PaulBizkit
Member
In 2008, the week Valkyria Chronicles came out (a sony exclusive) all the marketing was destined to LittleBig Planet and a Motorstorm game. Long story short, nobody knew Valkyria was coming (except jrpg fans obviously).
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Why do Sega games usually end up flopping?
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In 2008, the week Valkyria Chronicles came out (a sony exclusive) all the marketing was destined to LittleBig Planet and a Motorstorm game. Long story short, nobody knew Valkyria was coming (except jrpg fans obviously).
petran79
Banned
That is still better than the fate the Sakura Taisen games had in Europe/America.
Until #5 on PS2 no one knew this franchise even existed and not even that helped make the franchise more known...
Yea, I guess I shouldn't have made such a definitive statement (although I honestly think it's close to qualifying for one).
Dead or Alive I feel did well despite the Xbox, or rather because at the time it was the essentially the platform's only real option prior to Soul Calibur 2.
As soon as Itagaki left and the series was made multiplatform again the PlayStation versions immediately had the larger audience, despite the series' time spent as an Xbox exclusive. Now, Xtreme 3 isn't even being made for the Xbox One, and I basically feel like I'm on an island on my own with the Xbox One version of DOA5LR... and the Xbox One is still doing far better against the PS4, than the OG Xbox fared against the PS2.
Well, I went nearly 8 years on here with no avatar prior to picking this one... so I'll probably be rocking it for a while.
Deft Beck
Gold Member
Why did they localize the fifth game? Just because it was the newest one at the time?
I agree with the lack of proper marketing, outside Sonic games. It doesn't mean they have to spend a lot of money on TV ads and that kind of coverage. But I've seen many medium size or niche publishers doing wonders with little money via social media and Internet in general.
For stuff like Yakuza they should build a community, do polls, twitter campaigns, raffles and stuff like that. Your audience might be small, but a good portion of it is vocal and dedicated, so encourage them to market the game for you.
And create some kind of "brand loyalty". I'm sure publishers like NISA, Atlas USA or Bamco have a small fanbase that basically buys everything they release because of how much goodwill they've gathered.
They should start thinking like a niche publisher that has the Sonic brand instead of like a big publisher that has some niche games.
And they should bring Phantasy Star Online 2.
For stuff like Yakuza they should build a community, do polls, twitter campaigns, raffles and stuff like that. Your audience might be small, but a good portion of it is vocal and dedicated, so encourage them to market the game for you.
And create some kind of "brand loyalty". I'm sure publishers like NISA, Atlas USA or Bamco have a small fanbase that basically buys everything they release because of how much goodwill they've gathered.
They should start thinking like a niche publisher that has the Sonic brand instead of like a big publisher that has some niche games.
And they should bring Phantasy Star Online 2.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Their management has seemed terrible since the beginning of the last generation when they ran out of all the in-progress DC and arcade development that got pieced out to the different remaining platform-holders as new third party releases. Sega was in their absolute best position when they had a large captive audience as they did when they created and showcased software for their own platforms. Since the end of their hardware days, their choices as software maker have obviously suffered with relatively low ambitions, but even their golden geese IPs seem to have been neglected over the last decade or, at least, the creative teams that were responsible for them were no longer cared for and focused upon. It seems like a miracle that their poor decisions didn't kill Creative Assembly. That acquisition was one of their few solid moves in the post-DC era.
Fox Mulder
Member
Theyre a publisher with niche games and fucking sonic. Better marketing isnt a magic pill.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
This, pretty much. Platinum Games' titles in particular (Infinite Space, Vanquish, and especially Anarchy Reigns) were practically thrown under the bus in promotion, it's no surprise that they left for Nintendo and Activision shortly after that last title in particular flopped.
In fairness, PDO and JSRF in particular (Gunvalkyrie too--and all three were developed by Smilebit, go figure...) were released as exclusives to the Xbox, whose (primarily Western) demographic was primarily skewed towards sports games, FPS, and sandbox (i.e. GTA) titles.
I'd argue those games would had performed better on Sony or Nintendo consoles: indeed, if one looks at the list of Sega games that have sold over a million copies on The Magic Box's US Platinum Chart, there's four PS2 games, two GameCube games, and one Xbox game listed. The Xbox title in question is a sports game, ESPN NFL 2K5--and even then, the PS2 version of that same title sold more copies.
LukasTaves
Member
They would be, had they managed to turn that into a revenue, not an expense. They never did as far as I can tell.
entremet
Member
That makes sense in hindsight, but the Xbox was new brand, without much of an identity yet.
It didn't become the dudebro--I hate that term, but you know what I mean--platform until later in its lifetime with XBL and Halo 2.
Remember, they had stuff like Grabbed by the Ghoulies (a Gamecube project originally) and Blinx lol.
LukasTaves
Member
lol. I LOVE sega, really thought they were second to none up until Dreamcast in putting out quality and variety.
But good god, they always have seemed to make the worst possible choice regarding how to drive their games and consoles business.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yeah, I think this is the main reason. They only seem to really try when it comes to marketing Sonic, and everything else almost gets a stealth release. I mean, given the trends last gen there's no reason why Binary Domain, Vanquish and Bayonetta couldn't have sold better, besides it being that they were not marketing strongly enough.
This is also true for Sega own sucky games which were quiet successful.
Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) shipped about 2.7 million units.
Shadow the Hedgehog is also a million seller.
Sonic Heroes is the third best selling Sonic game ever (mainline games).
Sonic, Super Monkey Ball and Virtua Fighter 4 performed well.
There's plenty of reasons, actually. Vanquish is a super short game designed to be replayed multiple times, and most gamers go through a game only once. If it had double the content, or a great multiplayer mode maybe it would've had more success. As it is, no amount of marketing would've sold it (not to mention, the more money you spend on marketing, the more copies you need to sell to break even). And Bayonetta... lol. It's one of my favorite games ever, but visually it's a carnival of crazyness that only appeals to a niche audience.
I agree.
lol core gamers.
DS and Wii were Sonic main platforms sales-wise, last generation.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Sakura Wars 5 was explicitly created with an eye at the overseas market, hence it switching the series setting to America instead of the Japan of the prior entries.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
lol Sonic 2006 never sold anywhere near that amount. The best it did (according to Sega's 2007 FY report) was 870K. The general notion that Sonic 2006 even sold over a million copies is an absolute myth (especially since the game was delisted not too long afterwards).
Is that report showing sold through numbers? Because for a game like Sonic '06, I could totally see 2.7m getting shipped out (it is Sonic pre-2k6 after all), and then not selling barely any of that to consumers once word got out about how shit it was.
Megawarrior
Member
Yeah I didn't even know about the game existing until I saw it in a tiny tiny preview from Game Informer. That was the only promo I saw of the game. Soon after, I saw it on display with all the goodies it came with at GameStop and took a chance on it.
Sega has an extremely long history of being extremely incompetent at the business side of making games. From the unnecessary Genesis addons and the whole "Saturn is out RIGHT NOW" debacle, to modern Sega's general inability to advertise anything, all the great, unique games they release go unnoticed because Sega just doesn't know how to sell things.
Their other main problem is that they are mostly associated with the Sonic series, which has been a series with a lot of mediocre-to-bad games for the past 15 years. Nobody is going to search for the good games that Sega releases without advertising because the company is associated with beating an old mascot into the ground.
I'm guessing their marketing discussions go something like:
"this game isn't Sonic, it won't sell well, let's not advertise it"
[game sells badly because they didn't advertise it]
"see? told you it won't sell. glad we didn't advertise it."
"but do you think that maybe it didn't sell well BECAUSE you didn't advertise it?"
"that makes no sense. now go get the latest 10-month-dev-cycle shitpile from Sonic Team and plaster it all over every press release and ad we make."
Their other main problem is that they are mostly associated with the Sonic series, which has been a series with a lot of mediocre-to-bad games for the past 15 years. Nobody is going to search for the good games that Sega releases without advertising because the company is associated with beating an old mascot into the ground.
I'm guessing their marketing discussions go something like:
"this game isn't Sonic, it won't sell well, let's not advertise it"
[game sells badly because they didn't advertise it]
"see? told you it won't sell. glad we didn't advertise it."
"but do you think that maybe it didn't sell well BECAUSE you didn't advertise it?"
"that makes no sense. now go get the latest 10-month-dev-cycle shitpile from Sonic Team and plaster it all over every press release and ad we make."
Mine is shipment data by Sega, worldwide of course and combining PS3 and Xbox 360 version.
The Artisan
Member
isn't yakuza a best seller in japan?
BlackClouds
Member
Sega's brand is trash in the west, that's the short and end of it. Plus the company never adapted to trends and are just kind of lost. They aren't alone in Japan but that's what it is.
Core gamers give no shits about platformers in general or Sonic in particular. Sonic sold better on the Wii then the PS3 or Xbox.
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
Company of Heroes 2 has been great for Sega. I imagine Dawn of War 3 will be huge too. Sega has turned into one of my favorite PC game developers, not something my 10 year old self thought I would ever say lol.
BlackClouds
Member
Seems it's digital titles and the back catalog is the main bread these days.
But thats to do with good acquisitions of existing franchises and developers that were already doing well without their help. Sega didn't start any of those series so I don't feel it really counts. Not since Sonic has the company really shown any idea how to get an IP off the ground in the first place.
Deadpool_X
Banned
I'm not bashing the Wii, mind you, but making a Sonic game exclusive is a terrible idea. There are Sega fans on every console, but odds are, they won't buy a console specifically for a Sonic game, especially when the quality of Sonic games has been so hit or miss for the last 15 years. Sonic is the one title they have that SHOULD be on every console known to man. It's these types of decisions that have hurt Sega.
I don't think Sega regrets doing Sonic Rush and Sonic and the Secret Rings exclusives since they are the best selling Sonic games last generation.
The focus on exclusive games for DS and Wii was dictated, not just by the difference in hardware, but because it was a worthy investment for Sega to target successful Nintendo systems with their Sonic franchise.
GhostTrick
Banned
Lack of marketing, lack of patforms choice.
Also, bad direction for their Sonic games.
Also, bad direction for their Sonic games.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Uhh are you talking about sonic colors on the 7th line? Cause sonic by far sells the most on nintendo consoles
entremet
Member
Don't forgot that SEGA still had sour grapes from losing that generation to Sony based on anticipation alone. That explains the lack of PS2 titles at first.
Eventually that changed after the merger with Sammy.
Hero of Legend
Member
Not to mention All-Stars Racing Transformed apparently sold more on Wii U than PS3 and 360... combined.
When a Nintendo system at launch that naturally has a userbase that's basely non-existent, has a Sonic game sell more on it than on two consoles nearly a decade old with userbases in the 10's of millions each...
Case and point. Nintendo fans <3 Sonic.
Other systems? I don't know...Doesn't help counter-arguments that Sonic Lost World is still to this day (well 2 days ago as it's 2 days behind
) after 2 and a half months going by Steamspy is not even above 10,000 LTD on Steam (not sure what regions it tracks).Yes, you can say "it bombed because it was trash", but Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric did over double that in just a couple of weeks or so in NA-alone on Wii U according to NPD leaks which got trashed even in months leading to its release (basically since E3).
TC McQueen
Member
It tracks all regions, it just doesn't show you the breakdown without being a member or whatever.Doesn't help counter-arguments that Sonic Lost World is still to this day (well 2 days ago as it's 2 days behind
Hero of Legend
Member
That's way worse for Lost World then.I doubt that had much to do with it, considering some of the stuff they did put on PS2. I think it's more likely just a result of MS sweet-talking them, the potential acquisition, Windows CE on Dreamcast, and that the Xbox was almost a pseudo Dreamcast 2 (was almost BC with Dreamcast games).
Sonic Team to Gamecube simply made sense (and was one of the few correct calls that gen).
Not to mention All-Stars Racing Transformed apparently sold more on Wii U than PS3 and 360... combined.
When a Nintendo system at launch that naturally has a userbase that's basely non-existent, has a Sonic game sell more on it than on two consoles nearly a decade old with userbases in the 10's of millions each...
Case and point. Nintendo fans <3 Sonic.
Doesn't help counter-arguments that Sonic Lost World is still to this day (well 2 days ago as it's 2 days behind
Yes, you can say "it bombed because it was trash", but Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric did over double that in just a couple of weeks or so in NA-alone on Wii U according to NPD leaks which got trashed even in months leading to its release (basically since E3).
Their PC-port strategy (or lack thereof) generally seems completely bizarre to me.
They released Valkyria Chronicles a year ago, which is sitting at 600k owners as of today (and I think it did pretty good at launch too). That's a pretty good number for a years late niche title, I imagine.
What did they take away from that? "Look, this game did pretty good for us. Let's port this Sonic game no one asked for a year later!"
You could argue that maybe they want to alternate a non-Sonic game with a Sonic game for every port, but even than a year between each release is just way too long for that if they want to get their backlog on Steam.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Interesting since lost worlds is a decent game, it's not gutter trash like black knight or 06 but not as good as colors or generations
Lost World isn't terrible, it's just.. kinda... there. Worse still, it's an incredibly late port, and doesn't offer much incentive for anyone to double-dip. Much of the sales Generations gathered weren't simply from the "PC crowd".. it was from the rest of us that would usually pick up the games on Wii/360/PS3 buying that version instead (or as well) due to it being a massively superior experience, to the point that it almost felt like a different game (same applied from Sonic Racing Transformed). Lost World already ran at 60fps though... it has no real selling point.
I honestly thought Binary Domain would've sold decently in the West. It was a third person sci-fi shooter with a great cast of characters and a good story. It also had some romance aspects and online multiplayer. The game ended up only selling 20k in its first month...