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Why do men keep putting me in the Girlfriend-zone?

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Shouta said:
True, better communication would solve it but that's a skill all parties lack.



Uh, it's misleading based on his interpretation of her actions? As I pointed out, men tend to view intimate, 1 on 1 interaction with the opposite sex, to be a very close or the same as when you're romantically involved with someone. In the scenario in the piece, she's doing stuff with him that he can see as something he'd do with his girlfriend but she sees him as a friend and she never states so.

There's no ill-intent on her part but it ended up misleading to the guy because her actions don't jive with his view of what pursuing someone romantically is. It really isn't clear cut from a third party perspective. You have to view it from the lens of either party then step back and state it. The actions from our perspective and her's are benign but to a guy in that situation, it looks misleading.

It's why I brought up my question before. What would she do differently with a guy she was actually interested in if sex and the associated stuff wasn't there?

If the friendship isn't clearly stated by either party, they can only run on their perception of the actions towards them. It's really a situation where you can't say one party or the other is bad, really. It's just we kind of muck the situation up when discussing it.



Don't feel too bad but I think most men can't understand what women are actually thinking when it comes to who they're actually attracted to unless it's getting beat over their heads or they get lucky when they approach someone. If it were only as simple as her coming up to you and saying, "Hey, I think you're kind cute, wanna talk?" It does happen, just not enough.
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This. From what I can tell men and women have a completely different idea of what it means to be friends. I have like maybe 6 people I would actually call friends, and I haven't talked to half of them in months or more, but I know that if I ever need anything they'd be there for me and vice versa. Can't recall ever having any 1 on 1 intimate discussions about personal matters with ANY of them, that is not something most men do with even their closest friends.

Which is another reason it is hard for men and women to be friends, I'm 'friendly' with plenty of women(I get along with pretty much everyone most of the time), but if I ever treat them like I treat the guys I consider true friends they think they did something to piss me off or get offended that I don't think highly enough of them to call or something. It' can be exhausting at times.
 
iamblades said:
This. From what I can tell men and women have a completely different idea of what it means to be friends. I have like maybe 6 people I would actually call friends, and I haven't talked to half of them in months or more, but I know that if I ever need anything they'd be there for me and vice versa. Can't recall ever having any 1 on 1 intimate discussions about personal matters with ANY of them, that is not something most men do with even their closest friends.

Which is another reason it is hard for men and women to be friends, I'm 'friendly' with plenty of women(I get along with pretty much everyone most of the time), but if I ever treat them like I treat the guys I consider true friends they think they did something to piss me off or get offended that I don't think highly enough of them to call or something. It' can be exhausting at times.
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So your gal pals are high strung.
 
Call me crazy but when I'm out and alone with a girl, I actually know whether it's a date or not.



Get it together, guys. Shit is not that hard.
 
iamblades said:
This. From what I can tell men and women have a completely different idea of what it means to be friends. I have like maybe 6 people I would actually call friends, and I haven't talked to half of them in months or more, but I know that if I ever need anything they'd be there for me and vice versa. Can't recall ever having any 1 on 1 intimate discussions about personal matters with ANY of them, that is not something most men do with even their closest friends.

Which is another reason it is hard for men and women to be friends, I'm 'friendly' with plenty of women(I get along with pretty much everyone most of the time), but if I ever treat them like I treat the guys I consider true friends they think they did something to piss me off or get offended that I don't think highly enough of them to call or something. It' can be exhausting at times.
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Real talk.
 
iamblades said:
This. From what I can tell men and women have a completely different idea of what it means to be friends. I have like maybe 6 people I would actually call friends, and I haven't talked to half of them in months or more, but I know that if I ever need anything they'd be there for me and vice versa. Can't recall ever having any 1 on 1 intimate discussions about personal matters with ANY of them, that is not something most men do with even their closest friends.

Which is another reason it is hard for men and women to be friends, I'm 'friendly' with plenty of women(I get along with pretty much everyone most of the time), but if I ever treat them like I treat the guys I consider true friends they think they did something to piss me off or get offended that I don't think highly enough of them to call or something. It' can be exhausting at times.
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I can do it with some of my closest friends. I've had some good friends that I've had some big life conversations that have lasted waaaay into the night. I remember a couple times in college my best friend and I just talked about life and didn't look at the clock and suddenly it was like 5 in the morning. So, guys can do that sort of stuff.

Oddly enough I feel much more able to have more intimate discussions with women. I just feel more comfortable around them, I guess.
 
badcrumble said:
Yrs4gj0.gif
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This needs a quote that is possibly the funniest thing I've seen in weeks.
 
Devolution said:
Um, the whole point of friendship and relationships is communication and if some people fail to do this properly that's their fault. You want something to be a date, make it a date, make it known. I've gone out with friends alone on all kinds of adventures. No one was under the impression these were dates. We both have fun with friends of the opposite sex who are straight without any "romance" or "tension." It's entirely possible. People who can't do this sure like to project a lot of misery on to everyone else.
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A lot of folks communicate directly (on general matters) and don't get their message heard because just don't listen. It happens all the time. I mean, I don't disagree that you should take responsibility and speak yourself but the reality of the situation is that, it isn't always the case.

It's true that someone should state immediately from the onset that they're interested but that doesn't cover the full spectrum of possibilities. So lamblasting folks for something that that may or may not be their exact situation is kind of silly.

For the idiots that actually think that they can get into a girl's pants by becoming their friend first, go for it. But going the almost dead-end that is that method is probably punishment enough. =P

RDreamer said:
I can do it with some of my closest friends. I've had some good friends that I've had some big life conversations that have lasted waaaay into the night. I remember a couple times in college my best friend and I just talked about life and didn't look at the clock and suddenly it was like 5 in the morning. So, guys can do that sort of stuff.

Oddly enough I feel much more able to have more intimate discussions with women. I just feel more comfortable around them, I guess.
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Big life conversations aren't that rare amongst guys. It happens with most male friends, in fact though the frequency may be low. But how men and women approach and handle the day to day interaction tends to be pretty different, in general. It's kind of the view of it all that is really different. I'm sure there are articles detailing this but I don't have the time right now to scour for those articles.
 
iamblades said:
Can't recall ever having any 1 on 1 intimate discussions about personal matters with ANY of them, that is not something most men do with even their closest friends.
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That's not a gender thing. People use friends for different things. I have 1-on-1 conversations with all of my friends, be it male or female. That's more or less my definition of "friend."

Shouta said:
A lot of folks communicate directly (on general matters) and don't get their message heard because just don't listen. It happens all the time. I mean, I don't disagree that you should take responsibility and speak yourself but the reality of the situation is that, it isn't always the case.
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I agree, however I take a more pragmatic view on the subject and think that if I can't communicate with her properly because she's not listening or doesn't understand, I probably wouldn't have a good time dating her.
 
hardcastlemccormick said:
Not bad, just stupid. Confessing your love is a lose-lose situation; it won't work and everybody feels like shit. It just so happens that my operational definition of "stupidity" is someone who willingly chooses a lose-lose situation.
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Which brings me to this question: Should more women more often nip these feelings in the bud? I'm not saying they have too, but I imagine most are aware well in advance before the man confesses.
 
Fiction said:
What people don't understand about my posts is that I think it's wrong for a guy to befriend a girl, call himself her friend, with the sole intention of 'wearing her down' and 'making her fall in love him'. It's dishonest. Yes, feelings can change, and that's all well and good, but entering into a relationship with someone who thinks you are just their friend when you have intentions on moving it to the next level is disingenuous.

Basically, it breaks down to if you like a girl, tell her. Don't pretend to be friends with her just to get close.
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And I'd bet 93.25% or more of "Friendzone" cases aren't this.
 
Plywood said:
Which brings me to this question: Should more women more often nip these feelings in the bud? I'm not saying they have too, but I imagine most are aware well in advance before the man confesses.
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I am almost never aware. It is an unfortunate blind spot of mine. :< Whenever I think a guy is interested, he's just being flirty (I don't flirt so perhaps I am more susceptible to this?) and whenever a guy is interested I think he's just being a bud.

The Adder said:
And I'd bet 93.25% or more of "Friendzone" cases aren't this.
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It not being the majority does not mean it should be swept under the rug and ignored, though. It is still a problem for people. Guys should want to root out this problem as well, so their intentions aren't confused for being that other kind.
 
Lissar said:
I am almost never aware. It is an unfortunate blind spot of mine. :< Whenever I think a guy is interested, he's just being flirty (I don't flirt so perhaps I am more susceptible to this?) and whenever a guy is interested I think he's just being a bud.
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Well then I suppose the ones that are aware, are the ones that string those men along.
 
I've been following the thread and thought I'd just add my two pence.

Up until about eight months ago I was the kind of typical 'nice guy' who got 'friend-zoned' (I've never worn a fedora btw) and I could never comprehend this. I've realized later that this happened because all my life I'd only really been friends with guys, because I was just too shy to talk to girls for the most part. I don't know why, but I just couldn't do it. So I guess that I'd never really learned how to be sociable with women. Any kind of friendliness I'd interpret as they were attracted to me, which obviously caused a lot of problems with any relationship I had with women.

I got better slowly and developed friendships with women, but never 1 on 1 unless I was interested in them romantically. Again, not especially a great thing, but I don't think that would make me a terrible person, only someone who didn't have a fucking clue what I was doing when it came to women, and having a certain anxiety talking to them. I always found it much easier to socialize with women that were taken rather than single, because there wouldn't be any other intentions just like with my guy friends.

It's taken me a long time, and moving to another country to stop acting like this. I have now found for the first time that the majority of my friends where I am now are women. I do feel though that the reason for this was at that time I'd been hurt so many times (every single time I'd pursued someone) that I decided to not pursue women (advice from Brent Smith) and not get emotionally involved in anyone until I met someone who I knew was into me. So the girls I've met here very easily became my friends and nothing more. I eventually have found a girlfriend now because of this completely different mindset, and I have remained close friends with these other girls too.

So I am now in full favour of the opinion that guys and girls can be friends, and can become close without it becoming a romantic relationship. However, I think that it's still very easy for anyone to interpret any kind of 1 on 1 activity as possibly being more than friendship. I think it's both parties responsibility to make intentions known that it's just as friends. Unfortunately there's a lot of shy guys that want to get more comfortable with a girl, but don't listen to a girl when they have said 'we're doing this just as friends' because they're so tied up in their fantasy world of being with this person and hoping it'll become something more. I have been that guy. There's also girls that never say this, will form a friendship with a guy and use him to unload all their personal issues, lead a guy on by saying one thing and then at a later date twisting words and saying they meant another. I've experienced this too.

So, if you're a guy that's into a girl that's your friend, you've gotta make your intentions known quickly. When you ask them to do something and they say 'just friends', then listen. If they don't, then you've gotta find out. My girl asked me out, she just said 'So are you dating anyone right now?' and then 'Who would you like to date?'. I said her. It was that simple. If you get rejected, don't waste time and move on, and decide whether you can or want to still be friends with this person.

tl;dr: From my experience I've learned you've gotta act fast. Being a friend first is good, but how long are you gonna wait around being just friends? Get what you want, or find out you can't have it sooner rather than later.
 
Plywood said:
Well then I suppose the ones that are aware, are the ones that string those men along.
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Much like I don't think most guys who don't confess their feelings right away are being particularly malicious, I don't think most girls who realize the guy has feelings but do not say anything are being malicious or stringing the guy along on purpose. It's mostly just social awkwardness and an unwillingness to rock the boat. Both sides are thinking, "If I say something, it would just get awkward. That would be horrible." Humans being social creatures and all, they are unwilling to put themselves on the line for social death. It's understandable, even if awkward for all parties involved the longer it is put off.
 
Lissar said:
Much like I don't think most guys who don't confess their feelings right away are being particularly malicious, I don't think most girls who realize the guy has feelings but do not say anything are being malicious or stringing the guy along on purpose. It's mostly just social awkwardness and an unwillingness to rock the boat. Both sides are thinking, "If I say something, it would just get awkward. That would be horrible." Humans being social creatures and all, they are unwilling to put themselves on the line for social death. It's understandable, even if awkward for all parties involved the longer it is put off.
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Well said.
 
Lissar said:
Much like I don't think most guys who don't confess their feelings right away are being particularly malicious, I don't think most girls who realize the guy has feelings but do not say anything are being malicious or stringing the guy along on purpose. It's mostly just social awkwardness and an unwillingness to rock the boat. Both sides are thinking, "If I say something, it would just get awkward. That would be horrible." Humans being social creatures and all, they are unwilling to put themselves on the line for social death. It's understandable, even if awkward for all parties involved the longer it is put off.
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You understand much, Jedi
 
Lissar said:
It not being the majority does not mean it should be swept under the rug and ignored, though. It is still a problem for people. Guys should want to root out this problem as well, so their intentions aren't confused for being that other kind.
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Considering the majority conversation from the half of GAF that takes issue with the concept, and indeed the perspective of the article itself, treats it as if that's the only reason the situation arises, my post isn't about sweeping it under the rug, it's about pointing out a fallacy.

Haly said:
I'm curious what these other cases are like.
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"This girls cool, I want to hang out with her!"

"This girl is cooler than I thought, I like spending time with her."

"This girl is pretty damn amazing, I look forward to seeing her more each day."

"Oh shit..."
 
The Adder said:
Considering the majority conversation from the half of GAF that takes issue with the concept, and indeed the perspective of the article itself, treats it as if that's the only reason the situation arises, my post isn't about sweeping it under the rug, it's about pointing out a fallacy.
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That hasn't been how I've been reading this conversation at all, but that might be my own feelings towards the subject coloring my perception. Others would have to chime in on what they meant to get a clearer picture, I suppose.
 
My main point being the following:

Ladies - He's not trying to be some sort of emotional Solid Snake. The majority of them didn't get her by some sort of intentional design. They stumbled into it because they WERE/ARE your friends and that time you spent together lead to him feeling something more than that. The fabled few that did have those feelings before getting involved with you I can say with some confidence probably didn't enter this friendship with some grand master plan to get into your pants.

Gentlemen - Category 1? Buckle in, it's going to be a bumpy ride and there's not a god damned thing you can do about it. Category 2? Not the right approach. To both? The only thing to do now is pull the band-aid off as soon and as fast as possible and hope the bleeding stops soon. If it doesn't, she's not doing it to hurt you. She's not using you. She didn't know, it seemed obvious to you, but she's not you.

A little bit of putting myself out there:

I've been category 1 before. I've had it work out and I've had it not work out. It doesn't help that, for me at least, attraction doesn't even begin to kick in until I've talked, and I mean REALLY talked, with someone. Or at least heard them go on about something they care about passionately. Physical attraction is a thing for me, obviously, but I'm far more picky about and drawn to personality types and intelligence than body types. And generally speaking you don't get to know someone like that by seeing them across the room. Anf if you're not particularly attracted to someone, you're not going to ask them out, are you? Also generally speaking, the way you're guaranteed to get to know someone like that is by finding yourself in a close friendship with them.

IDK, the best thing for it, in my experience, has been getting with people from more casual friendships, but friendships none-the-less.
 
bro1 said:
No, I have half a planet that I can fuck, half to be friends with, and 1 person I can be friends with and go to the bone zone, my wife.
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I approve of this post.

I have one female friend that I occasionally hang out with, but otherwise the people I call when I want to go out are all men. That doesn't mean I'm disdainful toward women or don't know women that I'm friendly toward, but I prefer hanging out with men unless I'm dating someone, and even then I don't dedicate any serious amount of time to a girl until we're in an established relationship.

Another thought: I've friend-zoned a girl that wanted me pretty badly. I didn't know when we first met if I liked her or not, so I called her up a few times to go out but ultimately decided that she was slightly neurotic and wasn't a fit for my personality. So, sometimes a guy just doesn't know when he meets someone if he likes them.
 
Pardon me for not having the the time reading trough 25 pages. Was there something interesting discussed, or just the usual bullshit?
 
Of the women that I've actually seriously considered a future with, the idea of deciding if I wanted a romantic relationship with them right at the start was basically impossible because I didn't even vaguely know them well enough at that point. My relationships always have to start off as just normal friends first until a point when I'm sure I want to commit that something extra. Reading some of the comments in here make me feel like a criminal.
 
I met a girl a couple of months ago on a college thing and I was very much attracted to her. Unfortunately, I already had a girlfriend (and have btw).

That night after partying she went to my room and while lying on my bed we told eachother that if we would not have had a SO we would have fucked that very night and that we were very attracted (not just sexually) no eachother.

She is one of my very best friends now.
 
Fiction said:
What people don't understand about my posts is that I think it's wrong for a guy to befriend a girl, call himself her friend, with the sole intention of 'wearing her down' and 'making her fall in love him'. It's dishonest. Yes, feelings can change, and that's all well and good, but entering into a relationship with someone who thinks you are just their friend when you have intentions on moving it to the next level is disingenuous.

Basically, it breaks down to if you like a girl, tell her. Don't pretend to be friends with her just to get close.
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Popular culture tells you this is the correct way to go unfortunately. Big Bang theory, Friends, etc all do this alongside simping and it destroys the self-respect of those who practice it.
 
maomaoIYP said:
Of the women that I've actually seriously considered a future with, the idea of deciding if I wanted a romantic relationship with them right at the start was basically impossible because I didn't even vaguely know them well enough at that point. My relationships always have to start off as just normal friends first until a point when I'm sure I want to commit that something extra. Reading some of the comments in here make me feel like a criminal.
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Screw them, I think you're on point. The only thing I can really gauge at the start is physical attraction, and it's not until I get to know someone that I get to know someone. Sounds redundant but my point is it usually takes time, some hanging out and 1 to 1 conversation to really figure someone out. I think it's wise to appreciate a person's personality and all that before you commit to something serious. It's ensured lasting relationships for me, anyway. That said, I wouldn't sit back if I developed these feelings for a girl and stay content with friendship. If I come to find out the feelings aren't reciprocated then so be it -- it's better than deluding myself with complacency.
 
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