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[Mejilan]

Haven't we already had one semantic argument over the meaning of atrocious?

Point is, FFXII isn't an objective unwelcome change. That's the argument. It's, for myself and others, a necessary change that already rocks. Suit yourself.

Yeah, so keeping that in mind, you should already know what I mean by my adjectives. Should make this discussion easier!

I was speaking in general, about unwelcome changes, not specifically about FFXII. See my response to Himuro right above this.

 

[Tarazet]

And what's wrong with changing the games in that way?

The role of experimentation should be to come up with something better than what's out there. I have yet to be convinced that the FFXII demo represents an advancement over the thoroughly traditional RPG it was bundled with, though I do see tremendous potential.

 

[Y2Kev]

Nah, FFVIII was by far my most reviled FF. The ONLY good thing about it was the music, IMHO. Oh, and the graphics were pretty good for their time. Everything else, characters, story, world, gameplay, was utter filth, IMHO.

Is this some type of humorous litotes? Utter filth? Come on. The battle system was controversial, but the character and story development (minus the twist, if you care to debate that I already cede it) was top notch. I happen to like the battle system.

I love 7 and I like 6, 8, and 4. I think 8 has a TON of great pieces that most people just never really put together.

I dig innovation. FFXII demo wasn't innovative. It was boring dungeons and boring MMORPG combat in an offline game. That's a step back, not innovation, IMHO.

It was a mission-based environment in a nonmission-based game with a fully capable party that demonstrated little skill progression in an attempt to let people get a feel for the battle system. I REALLY don't think it felt like any regular MMORPG and I fear that axiom may become all too common.

 

[Community Forum]

 

[Mejilan]

I've played quite a bit of WoW and quite a little of FFXI. And the FFXII demo, of course.

I found the gameplay and fun-factor (or lackthereof) overlaps between the three games to be prominent and unfortunate.

Edit - Just to get it out there, here's a one word rating for each of the core FFs I've played:

Love FFI
Hate FFII
Bleh FFIII
Love FFIV
Bleh FFV
Love FFVI
Hate FFVII
Hate FFVIII
Love FFIX
Bleh FFX
Hate FFX-2
Hate FFXI

Draw from that what you will.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think you are the only person I've ever come across to play WoW and not love it.

You have eleven (1 to X-2) games in your style. Let me have my one.

 

[Mejilan]

Played WoW for 3 months. I may try it again when the expansion hits, if my mage isn't killed off (suspended ages ago). I've never played a game more futile or pointless.

 

[Mejilan]

From the Peter Pan movie, right? I really, really dug that movie!

 

[Y2Kev]

wtf segatavis:

Mejilan:

barf FFI
shit FFII
poopy FFIII
love FFIV
spit, loathe, hate, shit FFV
love FFVI
<3 FFVII
LOVE FFVIII
like FFIX
LOVE FFX
like FFX-2
LOVE FFT

MY TURN!!!

LOLZ FFI
Huh FF2
Plz Expand 4 DS zomg FF3
Doubleplus like FF4
BYE SAKAGUCHI FF5
Love FF6
FREAKING OMG LOVE FAV GAME EVER FF7
Love FF8
Like FF9
LOVE FFX
Like FFX-2 (same level as 9)

 

[Y2Kev]

That man is old school. I really want to see how BD and LO play...are they gonna play like a modern RPG or are we to expect almost job-style combat?

 

[Community Forum]

From the Peter Pan movie, right? I really, really dug that movie!

Yah, I always thought he looks kind of like Vaan. I checked out some forums and I am not alone in thinking this!

 

[Mejilan]

So basically mejilan, you're a traditionalist and will hate the games that try to be different, am i rite?

I can see where you'd infer that from my list, but if you look a little deeper, perhaps not.

FFVI and FFVII were, from a gameplay standpoint, extremely similar. Actually, I'd say that VII was really more of a de-evolved VI, from a purely gameplay perspective. (Less chars per battle, less ambitions and unique dungeons, similar skill, magic, and combat system, but with a decreased importance in unique chars, etc.). I disliked VII primarily due to its shoddy presentation, story, and characters. Also, I was really hoping for some new gameplay, and wound up with a severely gimped version of FFVI.

IX rocked, yes, because it went back to the roots and I totally dug the FFT-style learning of skills and spells. Just too cool. Story was kinda crap, particularly towards the end.

X had cool combat, but again, I found the world, characters, and story to be just... ugh. Don't get me started on X2.

II, III, V, XI, and X-2 I either found pretty meh or downright bad primarily due to flawed or broken gameplay.

It's not really a "traditional" vs "non-traditional" RPG breakdown, I think.

 

[Mejilan]

Yah, I always thought he looks kind of like Vaan. I checked out some forums and I am not alone in thinking this!

I DO BELIEVE IN FAIRIES! I DO!! I DO!!!

 

[Y2Kev]

I can see where you'd infer that from my list, but if you look a little deeper, perhaps not.

I disliked VII primarily due to its shoddy presentation, story, and characters.

You don't like games. I suggest crocheting.

Just my opinion. I also think that the materia system added a ton more depth than could be afforded by another character or the Esper system. Sounds a lot like you think VI is a devolved version of 4 and 5 due to the lack of character specialization.

 

[Community Forum]

Vaan has nothing to do with liking FFXII's battle system.

True, but I didn't want to start my own thread just to post a picture of Jeremy Sumpter.

 

[Mejilan]

You don't like games. I suggest crocheting.

Just my opinion. I also think that the materia system added a ton more depth than could be afforded by another character or the Esper system. Sounds a lot like you think VI is a devolved version of 4 and 5 due to the lack of character specialization.

Blah. I own waaaaaay too many games to not like them.

I HATED the Materia system, since it essentially destroyed the gameplay-reason for having different characters. You weren't powering up characters, just a couple of fucking jewels. Oh, losing a character you've been powering up for the past few days? No problem, let me strip him of his magical jewelry.

Ugh.

FFIX. Well, going back to the fantasy roots was a welcome touch. 4 party members was awesome. Having full sets of inventory to play with was an AWESOME nod to classic games, as was having non-unique weaponry. The way characters powered up also brought back memories. Some nice classic tunes too. Story was definitely not its strong point, as I already mentioned.

 

[Tarazet]

I've played quite a bit of WoW and quite a little of FFXI. And the FFXII demo, of course.

I found the gameplay and fun-factor (or lackthereof) overlaps between the three games to be prominent and unfortunate.

Edit - Just to get it out there, here's a one word rating for each of the core FFs I've played:

Love FFI
Hate FFII
Bleh FFIII
Love FFIV
Bleh FFV
Love FFVI
Hate FFVII
Hate FFVIII
Love FFIX
Bleh FFX
Hate FFX-2
Hate FFXI

Draw from that what you will.

You hate freedom?

I'm playing through the FFXII demo again right now. Actually, my characters are fighting as I'm typing this. I can't decide if this is good.

 

[Y2Kev]

Blah. I own waaaaaay too many games to not like them.

I HATED the Materia system, since it essentially destroyed the gameplay-reason for having different characters. You weren't powering up characters, just a couple of fucking jewels. Oh, losing a character you've been powering up for the past few days? No problem, let me strip him of his magical jewelry.

You can do the SAME exact thing with Espers in VI. I have Sabin as a healer now because he has a ton of HP. Yes, the "character" learns the spell and it's not tied to "magical jewelery" (you say this as if it is demeaning, but in reality that's quite the truth), but it's basically the same. In fact, I think it's more delineated in FF7.

In 7, Aeris was going to be a black or white mage no matter how many materias you equipped her with. In FF6, a bunch of characters seem to be in the center of the "square grid (heh)" so to speak. I have Terra as a powerful attacker, Edgar attacking, Sabin healing, and Locke as a magician. To me, the Espers function as materia...I see your point, but when it comes to practicality, I don't see a big difference.

 

[Tarazet]

You can turn gabmits off. Its your own fault and problem if you lack the common knowledge of gambits, so no that definitely ISN'T good.

I realize that I can turn it off, but I don't feel like going through the trouble of assigning actions to every one of my characters. For some reason this game brings out the lazy bastard in me.

 

[Mejilan]

FFVII took the one thing I didn't like about FFVI and made it worse. "Blank template" characters. I thought it was much more offensive in VII than in VI. VI still had characters with very special unique skills... just perhaps some had too many and others too few.

FFIX did have laggy combat... and just crap load times in general. Didn't ruin it for me, however.

Don't bring DDS here. That game is a dungeon hack, pure and simple, and really can't be compared to a FF, IMHO.

 

[Rorschach]

..I hate you Himuro.

.

 

[Tarazet]

...lol..

Hey, if I can get away with typing on GAF while the game is unfolding, something is wrong, because a) I am not engaged in the game, meaning I have nothing invested in it and could turn it off at any time without feeling any loss, and b) it's too easy. Lord knows I couldn't survive Suikoden II if all I did was use the Auto command.

 

[Mejilan]

Dungeon crawler or not, it can still be comparable.

Alright... FFVII's greatest offense was that you were never powering up you characters, just a couple of fucking gems. It was lame and unsatisfying to me. In DDS and FFVI, you could potentially teach every character every spell and ability in the game (though in the case of FFVI, not the player-specific skills, of which there were what, hundreds, if you include Gau)? But you TAUGHT the characters, invested in them. It was a good compromise between fully investing in a favorite core set of characters, and still be able to experiment with some of the oddballs.

IMHO, of course.

 

[Tarazet]

Alright... FFVII's greatest offense was that you were never powering up you characters, just a couple of fucking gems. It was lame and unsatisfying to me. In DDS and FFVI, you could potentially teach every character every spell and ability in the game (though in the case of FFVI, not the player-specific skills, of which there were what, hundreds, if you include Gau)? But you TAUGHT the characters, invested in them. It was a good compromise between fully investing in a favorite core set of characters, and still be able to experiment with some of the oddballs.

IMHO, of course.

Limit Breaks?

 

[Mejilan]

Limit Breaks?

Sucked. Too limited. An unsatisfactory replacement to unique character skills from FFVI.

 

[Tarazet]

Sucked. Too limited. An unsatisfactory replacement to unique character skills from FFVI.

Must be in the blood. FFVII had all the customization I have ever wanted or needed.

 

[Gattsu25]

Dungeon crawler or not, it can still be comparable.

compare Outrun 2 and PGR3

 

[Mejilan]

I, on the other hand, did compare the features. I realize I'm in the minority regarding FFVII, but it's not like I WANTED to hate it. :/

Ditto for VIII, XII, etc.

I think I might have wanted to hate X-2, to be honest. Wasn't very surprised when the game obliged me! ;p

 

[djtiesto]

I didn't like it because yes, I am a traditionalist. That's why overall I prefer DQ like a million times over FF - they keep changing shit around and sometimes it's hit, other times its miss (like X2, the less spoken about that one, the better). I'd take refinement of a solid concept than failed innovation any day of the week. The battle system just didn't work for me... positioning just felt very strange and archaic to me, kind of like I was trying to play it as an action RPG but it didn't work quite like that... plus I don't like how monsters just keep coming endlessly and they're a bitch to run away from - and there's an awful lot of fights even without random encounters. FFX or even the old ATB systems both work fine for me, and don't really need to be changed... I still don't get the random encounter hate, but even if you saw an icon representing the monster on the map, that when it touches you you get into a fight, that still wouldn't be bad at all. I *DO* like how there are actually dungeons in this game and not just slightly forking paths. And storywise- I definitely prefer the more sci-fi storylines over dry political drama but I'll have to wait till the finished game to see what happens with it.

My list:
FF1 - my favorite game when I was 7. I still love it, mainly for nostalgia
FF2 - hated, too frustrating and unbalanced. Nice story for the time though.
FF3 - awesome, there's just so much stuff to do and it's challenging without being ridiculously unbalanced, lots of jobs to use and master
FF4 - awesome, great story and characters... loved the music too. Favorite game ever back in middle-high school
FF5 - probably my favorite FF - the job system is extremely refined and allows for nice customization without being too game-breaking (though Samurai/Coin-Toss comes close).
FF6 - ehhh, overrated. Story starts out nice but I don't really care much for the plotless, more character-driven second half of the game. Esper system was pretty annoying, I remember not particularly caring for it... plus this game was the start of all those items and techs and spells that made FF games so easy - once you have 1 or 2 characters master Ultima, it's all downhill from there.
FF7 - I liked it quite a bit, it's got my favorite FF story, even if it has its slow points (like the chase Sephiroth from town to town parts), graphics were revolutionary for the time, and I liked the music.
FF8 - Couldn't stand it, junction system was awkward and confusing, how do I know which spells provide for the best increase? Drawing takes too long too. Earning cash on a salary, raise your pay grade by taking tests... what the hell? And god, the story... the orphanage scene is like the worst plot twist in RPG history.
FF9 - Ehhh, I didn't like it or hate it, I'm more apathetic. Story took too long to develop, although I did enjoy the 'return to the old skool' style. Like the ability learning system. Hated the lame 4 screen long dungeons.
FF10 - I liked it, the story was decent, graphics very nice, battle system was pretty fun and a good change of pace from the ATB without being retarded. The sphere grid was an interesting concept and it was balanced, up till the end of the game where all the balance goes out the door. Though it was too linear, I would have liked much more in the way of exploration.
FFX2 - One of the worst RPGs I've ever played.
FF11 - I hate MMORPGS, and this looks boring.

 

[I <3 Katamari]

I'd just like to interrupt this thread to say FFIX is better than all of you.

 

[Pellham]

Because DQ8 isn't trying to have a battle system that takes after the worst RPG's on the planet, MMORPG's.

I hate FF11. However, FF12's combat felt more like Vagrant Story's than FF11's, so it's a lot more tolerable.

Besides, pseudo-realtime/realtime combat is the way to go for RPGs. turn-based stuff just doesn't cut it anymore. Even if FF12 doesn't do it right, eventually some JRPG will do it right.

 

[I <3 Katamari]

It certainly is not the "way to go". It's the way some RPGs should be done. And some should still be turn based. They're two different playing games, so one shouldn't replace the other.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I hate FF11. However, FF12's combat felt more like Vagrant Story's than FF11's, so it's a lot more tolerable.

Besides, pseudo-realtime/realtime combat is the way to go for RPGs. turn-based stuff just doesn't cut it anymore. Even if FF12 doesn't do it right, eventually some JRPG will do it right.

I think Grandia should be the future. It gives the feeling of realtime, while not feeling like some MMORPG. FFX-2's battle system was a step in the right direction, this isn't.