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[Nekofrog]

I've always liked Lightning for reasons unknown to me.

Trying so hard to be "cool".

 

[Beth Cyra]

I played through the entirety of FFXIII and don't recall much about her character other than she's utterly forgettable. I recall her being like Squall from FFXIII: arrogant, unrelatable, and a one-dimensional cardboard cutout personality. She even looks like Squall, which makes sense given Tetsuya Nomura's embarrassingly uncreative character designs. In other words, I'd say she represents everything terrible about modern Final Fantasy. The fact that Square keeps using her shows they are creatively bankrupt.

Lightning and Squall are nothing alike aside from being stand offish.

She ceratinly doesn't look like him, Squall is modeled after River Phoenix and it shows.

 

[Ishida]

or the rest

The nightmares...

 

[DJIzana]

Lightning is really Cloud in drag.

Here's a better comparison.

 

[HolyBaikal]

I'm not sure that "emo" has any clear meaning. It appears to mean all sorts of different things. I honestly don't understand why emo garnered so much hate in the first place. A lot of it was extremely homophobic. And people used hating it as an excuse to be extremely sexist, homophobic, and transphobic. Also, people blame the music about being about break-ups in relationships. But this band, for instance, makes it's subject matter entirely about the working class/socialism/class and feminism, among a few other social and political issues. And people who think that emo music is just pop are pretty uninformed.

For a fashion or music or anything of the sort which seemed so similar to Goth or Punk(in the case of the "original" emo, it was just hardcore punk), it sure got more hate that I would expect. And I was never comfortable with all of the hatred for emo, long after the fad is over, I look back on it and see a lot of homophobia and hatred for effeminacy.

I wasn't a part of the generation that supposedly liked "emo". But it certainly seemed to be as similar to Goth and Punk, two subcultures I never saw a problem with. And several years ago it helped me to discover some really good hardcore punk.

Really, I feel that emo just because a very lazy and sad catch all for something they didn't like. Especially for some kind of homophobia or femmephobia.

I can't help but be suspicious similarly when people call obviously not depressive or angsty Final Fantasy characters "emo", as some slight against their perceived femininity.

And emo is a new term so it makes sense why it has struggled to find a "real" definition. But the term angsty I feel has taken on a completely new definition in modern times. When I look up the definition of "angst", I see little of the modern definition of how people use it. If I read a paper about Franz Kafka, and then something about "emos" or Final Fantasy characters, the meaning of "angst" will be totally different. Aside from mislabeling video game characters as angsty, I feel that many who use the term "angst" today, don't even know what the word means. And both "emo" and "angsty" have just become catch-all terms for something that someone doesn't like.

People can like or dislike Cloud and Squall, but I always find that most of the "dislikers" have weird reasons. You can hate Squall for being a fucking douchebag, and his constant "Whatever..." (Loved that myself), but hating them for being "angsty"?

It is somewhat as if people who saw Advent Children forgot how Cloud was in the original Final Fantasy VII.

I feel like this has also risen with the hatred for the Japanese RPG genre itself. Cloud hate seems Final Fantasy VII hate related. Final Fantasy VII is a well known Japanese RPG that people who don't like the genre can attack. And a part of that can be exaggerating negative ideas they have about popular characters.

Back in the 90s, it was definitely common to say negative things about Squall's attitude. But this dislike for Cloud seems very new. And seems to be correlated with the rise of the hate for the Japanese RPG.

With either emo or Final Fantasy, a lot of this hatred seems to be based on ignorance and the desire to hate something rather than the facts of the matter. People who never liked Japanese RPGs to begin with now have a popular voice in today's industry and community. It also doesn't help that Square Enix's fans are also unhappy with the company and franchise right now, and are less likely to stick up for it or characters from it.

 

[Shogun1337]

Final Fantasy XIII was fucking terrible, yes. But I think what the game had going for it was a somewhat likable character in a sea of generic anime tropes. With Lightning Returns releasing soon, there appears to be some sort of aggressive dislike of the character both in and out of GAF, and I don't really see an understandable reason why. I get the idea that the director for Lightning Returns comes off as a fucking weirdo, sure. But throughout XIII and XIII-2, she still retains that hardened and strict personality--something we don't really get out of Final Fantasy characters.

At this point in the XIII series, she is becoming extremely overpowered.

Because her personality is cardboard and she starred in the worst main Final Fantasy of all time.

 

[Deckard Cain]

In the most basic terms her arcs as a character are poorly developed. That's nothing new in video games but she herself is an alienating poorly designed character to begin with which makes it even worse and more noticeable. Stories are all about characters and their interactions and the story Lightning goes through leads to nothing of note to be added to her bland character. What a surprise that bunch of video game programmers and businessmen don't understand how to make compelling characters. I'm socked.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm not a FF fan (although I appreciate the fact people like the series), but from my outsider's perspective, I quite like Lightning's design, aesthetically. She does seem like she's a bit self-serious and mopey, though. Again, this is a perspective from someone who hasn't played the games, so I could be far off the mark. I really dig her design aesthetically, though, or at least how they depicted her in the first game (FFXIII). Great colors, strong silhouette, and enough details to be interesting without being overcomplicated.

EDIT: Oh, she also looks fantastic in that dealwithit.gif.

 

[LuuKyK]

 

[Dandy Crocodile]

An easy bandwagon to jump onto.

Nailed it.

FFXIII and its sequels might not be the FFs many people hoped for/expected but I feel like they're still great games.
I think Lightning is an interesting character. I like her and her design. I do wish they would stop focusing on her so much with the sequels but I still buy them because they're fun.

 

[Leeness]

In a way, I think it's more that she is forced into the spotlight and is the (shitty) face of FF right now.

I don't hate her (she punched Snow, I respect that) but she's just kind of bland and nothing. She is just there.

 

[Lebron]

She's the female version of Cloud, boring as fuck. She just doesn't get a pass like Cloud since he was in a little known game, called VII.

The fact that SE is trying (forcing) to make her this generation's Cloud isn't helping either.

 

[PowderedToast]

i would argue that vanille is actually the main character of XIII, but s-e clearly saw marketing potential in lightning and they still do (she was on the cover of XIII even in europe which broke tradition). i think she's fine and her initial design was very well done, but like most FF characters she's quite basic and her purpose is more centered around tackling broad moralistic themes rather than being deep or particularly complex.

 

[Marvelous]

I don't really hate Lightning. She's just not that interesting to me and Fang should have been the main character anyway.

FFXIII is a beautiful looking game, though. (imo)

 

[gogosox8]

Lightning isn't a bad character, but she's not a good one either. Its got more to do with the fact they've done three games centered around her when its really not needed since her character is "meh" at best.

 

[badcrumble]

I don't hate Lightning, but the backlash is entirely understandable since we've been robbed of a real generation of 3 full FF games for the first time, and for better or worse she's seen as the representative of that shitty fact. I think the anger is almost entirely irrespective of her actual personality.

FFXIII is bad, but people wouldn't care nearly as much about it if we hadn't gotten more and more and more FFXIII instead of FFXV.

 

[Gintoki313]

I've played FFXIII and the most interesting character to me was Sazh.
I've played FFXIII-2 and the most interesting character to me was Noel.

I usually can remember something memorable from most FF characters. Cloud and his whole

Spoiler

wheelchair

thing, Squall and his awkward dancing, Zidane and his.. well his dialogue alone is memorable, and Tidus's laugh. Lightning... well she hit people... like a ton. Maybe a little too much. I think she hits Snow like 4 times, she kicks Sazh, and

Spoiler

smacks Fang

. The girl needs to chill. Why is she the only FF member I don't have a good memory about?

Also everytime there was a happy scene, or relaxing scene. She wouldn't even do anything. Just talk about her mission, always moving forward, she's so boring. I seriously can't stand her character. There's usually that party member of the team that's always serious or a drag, and she was that party member.

I liked XIII-2. I just didn't like Lightning, and a tiny bit of Sarah.

 

[Whompa]

worst birthday ever

 

[The Mana Legend]

Power doesn't equal a good character. Superman is one of the dullest superheroes out there and even he has more depth than her.

Someone doesn't understand Superman.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

She's the poster girl and the encapsulation of much of what SE has done to sabotage themselves both creatively, financially, and conceptually over the last 10 years.

The more she appears, the more the devs talk about it instead of waves of new wonderful characters they could have been making in that time, instead of the good characters they have created in the interrum, and the longer XIII is the face of single-player Final Fantasy, this hate will only boil harder.

In short, she's infamous for being infamous.

 

[Airgetlam]

I don't particularly like or dislike her. Her design was good, and she's cool for the sake of being cool without any distinctive personality. I think the dislike comes from the fact that XIII wasn't received well by a large portion of gamers and so when we see her being in game after game it just brings back the disappointment people felt from XIII. Like a constant reminder of how greatly anticipated the game was and how it fell short from being the game everyone wanted it to be.

 

[brainpann]

Does Lightning's character actually develope throughout the game(s)? I stopped when the game made me play as Brad Pitt and Justin Bieber.

 

[Ishida]

Someone doesn't understand Superman.

He pretty much described Superman, though.

 

[Kagari]

Does Lightning's character actually develope throughout the game(s)? I stopped when the game made me play as Brad Pitt and Justin Bieber.

No it doesn't. That's why I dislike her.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Lightning the destructive force that destroyed Squares...

Everything she's in sucks.

You want me to get excited...do something new!

 

[Coffee Dog]

I honestly can't think of a way you could defend calling lightning a character with any sort of depth. Which it kind of requires when her persoanlity is so bland on the surface.

 

[Yawnier]

I think (most) people just want to move on from the XIII saga and everything associated with it at this point including it's characters such as Lightning, Snow, Hope, etc., and call it a day there so Square can move onto new things especially with a new generation and all.

I don't even have anything against here personally, it's just something I've observed.

 

[Einhander]

I've played FFXIII and the most interesting character to me was Sazh.

I completely agree. Sazh carried the FFXIII character cast. Half the time, he was doing all the talking, and he carried himself like a real person. Lost Odyssey suffered the same fate. Jansen is similar to Sazh, in which, he was the most interesting character of the party members. Everyone else in LO was lifeless. Well, Seth had her moments.

 

[weevles]

An easy bandwagon to jump onto.

Seems like it. I don't "hate" her at all. Hate is a pretty strong word. If you don't like FFXIII, then it's easy enough to just not buy the game in the first place. FF games have running themes of recurring character references/allusions, it's just something you have to expect from the series.

 

[HolyBaikal]

I've got to admit, I don't have a perfectly informed opinion of Lightning and her characterization.

I've only played but until the later parts of Final Fantasy XIII. I didn't actually finish the game. I didn't buy Final Fantasy XIII-2, and I'm not planning on buying Lightning Returns. The only things I know are what I've played, and what I've seen elsewhere on youtube. Or what I've read about the games and sequels. Which hasn't made me interested in finishing Final Fantasy XIII.

But it does also seem like, along with not having a personality particularly appealing to me. Lighting indeed doesn't seem to have much in the way of character development. I feel like good character development would have gone a long way to making Lightning a more interesting and relateable character. In particular, what I've seen of her psychology lacks depth.

 

[leadbelly]

I don't care for her because she has so little personality. She has a backstory, yes, but backstory isn't personality.

It seems to me that they wanted a girl with 'attitude', because that would make her interesting. Square-Enix's idea of 'attitude' though, was to have her walk around with one facial expression throughout the entire game, constantly sulking.

 

[Concept17]

Comparing Lightning to Cloud is like comparing a turd to a finely carved statue.

The real disappointment is how SE handled Cloud after FF7 with silly spinoffs and movies, when people just wanted a real game. But we all know how they are when it comes to making games these days.

 

[Skinpop]

Because she reminds of the abomination that FFXIII is. She is forever linked with it and for that I will always hate her.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Character development used to be the staple of the FF franchise, and so far FF XII and FF XIII have had basically 0 character development.

But hatred toward Lightning? Not really. It just so happens she is the lead in the worst FF ever made ( and yet still better then most other JRPG's ... hmmm ... )

 

[Toth]

Again it's not the content that is the problem. It's how SE has handled it and the frequency.

FFXIV is a perfect example of this. Had they introduced the FF XI characters first, promoted them and then then took a break for awhile before the Lighnting stuff then it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

However they had to use Lightning First, and then push it with the costume and everything. Same thing with 012, adding Lightning made perfect sense, they added Vaan and other leads as well. However they couldn't just add her and let her be apart of the cast, they had to stick her dead center and remove WoL in all the promotional material.

If we had Noctis, or any other buffer and Square just let her be another FF lead then things would be much different then they are now. However they stubbornly refuse to accept that Lightning isn't Cloud, Squall, Tidus, or Cecil with giant fanbases and continue to try and push her as if she was.

FFXI does not have a sequel coming out in November though.

 

[MogCakes]

I like Lightning as a character. She was a defrosting ice queen by the end of XIII, though in XIII-2 she seems to have had a shift in paradigms.

 

[Popparoks]

lightning is such a woman, lol

 

[LuuKyK]

To people saying Lightning doesn't develop as a character. Here is how I see it. (I will quote myself from an older thread about the subject, because it remains true imo):

Well I already did, and countless times in countless threads in the past. I expected you to know that though, since you are commited to quote everything I post in these threads, But anyway. Lightning is indeed dynamic. I mean, in the beginning of XIII we have a hopeless character. She just lost her parents, is struggling to survive in a job that is not the fittest for who the society expect her to be. At the same time, the world she lives in is udergoing a massive and complex debate/questioning of who is good and who is bad. All the xenophobic treatment towards the Pulse people and the war. If that wasnt already enough she has to be able to protect her younger sister who now looks up to her as the mom and dad that she doesnt have anymore. The fact that she is overprotective about Serah is actually quite endearing, seeing as how much she rejects her relationship with Snow. I mean, she cares about her, she is the one her parents asked to take care of Serah, why all of sudden this guy appears and wants to play the role she is supposed to be playing. And why is Serah so open to him, sometimes even more than she is to her. All this is clear when you play the game and shows how non-onedimensional Lightning actually is. The fact that she struggles to deal with this throught the game is even more impressing for me because she has to work WITH Snow while trying to bring back Serah to life, who, funny enough, is the one she was trying to get AWAY from Snow. All and all in the end of the game she is able to overcome all this past/historic hate she grew about Snow and accept their love, and comes to understand there are diferent kinds of approaches as to how someone loves the other. Serah was still her sister, and was Snow's fiancee, that would not interefere in the way Serah looked up to her at all. And thats what she saw in the ending of XIII. The fun/sad fact is that in XIII-2 she was actually imprisioned in Valhalla and had to change roles, and now its Serah, the one she is supposed to protect that have to go looking for her. How bad she must have felt? All that work for nothing? How safe was Serah? There was nothing she could do. Its such a desperate time that she had to actually reach for Serah to ask for help. Isnt this a progress and clear change in her personality. She was able to ask help for the one she refused to let go of her wings in XIII. She even asked help for someone she didnt even know (Noel) and eventually let Snow help too. This all proves that all the claims that point to the fact that is bland, boring, one dimensional, etc are very false, at least imo. It really is a dynamic development throughout the two games, she went from one extreme to another. I cant wait to see how she deals when the focus is not on her or Serah in Lightning Returns. She now has something much bigger on her hands, I mean she is trying to save the world, the responsability does stack up at this point. Interesting times ahead.

 

[princemarth23]

I like her. I really don't get the hate aside from people sick of her being shoe-horned into everything. Anyone who thinks shes just a bitch never played past the start of XIII. She's a fine character and the one I always stuck with in FFXIII. XIII-2 was decent but LR is actually looking great imo.

 

[toddhunter]

She hated Snow and thought he was an idiot. What is not to love?

 

[kswiston]

Character development used to be the staple of the FF franchise, and so far FF XII and FF XIII have had basically 0 character development.

I disagree with this. Final Fantasy XII was a bit aimless in the middle, but Ashe and Basche had proper character arcs. Vaan, Balthier, and Fran less so, but they each had their moments. It was really just Penelo that was sort of there with no purpose.

In Final Fantasy XIII, Snow, Hope, and Vanille all had character development. It just wasn't very good. I agree that Lightning didn't change much.

 

[perorist]

I think she's just been overexposed.

They have her doing real life Prada modeling ffs

 

[MogCakes]

I think she's just been overexposed.

They have her doing real life Prada modeling ffs

Hey let's be fair now, that is a boss outfit.

 

[EchoedTruth]

I've always liked Lightning for reasons unknown to me.

Same, I think it's just bandwagon people and people lumping her in with the TERRIBLE FFXIII cast (minus her)

 

[EchoedTruth]

Hey let's be fair now, that is a boss outfit.

Agreed

She hated Snow and thought he was an idiot. What is not to love?

^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Silky]

I think she's just been overexposed.

They have her doing real life Prada modeling ffs

Call me when she's in Gucci mags

To people saying Lightning doesn't develop as a character. Here is how I see it. (I will quote myself from an older thread about the subject, because it remains true imo):

Thank you.

 

[MrCunningham]

I think she belongs in the Bad attempts at Attractive Character Design's thread, to be honest.

 

[silver.tongue]

I like her a lot. That said, I also like Vanille so what the fuck do I know?

 

[MogCakes]

I think she belongs in the Bad attempts at Attractive Character Design's thread, to be honest.

I don't, her design's pretty alright, though some angles of her are less than flattering.

I like her a lot. That said, I also like Vanille so what the fuck do I know?

I thought she was okay as well.

 

[Hedge]

I don't mind Lightning in XIII. It's everything that comes after XIII I can't stand. They turned her - from a character - into an anime trope that people can dress up. That's why I don't like her, at least.