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Why do people who don't like FFXII's battle system have the dumbest excuses?
- Thread starter U5230
- Start date
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I don't like it... becuase I don't like it.
That's reason enough right there.
That's reason enough right there.
I <3 Katamari
Banned
Why are you so defensive of a game demo?
The demo sucked. It wasn't fun at all. Some of those reasons are perfectly valid, but most people know the final game could very well be much much better. You can't judge FFXII based on the demo.
But the demo itself? Bad.
Oh, and I don't remember just "pressing attack" in FFX. I thought it had the most strategy in battle in any PlayStation FF. Instead of just "pressing attack", FFXII does it for you? ... What? The point is that in the demo you almost never needed to do anything else but attack. That's why it felt like the game was playing itself for you for some people.
Moving the camera, yeah, that's kind of a lame reason to knock FFXII. But I understand it. It didn't really bother me as much as I think it doesn't work as well as static camera angles. I want to play the game with the static camera angles that move cinematically along with the character, like in FFX (but improved a lot).
I have faith in Square (although I am a little worried, which I never have been for an FF) to make this a brilliant game. I just know that it's not what I want at this point and based on what I know/played. I don't want it to be FFXI-influenced. I want it to play like an FF. And the demo didn't feel at all like an FF.
But that's just me (and others, obviously). Why does it matter to you if people feel that way? The game will sell shitloads, you'll get it, and most likely love it. So who cares?
The demo sucked. It wasn't fun at all. Some of those reasons are perfectly valid, but most people know the final game could very well be much much better. You can't judge FFXII based on the demo.
But the demo itself? Bad.
Oh, and I don't remember just "pressing attack" in FFX. I thought it had the most strategy in battle in any PlayStation FF. Instead of just "pressing attack", FFXII does it for you? ... What? The point is that in the demo you almost never needed to do anything else but attack. That's why it felt like the game was playing itself for you for some people.
Moving the camera, yeah, that's kind of a lame reason to knock FFXII. But I understand it. It didn't really bother me as much as I think it doesn't work as well as static camera angles. I want to play the game with the static camera angles that move cinematically along with the character, like in FFX (but improved a lot).
I have faith in Square (although I am a little worried, which I never have been for an FF) to make this a brilliant game. I just know that it's not what I want at this point and based on what I know/played. I don't want it to be FFXI-influenced. I want it to play like an FF. And the demo didn't feel at all like an FF.
But that's just me (and others, obviously). Why does it matter to you if people feel that way? The game will sell shitloads, you'll get it, and most likely love it. So who cares?
I <3 Katamari
Banned
Himuro said:
.. Yeah, you avoided the question by asking another one.
That's my point. People are saying the demo sucks and you're getting defensive. And my question is WHY.
And just so you know, not everyone is "going ape shit" over it. Tons of people love the demo. I thought it was generally loved at GAF. It's okay that some people don't like it.
Himuro said:
I think it's obvious why people are going ape shit over it... FF has a long following and for the most part the battle system hasn't changed that much, and while in terms of look and feel the game has matured this new FF from what I've seen and heard feels much different than any of the previous changes(regardless of the actual reality of that statement i.e. how much its changed)... Change always brings grumbling so we'll have to see how this all pans out.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
well obviously this guy wasnt around for FF 1 - 11.
I <3 Katamari
Banned
Zilch said:
Yes, I said I thought most people on GAF liked it.
But I didn't. And I know many people that didn't.
I completely disagree as the series isn't stale. FFX felt like a breath of fresh air for me, for a number of reasons (which don't matter as this isn't an FFX thread). I don't want the series to change. I mean if this chage ends up being awesome, then I won't care. I just didn't like the demo.
DarienA said:
Exactly, and this change could be the best thing to ever happen to series.
And it might not.
No one knows yet, so people should just chill out and wait a few months.
The only problem with most of these people is that they're blind and/or conservative fanboys who don't like it when their favorite series gets a complete revamp. I'm all for it though, since turn-based is getting real old at the moment and the series seriously needed a big overhaul anyway to keep feeling fresh and interesting. I'm really looking forward to the new battlesystem and all the other changes made to the formula. I hope it'll do to the FF franchise what RE4 did to the Resident Evil franchise.
Don't get me wrong, I like Final Fantasy, have played all of them and they're among my favorite games, but I hate stupid conservatism like: "Please don't change it, I like the way it is! Screw innovation and fresh ideas! I wont go to any length to learn the new gameplay mechanics 'cause it'll suck anyway!"
Don't get me wrong, I like Final Fantasy, have played all of them and they're among my favorite games, but I hate stupid conservatism like: "Please don't change it, I like the way it is! Screw innovation and fresh ideas! I wont go to any length to learn the new gameplay mechanics 'cause it'll suck anyway!"
I <3 Katamari
Banned
R0nn said:
I'm sure a lot of pepole are like that, but I don't think most people are like that. Most people I know that hate the demo are barely even FF fans. I think the demo sucks because I don't like that kind of mmorpg gameplay. So of course I don't want it in an offline FF.
EDIT: I like Wait mode more than Active mode, by the way. Active mode is FAR too hectic and everything is happening too fast. And yes, you can kind of control everyone, but there's no reason to.
Red Blaster
Member
I remember Bebpo having an awesome defense for FFXII's combat system, shame that I can't remember any of it.
Red Blaster
Member
Himuro said:
Was a long detailed post about why FFXII is like, gonna totally rock.
Kabuki Waq
Member
they dont like it cause its actually fun and has some decent tension this time around rather than overblown cut scenes before every attack.
Drinky Crow
Banned
I can't stand the battle system NOT because I want turn-based, but because it feels like FFXI and its shit-ass combat system.
Kabuki Waq said:
FU overblown cut scenes have become some of the best parts of the combat system! I love the overblown cutscenes for summons, special attacks, etc... regardless of how they don't gel with what's "really" happening to the character(hmm he just blew up the planet... we should all be dead...right?)...
IAmtheFMan
Member
My biggest problem is that there won't be any new BATTLE MUSIC. Yeah, they change it up for the bosses but still. Anyhow, with Uematsu out, I don't think it's gonna make a huge difference, as what I've heard from the score of XII sounds okay at best.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
game felt like an mmo.
AndoCalrissian
Member
To be honest, the camera does seriously suck. It's not that it should all be automatic, but it should at the very least attempt to stay behind the main character or show the entire party. From what I remember, it does not. I'll play the demo again later to look into that. At the very least, you should be able to invert the camera controls, but I'll chalk that up to it being a demo.
Other than that, great character design, and a fun gameplay system that is a pretty drastic departure.
Other than that, great character design, and a fun gameplay system that is a pretty drastic departure.
I <3 Katamari
Banned
IAmtheFMan said:
Really? I thought the music was incredible. The best part of the demo.
Well, I can explain why I didn't like it:
1) How can we really call it a Final Fantasy game when it consists of watching a radar screen to make sure you're out of the attack range of the enemy? You know what game that really is? Metal Gear.
2) Yes, if you turn on "wait" mode and decide to control everything, it's basically like "Active Time Battle" mode in FFIV and above. But that wasn't the default setting, and offering the option to let the computer figure out the battle strategy for you severly diminishes the "battle strategy" aspect of the game. Left to its own devices, the game is content to let you walk up to an enemy and let the computer fight it. What's fun about that? What's Final Fantasy about that? This type of gameplay is necessary for MMORPG, but not for single-player.
3) In the demo, environments were startlingly bland. I mean, I was either looking at hallucinoegenic brick patterns or an empty, featureless beach. The boss fights and the summon animations reminded me that "oh yeah, this is a huge-budget fantasy game from my favorite game series, not some Capcom action game."
I was totally disappointed in the demo. The FF series is not infallible -- it's last console releases being FF11, FFX-2, and FF: Chronicles, all of which suck IMO. It's okay to admit that a game from a beloved series isn't good, even (or especially) when your anticipation is running high.
1) How can we really call it a Final Fantasy game when it consists of watching a radar screen to make sure you're out of the attack range of the enemy? You know what game that really is? Metal Gear.
2) Yes, if you turn on "wait" mode and decide to control everything, it's basically like "Active Time Battle" mode in FFIV and above. But that wasn't the default setting, and offering the option to let the computer figure out the battle strategy for you severly diminishes the "battle strategy" aspect of the game. Left to its own devices, the game is content to let you walk up to an enemy and let the computer fight it. What's fun about that? What's Final Fantasy about that? This type of gameplay is necessary for MMORPG, but not for single-player.
3) In the demo, environments were startlingly bland. I mean, I was either looking at hallucinoegenic brick patterns or an empty, featureless beach. The boss fights and the summon animations reminded me that "oh yeah, this is a huge-budget fantasy game from my favorite game series, not some Capcom action game."
I was totally disappointed in the demo. The FF series is not infallible -- it's last console releases being FF11, FFX-2, and FF: Chronicles, all of which suck IMO. It's okay to admit that a game from a beloved series isn't good, even (or especially) when your anticipation is running high.
1.) Demo's content was garbage.
2.) Game's battle system was boring, unintuitive, and heavily reminded me of the three months I wasted playing World of Warcraft.
3.) Camera DID suck. It wasn't game-breaking, but it was tragically implemented. Unacceptable in this day and age, particularly in an RPG.
All IMHO, of course.
2.) Game's battle system was boring, unintuitive, and heavily reminded me of the three months I wasted playing World of Warcraft.
3.) Camera DID suck. It wasn't game-breaking, but it was tragically implemented. Unacceptable in this day and age, particularly in an RPG.
All IMHO, of course.
SolidSnakex
Member
belgurdo said:
Because DQ8 isn't trying to have a battle system that takes after the worst RPG's on the planet, MMORPG's.
IMO all of the Final Fantasies since VII have just been trying to "fix" something that wasn't broken. Experimentation is grand, don't get me wrong, it's just that the whole series has become seriously schizophrenic and even self-loathing because every game has been such a departure from the last.
TheJollyCorner
Member
I <3 Katamari said:
I agree- but I still have faith that the overall game will be amazing.
Ghengis Cohen
Banned
Nothing at all. People shouldn't play if they don't like it. I don't think I could stomach another random battle FF and probably wouldn't play it.Himuro said:
Himuro said:
Nothing wrong with it inherently... necessarily. But I do NOT want to play an offline console RPG that plays like an online MMORPG. I didn't like FFXI at all, I won't like a more traditional FFXII that plays like FFXI.
Different doesn't necessarily mean worse, but sometimes different is just plain unnecessary.
Mejilan said:
There isn't anything inherently "game-breaking" about this. If they want to change simply for the sake of changing, that is up to them. I think it is wrong to say they've experimented with the battle system since FF6 and 7. They aren't experimenting; they are purposefully changing certain elements in each game to keep the gameplay fresh.
I don't understand how everyone could love the combat in a game like FF9 and then say something like FFXII is simply press the X button and sit there. So what if it plays like an MMORPG? FFXI as an MMORPG is not like many of the other RPGs. You can have a HUGE level of control over 12. I don't really see what the problem is...just configure the game so that it's basically old style FFs in a 3d plane.
LiquidMamba
Member
Getting rid of random battles is a huge plus to me.
Teknopathetic
Member
Reminded me way too much of FFXI which, as most of us know, was total shit.
Playing through it again as we speak (just got out of the fire cavern) and I really disagree with you. The system has a ton of customization potential.
Anyway, I just felt that since you were talking about game fundamentals and radically changing fundamentals of a series in a negative fashion would appear game breaking.
Anyway, I just felt that since you were talking about game fundamentals and radically changing fundamentals of a series in a negative fashion would appear game breaking.
Fatal bugs are game-breaking. Horrendous design decisions can be game-breaking.
Unwelcome changes to the core mechanics of a long-standing and well-established franchise can be fun-breaking or unwelcome, but unless they represent a total assfuck of a horrendous design decision, can't be called game-breaking, IMHO.
Unwelcome changes to the core mechanics of a long-standing and well-established franchise can be fun-breaking or unwelcome, but unless they represent a total assfuck of a horrendous design decision, can't be called game-breaking, IMHO.
Himuro said:
Nah, FFVIII was by far my most reviled FF. The ONLY good thing about it was the music, IMHO. Oh, and the graphics were pretty good for their time. Everything else, characters, story, world, gameplay, was utter filth, IMHO.
I'll keep my mind open on FFXII... this won't be the first time I've been totally turned off by a shitty demo only to be pleasantly surprised by the final product.
I dig innovation. FFXII demo wasn't innovative. It was boring dungeons and boring MMORPG combat in an offline game. That's a step back, not innovation, IMHO.