-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why do people hate Lightning (FFXIII?)
- Thread starter Silky
- Start date
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Lightning is a victim of being poorly written. In the hands of a more competent writer I believe she could of had potential as a female lead protagonist.
silver.tongue
Member
Most people find her annoying and cliche, I guess. Not me. Waifu material.
It doesn't. However Lightning as it is, is being pushed to hard with how much she has been used.
Allowing another group of characters from XI or any other FF at this point would have at least made it so it didn't fan the flames of hatred/dislike people already have for Lightning.
Linkin Park
Banned
Lightning is so hot.
She's mai waifu <3
I don't know how anyone can hate her.
I mean look at how hot she is
Like, hnnnnnnngg.
How can anyone not like that?
She's mai waifu <3
I don't know how anyone can hate her.
I mean look at how hot she is
Like, hnnnnnnngg.
How can anyone not like that?
It's like she is a super hero that has absolutely no alter ego. Okay, I know her parents died and she became "LIGHTNING." Lightning scowls, punches people, is very irritable, and eventually just started serving random deities when she gets immortality and super powers. But I mean, for how poorly it can be done sometimes, there's always a Clark Kent behind Superman, a Peter Parker behind Spider-Man, a Bruce Wayne behind Batman, etc, etc, etc.
Across what will be soon three games she will be featured in, what do I really know about Claire Farron (at least enough to be able to relate with a fictional human being)? She's... a bad cook, I guess? I wouldn't even know that if I didn't stumble on a random summary of a Japanese-only FFXIII prequel novel somewhere on the internet. It's only now that I realize how much I really don't know about Lightning outside of her being "super badass action girl." Lightning and Serah rarely ever interact with each other on-screen, she kinda interacts more with Hope but that goes absolutely nowhere fast, she starts to add exactly nothing much of value to scenes later on in XIII, and she exists in XIII-2 only to give poorly written diatribes about time and paradoxes and stuff.
And... I guess Toriyama would tell me that "she's the most powerful FF Female." and leave it at that. But that's just Toriyama and the game telling me what kind of character Lightning has as opposed to actually showing me.
Lumpy Onion
Member
Even though I really like FF XIII, I can't say that I was too enthralled by Lighting as a character. Her character arc didn't feel that interesting or developed tbh. However I very much like how she is designed on a superficial level. Was my most used character to play as in FF XIII because she looked cool and was incredibly fast in combat. Guess I like her because of her appearance and combat style.
Huh? When I called for (and continue to do so) a strong female lead, I like them to have some actual depth. Thing is I didn't even hate Lightning in XIII, just didn't care as she was weak to both Sazh and Fang, that said she has all the depth and complexity of a wet paper bag.
I know, right? It's like when people complained about Lenneth from Valkyrie Profile, April Ryan from The Longest Journey/Dreamfall, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, FemShep from Mass Effect, Samus Aran from Metroid (Pre-Other M), Aya Brea from Parasite Eve (pre-3rd Birthday), Aqua from KH Birth by Sleep- actually, no, I have no idea where you're going with this.
DangerMouse
Member
Pretty much this. It also didn't help how much of XIII's story was seemingly in the datalog, which was ridiculous and that XIII took over the whole generation combined with all the stupidity coming out of S-E all at the same time.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I think she looks awesome. Like seriously one of my favorite character designs ever. I only played four hours of FF13 before giving up on it, though, so I can't speak to her personality.
Terrible voice actress, boring personality, doesn't grow as a character and is treated like she is the most well written and interesting character by Toriyama.
I'll never understand how people can compare Lightning to Squall and Cloud. The latter two actually grow as characters and only needed one game to do it.
I'll never understand how people can compare Lightning to Squall and Cloud. The latter two actually grow as characters and only needed one game to do it.
Cloud does. Squall's growth is pretty abrupt and unnatural. One minute he's an angsty mercenary teen who don't give a fuck about anyone and with one switch of a disk he's all in love with Rinoa and want to save the world and shit with no context.
That's bull.
Squall throughout disc 1 is changing. There's plenty of moments where he's already growing attached to his friends. All of disc 2 it's the same. His so called "abrupt" change is basically just him realizing he can't stop caring about the people he loves no matter how much he tried to. He already felt all of those feelings and that was what he was scared to show.
And Squall liked Rinoa when he met her at the dance. People need to remember that Squall acts like he doesn't care but we know he's actually very insecure and cares what people think of him.
Agent Gibbs
Member
First post sums it up nicely as always
This isn't true. Squall's just happens with out dialogue. Moments like at Festival where he doesn't just get up and leave shows he was growing and getting more used to his comrades. At the start of the game he would have just left and completely ignored Rinoa.
Hell when she pushes him down he reacts, and starts yelling. This is a huge step for him, but people just write it off. Could he have used more time to develope? Yes. However it's not nearly as abrupt as people like to make it out to be.
Not only that but some examples like in disc 2 where he's constantly worried about everyone's safety for whoever he sent to the military base and when he finally reunites with them he's happy to see them.
Another is his outburst in the first disc when he starts thinking of death and what people would think and say about him. Heck you can clearly tell he's happy to see Rinoa when he meets her at Timber but then she tells him that she was there to see Cid and Seifer.
At times I wonder if people think this because of Squall's "whatevers" The game does go out of it's way to show Squall acting in away that doesn't actually go along with what comes out of his mouth.
I've read that the japanese version actually highlights this alot better because his thoughts are far more varied then the NA "whatever" over and over again.
Meccanical
Member
toddhunter
Member
Are you serious?
Unknown One
Member
I do rather hang out with him than her. I rather not get the stink eye and punched the whole time.
zerokoolpsx
Member
I heard she's hot. Maybe if SE didn't try to shove her down my throat so much, I wouldn't have such dislike for her. Also, the story that involves her kinda suck. Yep. Zero attachment to this character.
RpgN
Junior Member
Glad to see others already took care of Squall. His behaviour was certainly not sudden. There were many subtle moments that showed a lot of his personality besides the examples already mentioned.
Good summary.
I don't think her (or the rest of FFXIII characters) are without flaws. They all could have been handled better and fleshed out more, there was especially more room for the last few chapters.
I do find the complaints towards her are being exaggerated. Especially her role in FFXIII-2 and how people say she's suddenly a different character.
I'm sorry, but she's in situation where she is forced to fight for a goddess. She was stuck there for god knows how long and she has seen the future and gained a lot of knowledge in that time. Do you think it makes sense for her to keep the same bitchy attitude from FFXIII, which btw she already became soft towards the end of chapter 11?
That's showing different sides depending on the situation you're put in, that did not feel like her personality was forcefully changed. It's like some people only expect one personality and it has to be consistent throughout.
Who knows what they'll do with her in Lightning Returns. I'm definitely looking forward to see wether her character develops and wether they're going to flesh her out more. I doubt they're going to flesh her out though, they didn't do that with the two previous games after all.
To people saying Lightning doesn't develop as a character. Here is how I see it. (I will quote myself from an older thread about the subject, because it remains true imo):
Good summary.
I don't think her (or the rest of FFXIII characters) are without flaws. They all could have been handled better and fleshed out more, there was especially more room for the last few chapters.
I do find the complaints towards her are being exaggerated. Especially her role in FFXIII-2 and how people say she's suddenly a different character.
I'm sorry, but she's in situation where she is forced to fight for a goddess. She was stuck there for god knows how long and she has seen the future and gained a lot of knowledge in that time. Do you think it makes sense for her to keep the same bitchy attitude from FFXIII, which btw she already became soft towards the end of chapter 11?
That's showing different sides depending on the situation you're put in, that did not feel like her personality was forcefully changed. It's like some people only expect one personality and it has to be consistent throughout.
Who knows what they'll do with her in Lightning Returns. I'm definitely looking forward to see wether her character develops and wether they're going to flesh her out more. I doubt they're going to flesh her out though, they didn't do that with the two previous games after all.
OP, I will answer your question by quoting myself from another thread. Warning: Strong language and Fabula Nova Crystallis spoilers:
My fucking jaw dropped.
Putting aside the incredible female protagonists we've already had in the series, let's go over Lightning's accomplishments:
Fabula Nova Crystallis spoilers:
- She's so insecure that she punches people instead of talking to them.
- She disapproves of her sister dating a man who volunteers to defend the city.
- When shit hits the fan, her first reaction is to go up to Eden and kill all of Cocoon's government officials.
- She abandons children (Hope; Vanille; and her own sister, Serah) and leaves them to their own demise. Edit: She also leaves Sazh to his death at the beginning of the game.
- She hallucinates regularly throughout the game, presumably due to some kind of unexplained psychosis.
- When Fang attempts to murder the entire party, Lightning shrugs it off and doesn't even bother to ask Fang why she just tried to murder all of them.
- At the end of the game, Lightning knowingly attempts to murder everyone on Cocoon by destroying its power source.
- In FF13-2, Lightning has the ability to observe all possible timelines, and she uses that power to knowingly steer Serah to her death.
- In LR, Lightning appears to go around murdering all of her former allies.
- As if Lightning's in-character persona weren't bad enough, her out-of-character persona features sexually explicit character skins and breast jiggle physics that are publicly celebrated by her designers.
Is this the definition of a "strong" protagonist?
Putting aside the incredible female protagonists we've already had in the series, let's go over Lightning's accomplishments:
Fabula Nova Crystallis spoilers:
- She's so insecure that she punches people instead of talking to them.
- She disapproves of her sister dating a man who volunteers to defend the city.
- When shit hits the fan, her first reaction is to go up to Eden and kill all of Cocoon's government officials.
- She abandons children (Hope; Vanille; and her own sister, Serah) and leaves them to their own demise. Edit: She also leaves Sazh to his death at the beginning of the game.
- She hallucinates regularly throughout the game, presumably due to some kind of unexplained psychosis.
- When Fang attempts to murder the entire party, Lightning shrugs it off and doesn't even bother to ask Fang why she just tried to murder all of them.
- At the end of the game, Lightning knowingly attempts to murder everyone on Cocoon by destroying its power source.
- In FF13-2, Lightning has the ability to observe all possible timelines, and she uses that power to knowingly steer Serah to her death.
- In LR, Lightning appears to go around murdering all of her former allies.
- As if Lightning's in-character persona weren't bad enough, her out-of-character persona features sexually explicit character skins and breast jiggle physics that are publicly celebrated by her designers.
Is this the definition of a "strong" protagonist?
RpgN
Junior Member
I remember another member responded back to your comment on that other thread.
Your arguments are very one sided for the most part, and misleading in some.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
Um.....not really.
- She's so insecure that she punches people instead of talking to them. No, she punches Snow because she is angry that her sister is essentially dead and Snow is going on and on how he can save her regardless. She's just transferring her own anger outward
- She disapproves of her sister dating a man who volunteers to defend the city. Snow is brash, engaging in illegal activities, and is all talk. Any sister should have misgivings about such a guy.
- When shit hits the fan, her first reaction is to go up to Eden and kill all of Cocoon's government officials. she wants to kill the Fal'Cie, not the people.
- She abandons children (Hope; Vanille; and her own sister, Serah) and leaves them to their own demise. She leaves Hope behind because he couldn't keep up with her. She's on a mission and she can't sit around babysitting. She was not surprised when they all showed up later on though. She figured Sazh and Vanille would be along for him.
- She hallucinates regularly throughout the game, presumably due to some kind of unexplained psychosis. What are you talking about? You mean her guilt manifesting herself? I guess we have to call Ashe delusional to since she was the only one who could see her visions too.
- When Fang attempts to murder the entire party, Lightning shrugs it off and doesn't even bother to ask Fang why she just tried to murder all of them. She knows why Fang tried to knock them: to keep her focus on becoming Ragnarok and not have Vanille talk her out. It is never stated she was trying to kill anyone. After its all done, she forgives Fang bc Fang too is the victim of Fal Cie trickery.
- At the end of the game, Lightning knowingly attempts to murder everyone on Cocoon by destroying its power source. Because she and the team had to believe in the focus they were given that promised a brighter future. There was no other choice.
- In FF13-2, Lightning has the ability to observe all possible timelines, and she uses that power to knowingly steer Serah to her death. She did not know her actions would lead to Serah's death. This is explored in the Requim of the Goddess DLC.
- In LR, Lightning appears to go around murdering all of her former allies. She's trying to save their souls before they and the world are destroyed....
- As if Lightning's in-character persona weren't bad enough, her out-of-character persona features sexually explicit character skins and breast jiggle physics that are publicly celebrated by her designers
- She disapproves of her sister dating a man who volunteers to defend the city. Snow is brash, engaging in illegal activities, and is all talk. Any sister should have misgivings about such a guy.
- When shit hits the fan, her first reaction is to go up to Eden and kill all of Cocoon's government officials. she wants to kill the Fal'Cie, not the people.
- She abandons children (Hope; Vanille; and her own sister, Serah) and leaves them to their own demise. She leaves Hope behind because he couldn't keep up with her. She's on a mission and she can't sit around babysitting. She was not surprised when they all showed up later on though. She figured Sazh and Vanille would be along for him.
- She hallucinates regularly throughout the game, presumably due to some kind of unexplained psychosis. What are you talking about? You mean her guilt manifesting herself? I guess we have to call Ashe delusional to since she was the only one who could see her visions too.
- When Fang attempts to murder the entire party, Lightning shrugs it off and doesn't even bother to ask Fang why she just tried to murder all of them. She knows why Fang tried to knock them: to keep her focus on becoming Ragnarok and not have Vanille talk her out. It is never stated she was trying to kill anyone. After its all done, she forgives Fang bc Fang too is the victim of Fal Cie trickery.
- At the end of the game, Lightning knowingly attempts to murder everyone on Cocoon by destroying its power source. Because she and the team had to believe in the focus they were given that promised a brighter future. There was no other choice.
- In FF13-2, Lightning has the ability to observe all possible timelines, and she uses that power to knowingly steer Serah to her death. She did not know her actions would lead to Serah's death. This is explored in the Requim of the Goddess DLC.
- In LR, Lightning appears to go around murdering all of her former allies. She's trying to save their souls before they and the world are destroyed....
- As if Lightning's in-character persona weren't bad enough, her out-of-character persona features sexually explicit character skins and breast jiggle physics that are publicly celebrated by her designers
Shmuely Bully
Member
Because Sazh should have been the lead protagonist.
For FFXIII her voice was annoying and she took everything seriously 120% of the time which made it seemed like the entire game took itself seriously. How bout you give her more of a personality?
Sazh was easily the best character in that game along with Fang (featuring God-tier stats)
Sazh was easily the best character in that game along with Fang (featuring God-tier stats)
Gintoki313
Banned
I actually liked Snow better then Lightning too. Snow's character was understandable. He was the usual JRPG protagonist that wants to be some kind of hero, but he can't really do everything on his own. He even tries to do things himself all the time, and the whole thing with
Hope's mom and his group of partners
I think Snow also had a little bit more development. He learned that
he wasn't the strongest in the world because of Hope (Hope told him straight to stop trying to be a hero and thinking only that he has problems), and he learned to work as a team with everyone
At least that's better then no development like Lightning.
I haven't played XIII-2 or Lightning Returns but I did play up to uh Barthandelus in XIII and in that time I saw nothing about Lightning's character that I liked. It seemed like all she did was berate the rest of the cast
She may have improved but by that point I had got so tired of XIII that I just gave it all up
She may have improved but by that point I had got so tired of XIII that I just gave it all up
PsihoPerihelion
Member
People don't hate Lightning. They hate Final Fantasy XIII.
Most Final Fantasy characters suck, and come off as B-list anime characters. I'd say this applies to FF7 and beyond. FFXIII's cast had potential, but the story ended up sucking. The writing was also lol. I like Lightning though, but I think Squares overuse of her is stupid, same with the FFXIII sequels.
My favorite Final Fantasy is XII though. While the political stuff might've been boring to some, I liked it, and the characters were pretty tolerable. From what I've seen of XV, I like the direction it's going in.
My favorite Final Fantasy is XII though. While the political stuff might've been boring to some, I liked it, and the characters were pretty tolerable. From what I've seen of XV, I like the direction it's going in.
SoulUnison
Banned
I liked her in XIII. Then XIII-2 seemed to entirely forget what her character was about to begin with.
"We make our own fate!" --> "I serve the Goddess!"
Maybe Lightning Returns will manage to save her, but if the outfits and trailers we've seen so far are enough indication, she'll just be a weird mishmash of what Square thinks is cool at the time.
"We make our own fate!" --> "I serve the Goddess!"
Maybe Lightning Returns will manage to save her, but if the outfits and trailers we've seen so far are enough indication, she'll just be a weird mishmash of what Square thinks is cool at the time.
FF V and VI have just as much anime shit as the games beyond them do.
Hours Left
Member
Snow > Lightning
But I don't hate her, I'm just indifferent. But to say she's unpopular isn't really true, she's very popular in Japan. I think most of the resentment comes from her appearing the FFXIII series, which currently has a lot of resentment towards it in the West. (Which I'm sure will eventually fade away once we have something new to complain about.)
But I don't hate her, I'm just indifferent. But to say she's unpopular isn't really true, she's very popular in Japan. I think most of the resentment comes from her appearing the FFXIII series, which currently has a lot of resentment towards it in the West. (Which I'm sure will eventually fade away once we have something new to complain about.)
Votes on one furum doesn't make her popular.
Japan has shown she isn't nearly as popular as you claim by their continued disinterest in the XIII games.
Deckard Cain
Banned
FFVI is a giant poorly written anime cliche. How do people not notice this after 20 years.
Lightning is so hot.
She's mai waifu <3
I don't know how anyone can hate her.
I mean look at how hot she is
Like, hnnnnnnngg.
How can anyone not like that?
Good taste, high standards, and self-esteem to match.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I liked her in XIII, but can see why some people wouldn't.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Why I don't like Lightning?
I've been a Final Fantasy fan since forever. So it's not the sappy melodrama of XIII that stigmatized her as a harbinger of "Square's downfall" in my eyes. In fact I really liked XIII.
It's the fact they're trying so hard to get people to like her.
The thing that's annoying is the attempted 'sexualization' of her character.
Now, I'm not some white knight here to burn a bra for the girls; I'm actually an opponent of feminism to the point that it would make the majority of GAF huff and puff and probably get me banned.
Lightning was created to be a bit androgynous. I remember the creators saying she was supposed to be like a 'female Cloud Strife'. When I look at Lightning I don't think to myself 'Would I fuck this character?'. No, because I'm not a neckbeard, and that's not the kind of character Lightning is supposed to be!
And it works! She pulled that off great and was a cool character just on the merit of her being a cool character!
For whatever reason that wasn't good enough for Square. I guess if otaku aren't making body pillows with her blushing in a provocative pose then it's 'Mission Failed'.
Now she's prancing around in skimpy Miqote gear, in every promo shot I see on their Facebook feed.
They're trying to make her this sexy poster girl for the franchise, which is never what she was supposed to be, and it doesn't work. It's very forced, and it's taking a character that I initially thought was 'pretty cool' and turning her into something that just makes me roll my eyes.
I've been a Final Fantasy fan since forever. So it's not the sappy melodrama of XIII that stigmatized her as a harbinger of "Square's downfall" in my eyes. In fact I really liked XIII.
It's the fact they're trying so hard to get people to like her.
The thing that's annoying is the attempted 'sexualization' of her character.
Now, I'm not some white knight here to burn a bra for the girls; I'm actually an opponent of feminism to the point that it would make the majority of GAF huff and puff and probably get me banned.
Lightning was created to be a bit androgynous. I remember the creators saying she was supposed to be like a 'female Cloud Strife'. When I look at Lightning I don't think to myself 'Would I fuck this character?'. No, because I'm not a neckbeard, and that's not the kind of character Lightning is supposed to be!
And it works! She pulled that off great and was a cool character just on the merit of her being a cool character!
For whatever reason that wasn't good enough for Square. I guess if otaku aren't making body pillows with her blushing in a provocative pose then it's 'Mission Failed'.
Now she's prancing around in skimpy Miqote gear, in every promo shot I see on their Facebook feed.
They're trying to make her this sexy poster girl for the franchise, which is never what she was supposed to be, and it doesn't work. It's very forced, and it's taking a character that I initially thought was 'pretty cool' and turning her into something that just makes me roll my eyes.
I agree with this. Jeez, what did they do with her. Lightning had potential to be the best FF character and when it came to FFXIII they messed it up. I couldn't stand the US voice actor and it always sounded like she had a stick up her ass and just pissed off. Sigh:
She looks incredible here and they should have kept her like this.
Similar threads
- Poll