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Why do people argue that fighting games have memorization?

Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Not that I am pointing fingers, this is usually seen from people who play games with simple inputs like Smash. I don't care about their bullshit arguments like what is a fighting game and depth and so on, but then there's this gold nugget of an argument that FIGHTING GAMES HAVE MEMORIZATION HURR DURR and THE CONTROLS ARE SO COMPLEX HURR DURR.

I find it funny personally, especially when as a fighting game fan, you don't really need to memorize. We all know that nearly every fighting game created (well, maybe not all) follow a similar input - quarter circles, charge moves, dragon punch motions, etc. Even doujin-inspired games follow similar moves. It feels natural, since they share a universal input.

PS: Goddamnit, I meant have, not need. ><
 
Ookami-kun said:
We all know that nearly every fighting game created (well, maybe not all) follow a similar input - quarter circles, charge moves, dragon punch motions, etc.
Click to expand...

No, not everyone knows that.
 
I've never really played any fighters.. so if I went and bought one, you say I would not need to memorize any combinations to do good?
 
Ookami-kun said:
We all know that nearly every fighting game created (well, maybe not all) follow a similar input - quarter circles, charge moves, dragon punch motions, etc.
Click to expand...

You didn't have to memorize how any of that worked in your first fighting game?

I mean your very first fighting game, ever, you just picked up and started hadoukening bitches from minute one?
 
it's more about muscle memory, seriously, the first time i played tekken i was overwhelmed by the fuckton of moves each character has. But after some 100-200 hours of practice and matches you practically pull out the moves by instinct, of coz there are some useless moves but experimenting and finding out is also part of the fun.

It definitely has a steep learning curve, when you first started it is definitely a process of memorization, in terms of combo strings and timing.
 
Because they DO require memorization - Some of them much more than others.

I don't think anyone really complains about needing to remember 8 or 10 special moves for a character, like in say Street Fighter 2, but as time has gone on, many fighting games have gotten to the point where each character in a game has a moveset in the hundreds of moves/combos.

That's instantly off-putting to anyone not interested in spending the time memorizing all those commands just to be able to play a character.

Some people like that sort of game, which is fine too - but a lot of people want a more read-react-apply sort of gameplay rather than spending eons mastering a moveset.
 
Chunking controls into blocks makes it easier but still requires memorization. Do you know every move for every character intuitively and without reading a manual or something? I think the only game you can make this argument is Smash Bros.
 
Fighting games require memorization as much is they require thumbs. This thread is stupid.
 
Well you're probably referring to dial-a-combo games like Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct. Many of the games like those made by Capcom and SNK are free-flowing, meaning that the combos are pretty much up to you. Sure there are most effective ones, but it generally just reflects your knowledge on the attacks, not necessarily "memorizing".

And yeah sure, you must be told what will be the motion for your first fighting game (for instance, Ryu in SF2Turbo), but then you'll apply said moves to everyone, and you'll realize only a few difference (charge characters, etc.).
 
They hurt my fingers. (I like arcade sticks better than contrllers for this reason, but fighting games aren't really my thing anyway. Oh, and you DO need to memorize things, like, combos and stuff.)
 
Memorization is kind of a crappy word for it. They require practice. Like when you play music do you memorise the whole thing as it appears in sheet music? Probably not.
 
Yeah, I think my point didn't come across due to poor wording. :lol

What I mean is, people like to argue that fighting games are just all about memorization, and solely just about that. They never consider the positioning of the characters, the difference of attack priorities, etc. And that memorization, in the long run, isn't really that much.
 
UC1 said:
Memorization is kind of a crappy word for it. They require practice. Like when you play music do you memorise the whole thing as it appears in sheet music? Probably not.
Click to expand...
Generally you refer to learning to play a piece without reading the sheet as 'memorizing it'.
 
Ookami-kun said:
Well you're probably referring to dial-a-combo games like Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct. Many of the games like those made by Capcom and SNK are free-flowing, meaning that the combos are pretty much up to you. Sure there are most effective ones, but it generally just reflects your knowledge on the attacks, not necessarily "memorizing".

And yeah sure, you must be told what will be the motion for your first fighting game (for instance, Ryu in SF2Turbo), but then you'll apply said moves to everyone, and you'll realize only a few difference (charge characters, etc.).
Click to expand...

Dude, not only do you have to memorize a moveset, but then the properties of each individual move, matchups specific to that character etc. etc. etc.

It's all about knowledge and after that how you use it.

Ookami-kun said:
Yeah, I think my point didn't come across due to poor wording. :lol

What I mean is, people like to argue that fighting games are just all about memorization, and solely just about that. They never consider the positioning of the characters, the difference of attack priorities, etc. And that memorization, in the long run, isn't really that much.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.
 
UC1 said:
Memorization is kind of a crappy word for it. They require practice. Like when you play music do you memorise the whole thing as it appears in sheet music? Probably not.
Click to expand...
The controls to a video game, ideally, should not require practice. The practice in being good at a game should not require "Having memorized arcane controls" as part of it.

I put up with it because I like the gameplay in fighting games, but I imagine there are many who do not like putting up with the silliness.
 
angry_kid_playing_chess.jpg


It's all about mind games.
 
Ookami-kun said:
Yeah, I think my point didn't come across due to poor wording. :lol

What I mean is, people like to argue that fighting games are just all about memorization, and solely just about that. They never consider the positioning of the characters, the difference of attack priorities, etc. And that memorization, in the long run, isn't really that much.
Click to expand...
ok this is a very valid point
 
Ookami-kun said:
Yeah, I think my point didn't come across due to poor wording. :lol

What I mean is, people like to argue that fighting games are just all about memorization, and solely just about that. They never consider the positioning of the characters, the difference of attack priorities, etc. And that memorization, in the long run, isn't really that much.
Click to expand...
the difference in attack priorities is memorization isnt it?

spacing and strategy is the fun stuff though.

anyway, i should leave these threads early, i bid ye adieu
 
There's no way around it, at high level play there's a ton of memorization required. Especially with most 3D fighters.
 
Depends on the game; no one can really blanket statement it in either direction. EDIT: (Now that I think of it... I'm pretty sure every fighting game requires some memorization.)

Also, are we talking specifically about special move INPUTS or actual COMBOS?

The game I am most familiar with when it comes to fighting games is Blazblue and the whole game pretty much hinges on combos, many of which are quite long. You HAVE to practice and memorize these if you want to inflict any kind of significant damage to your opponent. No question. Especially for characters like Taokaka and Litchi, you can't just poke all day because your opponent will never die. Just watch two people play where one has memorized combos and the other player doesn't know them. The second player may get more opportunities for damage but will probably lose without being able to capitalize on those chances.

Even if we're talking just move inputs, memorization is still required to an extent... not all games share those basic inputs you speak off, and even for single moves there are isolated instances where it can get pretty complex (Akuma's raging demon in SFIV, Ivy's special grab in SCIV come to mind).

In both cases you still effectively have to memorize what those inputs do in each game. Just because you are "familiar" with the controls in the qcf qcb sense doesn't mean you'll know exactly what to expect with every new fighting game you pop in.
 
Well, again, I really wouldn't consider knowing the priority of an attack memorization but more on knowledge of your character. Like, you "feel" that you should/shouldn't do an attack because you know it will be successful/it will fail.
 
Ookami-kun said:
Yeah, I think my point didn't come across due to poor wording. :lol

What I mean is, people like to argue that fighting games are just all about memorization, and solely just about that. They never consider the positioning of the characters, the difference of attack priorities, etc. And that memorization, in the long run, isn't really that much.
Click to expand...
Even then, spacing and timing is just as important as the input execution if not more important in some games. A well placed counter-hit in the right position can end a round in seconds in the faster paced fighting games. In 3D fights, spacing is critical because your entire movelist is based on that spacing.

This argument reminds me a lot of how some people criticize racing. There's more to it than just 'going faster than everyone else'.
 
Ookami-kun said:
Well, again, I really wouldn't consider knowing the priority of an attack memorization but more on knowledge of your character. Like, you "feel" that you should/shouldn't do an attack because you know it will be successful/it will fail.
Click to expand...

Is English your first language?
 
Do you put post-its on your TV that list out the exact combination for beating your opponent without letting them take a single punch or something?
 
Ookami-kun said:
Well, again, I really wouldn't consider knowing the priority of an attack memorization but more on knowledge of your character. Like, you "feel" that you should/shouldn't do an attack because you know it will be successful/it will fail.
Click to expand...
The 'feel' = memory.

You can't have a feel for a character that you've never used before. The more you use a character, the greater your 'feel'/skill/memory/training is with that character.
 
63zog1.jpg


3D fighters scare me. I've been gravitating back toward 2D fighters for the simple fact that it won't make my brain explode in having to constantly practice and memorize specific combos.
 
Ookami-kun said:
We all know that nearly every fighting game created (well, maybe not all) follow a similar input - quarter circles, charge moves, dragon punch motions, etc. Even doujin-inspired games follow similar moves. It feels natural, since they share a universal input.
Click to expand...

sounds like more memorization than the simple controls in most games.
 
Ookami-kun said:
Well, again, I really wouldn't consider knowing the priority of an attack memorization but more on knowledge of your character. Like, you "feel" that you should/shouldn't do an attack because you know it will be successful/it will fail.
Click to expand...

You still have to know what your character is capable of so that you can properly respond to different situations. The only way to know that is to memorize your move set if you want know all of the options available to you.
 
Ookami-kun said:
Well, again, I really wouldn't consider knowing the priority of an attack memorization but more on knowledge of your character. Like, you "feel" that you should/shouldn't do an attack because you know it will be successful/it will fail.
Click to expand...

wat

its still memory
 
depends at what level you want to play fighting games. If you want to do anything past button mashing and hoping that something works, you've gotta memorize stuff.
 
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