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Why do Sega games usually end up flopping?
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poet at play
Banned
I feel as though SEGA, at their very best, have always been too good for this world.
I'm not writing that in jest either -
The soulfulness, the 200+ hour immersion, the sheer personality of their current Yakuza games..
Sure, they've earned middling commercial success over the years,
but these games deserve so much more, (as did many others - from Panzer Dragoon Saga to Shenmue.)
In a more tasteful galaxy, perhaps..
I'm not writing that in jest either -
The soulfulness, the 200+ hour immersion, the sheer personality of their current Yakuza games..
Sure, they've earned middling commercial success over the years,
but these games deserve so much more, (as did many others - from Panzer Dragoon Saga to Shenmue.)
In a more tasteful galaxy, perhaps..
NDP_Mulcair
Banned
Yeah, it's real. There was a compilation disc containing Sega GT 2002 + Jet Set Radio Future sold as part of an Xbox bundle, but as fernoca said, those discs were all returned to GameStop and were practically worthless.
And other fantastic Sega titles from the era also bombed in the USA.
Panzer Dragoon Orta only sold 130K copies in its lifetime.
Skies of Arcadia Legends only sold 150K copies.
The whole GameCube / Xbox / PS2 era is just one tragedy after another when it comes to Sega software sales.
TC McQueen
Member
Bad marketing and putting out titles on the wrong platforms for the target demos.
Deadpool_X
Banned
Sega Exec #1: So, people love them some Sonic the Hedgehog, don't they?
Sega Exec #2: They sure do!
Sega Exec #1: What if we give them a new Sonic game...
Sega Exec #2: I like where you're going with this...
Sega Exec #1: But this time, he has TONS of attitude and carries a gun. We'll call it "Shadow the Hedgehog"!
Sega Exec #2: Why don't we just make him a werewolf hedgehog - we could call it a "werehog"!!!
Sega Exec #1: I LOVE it! Then, we'll release the best Sonic game in years and put it on a console that most core gamers don't care about like the Wii!
Sega Exec #2: Better yet, we reimagine Sonic and his friends as wise-cracking gunslingers and release it on the Wii U!!!
Sega Exec #1 and #2 simulaneously: It's brilliant!!! Ship it!!!
This is why everything Sega does now-a-days flops.
Sega Exec #2: They sure do!
Sega Exec #1: What if we give them a new Sonic game...
Sega Exec #2: I like where you're going with this...
Sega Exec #1: But this time, he has TONS of attitude and carries a gun. We'll call it "Shadow the Hedgehog"!
Sega Exec #2: Why don't we just make him a werewolf hedgehog - we could call it a "werehog"!!!
Sega Exec #1: I LOVE it! Then, we'll release the best Sonic game in years and put it on a console that most core gamers don't care about like the Wii!
Sega Exec #2: Better yet, we reimagine Sonic and his friends as wise-cracking gunslingers and release it on the Wii U!!!
Sega Exec #1 and #2 simulaneously: It's brilliant!!! Ship it!!!
This is why everything Sega does now-a-days flops.
entremet
Member
Many of those were Dreamcast projects that were ported.
This is why SEGA as a console maker will always be superior since they made those games to benefit the platform as a whole, not necessarily to sell gazillions.
It allowed them to take risks that they couldn't take as a 3rd party.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Marketing is one, but association is another. I think most people associate SEGA with Sonic, and there's some very... diverse feelings on that. I remember in the last five years I've been in NeoGAF, during 2011-2014 especially, there were a lot of people who would come into SEGA threads to shit on them and say they made crappy games, and this was after things like Valkyria Chronicles, Vanquish, Bayonetta, Yakuza series, Binary Domain, their good PC remasters, Sonic Colors/Generations, and others had come out.
I think some people just really dislike them for some reason despite SEGA trying their damnedest last generation to do what no other big company was trying to do; make innovative fun quirky games for gamers. I think they were one of the strongest studios last generation, but last generation was a lot of people talking the shit out of SEGA being a terrible studio, and I don't think just here. Mixture of bad marketing to the general public, and the 'core gamers' their games were more designed for than a general populace and those who follow releases have a negative opinion on SEGA during the time.
So if the marketing is bad to let outside consumers know about these games, and if the more rabid game followers that would post on forums about games have some overflowing loud negative opinion on them, then they'll probably sell badly, since most won't know about the games, and many who know might not give it a chance due to brand recognition in a negative light.
I think some people just really dislike them for some reason despite SEGA trying their damnedest last generation to do what no other big company was trying to do; make innovative fun quirky games for gamers. I think they were one of the strongest studios last generation, but last generation was a lot of people talking the shit out of SEGA being a terrible studio, and I don't think just here. Mixture of bad marketing to the general public, and the 'core gamers' their games were more designed for than a general populace and those who follow releases have a negative opinion on SEGA during the time.
So if the marketing is bad to let outside consumers know about these games, and if the more rabid game followers that would post on forums about games have some overflowing loud negative opinion on them, then they'll probably sell badly, since most won't know about the games, and many who know might not give it a chance due to brand recognition in a negative light.
Silent Chief
Member
I always thought it sold more.
Mind you, I've only played Jet Set Radio and the learning curve is too steep for me.
Binary Domain is a PS+ game but I've bought Valkyria Chronicles, Vanquish, Bayonetta and all the Yakuza games. Is it weird that's it's all sitting there in the backlog? Well, except for Valkyria Chronicles which I can't wait to buy again.
I honestly can't even remember the last time pushed something in the west on consolethat wasn't sonic related. Almost everything that they sell is through word of mouth. Which does not help since it doesn't do a good job of reaching folks that weren't already looking for or anticipating that software
Solid Samus
Banned
these. Their most successful franchises today, mostly the kid-centric ones, aren't nearly as susceptible to being hampered by those elements as their failures have been..
FriedConsole
Banned
They westernized the first Yukuza game with Michael Madsen and the audience that actually played it hated it and people expecting a GTA clone were disappointed. If they westernized their games most of these people in this thread wouldn't of liked those games.
They released a lot of crap and so people got fed up with it. So now they have no consumer confidence. Or, people don't know they exist because in a large majority of cases, the games never leave Japan.
Or, the game is shit.
They drove Sonic into the ground, and no one plays that anymore. They made the great Valkyria Chronicles, then ruined it by putting the follow up on a dead system, and then didn't even bother releasing the third one in English.
So, yeah. Sega isn't smart. Maybe will some of Atlus' influence they'll get better.
Or, the game is shit.
They drove Sonic into the ground, and no one plays that anymore. They made the great Valkyria Chronicles, then ruined it by putting the follow up on a dead system, and then didn't even bother releasing the third one in English.
So, yeah. Sega isn't smart. Maybe will some of Atlus' influence they'll get better.
fvng
Member
What an incredibly enlightening thought provoking post
Hayama Akito
Member
Another factor is the Sonic fandom. Sega is like an internet meme now thanks to all the bad quality of Sonic games, and if Sonic fails every Sega games suffer. Everytime i talk about Sega as a general someone says "GOTTA GO FAST LOL SONIC 06".
I'm pretty sure if a Mario game gets critically panned it will affect the rest of Nintendo games.
I'm pretty sure if a Mario game gets critically panned it will affect the rest of Nintendo games.
Sword Of Doom
Member
James Scott
Banned
Poor marketing and/or poor quality game
Future was a lot easier than the original.
This coupled with the fact that every Sonic title has been utter shite for a very long time now does not help matters. If you market your crap games and hide your good games,inevitably you will get a reputation for making crap games hence folks may see Sega and not buy classic games like Bayonetta.
Although I may be giving general consumers too much credit, could be that Sega is putting a lot of effort in to making great games but for niche markets.
super-famicom
Member
Sega does what Nintendont
flop
Drilbit777
Member
Usually its because of bad marketing, Valkyria Chronicles was an amazing game but they did nothing to advertise for it,.
ScientificPizza
Banned
it's a mixture of sega's kinda shitty marketing, a lot of people associating sega with bad sonic games, and them sort of diving into a lot of niche genres and styles hoping it will just be widely accepted based on merit
it's a shame. sega is great
it's a shame. sega is great
Yeah, JSRF was basically a mis-read of where the market would have been for that type of game, and Xbox certainly wasn't it. The same can be said for Panzer Dragoon Orta.
Mis-reading the market seems to be Sega's #1 legacy now.
It depends a bit on the game. But i agree it was often more than just marketing failures.
Vanquish was never going to sell much with the package it provided, that's not enough for a 60$ game.
Bayonetta is a very eccentric game in a genre that is already nische.
I think for an SRPG Valkyria chronicles did pretty well, but that series was doomed due to the platform preferences differences in Japan and the West. Sega chose to bank on Japan and we got what we got. Considering that most strategy games seem to do horribly on console i can't even blame them that much.
Yakuza or Binary domain could have sold more with more marketing but i'm not that certain. Despite numerous entries the sales of Yakuza always seem bad. Even if - in theory - it has a template that should work.
Alpha Protocol, with more time and more marketing, could have been more sucessful i think.
They do good work with their PC stuff though.
There's an incredibly stupid business strategy documented somewhere for Yakuza. It went something along the line of "If we release the game at the same time as Final Fantasy and other big games, then people are likely to see it and pick it up along with their other purchases".
One of the most naive statements I've ever read. So you get Yakuza 3 releasing in March 2010, one of the most packed months of the year.
There's also the stink of Sonic, particularly Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom, that has caused the general audience to think of them as a laughingstock, not helped by the middling performance of the series. Doubly so when fat internet clickbaiters who make money off controversy constantly spend time writing articles about how Sega is a lazy corporation that's doomed and should kill itself and its series off.
One of the most naive statements I've ever read. So you get Yakuza 3 releasing in March 2010, one of the most packed months of the year.
There's also the stink of Sonic, particularly Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom, that has caused the general audience to think of them as a laughingstock, not helped by the middling performance of the series. Doubly so when fat internet clickbaiters who make money off controversy constantly spend time writing articles about how Sega is a lazy corporation that's doomed and should kill itself and its series off.
FriedConsole
Banned
Yeah I remember the big marketing for Yukuza when Sega try to capitalize it as GTA type game. I know I fell for it. Only problem is that it not a GTA game. Lots of serious melodrama, no cars, a poor brawling system, lots of wandering around talking to people is not GTA. I could see if I had a facination with Japanese culture it being a more interesting game but I don't have that and nor does most of the Western gaming buying audience.
Rinãã¨ã
Banned
Does not help that you have awesome games when you do keep doing awful business decisions over and over again
IrishNinja
Member
because we're in the wrong timeline; UKresistance tried telling you people for years
oh? nintendo's been flopping pretty hard for a minute now bruh
<3 nintendo, but Sega > them, tell a friend
oh? nintendo's been flopping pretty hard for a minute now bruh
<3 nintendo, but Sega > them, tell a friend
Linkstrikesback
Member
Uh, but that one made sense. The sonic games have been consistently better sellers on Nintendo hardware.
EdwardTeach
Member
You can't really credit Sega for that. It is all down to the studios (sports interactive and creative assembly). There is minimal input/ oversight from Sega.
We can say that they made some cracking acquisitions though.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
No marketing / advertisement
Games usually exclusive to one console
Those games wouldn't have sold on the Playstation either
Games usually exclusive to one console
Those games wouldn't have sold on the Playstation either
Yea, I think this is pretty much true. There's always talk about Sega's games not selling due to lack of marketing... but I think the lack of marketing is equally a case of the games having such a limited potential audience anyway.
I can also buy the idea that shit Sonic games negatively impact the sales of good Sonic games.. that makes plenty of sense (see also, Alien Isolation)... but I think this really only happens on a series level rather than a publisher level. The games themselves are the issue really, in that regardless of quality they don't match the market trends. These games would likely sell similarly regardless of who released them, and the reason Sega fails to sell is simply because they're releasing them where other publishers would have likely canned the games early on.
Let's take Nintendo for example. Nintendo has a very good reputation still... yet when they've released games that I'd consider "Sega-like" they've been met with similarish fates (Platinum games, F-Zero, etc). This tends to happen regardless of the increased promotion the games receive in comparison to the same (or similar) game being promoted by Sega.
They certainly would have sold better though. It's hard to know whether or not the various deals Sega made during that time were a good idea, as we'll never know what they received in exchange... but all else being equal, everything the released that generation would have benefitted significantly from a PS2 release. One of Sega's other consistent issues was their potential reach, you could see this happening a lot during the 32bit era where games that essentially defined subgenres in the arcade lost out heavily in the console to rival series that were on more wide-reaching consoles (i.e. PlayStation). Daytona USA to Ridge Racer, Virtua Fighter to Tekken, Virtua Cop to Time Crisis, etc. Has these games hit the Playstation instead of the Saturn (or if the roles for each console were reversed) I think it's safe to say that their respective performances would likely have been similar to how they were in the arcades. Virtua Fighter for example saw a huge boost with Virtua Fighter 4 as a result of debuting on PS2. Had that instead been an Xbox exclusive?... well, I think we can all imagine how that would've went.
I never thought of that before but my god your right. The few Nintendo releases I care about are the ones that don't sell either. Depressing as it is I'll just have to be content knowing I like a niche selection of games and continue to play my retro stuff over and over.
I do agree with the idea that Sega's choice of formats for their releases over the years have not helped them and they could have at least garnered more sales then they did. JSRF and Panzer Orta were always niche but I can't think of a worse audience for them then the Xbox fans buying a console for Halo. For Panzer Dragoon for example you could at least say to a Nintendo fan "well its kinda like Starfox on a dragon".
Sega's games are stylized / arcady / japanese / weird, very much like Nintendo's but they didn't survive unlike Nintendo because Sega targeted mature audiences with their presentation style.
The combination of wackyness and games for adults is a contradiction. I find it sad that NBA Jam, a really fun video game that only resembles basketball on a surface level died out in favor of "real" basketball games. Sega is NBA Jam
edt: The F-Zero etc. comparisons make total sense. I call these "edgy" Ninendo titles, and that's what Sega was basically.
The combination of wackyness and games for adults is a contradiction. I find it sad that NBA Jam, a really fun video game that only resembles basketball on a surface level died out in favor of "real" basketball games. Sega is NBA Jam
edt: The F-Zero etc. comparisons make total sense. I call these "edgy" Ninendo titles, and that's what Sega was basically.
Aztechnology
Member
Total War games do alright. I expect Warhammer Total War will do quite well.
Megawarrior
Member
Releasing niche games right next to multiple other big games at the time (Binary Domain) and minimal to absolutely no marketing/promo whatsoever ( All Yakuza games outside Japan).
megashock5
Member
I miss Sega so much as a console maker and driving force in the industry.
I wish they would do more to preserve their rich arcade history, though. Maybe it's just not financially viable.
Does anyone know how the Daytona USA port on PS3/360 did? I bought it day one and was hoping it would be followed by Sega Rally, SuperGT, ManxTT, Indy 500, etc.
Such a shame.
I wish they would do more to preserve their rich arcade history, though. Maybe it's just not financially viable.
Does anyone know how the Daytona USA port on PS3/360 did? I bought it day one and was hoping it would be followed by Sega Rally, SuperGT, ManxTT, Indy 500, etc.
Such a shame.
I love that combination you get with classic Sega, its a shame its not popular. Mind you it does still work for some series, see Metal Gear.
Much of the best of Sega went for a stylised reality in my eyes. Like the Outrun series is lets make realistic recreations of Ferraris but lets drive them through a more idealistic blue sky world then you could ever have. Sega was long the company for me because I don't favour either gritty realism or the totally cartoony, I like the in between.
Yeah the age of arcadey games being big with core console gamers were all but over by the time Xbox hits. And it feels with that style gone Sega is left treading water.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
I highly doubt that but all we can do is speculate.
DOA did very well on the Xbox, but then again, Tecmo marketed the game very well.