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[mcjmetroid]

I think it just rips the innocence out of games, I feel for modern kids growing up being harassed all the time to pay more for better stuff while playing a game you or your parents bought for you.

and I can't get into a game I could never truly 100% without having to buy something extra.

It's everything about them I hate really. I have nothing against free to play games that do this but having to pay full price and then having this in a game is nuts to me and I'm never going to accept it.

 

[Spaceman292]

Live service games are shit designed to weedle money out of idiots. So if you like them you're a fucking idiot.

 

[GymWolf]

People like to say elitist shit here on gaf, why are you surprised?

Like with every genre, you have bad gaas and good gaas.

 

[GHG]

People like to say elitist shit here on gaf, why are you surprised?

Like with every genre, you have bad gaas and good gaas.

They are mostly bad though, probably 99% of them.

They are the most cynical products the industry has to offer.

 

[GymWolf]

They are mostly bad though, probably 99% of them.

They are the most cynical products the industry has to offer.

Some of them have great gameplay tho, better than many finished games.

For honor, the division, destiny, all have great gameplay\combat.

If i get my 15-30 hours of enjoyment who gives a fuck if they are "unfinished"?? I get less hours of fun from some finished games with smaller campaign and less content but those are somehow better because reasons?

Nobody force you to play 100 hours and wait for dlc, for me they are just normal games with the chance of getting more content if i really like the gameplay.

How is an incomplete plot different than when single player games end with a huge cliffhanger and you have to wait years to know how the story end?

All the gaas titles i played had an ending, they just introduce new shit with expansion etc.

Hell mh rise had a shitty ending and they added the real ending after a while and nobody said nothing, mgs5 and ff15 were more incomplete than any gaas game and they catch a fraction of the trolling.

I don't really care about gaas that much since i only played a bunch of them, and not for very long, maybe people got burned by shitty gaas and that's why they hate em a lot.

Many finished games have very few content, copy paste stuff, abrupt ending, shitty enemy variety etc, those flaws are not a gaas exclusive.

 

[Camreezie]

When i purchase a game i like to be able to play it when i choose and not feel punished for starting it at a later date e.g missing out on all the time sensitive rewards

 

[Saber]

Because the game structure is heavly modeled around this, to the point that if were to remove say mechanics the game would cease to exist. Which means something that should be normal like leveling is not because it take in mind the process of purchasing instead of training. Its a very psychological effect.

If people didn't like Live Service, it wouldn't be the most popular game type in the industry.

Because its free. People are more willing to play free games with tons of cancer mechanics as opposed to purchable games with cancer mechanics. Also mobile games are way more baits than any other. They just see the world "free" and is enought to go for it, regardless of what actually is.

 

[murstdurst]

What's not to understand about it?
Some of these games have season passes with actual content that you miss out on if you don't actively play in the time when the pass is active. They expect you to play when you maybe have no desire to do so.
Example for me is overwatch. I have played that game since release and i have had many breaks in between, some lasting almost a year. But i was never out of content, i had all new maps and heroes.
Now in ow2 they changed it to more live service complete with season pass and all... and already i have missed out on a hero. I have no access to it, unless i pay up. And giving how long your break is, can be more than buying a new game straight up.

So still, op, you do not understand why some of us hate live service games? Because it makes you pay more for less, "forces" you to play when you may not feel like it. And in this case i mentioned, they actually stopped support and even the ability to play the first game (ow1).

 

[mrmustard]

What you call people are just the enthusiastic forum dwellers. They hate 90% of the games that sell like hot cake and have the most players. Forum Dwellers love their cinematics, Souls games, RPGs and japanese stuff.

 

[64bitmodels]

Some of them have great gameplay tho, better than many finished games.

Yes. The good gameplay is what helps us tolerate the shitty live service mechanics. We're usually better off without them

 

[Generic]

It's a trend, therefore hipsters hate it.

 

[Lasha]

Yes. The good gameplay is what helps us tolerate the shitty live service mechanics. We're usually better off without them

Play games like that and ignore everything except the game.

 

[SmokedMeat]

They’re hamster wheels designed to keep you running for that carrot on a stick.

I have no desire to play any game like that.

 

[Madserb2023]

Because it's a set of mechanics that has a game attached to it, not the other way around.

 

[justiceiro]

They are bipolar, that's the only explanation. If you release a game that doesn't flood you with useless content, next thing you know fans of that game will create topics on forums crying that "X game was left to die" "why didn't the developers 'supported' it???"

At this point, I think it's better if companies just ignores the cry of fanbases. It's worthless.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I think it's important to note that when the Battle Pass first got popular, it was universally praised. We were dealing with loot boxes at the time and the Battle Pass was seen as a breath of fresh air.

Now it gets a lot of hate, not because it's bad, but because it's popular.

 

[Games of Today]

Because literally none of the games that have live service features are good.

The player shouldn't be forced to only play only that game so they can get a cosmetic item or weapon skin at week 49.

The fact that literally everything outside of new weapons are timed exclusives for games such as Battlefield, Apex, Fortnite is an absolute disgrace.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Better question:

Why do people that love these games hate themselves so much?

Couldn't help myself.

 

[SlimySnake]

As someone who LOVED Destiny, Anthem, Metal Gear Survive and somewhat enjoyed Destiny 2, sinking thousands of hours into these games, I can tell you exactly why. They've become a job.

The core combat in these games is exceptional. Almost all the Destiny's raids are probably the best designed levels in the last 10 years. There is probably no TPS that plays better than Anthem with some of the most original and inventive weapon design in the genre. But all of it comes at a cost. You have to sink in hundreds of hours to see the best content and play with the best weapons in the game. Most of the time doing the same thing over and over again.

 

[Valonquar]

Looter\Live service games just take the laziest approaches possible to extend the life of an otherwise short game. Pump out the same 8 enemy models but keep over-inflating their HP to the point of complete absurdity. Spend 3 times as much in town IDing or selling trash before portaling back into the game for 5 minutes to fill up again. Gatcha game loot percentages to keep you endlessly grinding for that carrot on a stick...just to do 20 to 50more DPS in BiS and still die in seconds regardless.

 

[Aion002]

Daily chores, limited time events and FOMO tactics.


Also, the most important thing to me: when the servers are shutdown or even when the game is updated, removing things you like and adding things you dislike, that's the end, you can never play it again the way you played.

For example, I used love Warframe a couple of years ago, however, each update made the game faster and faster, the game changed so much to me, that the Warframe that I liked simply doesn't exist anymore.

 

[murstdurst]

Now it gets a lot of hate, not because it's bad, but because it's popular.

Not really. But apparently reasons doesn't matter. Of which there a lot and they hare merit.
Only people that have no argument or even the desire to have a discussion, use the "they hate because it's popular" excuse. It's like a child sticking its fingers in their ears and yelling.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Not really. But apparently reasons doesn't matter. Of which there a lot and they hare merit.
Only people that have no argument or even the desire to have a discussion, use the "they hate because it's popular" excuse. It's like a child sticking its fingers in their ears and yelling.

I might as well say that those arguments in most cases are just sweeping generalizations based on word of mouth and that people who complain about these things never even gave those games a serious try.

It's always the same old shit tbh. Back when MMORPGS were all the craze, there was a constant voice of dissent about them from certain portion of the community. Same with first person shooters, mobas, battle royales or whatever other fad was en vogue in its time. Looter shooters or live service games aren't inherently bad just because they're live service/looters. They're perfectly fine genres enjoyed by millions of gamers with some inevitable examples of lazy copycats that try to jump on the badwagon.

 

[Halo is Back]

Because they are less about being fun and more about sucking a player into an endless repetitive loot-grinding cycle, they are also filled with microtransactions and enough currency options to make your head spin. Most free-to-play games (and even paid AAA games) require you to pony up some cash even to get the decent stuff.

 

[Rhazkul]

In the beginning, they were entertaining and new. In the meantime, I can no longer stand them. And I have absolutely no desire for the grind.

This. I downloaded Warframe again the other day...was absolutely hooked during the lockdowns 2 years ago. Grinded my ass all the way up to MR 14, getting some Kuva weapons, Prime Frames...but the fire is gone. I played a few new missions, trying to grind for the new Warframe but i always asked myself "why the fuck am doing this? so i can grind even more, with new shiny toys ad nauseam? Doing the same missions over and over again?" It got dull. These games are designed to get you hooked and describing a game as "addictive" isn't really a positive thing.

 

[STARSBarry]

As someone who LOVED Destiny, Anthem, Metal Gear Survive and somewhat enjoyed Destiny 2, sinking thousands of hours into these games, I can tell you exactly why. They've become a job.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This. I downloaded Warframe again the other day...was absolutely hooked during the lockdowns 2 years ago. Grinded my ass all the way up to MR 14, getting some Kuva weapons, Prime Frames...but the fire is gone. I played a few new missions, trying to grind for the new Warframe but i always asked myself "why the fuck am doing this? so i can grind even more, with new shiny toys ad nauseam? Doing the same missions over and over again?" It got dull. These games are designed to get you hooked and describing a game as "addictive" isn't really a positive thing.

This is fine.

You get over them eventually. Is this supposed to be the biggest criticism against them?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Not really. But apparently reasons doesn't matter. Of which there a lot and they hare merit.
Only people that have no argument or even the desire to have a discussion, use the "they hate because it's popular" excuse. It's like a child sticking its fingers in their ears and yelling.

Go back to threads in 2017. The Battle Pass was universally praised as being pro consumer. It was a clear upgrade over the loot box system that was "plaguing" the market at the time.

There's basically no merit to the criticism. Certain people just don't like multiplayer so they'll attack it by proxy.

 

[murstdurst]

I might as well say that those arguments in most cases are just sweeping generalizations based on word of mouth and that people who complain about these things never even gave those games a serious try.

It's always the same old shit tbh. Back when MMORPGS were all the craze, there was a constant voice of dissent about them from certain portion of the community. Same with first person shooters, mobas, battle royales or whatever other fad was en vogue in its time. Looter shooters or live service games aren't inherently bad just because they're live service/looters. They're perfectly fine genres enjoyed by millions of gamers with some inevitable examples of lazy copycats that try to jump on the badwagon.

A little up a gave a personal example of something.
The move from lootbox to season pass has ruined overwatch for me. - This is just one example. But a lot of ypu still want to boil it down to "just hate for the sake".
This is not always that. There are many reasons to dislike service games but it seems to fall on deaf ears here.

 

[Rhazkul]

It felt like a second job. Especially having to wait literal days to craft stuff. It is fun in spurts and like the mobility and combat but I don't find it fun doing the same levels over and over and over and over and over and over just to get a rare drop needed for one crafting component.

Try getting the new Warframe (Citrine). You have to do the same fucking defense mission and her blueprint drops at round 4 (20 minutes playtime) and a 4-5% drop chance.

 

[Elder Legend]

I don’t mind them if they are done right.

 

[yet_another_alt]

They're fine. Only thing I don't like is FOMO when they sunset old content.

 

[The Stig]

almost always boring, repetitive and predatory.

 

[Pfroebbel]

- Grind
- Fomo (God i hate this so much)
- they take so much Time per Week and that every week that you have to plan your Life around them. When you are playing in a Goup.

So Destiny: Get Powerlevel Tuesday, Raid Wednesday, Raid Thursday, make More Powerlevel Grind and weekly Shit @ begin of each Season. Some Weeks it gets better but you can not Play more than one of this cause it consumes so much time and you have hard set Dates based on Resets.

I hate (to play) it

 

[TheUsual]

When you're an adult who doesn't have a lot of free time, it becomes very difficult to like meaningless grind

This is a big factor. I'm 36 and slowly getting out of the target demographic for this type of stuff. I could definitely see myself back as a teen/early 20s kid chasing the grind with GaaS. I did the first Halo Infinite battle pass and had enough of that grind even after they made adjustments.

Shooter looters are fun, at least I overall like how Borderlands does it, but that'd about it.

Don't know if you would call it GaaS, but I spent a good amount of cash in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer for the random item drops. Never again.

 

[Drizzlehell]

A little up a gave a personal example of something.
The move from lootbox to season pass has ruined overwatch for me. - This is just one example. But a lot of ypu still want to boil it down to "just hate for the sake".
This is not always that. There are many reasons to dislike service games but it seems to fall on deaf ears here.

Well, I'm not saying that there aren't any bad live service games. I'm just saying that they're not all bad.

They're fine. Only thing I don't like is FOMO when they sunset old content.

I'd say there's no FOMO if you DGAF.

 

[Nydius]

You get over them eventually.

I guess we can let all the psychologists that specialize in treating gambling addiction know they can move on you cracked the code.

"Should we do anything about Billy Bob blowing his entire life savings at the slots?"
"Nah, he'll get over them eventually."

Live service games use the exact same psychological manipulation as casino gaming. The function of their game, no matter how good, is secondary to keeping you paying to play. They cloak themselves with marketing about being "fun, engaging, social" while hiding the odds and giving players just enough of a dopamine hit to keep them glued to the screen. I live in the Indian Native American Casino Capitol of the World and I see these kinds of manipulative ads all the time.

None of us are immune. Hell, I'm over here practically counting down the hours to the Diablo 4 beta. But I'm going into it eyes wide open, knowing exactly what ABK is hoping to get from me. A lot of people get hooked in and don't realize it until it's far too late.

The Battle Pass was universally praised as being pro consumer.

I don't remember seeing people call battle passes "pro consumer".
I do remember seeing people saying they prefer battle passes because they were less shitty and less random than loot boxes.
Less shitty predatory behavior is still predatory behavior.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I don't remember seeing people call battle passes "pro consumer".
I do remember seeing people saying they prefer battle passes because they were less shitty and less random than loot boxes.
Less shitty predatory behavior is still predatory behavior.

I remember a lot of praise. People were shocked that the 950v buck battle pass gave you 1050v bucks if you completed it. This "predatory" nonsense started bubbling up around 2020 when every game was switching over to the (superior) model.

I feel this mob mentality shares a lot on common with Creed/Nickelback/Imagine Dragons hate. The vast majority of people can't explain why they're bad bands, they just know certain groups don't like them so they won't either.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Because they reward sinking endless amounts of money and time into them like a bottemless pit, rather than more skill-focused or finite progression.

 

[Beechos]

Because they feel companies put most of their resources/effort into these games and don't make the games they want to play.

Alot of these games are designed to have addictive qualities that exploit certain people.

 

[DragonNCM]

Easy moneygrab shit.....
Pointless to play.......

 

[Dr. Claus]

Go back to threads in 2017. The Battle Pass was universally praised as being pro consumer. It was a clear upgrade over the loot box system that was "plaguing" the market at the time.

There's basically no merit to the criticism. Certain people just don't like multiplayer so they'll attack it by proxy.

No. Nice revisionist history though. Only a handful of people were genuinely celebrating/promoting Battle Passes. The vast majority were stating that it was a clear upgrade over Lootboxes, but was still a shit system and that gaming would be far better without it. That hasn't changed to this day.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Pointless to play.......

Aren't all video games pointless to play, at the end of the day?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

No. Nice revisionist history though. Only a handful of people were genuinely celebrating/promoting Battle Passes. The vast majority were stating that it was a clear upgrade over Lootboxes, but was still a shit system and that gaming would be far better without it. That hasn't changed to this day.

Neither you or me are going to be able to conjure up the evidence to prove our position.

All I know is the industry fully embraced the BP because gamers prefer it. That is obvious to see.

 

[norm9]

I like The Division 2, but all these games are just about numbers going up. That gets boring and so the curtain gets pulled back that all you're doing is running on a treadmill with no destination.

I also love Borderlands. Glad that isn't a GaaS. It's complete in the box, all the guns and shit are in the game, its just about you finding them instead of waiting for a game update.

 

[Fuz]

They're great - ideally.

But in reality, they get completely ruined by scummy business practices, mtx, fomo and other psychological tactics.

Also, as other people noted, they're designed to feel like a job. I don't want a job in a game, I want a stress-free game.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Neither you or me are going to be able to conjure up the evidence to prove our position.

All I know is the industry fully embraced the BP because gamers prefer it. That is obvious to see.

Your delusional. The industry embraced the BP because governments were shutting down Lootboxes and it was another way to push MTX and endless grinds. They don't give two flying fucks about gamers and they absolutely don't "prefer" it. They just need a handful of whales to buy into this idiocy.

I wonder why it is you are defending this so hard.

 

[Klayzer]

because most of them heavily rely on MP or co-op which I personally dont give a fuck about and most of them have shitty ass loot system which I despise.

I just want proper complete game without ANY live service, GaaS, F2P or any other crap. I dont mind DLC if its similar to Torna from Xenoblade 2 or Old Hunters in Bloodborne, I will gladly welcome those type of DLCs.

 

[DragonNCM]

Aren't all video games pointless to play, at the end of the day?

Atleast some of them are better then books & movies & you can learn something new.....

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Your delusional. The industry embraced the BP because governments were shutting down Lootboxes and it was another way to push MTX and endless grinds. They don't give two flying fucks about gamers and they absolutely don't "prefer" it. They just need a handful of whales to buy into this idiocy.

I wonder why it is you are defending this so hard.

Whales don't increase a games popularity to any real extent. Profitability sure, but not popularity.

All of todays most popular games have Battle passes because the market (ie people) prefer it to all other business models.

I defend common sense and rational thought hard. I'm the Lorenzo Lamas of clear thinking.