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[PBalfredo]

In Blazblue you can assign special moves to thumbstick shortcuts. Iron Tager has his SPD assigned to the shortcut and it doesn't break the game.

 

[hteng]

bassically,

whether or not street fighter could essentially be the same game without making your thumb raw.

i think it could be.

get an arcade stick!

 

[-COOLIO-]

"i think he means the same delay when the input is not being masked by another move or a block."

Yes, that's what I assumed.

and it still wouldn't ever hit?

dont geifs typically land their throws after some kind of action on screen?

get an arcade stick!

well that works, but i meant it as a euphemism for complex inputs

In Blazblue you can assign special moves to thumbstick shortcuts. Iron Tager has his SPD assigned to the shortcut and it doesn't break the game.

weird how i never thought to bring that up

 

[Teknopathetic]

"and it still wouldn't ever hit?

dont geifs typically land their throws after some kind of action on screen?"

Yes. If you're saying they add a delay, then zangief is standing there...doing nothing waiting for SPD to come out.


"In Blazblue you can assign special moves to thumbstick shortcuts. Iron Tager has his SPD assigned to the shortcut and it doesn't break the game."

BlazBlue doesn't allow you to do that in Ranked Matches. For a reason.

 

[DY_nasty]

In Blazblue you can assign special moves to thumbstick shortcuts. Iron Tager has his SPD assigned to the shortcut and it doesn't break the game.

Its a great feature. Even though 'the easy stick' is rightfully barred from most competitive play, its still a good addition and I hope other devs piggy back off the idea

Spoiler

and how to properly handle online in a fighting game

 

[Oichi]

i think it's a necessity as it provides another layer of depth in gameplay, like what the Chen article said, some of the motions are designed to prevent spamming, or simply walking up and executing it.

It also provides yet another layer of depth, because you can pretend to input moves to make your opponent react and bait them into doing something you want them to do. i.e. bobbing up and down with Ryu to pretend to be inputting a fireball so the other player jumps in anticipation but lands on a shoryuken instead.

 

[-COOLIO-]

"and it still wouldn't ever hit?

dont geifs typically land their throws after some kind of action on screen?"

Yes. If you're saying they add a delay, then zangief is standing there...doing nothing waiting for SPD to come out.


"In Blazblue you can assign special moves to thumbstick shortcuts. Iron Tager has his SPD assigned to the shortcut and it doesn't break the game."

BlazBlue doesn't allow you to do that in Ranked Matches. For a reason.

ya, that wouldnt work. i think the dude you were arguing with would prefer an implementation where geifs input for spd was like left on the analog stick or something, but unless the start up time was masked in hit stun or whatever, then geif would just stand there for an amount of time.

follow?

BlazBlue doesn't allow you to do that in Ranked Matches. For a reason.

it breaks the game? what if i applied the geif logic to it?

 

[Kadey]

Oichi is never wrong. He's like the grandmaster of fighting game knowledge. We should call him gramps or something.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Oichi is never wrong. He's like the grandmaster of fighting game knowledge. We should call him gramps or something.

my tag was meant to be 'never wrong on fighting games' but it wouldnt fit on one line.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"ya, that wouldnt work. i think the dude you were arguing it would prefer an implementation where geifs input for spd was like left on the analog stick or something, but unless the start up time was masked in hit stun or whatever, then geif would just stand there for an amount of time."

What you're proposing doesn't make it difficult to land the SPD whatsoever.


"it breaks the game? what if i applied the geif logic to it?"

What gief logic?

 

[Oichi]

ya, that wouldnt work. i think the dude you were arguing it would prefer an implementation where geifs input for spd was like left on the analog stick or something, but unless the start up time was masked in hit stun or whatever, then geif would just stand there for an amount of time.

follow?



it breaks the game? what if i applied the geif logic to it?

Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games

 

[Freshmaker]

and it still wouldn't ever hit?

dont geifs typically land their throws after some kind of action on screen?

They usually do that to make the execution easier. (No risk of randomly hopping around while doing a 720 motion if you're already airborne etc.) If they didn't have to worry about that...

 

[-COOLIO-]

"ya, that wouldnt work. i think the dude you were arguing it would prefer an implementation where geifs input for spd was like left on the analog stick or something, but unless the start up time was masked in hit stun or whatever, then geif would just stand there for an amount of time."

What you're proposing doesn't make it difficult to land the SPD whatsoever.


"it breaks the game? what if i applied the geif logic to it?"

What gief logic?

in what situation would it be easier to land it my way?

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Oichi is never wrong. He's like the grandmaster of fighting game knowledge. We should call him gramps or something.

But he hurt my feelings bashing smash. Now I'm going to try and make these other legitimate games seem archaic even though I haven't actually played them.

 

[DY_nasty]

it breaks the game? what if i applied the geif logic to it?

I played a Tager that was using the Easy Stick a couple of times. Lost every match. What once was a 720 degree input simply became up.

Vowed never to play easy stick enabled matches online ever again. They're great for when you're just getting into the game though. Helped my group of friends out immensely.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games
Wrong on fighting games

Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong

 

[Teknopathetic]

"in what situation would it be easier to land it my way?"

You do some attack to lock them into hit/block stun and press the thumbstick/button for easy mode/spd. You've pressed *2* buttons and have done a mindless tick 360. How exactly is that difficult?

 

[Twig]

Man, I thought we were past the heated argument stage except for Freshmaker.

I can see we've come full circle. How depressing. ):

 

[-COOLIO-]

"in what situation would it be easier to land it my way?"

You do some attack to lock them into hit/block stun and press the thumbstick/button for easy mode/spd. You've pressed *2* buttons and have done a mindless tick 360. How exactly is that difficult?

it wouldnt work on light attack hit stun, but only on hitstun that is long enough, that a person could do the 360 motion.

Man, I thought we were past the heated argument stage except for Freshmaker.

I can see we've come full circle. How depressing. ):

we've also had this thread a few times before, the trick is to just ignore the stuff youve already heard and try to take in something new

 

[Snapshot King]

Wasn't this topic made almost exactly two or three months ago?

Also.

it wouldnt work on light attack hit stun, but only on hitstun that is long enough, that a person could do the 360 motion.



we've also had this thread a few times before, the trick is to just ignore the stuff youve already heard and try to take in something new

I, and almost any other player thats competent with grapplers, can do instant SPDs on a stick. Your logic totally falls apart. Hit stun compared to SPD timing is totally irrelevant. What matters timing the SPD to come out on hopefully frame 1 of the block/hitstun ending.

 

[hteng]

in what situation would it be easier to land it my way?

what's your way?

and the way zangief usually like to do the motion from air is because you can buffer the input while you are airbourne, once you land you'll execute immediately, right infront of your opponent if you land correctly.

or sometimes buffer from a block stun where you can retaliate immediately.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"it wouldnt work on light attack hit stun, but only on hitstun that is long enough, that a person could do the 360 motion."

Uh, you still only press one button for a medium or hard attack. And it's already not terribly difficult to buffer 360 motions on light attacks.


"Wasn't this topic made almost exactly two or three months ago?"

This topic is made every 4 or 5 months.

 

[DY_nasty]

it wouldnt work on light attack hit stun, but only on hitstun that is long enough, that a person could do the 360 motion.

There are some people that are good enough to combo into the 720 super. Those people are fucking legends and if they beat me by pulling off such an incredible feat, then I readily clap loudly so that they can hear my applause through the headset. However, guys who just map it to a right stick direction and mash buttons... that can't be allowed to happen.

 

[Snapshot King]

There are some people that are good enough to combo into the 720 super. Those people are fucking legends and if they beat me by pulling off such an incredible feat, then I readily clap loudly so that they can hear my applause through the headset. However, guys who just map it to a right stick direction and mash buttons... that can't be allowed to happen.

Are we talking about BB or SF here?

 

[Oichi]

But he hurt my feelings bashing smash. Now I'm going to try and make these other legitimate games seem archaic even though I haven't actually played them.

Look, as a game I have about zero problems with Smash, but the community around it fucking sucks. It's a fun game, but people are fooling themselves if they think that game sold based on the merits of its gameplay. The game sold and continues to sell on franchises it didn't cultivate, aka exactly why Soulcalibur 4, soley on the power of Star Wars, sold 2+ million.

 

[-COOLIO-]

There are some people that are good enough to combo into the 720 super. Those people are fucking legends and if they beat me by pulling off such an incredible feat, then I readily clap loudly so that they can hear my applause through the headset. However, guys who just map it to a right stick direction and mash buttons... that can't be allowed to happen.

well this is absolutely the fundamental debate right here. should fighting games be about the dpad/stick movements and everything else, or just everything else.

it really all comes down to this and i happen to be in the everything else camp. i understand why people would be for either though.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"well this is absolutely the fundamental debate right here. should fighting games be about the dpad/stick movements and everything else, or just everything else.

it really all comes down to this and i happen to be in the everything else camp."


The problem is that you (and others who think like you) don't seem to understand that the dpad/stick movements go hand in hand with "everything else." Character design/move balance, strategy, mind games, etc.

 

[Snapshot King]

well this is absolutely the fundamental debate right here. should fighting games be about the dpad/stick movements and everything else, or just everything else.

it really all comes down to this and i happen to be in the everything else camp. i understand why people would be for either though.

Ideally they would have no execution barriers whatsoever, but until we're past using controllers, execution barriers will exist. Since they do, they might as well serve a purpose, such as making the UAB and FAB difficult to land while standing, or what have you.

 

[Freshmaker]

Man, I thought we were past the heated argument stage except for Freshmaker.

You'd have nothing to say in this thread if you weren't bitching about me constantly duder.

 

[DY_nasty]

Are we talking about BB or SF here?

BB, sorry.

well this is absolutely the fundamental debate right here. should fighting games be about the dpad/stick movements and everything else, or just everything else.

it really all comes down to this and i happen to be in the everything else camp. i understand why people would be for either though.

Well, I only have a problem if it comes to point where skill is trumped by something like 'the easy stick'. Thankfully, its not a problem at all.

 

[-COOLIO-]

"well this is absolutely the fundamental debate right here. should fighting games be about the dpad/stick movements and everything else, or just everything else.

it really all comes down to this and i happen to be in the everything else camp."


The problem is that you (and others who think like you) don't seem to understand that the dpad/stick movements go hand in hand with "everything else." Character design/move balance, strategy, mind games, etc.

ill have to take your word for it but i think pretty much everything would stay more or less intact.

edit: actually, go ahead and explain to me how it effects strategy and mind games. throw some scenarios at me. if you participate in these threads every few months you might as well develop an essay that shuts down the argument each time.

itd save you effort in the long run

 

[Snapshot King]

BB, sorry.
Well, I only have a problem if it comes to point where skill is trumped by something like 'the easy stick'. Thankfully, its not a problem at all.

I thought it sounded like BB, but people kept bringing out Gief logic or some such thing. Tagers not Gief! Trust me, my shittyness with Tager is proof enough :lol

 

[Snapshot King]

ill have to take your word for it but i think pretty much everything would stay more or less intact.

No. You're going to have to take his word for it.

EDIT: Crap, sorry, double posted.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"edit: actually, go ahead and explain to me how it effects strategy and mind games. throw some scenarios at me. if you participate in these threads every few months you might as well develop an essay that shuts down the argument each time.

itd save you effort in the long run"


Several examples have already been posted in this thread including James Chen's article that sparked this current debate. Read them and actually comprehend them.

 

[Twig]

we've also had this thread a few times before, the trick is to just ignore the stuff youve already heard and try to take in something new

Yeah but I've never been in one! It's exciting new territory for me!!

The problem is that you (and others who think like you) don't seem to understand that the dpad/stick movements go hand in hand with "everything else." Character design/move balance, strategy, mind games, etc.

Well, I've never implied that they don't go hand in hand. In fact...

They go hand in hand with the "everything else" as it is currently designed. Surely you can't deny that it's possible to design a game with depth and complexity and still keep the actual inputs simple and clean. If you can, I'd like to know where you get your drugs.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Look, as a game I have about zero problems with Smash, but the community around it fucking sucks. It's a fun game, but people are fooling themselves if they think that game sold based on the merits of its gameplay. The game sold and continues to sell on franchises it didn't cultivate, aka exactly why Soulcalibur 4, soley on the power of Star Wars, sold 2+ million.

I don't think people like Zek are acting like total buttheads because they think Smash sold more, and that they have more weight to say what's good or bad. Rather they're too used to one precedent to see the merits of a fighter that requires more execution.

But seriously, that Zek guy was a flamebaiter. You shouldn't take that for the whole community. He should switch tags with Coolio.

 

[-COOLIO-]

"edit: actually, go ahead and explain to me how it effects strategy and mind games. throw some scenarios at me. if you participate in these threads every few months you might as well develop an essay that shuts down the argument each time.

itd save you effort in the long run"


Several examples have already been posted in this thread including James Chen's article that sparked this current debate. Read them and actually comprehend them.

ok, i get that youre tired of arguing your position but it's a little ridiculous to take on a condescending tone with people who aren't fimiliar with the works of mr james chen. jeez.

 

[hteng]

ill have to take your word for it but i think pretty much everything would stay more or less intact.

edit: actually, go ahead and explain to me how it effects strategy and mind games. throw some scenarios at me. if you participate in these threads every few months you might as well develop an essay that shuts down the argument each time.

itd save you effort in the long run

Since it requires some preparation and setup to use the SPD, you can try to bait it, or the zangief/tager player can counter-bait you by doing the jump in or motion but use something else to throw you off.

It's the same in Soul Calibur, when you see an Ivy player jerking up and down, you are most likely gonna expect a command grab coming. Even expert players can't hide those movements.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"ok, i get that youre tired of arguing your position but it's a little ridiculous to take on a condescending tone with people who aren't fimiliar with the works of mr james chen. jeez."

The article was linked *in this thread* and is what started the current discussion (you know, what you're debating). I take more of an issue with you not being familiar with what's actually going on in the thread yet still trying to participate.

 

[-COOLIO-]

"ok, i get that youre tired of arguing your position but it's a little ridiculous to take on a condescending tone with people who aren't fimiliar with the works of mr james chen. jeez."

The article was linked *in this thread* and is what started the current topic. I take more of an issue with you not being familiar with what's actually going on in the thread you're currently trying to participate in.

it's a 15 page thread, and about a subject ive gone over. why not edit the title and include it in the OP to save yourself some work?

 

[Teknopathetic]

"it's a 15 page thread, and about a subject ive gone over. why not edit the title and include it in the OP to save yourself some work?"


It was linked 2 pages ago. Why not read the fucking thread?

 

[Oichi]

It's going to be great when COOLIO gets banned. :lol

 

[Snapshot King]

ok, i get that youre tired of arguing your position but it's a little ridiculous to take on a condescending tone with people who aren't fimiliar with the works of mr james chen. jeez.

Like I said, this topic was made just a couple months ago. Reverse opening post, almost exactly the same. That one was about combos, but really, core issues remain the same.

1. Opening statement about fighting game mechanics either being solid or too hard.

2. Fighting game players come in, make cursory posts, nod their heads and wait for the rest of em to flood in.

3. People who aren't all that versed in fighting games come in and start making crazy suggestions that have been proven not to work and have been discussed to death.

4. Articles are posted explaining why those things won't work, along with in depth explanations and rebuttals.

5. Non fighters continue to reframe their point but really make no effort to understand the material provided for them to help them understand the issue.

6. Fighting fans get impatient, start calling you scrubs or take a condescending tone.

7. Non fighters view the fighting game community as being mean or harsh or what have you, like we all live in an ivory tower and don't want anything to change because of simple preference.

8. Name calling starts (if it hasn't already, then it gets considerably stronger and more poignant.) General increase in petty shit.

9. Topic then repeats itself from about ten posts in.

 

[-COOLIO-]

"it's a 15 page thread, and about a subject ive gone over. why not edit the title and include it in the OP to save yourself some work?"


It was linked 2 pages ago. Why not read the fucking thread?

ive been in and out of this thread, i missed a link over a 100 posts ago, MY BAD.

but seriously, im actually trying to advise you here. why not just put it in the OP since it argues your view for you?

i can guarantee you that not many people here are going to take the time you look at page 13 of this thread and read the james chen article

It's going to be great when COOLIO gets banned. :lol

i can feel his finger teetering over the button

 

[Snapshot King]

ive been in and out of this thread, i missed a link over a 100 posts ago, MY BAD.

but seriously, im actually trying to advise you here. why not just put it in the OP since it argues your view for you?

i can guarantee you that not many people here are going to take the time you look at page 13 of this thread and read the james chen article


i can feel his finger teetering over the button

Holy crap dude when did your title change? :lol

 

[Teknopathetic]

"but seriously, im actually trying to advise you here. why not just put it in the OP since it argues your view for you?"

Because, why should I? The problem is solved if you actually *don't post* until you read and understand what's been posted first. At the very least read everything regarding the current conversation. Your opinion is not so important (it's really, really not) that it needs to be posted before you even know what's actually being discussed and I'm not doing your homework for you.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

It's going to be great when COOLIO gets banned. :lol

Aww. Come on now.

 

[-COOLIO-]

"but seriously, im actually trying to advise you here. why not just put it in the OP since it argues your view for you?"

Because, why should I? The problem is solved if you actually *don't post* until you read and understand what's been posted first. At the very least read everything regarding the current conversation. Your opinion is not so important (it's really, really not) that it needs to be posted before you even know what's actually being discussed and I'm not doing your homework for you.

mods update OPs with the relevant facts all the time. this isnt really an official thread on anything but i doubt the OP would mind since you guys are on the same side.

Your opinion is not so important (it's really, really not)

youre trying to coax me into saying somethin bannable arnt you?

i see the mind game stuff you were talking about. :lol

anyway im not here to sound important, im only here to learn for myself.

 

[Twig]

5. Non fighters continue to reframe their point but really make no effort to understand the material provided for them to help them understand the issue.

I'm making every effort to understand, but I still get yelled at just because I have a different opinion! It's not my fault!

Besides, you "fighters" are just as guilty as shutting down our arguments without a second thought as you accuse us of doing. Wow, that was a loaded statement. But, the point is, we're all gamers, damnit, and (most of us) seem intelligent. Why the hell can't we be more empathetic and understanding as well? This is why arguments go in circles.

Now, let's go dance in a field of flowers or some shit.

...

By the way, does anyone know if SSF4 is coming to PC? Or if it's not? All I found with a quick Google search is "not announced."

mods update OPs with the relevant facts all the time. this isnt really an official thread on anything but i doubt the OP would mind since you guys are on the same side.

I don't think anyone's on the OP's side. He crazy.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"mods update OPs with the relevant facts all the time. this isnt really an official thread on anything but i doubt the OP would mind since you guys are on the same side."

Because this thread isn't that large and it's not filled with 50 pages of filler posts per 1 post of actual information. Furthermore, it's doubly annoying when you ask someone to post examples, when several of them were given over the past 2 pages. If you want to join in the debate, discussion, conversation, whatever, read it first. Or at least skim it enough that you have some idea of what's going on. The End.