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[TheHeretic]

Or how about TIME!? Makes sense when ya think about it.... Time encompasses EVERYTHING and everything takes 'time'(even if mere milliseconds). Our whole human lives are dictated by time. Time is the alpha and omega if ya think about it. Everything will be destroyed....IN TIME and everything thing will be created...but it takes TIME. Even the Earth and Sun. And when was time born? It was always there! TAKE THAT, Christian god!

except time doesn't exist, its a human construct ;P

 

[Souther]

God didn't create people. People created God.

People just want to believe that there is something magical out there in the universe, That we were created by some supernatural being and that he loves us and that when we die we can go and be with him up in heaven.

Otherwise the only thing you have to look forward to is 1 helluva long nap.

 

[Shaheed79]

If you spent half as long looking for sites that challenge your beliefs than you seem to for ones that vindicate them then I think you'd find an abundant supply of naturalistic explanations for things you consider supernatural and paranormal. To be blunt though, I think you want reality to be a certain way, and for that way to involve ghosts and spooky things, so you're going to interpret everything with an incredible bias. I don't pretend t be 100% objective by any means that doesn't exist, but I try to let reality impress upon me rather than the other way round.

Actually I have. If I hadn't I would be a die hard christian who defended the crock in the bible but instead I am a spirtualist who believes in only the simplicities behind religion and that everything in between has been twisted, skewed and fabricated to the point where it has become useless in obtaining spiritual truth. I believe in me, God, and the spiritual energy in between. Now find me some sites that challenge this as I would be happy to read them. I have asked for nothing but this during this entire time and have not been provided with a single thing and every time I brought something to be examined it was outright dismissed because everyone here is open minded and willing to take an objective look at any evidence............yeah right.

Logos, themos and eros. I subscribe to the purely scientific theory of a soul. I'm paraphrasing here but the EM field that we emit resonates at a certain frequency within the em wave length. Nikola Tesla was first to theorize and almost test in application a method in which it was possible to manipulate everything from the human brain to the ionosphere and beyond. "Anyone able to manipulate resonant frequencies between five and fifteen cycles per second, to three decimal places of accuracy, can influence every dynamic electromagnetic activity on the face of the earth and beyond, including global weather patterns, human thought and thus human behavior." He realized the gravity of such an application if it were ever to be exploited and decided not to pursue this. I believe the proof that people seek of souls rest in the continued work of Mr. Telsa and his unusually unscientific methods (at the time). Many many paranormal investigators have been able to detect electro magnetic energy not only in places where it shouldn't be any but moving in a set route or path repeated or otherwise and it is more times than not accompanied by other corresponding paranormal activity whether it is an evp, video or physical contact. Why is this? If we can read and detect a ghost, spirit, soul or what have you as it is leaving a body and have it register on a em field then we can come closer to understanding the phenomenon that happens around the circumstance we define as death.

Then the question remains if we do just become thermal coffee energy and dirt when we die then who or what are the entities that occupy this space who can punch through and register on certain high sensitivity and low-frequency equipment like evp recorders and infra-red cameras and where do they come from?

 

[TheHeretic]

Logos, themos and eros. I subscribe to the purely scientific theory of a soul. I'm paraphrasing here but the EM field that we emit resonates at a certain frequency within the em wave length. Nikola Tesla was first to theorize and almost test in application a method in which it was possible to manipulate everything from the human brain to the ionosphere and beyond. "Anyone able to manipulate resonant frequencies between five and fifteen cycles per second, to three decimal places of accuracy, can influence every dynamic electromagnetic activity on the face of the earth and beyond, including global weather patterns, human thought and thus human behavior."

The human brain responds to magnets, thats about as close to reality you've gotten there. There is no purely scientific theory of a soul because science isn't looking for a soul. The concept of the soul is compeltely religious, and taking a religious concept and attempting to prove it through absolutely horrible science is a joke. EM fields are everywhere, absolutely everywhere. Every electric source produces an EM field, including you. Running around with an EM meter pointing at walls is about as scientific as dowsing rods or fung shui.

You might have dropped christianity but you've picked up just as much nonsense with whatever new belief you are holding there.

 

[Undubbed]

except time doesn't exist, its a human construct ;P

Head_Explode(TIME);

 

[The Librarian]

except time doesn't exist, its a human construct ;P

Please tell me you're joking.

 

[TheHeretic]

Please tell me you're joking.

No, i'm not. The point of reference for a clock is another clock, it only measures itself.

 

[Shaheed79]

The human brain responds to magnets, thats about as close to reality you've gotten there. There is no purely scientific theory of a soul because science isn't looking for a soul. The concept of the soul is compeltely religious, and taking a religious concept and attempting to prove it through absolutely horrible science is a joke. EM fields are everywhere, absolutely everywhere. Every electric source produces an EM field, including you. Running around with an EM meter pointing at walls is about as scientific as dowsing rods or fung shui.

You might have dropped christianity but you've picked up just as much nonsense with whatever new belief you are holding there.

Lol wow. Fiesty.

Magnetic fields are created when electric current flows: the greater the current, the stronger the magnetic field. An electric field will exist even when there is no current flowing. If current does flow, the strength of the magnetic field will vary with power consumption but the electric field strength will be constant.

So depending on how strong the current is the em meter will register different readings. A powerline will have a strong current and therefore register significantly but a pool table has hardly any current at all to register. Everything has a em signature when it is broken down to its prime components and can be accurately measured and identified with the proper equipment. So if you are taking a reading of a door and it registers at .01 for ten minutes then suddenly jumps to 40 then that is called an anomaly. So what you do is you move the em m away from the door until it drops back down to normal and then bring it back to see if the anomaly is still there. So a wooden door shouldn't have the same reading as a power conduit or even approaching. If it is and there are no other sources of high em currents then an anomaly could be occurring.

The EM meter on its own doesn't prove jack squat in its current form but when that jump or spike in a em field is accompanied by other recordable data like evp, thermal or infra-red video and this happens repeatedly then one has to begin to associate these spikes with the subsequent activity. Any idiot knows that everything emits an em field even the planet I already stated as much but the variances between them can be HUGE and definitely wide enough to abstract some form of consistent data. The technology needs to be sophisticated enough to associate each variance in the em field and successfully identify it with the object or area being measured.

 

[TheHeretic]

Lol wow.


So depending on hoe strong the current is the em meter will register different readings. A powerline will have a strong current and therefore register significantly but a pool table has hardly any current at all to register. Everything has a em signature when it is broken down to its prime components and can be accurately measured and identified with the proper equipment. So if you are taking a reading of a door and it registers at .01 for ten minutes then suddenly jumps to 40 then that is called an anomaly. So what you do is you move the em m away from the door until it drops back down to normal and then bring it back to see if the anomaly is still there. So a wooden door shouldn't have the same reading as a power conduit or even approaching. If it is and there are no other sources of high em currents then an anomaly could be occurring.

The EM meter on its own doesn't prove jack squat in its current form but when that jump or spike in a em field is accompanied by other recordable data like evp, thermal or infra-red video and this happens repeatedly then one has to begin to associate these spikes with the subsequent activity. Any idiot knows that everything emits an em field even the planet I already stated as much but the variances between them can be HUGE and definitely wide enough to abstract some form of consistent data. The technology needs to be sophisticated enough to associate each variance in the em field and successfully identify it with the object or area being measured.

Thats an elaborate explanation of something that absolutely does not work.

 

[Shaheed79]

Thats an elaborate explanation of something that absolutely does not work.

Tell that to Nikola Tesla according to him this was very possible. If this is your best scrutiny then I need to play the other end. I would get to sit back and dismiss everything without a single ounce of personal scientific research, study and conclusion.

 

[TheHeretic]

Tell that to Nikola Tesla according to him this was very possible. If this is your best scrutiny then I need to play the other end. I would get to sit back and dismiss everything without a single ounce of personal scientific research, study and conclusion.

EVP is based on pareidolia and apophenia, as is the rest of "ghost hunting". Both these are well documented, because they are real. Ghost hunting is not well documented, because nobody takes it seriously. Its like reverse speech theory and ufo's: nobody with real credentials is interested in garbage science.

 

[btkadams]

No, i'm not. The point of reference for a clock is another clock, it only measures itself.

woah... tell me more lol

 

[Shaheed79]

I find that most agnostics are just as closed minded and stubborn as the religious fanatics they so love to criticize. I submit this thread as exhibit A.

 

[mikeybwright]

I'm alive today because some guy found mold growing on something.

I believe.

 

[Druz]

I find that most agnostics are just as close minded and stubborn as the religious fanatics they so love to criticize. I submit this thread as exhibit A.

This isn't an issue of who is the most stubborn.

There are people making decisions for our country that think the world is 6,000 years old. Committing intellectual suicide and being proud of it is the issue.

 

[dasein]

blah blah blah

 

[Laughterjones]

God didn't create people. People created God.

People just want to believe that there is something magical out there in the universe, That we were created by some supernatural being and that he loves us and that when we die we can go and be with him up in heaven.

Otherwise the only thing you have to look forward to is 1 helluva long nap.

True, heaven is the final destination but it's not my main motivation. I would argue that if it is for someone, they need to reevaluate.

My main reason for believing in God is agape love in the biblical sense. It still amazes me.

 

[Rayo]

because the bible tells me to

 

[jacket320]

No, i'm not. The point of reference for a clock is another clock, it only measures itself.

I think we're using atoms to keep time now. I don't really think time is a human invention; it's a measure of cycles that have been and will always be here.

 

[Feep]

Time is present in an extraordinary amount of physical laws. Its perceived passage may be a human construct, but its existence as a definable quantity is not.

I'm a Deist, and it's my personal opinion that anyone who believes in holy books as anything other than a metaphorical source of inspiration or morality is a fucking lunatic...which, of course, comprises a very large percentage of our population. This is, of course, my opinion, and could very well be wrong.

People have always needed to believe in God, because they find their own existences frail and pointless. They are unable to see that the universe, even stripped of ridiculous spiritual tenets, is an incredibly beautiful place, and should the human race survive its own stupidity, we might rise to do wonderful things in it.

 

[LCGeek]

EVP is based on pareidolia and apophenia, as is the rest of "ghost hunting". Both these are well documented, because they are real. Ghost hunting is not well documented, because nobody takes it seriously. Its like reverse speech theory and ufo's: nobody with real credentials is interested in garbage science.

UFO's isn't a garbage science. If governments and mankind wasn't so stupid about their reactions to info trust me we'd have a lot more disclosure on the subject with more evidence about things that happen in airspace. I'd say more but your sensibility is telling me you want proof that only some authority figure could ever provide, which happens to be the reason for not sharing such information to begin with. As for ghosts another matter since the paranormal seems to have the flakiest and biggest cons next to some religous nuts I've ever seen.

 

[twilitesparklemotion]

Pretty much me while skimming this thread. The junior who believes in God because he (the junior) exists caused me to slow a bit, though.

"The church" honestly has been a huge pain in the ass since the dark ages but it's not god's fault. It's annoying god-fanboys.

Pretty much.

because the bible tells me to

:lol; unfortunately, this is all too often the case.

My thoughts, after skimming (and boy I mean skimming) this thread:

There is a God.

His origin is cloudy at best. "Always has been" was supposedly written by men who were writing what He told them to. A lot can happen during eternity. I don't necessarily believe this, but if He turned out to be an alien I'd probably die of excitement. That would be so cool.

I hate religion.

And I follow Christ. Can't really answer the OP's question, but three different things factor in: (1) the obvious faith, (2) it's how I was raised (though I have drifted a lot from what I learned as a kid) and (3) I've read the Gospels, and I know how Christ lived His life, and that's the path I want to follow.

So yeah. Pick me apart, kids.

 

[Druz]

Pretty much me while skimming this thread. The junior who believes in God because he (the junior) exists caused me to slow a bit, though.

Pretty much.

:lol; unfortunately, this is all too often the case.

My thoughts, after skimming (and boy I mean skimming) this thread:

There is a God.

His origin is cloudy at best. "Always has been" was supposedly written by men who were writing what He told them to. A lot can happen during eternity. I don't necessarily believe this, but if He turned out to be an alien I'd probably die of excitement. That would be so cool.

I hate religion.

And I follow Christ. Can't really answer the OP's question, but three different things factor in: (1) the obvious faith, (2) it's how I was raised (though I have drifted a lot from what I learned as a kid) and (3) I've read the Gospels, and I know how Christ lived His life, and that's the path I want to follow.

So yeah. Pick me apart, kids.

Your post should be marked as a disaster zone of words.

 

[TheHeretic]

UFO's isn't a garbage science. If governments and mankind wasn't so stupid about their reactions to info trust me we'd have a lot more disclosure on the subject with more evidence about things that happen in airspace. I'd say more but your sensibility is telling me you want proof that only some authority figure could ever provide, which happens to be the reason for not sharing such information to begin with. As for ghosts another matter since the paranormal seems to have the flakiest and biggest cons next to some religous nuts I've ever seen.

You are absolutely right, UFO's aren't garbage science. A UFO is simply an Unidentified Flying Object, most of which arise from military testing (especially of "alein" looking craft like the SR71 Blackbird) or just plain old people having one too many whiskeys on a lone highway. The Alien conspiracy however is complete garbage and no-one is going to convince me otherwise over any internet site. The freedom of information has shown us just how mundane these "top secret" bases really are.

 

[TheHeretic]

I think we're using atoms to keep time now. I don't really think time is a human invention; it's a measure of cycles that have been and will always be here.

You might be thinking of the atomic clock (which does use atoms, but is still a clock). The problem with time as an actuality is, if you have a voltmeter (elecricity meter), you can measure the flow of electricity. If you have a clock with you, you cannot measure time. Time only exists with the frame of reference of another clock, and a clock only measures itself. A clock isn't measuring anything or testing anything, it simply runs. Time is indeed a human construct (and a very neccesary one) but in terms of actually "existing" the universe is in a perpetual state of being, it has no concept of time.

 

[btkadams]

my friends and i were all sitting in the living room a couple weeks ago really late (early i guess) and one of my friends randomly asked you all believe in god right? him and two others agreed ya, but then my best friend and I said no. he had a big freak spaz and said how can you NOT believe in god?! i said look ive never yelled at you for believing, why is it such a b ig deal if i dont? and he continued to freak and then said... im not judging. YA FUCKING RIGHT.

why cant people fucking deal with it when others dont believe in god. we are all going through life for ourselves anyways, so who the fuck cares if you go to your "heaven" regardless of if someone else doesnt. will you really give a damn about other people when your in heaven? who cares, you made it. congrats. its not like anbody really cares about others more than themselves (except children or parents i guess).

and why the fuck do agnostic people care when others beleive in god? if you think its a mistake, fuck off and let them do what they wish...think of it as a hobby if you cant handle it. just everyone let each other think differently.

i dont believe in god because i have not found enough reason or evidence for myself to believe. that is all. i dont need a preecher, and i dont need people to agree. i just am this way.

 

[Jackson]

You might be thinking of the atomic clock (which does use atoms, but is still a clock). The problem with time as an actuality is, if you have a voltmeter (elecricity meter), you can measure the flow of electricity. If you have a clock with you, you cannot measure time. Time only exists with the frame of reference of another clock, and a clock only measures itself. A clock isn't measuring anything or testing anything, it simply runs. Time is indeed a human construct (and a very neccesary one) but in terms of actually "existing" the universe is in a perpetual state of being, it has no concept of time.

Good job proving Leibniz view of time theory, it is obviously the correct one....Newtonian time theory is obviously false, you proved it! right here on the interwebs! Quick go claim your nobel prize you brainiac, you!

Quit spouting single theoretical concepts as fact to disprove God's existence... at least provide both sides before you shoot someone's argument down... you're just as bad a a redneck Christian saying dinosaurs came from the devil to disprove their existence in the history of man...

 

[Shaheed79]

So what do you think those gigantic resonating disk shaped objects are that were hundreds of feet in diameter in those NASA STS-75 video clips analyzed by David Sereda? Space junk? Tiny particles in front of the camera? They can't be in front of the camera because they are behind the tether that broke apart from the space station which was recorded to be if I remember correctly around 12 miles long. And why were they only visible in the ultra-violet spectrum?

Edit: Made some corrections after re watching the video myself. It's been a while since I've watched it. The tether was 12 MILES long not 200 feet which means that those objects behind it were INSANELY massive.

 

[TheHeretic]

Good job proving Leibniz view of time theory, it is obviously the correct one....Newtonian time theory is obviously false, you proved it! right here on the interwebs! Quick go claim your nobel prize you brainiac, you!

Quit spouting single theoretical concepts as fact to disprove God's existence... at least provide both sides before you shoot someone's argument down... you're just as bad a a redneck Christian saying dinosaurs came from the devil to disprove their existence in the history of man...

Whether or not there is a dimension of time, a clock doesn't measure it. And how the hell am I trying to disprove god through discussing time? Oh noes im as bad a redneck, like I actually give a shit? Why would I care who i'm as "bad" as in your eyes? Who are you?

 

[Shaheed79]

So what do you think those gigantic resonating disk shaped objects are that were hundreds of feet in diameter in those NASA STS-75 video clips analyzed by David Sereda? Space junk? Tiny particles in front of the camera? They can't be in front of the camera because they are behind the tether that broke apart from the space station which was recorded to be if I remember correctly around 12 miles long. And why were they only visible in the ultra-violet spectrum?

Edit: Made some corrections after re watching the video myself. It's been a while since I've watched it. The tether was 12 MILES long not 200 feet which means that those objects behind it were INSANELY massive.

Again here is the video in question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW78l1tOj14

Watch all nine parts.

Anyone can attempt an explanation but I am primarily addressing TheHeretic on this subject.

 

[AdventureRacing]

my friends and i were all sitting in the living room a couple weeks ago really late (early i guess) and one of my friends randomly asked you all believe in god right? him and two others agreed ya, but then my best friend and I said no. he had a big freak spaz and said how can you NOT believe in god?! i said look ive never yelled at you for believing, why is it such a b ig deal if i dont? and he continued to freak and then said... im not judging. YA FUCKING RIGHT.

I had a similar weird experience. Just recently my GF's mum asked me (in front of my GF and her family) if i was an atheist. I told her i don't believe in god. She was pretty shocked and then asked me why. I just told her i had no reason to believe either way. She gave me a funny look, luckily i was able to change the conversation.

 

[Shaheed79]

We are talking disc shaped objects recorded by Nasa's very own telescopes viewing into the ultra-violet spectrum that are 2 or 3 miles in diameter based on the calculations from the size of the tether they appear behind. Let me say that again so you understand how important that is. Objects TWO TO THREE MILES IN DIAMETER. If it were a meteor that size within shotgun distance of our thermosphere we would be in defcon 5. NASA claimed that these are space debris and ice particles in front of the camera where it can be clearly seen that these objects are appearing behind the 12 mile long tether. Why are they blantantly lying about it?

 

[TheHeretic]

So what do you think those gigantic resonating disk shaped objects are that were hundreds of feet in diameter in those NASA STS-75 video clips analyzed by David Sereda? Space junk? Tiny particles in front of the camera? They can't be in front of the camera because they are behind the tether that broke apart from the space station which was recorded to be if I remember correctly around 12 miles long. And why were they only visible in the ultra-violet spectrum?

Edit: Made some corrections after re watching the video myself. It's been a while since I've watched it. The tether was 12 MILES long not 200 feet which means that those objects behind it were INSANELY massive.

Again here is the video in question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW78l1tOj14

Watch all nine parts.

Anyone can attempt an explanation but I am primarily addressing TheHeretic on this subject.

You've been addressing me for endless pages and i've made it perfectly clear i'm not interested in your conspiracy junk.

 

[Shaheed79]

You've been addressing me for endless pages and i've made it perfectly clear i'm not interested in your conspiracy junk.

This really is amateur hour. Let me show you what you are doing.

Readings in Argumentations By William L. Benoit, Dale Hample, Pamela J. Benoit

Fallacies and Generic Weaknesses page 349
"There is a tendency of many critics to attach the label "fallacy" to an argument when the accuracy of that label depends upon a factual assumption that is, at best, debatable. For example, a crtitic may dismiss an argument as being a hasty generalization when the advocate believes both that a sufficient number of examples have been presented and that the examples are typical. In short, the labeling of the argument may be done to prematurely dismiss arguments, rather than to promote an analysis of the strength of the argument".

You don't want a logical debate you just want to be right no matter what. You are just as voluntarily ignorant as the people who's beliefs you look down on.

 

[TheHeretic]

This really is amateur hour. Let me show you what you are doing.

You don't want a logical debate you just want to be right no matter what. You are just as voluntarily ignorant as the people who's beliefs you look down on.

You are right, I don't want a logical debate about a UFO conspiracy because UFO conspiracies are fucking retarded. Call it a fallacy, what do I care.

 

[Shaheed79]

You are right, I don't want a logical debate about a UFO conspiracy because UFO conspiracies are fucking retarded. Call it a fallacy, what do I care.

You seem to have no concept of the huge gaping hole in your logic system. You are a little beyond ignorant because remaining objective for you teeters on the impossible. This is a guy talking Quantum Mechanics, EMF Wave Lengths and basic geometry to study an official NASA satellite video peering into the near ultra-violet spectrum and not some uneducated quack spouting out incoherent "conspiracy theories" without an ounce of evidence to back up his or her claims. People like you are some of the most ignorant people around as you like to throw these two vastly different forms of argumentations and evidence into the same "fucking retarded" category with the sort of unjustified prejudice that facilitates circular ignorance and the stunting of scientific expansion and understanding that goes along with it.

 

[TheHeretic]

You seem to have no concept of the huge gaping hole in your logic system. You are a little beyond ignorant because remaining objective for you teeters on the impossible. This is a guy talking Quantum Mechanics, EMF Wave Lengths and basic geometry to study an official NASA satellite video peering into the near ultra-violet spectrum and not some uneducated quack spouting out incoherent "conspiracy theories" without an ounce of evidence to back up his or her claims. People like you are some of the most ignorant people around as you like to throw these two vastly different forms of argumentations and evidence into the same "fucking retarded" category with the sort of unjustified prejudice that facilitates circular ignorance and the stunting of scientific expansion and understanding that goes along with it.

I don't believe in millions of space aliens because of an unfocused camera and blobs of god knows what flying around everywhere. You can apply as many big words as you want (which you often do) it doesn't change the fact you have a blurry, crappy video and some over enthusiastic wind bag who claims these are "life forms" within the first minute of the video.

 

[Shaheed79]

I don't believe in millions of space aliens because of an unfocused camera and blobs of god knows what flying around everywhere. You can apply as many big words as you want (which you often do) it doesn't change the fact you have a blurry, crappy video and some over enthusiastic wind bag who claims these are "life forms" within the first minute of the video.

Wow. You cannot possibly be that dense. Either that or you have gone into full protect the hive mode. You sound about as grounded and objective as a 9 year old Nintendo fanatic arguing the lack of redeeming qualities of Sega consoles back in 1994.

 

[Feep]

Wow. You cannot possibly be that dense. Either that or you have gone into full protect the hive mode. You sound as bout as grounded and objective as a 9 year old Nintendo fanatic arguing the lack of redeeming qualities of Sega consoles back in 1994.

I am a simple man. Whether it be God, Bigfoot, ghosts, UFOs, or a decent Coldplay album, I need proof that it exists. If something physical exists, it should not be very difficult for people to verify its existence. I am not "shutting my mind" against the possibility, but that video was some serious tinfoil hat shit, man.

Conspiracy theorists love to point out the mainstream scientific community's pressure against anything that goes against the current theories, but as my father (and I, to a limited extent) are heavily involved in this community, that is complete bullshit. Every scientist wants to be the next Rutherford, the next Curie, whatever, to start a scientific revolution and receive fame and accolades for the rest of their lives.

If 100,000 of the smartest people alive say something is bullshit, then it's FUCKING BULLSHIT.

 

[Monocle]

Wow. You cannot possibly be that dense. Either that or you have gone into full protect the hive mode. You sound as bout as grounded and objective as a 9 year old Nintendo fanatic arguing the lack of redeeming qualities of Sega consoles back in 1994.

How quickly we've regressed to ad hominem. :lol

 

[Shaheed79]

I don't believe in millions of space aliens because of an unfocused camera and blobs of god knows what flying around everywhere. You can apply as many big words as you want (which you often do) it doesn't change the fact you have a blurry, crappy video and some over enthusiastic wind bag who claims these are "life forms" within the first minute of the video.

You obviously haven't watched the videos as you are trying to dismiss it yet again with false generalizations and opinionated put downs like "enthusiastic wind bag". First off the camera is peering into the near ultra-violet spectrum and are of good enough quality to make basic analysis and contentions against NASA's Bullshit claims of the anomalies in question. Also the film focuses in several times and are clear enough for you to not only see the objects passing behind the tether but you can actually see that the objects are semi-translucent and resonating at what looks like a high energy frequency. You aren't qualified to analyze anything objectively if this is the manner in which you go about doing so.

 

[Shaheed79]

I am a simple man. Whether it be God, Bigfoot, ghosts, UFOs, or a decent Coldplay album, I need proof that it exists. If something physical exists, it should not be very difficult for people to verify its existence. I am not "shutting my mind" against the possibility, but that video was some serious tinfoil hat shit, man.

Conspiracy theorists love to point out the mainstream scientific community's pressure against anything that goes against the current theories, but as my father (and I, to a limited extent) are heavily involved in this community, that is complete bullshit. Every scientist wants to be the next Rutherford, the next Curie, whatever, to start a scientific revolution and receive fame and accolades for the rest of their lives.

If 100,000 of the smartest people alive say something is bullshit, then it's FUCKING BULLSHIT.

I'm inclined to agree with the first sentence you stated and pretty much most of the second sentence. Everything else I think correlates directly to your first declaration.

 

[Shaheed79]

How quickly we've regressed to ad hominem. :lol

First off you are calling me on that after all the side-stepping other people have done in this topic including him? Second what he said was anything but "factual" and third I went into more detail as to why what he said was nothing more than dismissive fallacy to substantiate his stance of ignoring any and all evidence pertaining to the subject matter.

Edit: I seriously cannot get over the irony of you attempting to call me out on "ad hominem" given the weak counter-argument I was replying to. It's like trying to call out the kettle for being black while completely ignoring the pot sitting right next to it.

 

[Feep]

I'm inclined to agree with the first sentence you stated and pretty much most of the second sentence. Everything else I think correlates directly to your first declaration.

Ad hominem is fucking right, yeesh. You'd be a wonder in modern debates.

"So as I've clearly proved, this phenomenon is easily explainable and in fact--"
"NAH NAH NAH YOU'RE STUPID LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

Go cry more. No matter what you believe, the truth remains independent of your idiocy. You think you're smarter than the brilliant men who devote their lives to peer-reviewed, intelligent research? Your life will continue as you shout blithely through their windowsills, desperate to make your voice heard, desperate to prove your separation from the endless legions of idiot theorists who came before you and were equally wrong.

Since you've decided to ignore facts and intelligent discussion, this conversation is over.

 

[TheHeretic]

You obviously haven't watched the videos as you are trying to dismiss it yet again with false generalizations and opinionated put downs like "enthusiastic wind bag". First off the camera is peering into the near ultra-violet spectrum and are of good enough quality to make basic analysis and contentions against NASA's Bullshit claims of the anomalies in question. Also the film focuses in several times and are clear enough for you to not only see the objects passing behind the tether but you can actually see that the objects are semi-translucent and resonating at what looks like a high energy frequency. You aren't qualified to analyze anything objectively if this is the manner in which you go about doing so.

You see, NASA is a very important institution. NASA explores space, monitors the earth, and comments on environmental issues. Claiming NASA is "bullshit" when they are home to some of the most brilliant minds of our time, because you have a video of shit flying all over the place (on youtube in a shitty resolution) and a conspiracy theorist explaining the "aleins", i'm going with NASA. NASA isn't batshit fucking insane, and its pretty obvious you are.

 

[Shaheed79]

Ad hominem is fucking right, yeesh. You'd be a wonder in modern debates.

"So as I've clearly proved, this phenomenon is easily explainable and in fact--"
"NAH NAH NAH YOU'RE STUPID LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

Go cry more. No matter what you believe, the truth remains independent of your idiocy. You think you're smarter than the brilliant men who devote their lives to peer-reviewed, intelligent research? Your life will continue as you shout blithely through their windowsills, desperate to make your voice heard, desperate to prove your separation from the endless legions of idiot theorists who came before you and were equally wrong.

Since you've decided to ignore facts and intelligent discussion, this conversation is over.

Thank you for your relaxed, well thought out and conclusive tirade and analysis.

 

[Feep]

You are most certainly welcome.

 

[Shaheed79]

You see, NASA is a very important institution. NASA explores space, monitors the earth, and comments on environmental issues. Claiming NASA is "bullshit" when they are home to some of the most brilliant minds of our time, because you have a video of shit flying all over the place (on youtube in a shitty resolution) and a conspiracy theorist explaining the "aleins", i'm going with NASA. NASA isn't batshit fucking insane, and its pretty obvious you are.

You are a fools fool if you believe NASA never lies and is home to "most of the brilliant minds of our time". Why don't you further watch the other parts of the video where he discusses the correspondence between him and the senior director at NASA. He was very fair in presenting NASA's claims as well as his counter-arguments against their claims and even the Chief Scientist at NASA acknowledged and PRAISED his level of knowledge and the astute intellectual deduction skills he displayed while debating his side of the argument throughout said correspondence.

Here buy this book and draw your on conclusions.
http://www.lulu.com/content/163328

He includes all of the correspondence from these "most brilliant minds of our time" at NASA so you can see first hand what they stated to refute his claims and decide for yourself whether or not they are telling the truth instead of letting NASA do your thinking for you. But that seems to be the problem with all sheep they want everyone else who they deem "qualified" to draw conclusions for them instead of forming their own opinions.

 

[Yagharek]

There are so many logical fallacies being argued here, especially those of the sort that "humans can't comprehend god, it is beyond our abilities to understand" etc etc.

Yes, you are entitled to that personal belief. That goes without saying.

But that is not an argument. It is a withdrawal from the argument, and not a point of any merit.

At the end of the day, arguments about the existence or not of god are futile because:
a) People don't often concede to the other side of the debate
b) It is an inherently unfalsifiable concept (that a god exists)
c) Science is not yet at the level capable of comprehensively explaining the origin of the universe (it may do in the future, it may be that there are things that will be in principle impossible to test)

At the end of the day, the only way we will know the answer to the first question is when we die (and even then that is assuming there is an afterlife, maybe god doesnt share :lol ).

I personally doubt there is a god based on a complete lack of evidence. But I know I will never be vindicated and that doesn't bother me.

 

[Monocle]

First off you are calling me on that after all the side-stepping other people have done in this topic including him? Second what he said was anything but "factual" and third I went into more detail as to why what he said was nothing more than dismissive fallacy to substantiate his stance of ignoring any and all evidence pertaining to the subject matter.

And exactly how many of those points neutralize the fact that you made the conscious choice to be pejorative? If you're convinced of your correctness, you might consider conducting yourself in more civil manner. The first step to winning someone's mind is gaining their respect. (Refraining from cramming your opinions down the throats of the disinterested is optional but also recommended.)

Edit: I seriously cannot get over the irony of you attempting to call me out on "ad hominem" given the weak counter-argument I was replying to. It's like trying to call out the kettle for being black while completely ignoring the pot sitting right next to it.

Pardon me for noticing that the tone of your posts doesn't fit your message at all. I was simply amused by the hypocrisy of someone extolling rationality with the same fluster and bluster of a rent-a-cop teetering on the edge of his mid-life crisis breathlessly lecturing a loud pack of kids for running through the mall. To the best of my knowledge, no tenet of logic holds that a weak argument is an invitation to assail its proponent with mockery.

If you haven't been able to tell by now, I'm not exactly hanging on every word in this thread. I scanned through a few pages out of idle curiosity and your strident tone, coupled with the subject matter of your posts, caught my eye. I don't claim to have the first clue about the twists and turns of the discussion I interrupted. To be perfectly honest, I don't think I want one. Now, if you're intent on continuing to harass the posters you've apparently been trying to corner, don't let me cramp your style.


Edit:

I personally doubt there is a god based on a complete lack of evidence. But I know I will never be vindicated and that doesn't bother me.

It seems to me that we need only look at the likelihood of the existence of an intervening god to realize that a categorical refutation of such is not, in fact, required for disbelief. Stated another way, who cares if no one can definitively disprove a deity's existence when the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Russell's teapot are equally likely to exist? To a rational mind, what more is needed than the knowledge that an infinitude of absurd beings and objects enjoy the same evidentiary support as Yahweh, Zeus, Ganesha and all the rest?