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[MetatronM]

For anybody claiming that FF VI's characters and story are "terrible" because they're old, I dare you to look at the most recent mainline Final Fantasy's characters and story and claim that they are in any way improved compared to VI's at all.

 

[randomkid]

"GAF" doesn't have any taste. "GAF" is not a person.

That post is basically just a dumber version of this one though:

oh my god this thread is something else. there are many wild things you could have told me in 2005, but "someday you will read a thread on GAF which is 300 posts of people broadly agreeing that FF6 is an overrated title whose affection is driven purely by nostalgia" would not have been amongst them. oh lawdy

Same overall sentiment. "GAF" is just shorthand for the aggregate or broad agreement.

If someone tries to argue the art of FFVI is more impressive or memorable than the pre-rendered backgrounds of FFVII, I will scoff. Because there's a clear difference there in my eyes. I'm pretty confident if I walked on the street and showed the backgrounds of FFVI and FFVII to random people, they'd pick FFVII every time. It just looks a lot better. It has far, far more memorable locations and it's art direction is more impressive and cleaner.

Putting aside your preference for 3D over 2D, in your little art-by-democracy experiment, are you asking people to judge background environments only? Or are you including things like battle backgrounds, characters, monsters, bosses, summons, etc. I like the backgrounds in both games but I'm trying to figure out if you're writing off FFVI's visuals entirely or what.

 

[charlequin]

I've internalised it fine. I'm just aware that the average person isn't going to look at screens of FFVI art and FFVII art and think the former looks better, simply because it doesn't.

I don't think this stands up to close scrutiny. There are independent games being made still today that closely ape FF6's art style, down to similar choices in color palette. There's not much that closely imitates FF7's, in part because it was ambitious but incoherent already at launch and its style has adapted less well to advances of technology.

Pixel art in general has had a huge renaissance even as technology has made it technically unnecessary, and that's largely because of how effective it is as a base for stylized art - and FF6 is among the more impressive examples from its original heyday.

 

[Nerokis]

Yes, for you. Thanks. I'm aware people can have different tastes. Not really a foreign concept. In general though, most people won't prefer that (ugly) art over those pre-rendered backgrounds.

You seem to concede this is a matter of taste, and therefore subjective. You then, however, latch onto this imagined majority preference, as if it's revealing of some objective advantage. You imply that one or the other is better even beyond your specific tastes, but try to keep enough distance from that claim so that you don't actually have to back it up in concrete terms.

The 16-bit art of FFVI and the pre-rendered backgrounds of FFVII don't even necessarily warrant direct comparison. Both games have wonderful art direction, but their styles have very little in common otherwise.

 

[Aeana]

That post is basically just a dumber version of this one though:



Same overall sentiment. "GAF" is just shorthand for the aggregate or broad agreement.

But there is rarely any sort of broad agreement on this forum. Attempting to distill the opinions of tens of thousands of people into one position is absolutely silly. The reason why this thread is still going is because there IS no agreement.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Did you seriously follow up my post with this? Your argument is nothing but pap. You continue to argue that this is all subjective while at the same coming with the contention that VII is objectively better. You cannot have both.

Don't worry, they use the nostalgia excuse because they don't have a better way of arguing

 

[Verendus]

Did you seriously follow up my post with this? Your argument is nothing but pap. You continue to argue that this is all subjective while at the same time coming with the contention that VII is objectively better. You cannot have both.

I'm not trying to have both. I count this the third time you've managed to make imaginary points out of my posts. How much more wordshed?

Edit:

I don't think this stands up to close scrutiny. There are independent games being made still today that closely ape FF6's art style, down to similar choices in color palette. There's not much that closely imitates FF7's, in part because it was ambitious but incoherent already at launch and its style has adapted less well to advances of technology.

Pixel art in general has had a huge renaissance even as technology has made it technically unnecessary, and that's largely because of how effective it is as a base for stylized art - and FF6 is among the more impressive examples from its original heyday.

I don't have a problem with Pixel Art. Legend of Mana is a pretty damn beautiful game for example. I have a problem with FFVI's art which looks similar and boring. It lacks any kind of visual flair. If you look at the concept artwork of FFVI, there's a great deal of imagination there. The designs and concept of the world are interesting, but the actual game doesn't do any of that justice in my eyes.

 

[Raziel]

I don't think this stands up to close scrutiny. There are independent games being made still today that closely ape FF6's art style, down to similar choices in color palette. There's not much that closely imitates FF7's, in part because it was ambitious but incoherent already at launch and its style has adapted less well to advances of technology.

Pixel art in general has had a huge renaissance even as technology has made it technically unnecessary, and that's largely because of how effective it is as a base for stylized art - and FF6 is among the more impressive examples from its original heyday.

I think your basis for comparison misses the mark a bit.

Pixel art is imitated because it looks good, generally. It's FF6's art in particular that some find fault with, namely how it's drab and dull and samey -- doubly so, at least, compared to 7's art. So I think that all holds up to scrutiny just fine.

When you say, no one imitates 7, do you mean the method (pre-rendered art) or the art style itself? As far as the method goes, no one imitates 7 because no one does pre-rendered art anymore. They really should consider it though. Life after pre-rendered art for the JRPG/the fully 3D JRPG largely consists of very crude and simple geometry and layouts, connected by series of corridors and other such straight line nonsense, often repeated over and over copy-paste style. As for the art itself, I think the things it pulls from - cyberpunk, fantasy, post apoc - are imitated enough still today.

 

[randomkid]

But there is rarely any sort of broad agreement on this forum. Attempting to distill the opinions of tens of thousands of people into one position is absolutely silly. The reason why this thread is still going is because there IS no agreement.

I know, I know, at that point in the thread though there was enough agreement for some of us to go hmmmm. I guess I've never had issues reading "GAF" as "a lot of GAF," it's just standard dumb message board exaggeration, you can figure out what they're trying to say.

I like though that the dissents have been a little louder as this thread has gone on, usually you can predict the tone of an entire thread based on the title and the first few posts.

 

[randomkid]

I think you're basis for comparison misses the mark a bit.

Pixel art is imitated because it looks good, generally. It's FF6's art in particular that some find fault with, namely how it's drab and dull and samey -- doubly so, at least, compared to 7's art. So I think that all holds up to scrutiny just fine.

I mean, even if someone were to concede that the FF6 screens in that "ether" post were drab and dull (and I would not, I prefer "moody and evocative") why ignore all the screens and visuals where FF6 looks amazing? The ones that get imitated in lots of games with pixel art? I asked Verendus what he thought about the characters and monsters and bosses and espers and battle backgrounds but he seems to be more interested in making fun of Lin.

 

[Verendus]

I mean, even if someone were to concede that the FF6 screens in that "ether" post were drab and dull (and I would not, I prefer "moody and evocative") why ignore all the screens and visuals where FF6 looks amazing? The ones that get imitated in lots of games with pixel art? I asked Verendus what he thought about the characters and monsters and bosses and espers and battle backgrounds but he seems to be more interested in making fun of Lin.

I am, yes.

In answer to your question, I think the monster designs are fine. I dislike the world's art direction. Kefka in his God Mode (or in general) for example is a cool design, and you can see that even in the game.

Zozo, in comparison, is pretty terrible looking. It's as bland as Lightning's personality.

 

[Yasae]

I think you're basis for comparison misses the mark a bit.

Pixel art is imitated because it looks good, generally. It's FF6's art in particular that some find fault with, namely how it's drab and dull and samey -- doubly so, at least, compared to 7's art. So I think that all holds up to scrutiny just fine.

When you say, no one imitates 7, do you mean the method (pre-rendered art) or the art style itself? As far as the method goes, no one imitates 7 because no one does pre-rendered art anymore. They really should consider it though. Life after pre-rendered art for the JRPG/the fully 3D JRPG largely consists of very crude and simple geometry and layouts, connected by series of corridors and other such straight line nonsense, often repeated over and over copy-paste style. As for the art itself, I think the things it pulls from - cyberpunk, fantasy, post apoc - are imitated enough still today.

At least compare it to a SNES game. I already mentioned a few you could use.

We can state preferences or what's better or what's worse, but the fact is that if we'd had the PSX out earlier, we probably would've gotten FF VII earlier. You can't cheat and compare what basically equates to technical progress. Did the artists suddenly get more talented? Is that what resulted in "better" art? I'd say it's the expansion of artistic premise allowed by technical innovation. This is the whole basis for Square's "HD towns" argument - ultimately a sloppy oversight on their part but a real question nonetheless, i.e. when does the artistic effort undermine the end result?

The jump from SNES/Genesis and the like to PSX and N64 was a giant leap, too. I'd say bigger than the previous gen.

 

[Lasdrub]

I wish!

Where did you get those super versions of those images?

 

[Regulus Tera]

I don't have a favorite. Sometimes I think I do, but then I think about it more and it's something else. I've reached the conclusion that I have played far too many incredibly different RPGs that appeal to me in different ways to choose a singular favorite. The genre is just so diverse with so many greats.

awww I thought your favourite was a toss up between Dragon Quest V and Mother 3.

 

[charlequin]

it's just standard dumb message board exaggeration

That is exactly what is being objected to.

I don't have a problem with Pixel Art. Legend of Mana is a pretty damn beautiful game for example. I have a problem with FFVI's art which looks similar and boring. It lacks any kind of visual flair.

I have no problem with someone holding this opinion, but I don't think you could make much headway trying to establish that any kind of consensus exists around it. FF6 had a unique style at the time of its release (it used a palette pretty distinct from any other SNES game, veering heavily away from primary colors while still using a wide range of shades) that is both pretty recognizable and frequently imitated in the years since. It's one of the most widely influential titles ever released in terms of pixel art style and has long been considered one of the consensus best-looking SNES games.

(And this is not to bag on FF7's style either -- the actual realization in the game is extremely inconsistent, but the visual design of FF7 at its best is pretty spectacular.)

When you say, no one imitates 7, do you mean the method (pre-rendered art) or the art style itself?

Both, actually. People have largely abandoned pre-rendered backgrounds and the particular feel that VII's art conveyed.

In terms of design, 7 is much more of an anachronism than 6 -- the particular type of fantasy/modern juxtaposition in the character design has a very "90s" feel to it (that reflects FF7's position in the zeitgeist when it was released) and many of its core influences are much less prevalent in popular sci-fi and gaming now than they were at the time.

 

[Y2Kev]

In terms of design, 7 is much more of an anachronism than 6 -- the particular type of fantasy/modern juxtaposition in the character design has a very "90s" feel to it (that reflects FF7's position in the zeitgeist when it was released) and many of its core influences are much less prevalent in popular sci-fi and gaming now than they were at the time.

What do you think releasing today is evocative of FF6? All told, the games have a lot in common stylistically and I'm not sure one is a more common "drawing source" (lolz ff8 joke) than the other.

Midgar is obviously one thing; nothing released since then has been as stylistically original or as consistent. It's probably the generation's signature. But outside of that, FF7 really reminds me a lot of FF6 both pre- and post- world ruin moments.

To the "game has been eclipsed today" people: I didn't play FF6 until a few years ago via the awful PS1 version and I still really enjoyed it. It has a story worth telling, it has nice music, and nice graphics. It's a fun game. Why wouldn't you want to play it?

 

[Raziel]

I mean, even if someone were to concede that the FF6 screens in that "ether" post were drab and dull (and I would not, I prefer "moody and evocative") why ignore all the screens and visuals where FF6 looks amazing? The ones that get imitated in lots of games with pixel art? I asked Verendus what he thought about the characters and monsters and bosses and espers and battle backgrounds but he seems to be more interested in making fun of Lin.

I like the enemy sprites once you get to the World of Ruin, Kefka's final forms are pretty spectacular. There are probably a handful of other standout images but that's basically boiling it down to all I'm enamored with - really, with FF6 as a whole.

At least compare it to a SNES game. I already mentioned a few you could use.

We can state preferences or what's better or what's worse, but the fact is that if we'd had the PSX out earlier, we probably would've gotten FF VII earlier. You can't cheat and compare what basically equates to technical progress. Did the artists suddenly get more talented? Is that what resulted in "better" art? I'd say it's the expansion of artistic premise allowed by technical innovation. This is the whole basis for Square's "HD towns" argument - ultimately a sloppy oversight on their part but a real question nonetheless, i.e. when does the artistic effort undermine the end result?

The jump from SNES/Genesis and the like to PSX and N64 was a giant leap, too. I'd say bigger than the previous gen.

Chrono Trigger. It's a much more varied and aesthetically pleasing world. I don't think its just about the styles either, CT even does drab and dire better (post apoc time period, snowed over time period).

Really though, I think FF6's art is blah just compared to nothing at all. Like, just evaluating it completely on it's own, separate from anything.

Make no mistake, comparing 6 to 7 is unfair, but I responded to those that feel 6 stands up to it despite all that, so it's all fair game then. 7's detailed and varied art I feel create superior mood and sense of place. I think it's a prime example of utilizing better tech to take the types familiar images and settings that make up these games, and cranking it up to 11.

Both, actually. People have largely abandoned pre-rendered backgrounds and the particular feel that VII's art conveyed.

In terms of design, 7 is much more of an anachronism than 6 -- the particular type of fantasy/modern juxtaposition in the character design has a very "90s" feel to it (that reflects FF7's position in the zeitgeist when it was released) and many of its core influences are much less prevalent in popular sci-fi and gaming now than they were at the time.

Well, I addressed it as it applies to both. People don't do pre-rendered art (though they should look at it). Fantasy and burned out post apoc too are still very much alive and well; and though cyberpunk may not be as prevalent, I think there's still an appetite for it.

As far as being kind of an anachronism or otherwise dated in how the world is dressed up, disagree. 7 has oft-debated touches of cyberpunk, mainly in how it mixes sci-fi and rural, but it's not really overly concerned with or excited by an emerging "cyberspace" or "hackers" that would make it very late 90's. The military and evil corporations have those big cream colored CRTs at their desks and maybe a couple of cell phones. Everyone else lives in a rural setting. It's relatively tempered.

To the "game has been eclipsed today" people: I didn't play FF6 until a few years ago via the awful PS1 version and I still really enjoyed it. It has a story worth telling, it has nice music, and nice graphics. It's a fun game. Why wouldn't you want to play it?

I think it's pretty slow and plodding, and just plain boring at times. The encounter rate is pretty high. I really really really dislike the stat building system, that has you constantly monitoring your experience points and shuffling espers; between that and the party switching moments, there's a lot of menu fumbling in general. Most of the characters don't do anything for me, Kefka just leaves me wanting more (in a bad way). And, has been discussed too much for even me at this point, I don't like the majority of the art or look of the game.

 

[Raziel]

You have a very skewed view of FF7's world. Go to Cosa Del Sol, Rocket Town, Junon, and Golden Saucer. Junon has clubs littered with TVs, the hotel in Cosa del Sol is anything but rural.

Make it "most" everyone else, then. Junon is a military city built on top of a village and Golden Saucer is also built on top of a village, surrounded by wasteland, a junkyard town, and a burned out prison. Rocket town consists of like 4 houses, what am I supposed to be seeing there?

 

[charlequin]

What do you think releasing today is evocative of FF6?

Pretty much everyone who does throwback pixel art games bites off FF6's style pretty aggressively -- To The Moon, Zeboyd, literally all the default sprites that ship with every new edition of RPG Maker, etc.

EDIT: Aeana wisely pointed out to me that PARPG3 literally has a sprite directly based on Locke's...

Also, I mean, I think FF6's character design approach -- take fantasy archetypes and tack on some fancy complications to make them stand out -- is pretty common these days. FF12 has a pretty similar approach in 3D; Ezio could be an FF6 character.

Midgar is obviously one thing; nothing released since then has been as stylistically original or as consistent. It's probably the generation's signature. But outside of that, FF7 really reminds me a lot of FF6 both pre- and post- world ruin moments.

Yeah, a lot of the later parts of FF7 are just general-purpose fantasy-with-sci-fi-edges and in that sense are very similar to FF6; I mostly mean Midgar, Shinra, etc.

Fantasy and burned out post apoc too are still very much alive and well; and though cyberpunk may not be as prevalent, I think there's still an appetite for it.

Most post-apoc today looks very different than FF7 though. Midgar has this particular kind of neon-nightmare quality that comes out of stuff like Blade Runner filtered back through Akira; nowadays people are much more likely to signal "apocalypse" with brown and grey everywhere (kind of like FF6 did, heh.)

As far as being kind of an anachronism or otherwise dated in how the world is dressed up, disagree. 7 has oft-debated touches of cyberpunk, mainly in how it mixes sci-fi and rural, but it's not really overly concerned with or excited by an emerging "cyberspace" or "hackers" that would make it very late 90's.

It's definitely no Soul Hackers -- like, it's not so 90s that it loops around into easy mockery -- but I do think it dates itself in a lot of ways. The environmental focus, the character outfits and hairdos, the particular type of evil-corporation story being told -- all that stuff fits in with 90s cultural trends but would stand out pretty aggressively now. (Once you hit disc 2 the fantasy elements take the foreground, for better and worse -- it's much less striking and unique, but also less linked to its time, IMO.)

 

[Raziel]

Most post-apoc today looks very different than FF7 though. Midgar has this particular kind of neon-nightmare quality that comes out of stuff like Blade Runner filtered back through Akira; nowadays people are much more likely to signal "apocalypse" with brown and grey everywhere (kind of like FF6 did, heh.)

Yeah, you're right about that. It's really too bad.

Again though I don't know how dated that would make it, since I believe there's still an appetite for that type of setting. People lose it when something comes along about which they can say, "It's like Blade Runner!!"

It's definitely no Soul Hackers -- like, it's not so 90s that it loops around into easy mockery -- but I do think it dates itself in a lot of ways. The environmental focus, the character outfits and hairdos, the particular type of evil-corporation story being told -- all that stuff fits in with 90s cultural trends but would stand out pretty aggressively now. (Once you hit disc 2 the fantasy elements take the foreground, for better and worse -- it's much less striking and unique, but also less linked to its time, IMO.)

Hm, I would still disagree with most of this. He has anime hair, but Cloud's outfit seemed to try to evoke "Mad Max" (as do pockets of the world, as does the Advent Children makeover - really, those movies seemed to have struck a chord with Japan as much as America), and the characters outfits are often cited as some of the more understated, if not entirely the most realistic, outfits in the series. I'll give you Barret though. And the "Evil Empire" is a very common theme that runs through a lot of popular fiction, through a lot of RPGs, and through a lot of the FF series - I don't think it dates it to any specific era.

It mostly uses modern fantasy as its setting. Everything in these shots are things that could easily exist in our world today. That's what makes FFVII distinctive from say, VI, which has castles that go under ground or Soul Hackers. VII's cyber punk leanings are small, and barely even worth noting.

All of this is outside of Midgar.

Nothing about this screams rural or cyberpunk, or like Kev thinks, steampunk. That said, there are rural villages in VII (Kalm, Chocobo Farm, Corel, Wutai). But much like our world today, there are different pockets of living situation among different people. That doesn't mean the most of the game outside of Midgar is rural though.

Yes, I give you Costa del Sol. It's a beach resort made for rich people. You can even buy a villa for 300,000(?) gil. Golden Saucer, same concept. It's a casino built on a reservation.

And the military and evil corporations get to live very swanky, yes, I see that.

That said, there are rural villages in VII (Kalm, Chocobo Farm, Corel, Wutai). But much like our world today, there are different pockets of living situation among different people. That doesn't mean the most of the game outside of Midgar is rural though.

And Nibelheim, Cosmo Canyon, Mideel, Fort Condor, Bone Village, Gongaga, and yes, Rocket Town. Safe to say I strongly disagree with the things you are saying.

 

[Megidolaon]

I guess this is as good a thread to ask as any. So I've only beat VI once years ago, like maybe 8 years ago. I remember liking it, though.

I'm thinking of replaying it again on a portable to take to work. I've heard VI Advance has some extra content. Is it the best version? What is the new content? Does the PSN version have this content?

 

[Lumpy Onion]

This thread made me realize I only own the GBA and PS1 versions of this game. Picked it up today on Wii VC and it feels so natural. I like the GBA version but hate playing on the tiny DS Light screen, and the PS1 version is awful. This is probably the best way to play it and brings back memories of when I owned it on SNES.

Just reached the 3 way between Terra, Locke, and Sabin. Discarding Edgar's arrow tool is making things more interesting. It forces me to use bio and noise tools instead of blasting them with arrows. Will probably ditch the drill, flash, and Ultima weapon later. I also plan on following strict Job specific esper and spell choices. ie: Shadow uses death/bio/quake, Edgar uses Time magic, etc. Feels mores structured than the jack of all trades you often end up with. Might be missing out on a lot of the Esper stat bonuses but I will survive.

The music in this game still sounds magical especially hearing it now on a decent sound system. The song that plays when Terra encounters the frozen esper in Narsh gives me chills. I feel like I have been doing myself a disservice playing lesser versions these last couple of years.

 

[CharminUltra]

Why do I get the feeling this thread heavily influenced the creation of the "Leave my nostalgia alone!" thread?

Talking about nostalgia, I played FFVI around the time B:TAS was being aired and at the time I just couldn't help thinking Kefka was Square's attempt at a Joker-like villain, but without all the substance that made the Joker awesome.

 

[CorvoSol]

I think your basis for comparison misses the mark a bit.

Pixel art is imitated because it looks good, generally. It's FF6's art in particular that some find fault with, namely how it's drab and dull and samey -- doubly so, at least, compared to 7's art. So I think that all holds up to scrutiny just fine.

Can I ask what exactly we're referring to here? Because if by "art" we mean official artwork for the game, then no, there is NOTHING drab or dull or samey to it. Yoshitaka Amano loved FF6, and it shows in his artwork:

None of that looks drab or dull to me. And I know this cannot refer to Nomura's work on the game, as his monster designs were some of the best the series would ever know:

Or are we referring to the environments? Because that's a laughable claim. Narshe is a very different place from Jidoor, which in turn is different from Vector and Figaro Castle. Even in the World of Ruin, Kefka's Tower is different from Fanatic's Tower, and while sure, caves look the same, here's a shocker for you: a cave is a cave is a cave. No cave in this series has looked wildly distinguishable from another. Not the ones in Four, not the ones in Seven, and not the ones in Twelve.

What, then, oh what is the art we are referring to that looks "Drab, dull, and samey"? It cannot be character design, it cannot be official artwork, it cannot be in game artwork, battle backgrounds, nor monsters, so what?

Is it that the villages use similar tile sets? Because they're all Victorian in style? That caves are caves and look too similar? Because to say this is to ignore the presence of all the wildly different locals in the game for the sake of your argument. One can boil down and oversimplify locals outside of Midgar in FFVII in much the same way.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

The openness of the later part of me game has always plagued my replays of this title.

But the gameplay and story behind it made VI one of most enjoyable games that I've played. The first time you set out into the world was a very strong feeling. Ominous and even a bit helpless. In was such a contrast to the hopeful adventure of the first half -- that contrast is what I think I would list as its strong feature and maybe the best game that I've seen at doing so.

 

[Forceatowulf]

I'm having a hard time with it because of the technical limitations. The long pauses before you can open the menu and it some times taking waaaaay too long to reach a save spot in some areas has turned me off so much.

I also really dislike switching between so many god damn characters. A game does not need this many motherfucking characters.... jesus.

People are always on SE's nuts to remake FF7. I would much rather they remade FF6 so I can finish the fucking thing.

 

[TheExodu5]

There are some wonderful posts in this thread. Thank you GAF.

 

[CharminUltra]

I'm having a hard time with it because of the technical limitations. The long pauses before you can open the menu and it some times taking waaaaay too long to reach a save spot in some areas has turned me off so much.

I also really dislike switching between so many god damn characters. A game does not need this many motherfucking characters.... jesus.

People are always on SE's nuts to remake FF7. I would much rather they remade FF6 so I can finish the fucking thing.

THIS, but only kinda. I'm not convinced today's Square can do a FFVI (or VII) remake right. IF they make one though, I would like to see them streamline the roster a bit (like you said, too many characters- some redundant) and make the second half of the game not feel like a drag compared to the first.

 

[Lasdrub]

As a kid I thought those were so cool that I printed them out and colored them.

 

[PROOP]

FFVI and VII are both great games that can easily belong in any JRPG fan's top 10 lists. While nostalgia might be a contributing factor for people's opinions of both games, it does not take away that these games were not just good for their time, but just damn good games for any time.

Each game pushed the genre forward in terms of graphics, storytelling, character development, and what constitutes as a JRPG story.

FFVI was the culmination of every RPG that came before it, and captured everything great about 8/16-bit RPGs into one of the most polished and memorable games of that generation (only eclipsed by Chrono Trigger).

Then VII came along and pushed JRPGs into the western mainstream with its once revolutionary story telling and presentation, which was so engrossing and powerful that it made me cry -- a first for videogames for me.

Each game had it's own fleshed-out sub-plots that came with their optional recruit-able characters.

What I don't get is this whole either/or argument some fucktards are making in this thread. Both were great, and both deserve remakes.

 

[Auron_Kale]

I do like FF6, beat it on the SNES as a kid but I've been trying constantly to replay my GBA copy and really feel like it's a total chore as well.

There are great moments in this game and I love the cast but I really do find the game just "okay".

Maybe I'll try again, but we'll see if I can finally finish a replay.

 

[Mzo]

I have the same problem. I think because the narrative is so tight in the first half that the meandering open-endedness of the second half leaves you cold, even if there are still a lot of great story beats left.

Just never clicked with the World of Ruin, personally.

 

[ULTROS!]

The boss designs in FFVI are incredible, especially the final section:

Although I do wonder how this will translate to 3D if ever they do a remake...

 

[Yasae]

Chrono Trigger. It's a much more varied and aesthetically pleasing world. I don't think its just about the styles either, CT even does drab and dire better (post apoc time period, snowed over time period).

Really though, I think FF6's art is blah just compared to nothing at all. Like, just evaluating it completely on it's own, separate from anything.

Make no mistake, comparing 6 to 7 is unfair, but I responded to those that feel 6 stands up to it despite all that, so it's all fair game then. 7's detailed and varied art I feel create superior mood and sense of place. I think it's a prime example of utilizing better tech to take the types familiar images and settings that make up these games, and cranking it up to 11.

It's a bit odd how all three of these games are from the same company (if not the same teams), though. It feels like FF6's drabness - CorvoSol and ULTROS! I love you both but come on - is more an intentional move than one precluded by lack of talent.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

If you're going to post entire backdrops of towns from FF7 then you ought to post entire tile maps of towns from FF6--that or compare actual screenshots of both. Here's an example of a full tile map of the first town in FF6, Narshe (unfortunately it doesn't include the animated steam and engine sprites):

FF6 was an extraordinarily handsome game when it came out, approaching the pinnacle of what could be achieved with an SNES on a ~3MB cartridge. This doesn't detract from how attractive FF7 is--I just think it's unfair to dismiss the former with asymmetrical comparisons.

 

[Nightstick11]

Some of you making the "bu-bu-but nostalgia" argument are hilarious. You act as if modern games are better than past game by virtue of some variation of "the march of progress."

Is Iron Man a better movie than the Shawshank Redemption because computer graphics showcase better "story-telling"? Is Twilight better than Romeo and Juliet due to "modern dialogue"?

You float the idea that, asides from nostalgia, gaming classics have no objective way of being actually better than modern games. This is absurd. Tell me what modern games in their respective genres even come close to Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy VI or WarCraft III or Alpha Centauri or Super Mario World or repeat ad infinitum.

 

[fmcato]

Amusing to see screenshot comparisons between a 4 MB cartridge SNES game and a 3 * 650 MB PSX one.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

Amusing to see screenshot comparisons between a 4 MB cartridge SNES game and a 3 * 650 MB PSX one.

3MB. Chrono Trigger was 4MB. 1MB is significant in that era, so the distinction is important.

 

[Weltall Zero]

.

Yeah, let's compare upscaled nearest-pixel-interpolated screens of FFVI with composite, animated maps of FFVII comprising several pre-rendered screens and no real-time graphics including characters. That's surely a fair comparison.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I am now getting into the world of ruin and starting to pull my party back together. Have to say the game really grew on me this time, and I'm loving the cast, glad I stuck it out. Best FF ever? Probably not, but it's up there, we'll see what the final stretch does for me.

 

[orioto]

Wow people are really comparing FFVI and FFVII graphics there ??

At least if we play this game i could say FFVI is the pinnacle of its style, while FFVII is a really early cgi attempt and could look way better, as VIII and IX showed after that.

People really don't realize how FFVI is damn sharp and detailed for a 16 bit game.
And objectively, monsters looks way more detailed and beautiful than FFVI ones Ok they don't move..

 

[Yasae]

Wow people are really comparing FFVI and FFVII graphics there ??

At least if we play this game i could say FFVI is the pinnacle of its style, while FFVII is a really early cgi attempt and could look way better, as VIII and IX showed after that.

People really don't realize how FFVI is damn sharp and detailed for a 16 bit game.
And objectively, monsters looks way more detailed and beautiful than FFVI ones Ok they don't move..

FF IX

 

[Fou-Lu]

Party is reassembled, some Magicite to get and what have you, then I'm in for the final stretch. I've gone from not even being able to finish the game to loving it. Still not sure where I would rank it in the series.

 

[Hours Left]

Party is reassembled, some Magicite to get and what have you, then I'm in for the final stretch. I've gone from not even being able to finish the game to loving it. Still not sure where I would rank it in the series.

I'm glad you found your hook for this game. It really is a fantastic entry in the series IMO.

 

[Fou-Lu]

It really is about the characters, I found the ones I liked and stuck around for them, I've grown kind of attached to the other characters as well, but a lot of the cast is still kind of weak to me.

 

[Hours Left]

It really is about the characters, I found the ones I liked and stuck around for them, I've grown kind of attached to the other characters as well, but a lot of the cast is still kind of weak to me.

I'm pleased my advice panned out. Enjoy the last part, some pretty epic stuff is yet to come.

 

[jaxword]

For anybody claiming that FF VI's characters and story are "terrible" because they're old, I dare you to look at the most recent mainline Final Fantasy's characters and story and claim that they are in any way improved compared to VI's at all.

I'll say this. A lot of the characterizations and love for the story are because people's imaginations filled in the gaps in the writing. FF6's story is rather contrived at times--though all of the FFs have this flaw to some degree.

It's like comparing the novel to the movie. The novel relies on your imagination to create their body language, voices, faces, emotions, etc. The movie shows you all of those.

That's why FF6 is so fondly remembered, it's the last of the "novel" Final Fantasy games before body language, voices, and full-body videos entered the directing.

They totally explain (or, I guess, strongly hint) that he's the result of magic experimentation gone horribly wrong, though.

Should probably point out that they don't explain this at all--it's mentioned literally (yes literally) once in the entire game by one random NPC. Other than that, the fact that Kefka even WAS experimented is not mentioned anywhere in the story proper, either. You could play the entire game without a single line of dialogue about Kefka.

I've noticed something interesting in FF discussions; whenever this is pointed out, a lot of people then use the opposite argument, that he's a Heath Ledger-like Joker, no origin, no explanation, and that makes him better.

Funny, that.

 

[Eccocid]

FFVI starts really good, i loved all the characters at the early parts of the game but when game started to throw some weird party members to me, like that small painter girl,her old grand pa or something, some weird animal, another weird animal kid, a mog and more bizarre characters which felt like filler characters in Chrono Trigger i lost interest.

I wish FFVI cast was made of only 5 or maybe max 6 characters and story would focus on them.

 

[Yaboosh]

World of Balance is Mass Effect 1. World of Ruin is Mass Effect 2.

I love FFVI, my favorite game of all time.

 

[charlequin]

Other than that, the fact that Kefka even WAS experimented is not mentioned anywhere in the story proper, either.

But there are a number of other places where they make it clear that the Empire's generals as a class were given treatments to artificially grant them magical ability (which is also why Celes can use magic natively.)