episode I was good, offering a great presentation to something that could truly be excellent. Episode II...worse gameplay and story, but the story was still pretty good. Problem is, we see the lack of goodness in episode II, and it's easy to know why: We're missing some people.
Anyway, Episode III's the end. And we just want to really hope it'll turn out good. In fact, I'm sure some of us could care less about the gameplay (to a certain extent), we just want to be satisfied with the conclusion and not have the previous two installments feel like a waste of time.
Xenogears has a brilliant script. I don't know how you can think otherwise.
Anyway, the answer to the question is what we were promised. It's kind of like Sakaguchi. Sakaguchi created Final Fantasy...so, we know he's hot stuff. That's practically the only reason we're hyped up for Blue Dragon.
Takahashi did Xenogears. People love Xenogears. Becausae Xenogears is amazing.
Takahashi was then supposed to make a series Xenosaga. People got giddy. We wanted it to rival up with FF because, again, we love Xenogears so much. Episode I was good, offering a great presentation to something that could truly be excellent. Episode II...worse gameplay and story, but the story was still pretty good. Problem is, we see the lack of goodness in episode II, and it's easy to know why: We're missing some people.
Anyway, Episode III's the end. And we just want to really hope it'll turn out good. In fact, I'm sure some of us could care less about the gameplay (to a certain extent), we just want to be satisfied with the conclusion and not have the previous two installments feel like a waste of time.
Terrell said:Just goes to show ya... throw Nietzsche references onto anything, and the coffee-house yuppie-trolls will commence masturbating to it. :lol
The difference is pretty easy to see, though... Xenogears didn't take itself nearly as seriously, and wasn't nearly as heavy-handed.
Xenosaga's like New Age art... it's trying so hard to be different that it ends up twisted, cold and manufactured. In other words... *yawn*
SEND IN THE SMURFS!!!
hey WHAT THE HELL the left one isn't a real smurf.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah, I'm still down with Xenogears, and confused and angry at Saga. The way it should be.
FateBreaker said:
"Krelian:We shall crucify them. In the land of Golgoda, to the west of here. Collect all the broken Gears!"
*cue giant pink fluffball on a ****ing cross*
Anyway, you should be thankful Himuro
Xeno* was created as a screen, all you need to do to verify someones sanity is check their opinion of Xeno*
If they thought Momo was the coolest character ever, they're probably a closet pedo or fchan
If they thought the storyline was the best ever, they're probably rather unread (and possibly unwashed)
If they thought the gameplay was fantastic, they've probably never played anything but jrpgs
Schopenhauer
Member
The only part of XS's story that has had any substance was Cherenkov's story arc. The rest of the story so far has been a mixture of ambiguities and half finished plot threads. I hope that episode III will remedy these problems, but I am not going to get my hopes up to high.
/shrug Maybe they think that taking a philosophy class in college magically transfigures them into a second coming of Nietzsche.
/shrug Maybe they think that taking a philosophy class in college magically transfigures them into a second coming of Nietzsche.
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
Bebpo said:
that´s just wrong. Ep3 will prove it...
You should've waited till Drinky was unbanned before making this thread, Himuro
A lot of people see all the religious references thrown into the Xeno games just because the writers wanted to see how many they could cram into a 60+ hour game... and they think that the games are much deeper than they really are. It's OK, I fell for this too when I was back in HS when Xenogears first came out. But by the time Xenosaga came out I realized that, all these religious references, confusing and meandering narrative, sci-fi technobabble, etc, doesn't make for a good plot.
A lot of people see all the religious references thrown into the Xeno games just because the writers wanted to see how many they could cram into a 60+ hour game... and they think that the games are much deeper than they really are. It's OK, I fell for this too when I was back in HS when Xenogears first came out. But by the time Xenosaga came out I realized that, all these religious references, confusing and meandering narrative, sci-fi technobabble, etc, doesn't make for a good plot.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Stop going to where ever you're going to read this stuff. Fanatics in general tend to not have good reputations.
DarknessTear
Banned
I don't think any fanatic is worse than Himu.
I actually find that the people who strongly DISLIKE Xenogears (not Xenosaga) are the ones that intellectual elitists. "WELL THEY USE LOTS OF BIBLE NAMES AND TERMINOLOGY BUT IF YOU LOOK AT GENESIS 3:19 YOU'LL SEE HERE THAT IT'S USED IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CONTEXT LOL STUPID SQUARE -LAMBS-."
What's going on with the Xenosaga hate here? I've seen more Xenosaga hate threads (and even if it started positive, it went down anyway) than giant enemy crab jokes.
Xenosaga is for people who like games that have more cutscenes than gameplay and stories with lots of references to Nietzsche and stuff. Let them be, you don't have to play it don't you?
I'm quite interested in Xenosaga myself. But I see games more like interactive art instead of pure enjoyment so maybe I'm also an intellectual elitist who needs to be punched in the face. Why whine so much over games you hate instead of enjoying games that are fun for you? That looks like a better use of time and energy.
Xenosaga is for people who like games that have more cutscenes than gameplay and stories with lots of references to Nietzsche and stuff. Let them be, you don't have to play it don't you?
I'm quite interested in Xenosaga myself. But I see games more like interactive art instead of pure enjoyment so maybe I'm also an intellectual elitist who needs to be punched in the face. Why whine so much over games you hate instead of enjoying games that are fun for you? That looks like a better use of time and energy.
CountZeroInt
Banned
I thought they were just lolicons (in Japan at least, this game is notorious for that because they have some sort of obsession with 12 year old robot females and let's not go into what sort of Xenosaga fan art exists)
Joe Molotov
Member
Himuro said:
The real question is: Why are you hanging out in Xenosaga communities?! I mean seriously, dude. I kinda like Xenosaga but I know nothing of these Xenosaga communities that you speak of, nor would I hang out at them even if I did.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Joe Molotov said:
Same here. I don't even know any off hand at all.
pancakesandsex
Member
You know what the best part about the crazies who worship evangelion is? The creators themselves have said, all the religious shit in there was just to make it look cool.
i find that pretty damn funny, that many fans of the show tend to ignore that little fact.
i find that pretty damn funny, that many fans of the show tend to ignore that little fact.
There is 2 sides of a coin. Are the guys Himuro is talking about truly intellectual elistists or is Himuro just some typical american affraid of intelligence? Do i need to remember people America is the only place in the world where being an intellectual is seen negatively?
I tend to believe in you Himuro though. I remember other discussions of yours that were intelligent.
I tend to believe in you Himuro though. I remember other discussions of yours that were intelligent.
I play the games for the battle system (Ep. I) and the characters. The story does not count as philosophy in the slightest. It is Western existentialism through a Japanese philosophical lens to cater to anime fans. If someone is trying to get their philosophy from a videogame, well, I don't know what to say.
I agree with you that videogames can have emotional, intellectual, and artistic impact. I raise an eyebrow when they are considered "art" or "philosophy". But that holds true with nearly all pop culture, especially when the profit motive is the hidden underlying theme, i.e. "let's make a buck and toss a moral in the *insert pop media vehicle* so it has meaning and does something good".
Himuro said:
For examle, Brittney Spears has big artistic impact. Look at all the clones of her. Is her music art?
You are missing my point. SH 2 does not fit that mold in the strictest sense, even though Konami meant the game to be first a profit maker, second entertaiment, and who know where on the list a coherent meaning/lesson was presented to the Konami board of directors.
Himuro said:
Totally disagree. The vast musicians and professional singers would as well.
As for the coherent meaning/lesson thing, you can say the same for pretty much any story.[/QUOTE]
For most. Some no. For example, The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. There are many, many more.
Walter Matthau
Member
P90 said:
I guess you and this league of musicians have the right to define aesthetics as you see fit.
You guys are looking to deep into that Britney Spears comment.
Art is simply the result of someone that did express him/herself through X medium. Art is made for the sake expression and to transmit ourselves BEFORE making money.
Britney Spears it's the other way around, it's commerce before everything else therefore it's not art.
Art is simply the result of someone that did express him/herself through X medium. Art is made for the sake expression and to transmit ourselves BEFORE making money.
Britney Spears it's the other way around, it's commerce before everything else therefore it's not art.
Terrell said:
I still like Evangelion for it's direction. The whole plot is a whole mess and Anno couldn't write a good concept even if his life depended on it, but the mood created by a competent blend of cinematography, animation and score, in the "End of..." movie at least, is admirable. Sure, the dialogue is retarded to no end, but some of those shots still hold up.
I hear what yer sayin', Himuro.
The funny thing is that these people regurgitate Socrates thru Locke verbatim and act like they're impressive. Everytime I talk to these academic ****s I feel like Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting, "Yeah, yeah, page 95. You gonna quote the whole book for us or do you have any thoughts of your own on the subject?"
People get so caught up in philosophical studies that they forget to actually think about it the shit they're reading. Ugh.
And Xenogears is like the ultimate engine greaser for this type of stuff. I have no problem with people who are smart... in fact, I can't stand people who revile the intelligent because they're not capable of being inteligent themselves. But I also can't stand these people who are either faking it or are so caught up in it that they feel the need to tell me everytime something generally reflects something they read in Will to Power.
The funny thing is that these people regurgitate Socrates thru Locke verbatim and act like they're impressive. Everytime I talk to these academic ****s I feel like Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting, "Yeah, yeah, page 95. You gonna quote the whole book for us or do you have any thoughts of your own on the subject?"
People get so caught up in philosophical studies that they forget to actually think about it the shit they're reading. Ugh.
And Xenogears is like the ultimate engine greaser for this type of stuff. I have no problem with people who are smart... in fact, I can't stand people who revile the intelligent because they're not capable of being inteligent themselves. But I also can't stand these people who are either faking it or are so caught up in it that they feel the need to tell me everytime something generally reflects something they read in Will to Power.
It's always easier to see nothing in something, than it is to see something in nothing. One of the most disappointing aspects of the perception of this series (and the aforementioned works like Eva and GITS) is that most are far more willing to just prematurely wave the complexity off as 'pretentious' or 'trash', than dare pick up a book or search on the net for Jeudo-Christian mythology or the overarcing themes in each of Nietzsche's novels to educate themselves on the subject, and then decide how much it adds to the narrative, if at all.
Xenosaga isn't anywhere near a narrative masterpiece, but it has a shitton of clever metaphors, analogies and subtle nuances inserted into the story that I really enjoy, because they challenge me mentally, and I much prefer to work out a writer's inspiration or message for myself through quotes/imagery/themes than just having it blunted told.
Xenosaga isn't anywhere near a narrative masterpiece, but it has a shitton of clever metaphors, analogies and subtle nuances inserted into the story that I really enjoy, because they challenge me mentally, and I much prefer to work out a writer's inspiration or message for myself through quotes/imagery/themes than just having it blunted told.
Elitest Jew
Banned
This whole topic certainly strikes me as ironic, especially in light of Himuro's positive (and infantile) babblings about in the Ep. III review thread. What happened, you get banned from an XSIII site or something? Honestly, I think that most XS fans, if you recall the days of the official fan-boards, are just your average RPG-fare of sub-pedantic and normal gamers who, by definition it seems, know shit about shit. That said, I think there were small alcoves of intelllectualism dedicated to the Xeno- franchises, but time has had its way with most of them (EHQ) or turned them to different topics, though we should be grateful Lea Monde exists. Were these people perhaps "elitists?" Of this, there is little, doubt--but then again, who isn't? Just look at these forums for example, if you will. In order to even post here, you have to first put up a somewhat rare non-free e-mail address in this era of Yahoo, Hotmail, and Google, and after that, you have to go through two separate validations--one to prove that the address you provided even exists, and a second moderation queue. All the same, this does not prevent you from posting here as it likewise did not prevent you from posting on EHQ. As for pseudo-intellectualism, that's all that this brave new world is about, that's what gamers are, much like Jesus said of Heaven in the Gospel of Thomas, it's everywhere--under a rock, a stick, etc, so I know not what weight such an argument holds, especially in light of your own blunted tactics in dealing with the issue--waxing whineley on internet forums--so what, if they bother you that much, just ignore them.