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[Confidence Man]

At a certain point I think brain_stew is just going to say "Fuck this". Honestly I don't know why you even want to put in the effort.

 

[ghst]

think i'm gonna start collecting these.

of all the abhorrent designs that this generation has inflicted on us, grown individuals being forced to represent themselves through creepy rape mascots is surely the most demeaning. the fact gfwl hasn't made me mold one of these little envoys of hate yet is probably its closest thing to a redeeming feature.

 

[brain_stew]

At a certain point I think brain_stew is just going to say "Fuck this". Honestly I don't know why you even want to put in the effort.

Why would I finally have that attitude now when there's been more progress made in the last few months than the last few years?

I'm not denying the base product was horrendous, but exclusive IP, a much improved store, new login credentials, better DRM than Steam and improved voice chat are all steps in the right direction. If they're to make a difference then they have to only be the start but at least its real tangible progress and shows that someone finally gives a shit about the service. Heck, finally engaging with the community was an important first step.

That shit like no wireless controller support in DR2, GFWL not working with the Steam version of LP2 and the patching system continuing to be complete shit show that fundamental things still need fixing, though.

 

[Interfectum]

Why would I finally have that attitude now when there's been more progress made in the last few months than the last few years?

I'm not denying the base product was horrendous, but exclusive IP, a much improved store, new login credentials, better DRM than Steam and improved voice chat are all steps in the right direction. If they're to make a difference then they have to only be the start but at least its real tangible progress and shows that someone finally gives a shit about the service. Heck, finally engaging with the community was an important first step.

That shit like no wireless controller support in DR2, GFWL not working with the Steam version of LP2 and the patching system continuing to be complete shit show that fundamental things still need fixing, though.

I dunno... still seems pointless.

"Having better DRM than steam" doesn't really appeal to me as I don't mind Steam at all. Exclusive IP really isn't a draw either. They could just as easily drop GFWL and sell their games on Steam like everyone else.

I don't want a game store from Microsoft. They bring absolutely nothing to the table other than their usual bullshit headaches. They've also not given me any reason to trust they'll actually do a good job this time. And if they did, how long would it last? Look at what they are doing to their Xbox division now with Kinect and Mii Avatars. What's to stop MS from dropping AAA PC games altogether and just make a Facebook wannabe site where they sell us Flash games... but with Achievements!

If MS wants to get back into the PC games business with really good games then I'm all for it. They have the money to produce some truly groundbreaking content if they wanted to. Put the games on D2D, Steam and the rest. Throw in some achievements for good measure if need be. Quit trying to lock people into a pointless service.

 

[Malio]

Best thing about GFWL was when Micro$oft tried to get PC gamers to actually pay for the service. Hahahahah, no one paid and they had to make it FREE! Hahah that was sweet!

Just like Xbox Liv...oh, wait.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

exclusive IP

I like how you don't realize that mentioning this conjures up memories of Microsoft holding those games hostage to better sell them on the 360, essentially inserting a negative in to what is ostensibly a list of positive GFWL aspects.

 

[Gully State]

The one and only way Microsoft could get me into using GFWL would be to bring their 360 exclusives to the platform and judging by the comments by everyone else on this thread, it's a shared sentiment. While the other stuff is a step in the right direction (pertaining to the DRM), in the end it just feels like they're just trying to stop the exodus of developers/publishers from GFWL to STEAM rather than offer the consumer a compelling platform to adopt. You can overhaul the system all you want but without the games, there's never going to be any reason for a consumer to adopt.

 

[evangd007]

I like how you don't realize that mentioning this conjures up memories of Microsoft holding those games hostage to better sell them on the 360, essentially inserting a negative in to what is ostensibly a list of positive GFWL aspects.

Comfy couch still hurts me to this day.

 

[Confusion Illusion]

My biggest gripe are the lock save files. My Batman AA progress has been rendered completely useless after upgrading from XP to Windows 7.

 

[BobsRevenge]

I can't have my computer connected to the internet while playing Bioshock 2 or it crashes because of a GFWL update to it.

My copy of The Club that I got off of gamersgate is broken because of GFWL, as in GFWL doesn't work at all in it so I can't save my game or do anything really.

Almost all the matchmaking using it is slow and has connection issues.

Updating a game locks down your game completely.

I've had more issues I'm forgetting, but basically I've learned to hate it because it has in effect taken away more value from my games than its added. So... that's fucked up.

edit: Oh, and sometimes logging in is janky.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

My biggest gripe are the lock save files. My Batman AA progress has been rendered completely useless after upgrading from XP to Windows 7.

Is that GfWL's fault? I've transfered my RE5 saves from XP to Win7 without a trouble... although I first had to find them, because they were hidden somewhere deep in a user folder. I don't understand this; there's this sweet "Saved Games" folder in My Documents and yet even Microsoft doesn't use it :/.

Comfy couch still hurts me to this day.

All those years... waiting for nothing.

 

[Struct09]

My biggest gripe are the lock save files. My Batman AA progress has been rendered completely useless after upgrading from XP to Windows 7.

I transferred my Batman save when I upgraded from Vista to 7 (new hard drive even). It's not the most intuitive process, but there's tutorials out there on how to do it.

 

[TheExodu5]

Turn GFWL into an overlay. Let me party chat with my 360 buddies no matter the game I'm in. You're not going to beat Steam, but you can complement it.

 

[brain_stew]

I'm on a conference call with the senior director of PC and Mobile gaming tonight and I've sent this email in advance, highlighting some of the issues raised in this thread:

Hi, I' I've got a few things I'd like covering in the conference call but I may forget to bring up, so I'll send the list to you:

* What exactly is certification achieving? In the past couple months there has been two high profile GFWL that have passed cert. despite missing some pretty obvious features (no wireless controller support in Dead Rising 2 and a multiplayer mode in Lost Planet 2 that isn't compatible with the Steam version are basic features that shouldn't be slipping through). If cert. isn't managing to deliver the basic features that people expect from the GFWL branding then why does it exist? Unless it can be proven to improve the gameplay experience for end users (and currently it can't, these are hardly isolated examples, in my experience GFWL titles have historically been among the most bug ridden on the market) then why stifle developers and make potential new partners hesitant to support the service? Either tighten up the cert. process and make its existance justifiable or drop it entirely, the current middle ground is only delivering an objectively inferior product.



* The new 5x5 DRM scheme, can this please be clarified? The press release said that "machine activation limits are unchanged" but, erm, unchanged from what exactly? Are there limits or are there not? What are those limits. If I couldn't come away from reading that press release being able to understand specifically what the DRM restrictions are after spending time learning the ins and outs of the service, then your average customer certainly won't be able to. I've said it all along but this is another example where greater transparency is necessary, nothing is worse than unclear DRM limits.



* Xbox exclusivity agreements, why the hell don't these encompass GFWL? I'm specifically talking about products like Super Meat Boy and the new Tomb Raider game, projects that are due to arrive on the PC anyway, but are simply delayed because Xbox HQ strikes up a contract to prevent it for a month or two. I understand why these agreements are sort at both retail and through DD, but why the hell are Microsoft spending resources and influence to actively sabotage their own service? How the hell does spending money to prevent another wing of the business from selling some content (be it an XBLA title, some DLC or a retail game) benefit Microsoft in the grand scheme of things? I'm not asking MS to ditch these agreements, but instead of limiting them to the 360 why not limit them to the 360 and GFWL on Demand! That way MS still receives their ~30% fee from every unit sold in that exclusive period but they also give their PC service a much needed raison d'etre (exclusive content) and they actually generate more revenue from the same agreement. Nobody is going to buy a 360 after all these years of ignoring the platform simply because they get to play Super Meat Boy a month earlier, so why turn down their cash? They're willing to buy a PC copy and with the game being exclusive to your service for a month or two (leveraging agreements that are already being put in place) means that you're actually going to get their cash this time instead of Steam receiving it a month later.



* What's this about "pressuring" THQ to readopt GFWL despite their developers fighting tooth and nail to avoid it? Sorry, but this is a shitty strategy and is pure short termism. What ever resources are being put into these "agreements" would be better spent on improving their service. Steamworks has achieved much wider adoption than GFWL ever did by simply being a better product. Its not rocket science really, offer a better service and developers will start seriously considering GFWL again on their own. This is the only possible way to establish the service long term, forcing developers to adopt a subpar service (and sorry, but that's what GFWL is atm) is only going to sour relations long term breed bad will among the development community.



* Exclusive content is so badly overdue. Within my community, its the one thing that people constantly bring up that would signal some amount of goodwill. All those 360 titles that are left festering on store shelves, that are no longer driving adoption, that aren't generating MS any extra revenue since they're not being reprinted, why not go ahead and sell these games through GFWL, generate some real revenue and give the service a genuine exclusive feature? No one is expecting retail PC releases of catalogue Xbox titles from MS, but why can't they be put on the GFWL store? A port of an UE3 title like Gears 2 to PC is such a trivial cost that its a very low risk venture, yet it allows the service to justify its existence by offering exclusive content and a steady revenue stream going forward.



* Any chance of a voice patch for Shadowrun. Since this is a MGS title, a game where voice communication is crucial and a title that Microsoft continues to sell, it would send a good signal to third parties that sorting out the voice comms in cross platform titles is worth doing. Its just a small thing, but its something that would show MS actually care about delivering a decent community experience even if the short term financial benefits are not obvious, its again something that will create much needed good will. Another point about the



* When is voice comms coming to the standalone client? From what I gather even WP7 users can communicate with Xbox users outside of games now, but PC users can't? Wtf? Obviously you can still restrict paty chat with Xbox users to Gold members, but come on, if I'm coughing up for that expensive Gold subscription, at least let me communicate with my Xbox buddies when I'm on my PC, without having to boot up a game I don't want to play. It delivers tighter integration between the platforms, it further helps to justify the Gold fee and rewards PC users that are willing to invest in the Xbox platform, basically it makes all kind of sense and should have been delivered a long time ago, can I be reassured that it is on the way?



* Does the move to the webstore signal the end of investment into the dedicated client? I seriously hope this is not the case, as a lot of people prefer a dedicated client. Its a great (and much needed) addition but other popular services like Impulse and Steam offer a two pronged approach and its the best way to satisfy all market needs, so can I have reassurance



* With the recent overhaul of Xbox.com, signing into the GFWL sends up an error message, that sends you to a none-existent page, this isn't a good customer experience. An update to the client should have been coordinated with the new subscriber agreement (which is what causes the problem), your customers shouldn't have been left to figure this one out on their own. At least make the page the error message sends you to redirect you to the relevant part of the new website, ffs. This is basic stuff you're still getting wrong.

Issues like the previous broken DRM scheme (which has thankfully been abolished), region locking and locked saved games have all been brought up already. Is there anything else that anyone wants me to mention on the conference call which I've missed here?

The whole point of this project was to get the community engaging with Microsoft's top brass so take advantage of that and I'll try my best to pass on what I can, many of the points I raised in the prep. email are taken directly from GAF threads.

I'll try and pass on any answers that can be shared but appreciate that I am under NDA so I'LL only give feedback on certain things.

 

[Zzoram]

I transferred my Batman save when I upgraded from Vista to 7 (new hard drive even). It's not the most intuitive process, but there's tutorials out there on how to do it.

Why suffer through that when Steam Cloud automatically syncs your saves across all computers? Steam is just better for consumers.

 

[plagiarize]

Why suffer through that when Steam Cloud automatically syncs your saves across all computers? Steam is just better for consumers.

stream is great. but you know what would be better for consumers? more competition in this space.

even if you want to stick with steam it would likely only make it better.

 

[CecilRousso]

Any titles that shipped with Securom or similar purely did so at the publishers discretion, it was never a GFWL requirement.

It isn´t, but since publishers almost always use Securom along with GfWL it is one area where MS can improve the service, by either refusing it or make sure that better alternatives are used.

 

[Gully State]

I'm on a conference call with the senior director of PC and Mobile gaming tonight and I've sent this email in advance, highlighting some of the issues raised in this thread:




Issues like the previous broken DRM scheme (which has thankfully been abolished), region locking and locked saved games have all been brought up already. Is there anything else that anyone wants me to mention on the conference call which I've missed here?

The whole point of this project was to get the community engaging with Microsoft's top brass so take advantage of that and I'll try my best to pass on what I can, many of the points I raised in the prep. email are taken directly from GAF threads.

I'll try and pass on any answers that can be shared but appreciate that I am under NDA so I'LL only give feedback on certain things.

That was a well written email that summarizes my complaints about GFWL. I'm glad I'm not the only one confused with the 5x5 DRM Scheme. One suggestion that I don't see brought up, is that instead of a client, why not just integrate features into games explorer? Ideally GFW and Games Explorer should be one program.

 

[Zzoram]

stream is great. but you know what would be better for consumers? more competition in this space.

even if you want to stick with steam it would likely only make it better.

That would only be good if it was real competition not artificial money hat competition. Steam is the best service for gamers. GFW only has support because of pressure from Microsoft. All those developers would rather use steamworks.

 

[brain_stew]

That was a well written email that summarizes my complaints about GFWL. I'm glad I'm not the only one confused with the 5x5 DRM Scheme. One suggestion that I don't see brought up, is that instead of a client, why not just integrate features into games explorer? Ideally GFW and Games Explorer should be one program.

Its a nice idea but I think its a bit late for that, and its a potential anti-trust suit waiting to happen.

 

[chautemoc]

GFWL not working with the Steam version of LP2

Any update on what's happening there? It's really killing the game. =/

 

[poppabk]

That was a well written email that summarizes my complaints about GFWL. I'm glad I'm not the only one confused with the 5x5 DRM Scheme. One suggestion that I don't see brought up, is that instead of a client, why not just integrate features into games explorer? Ideally GFW and Games Explorer should be one program.

An improved games explorer integrated with a standalone GFWL client would give them a big boost. People are crying out for a solid game launcher front-end, just look at the excitement that was generated by steams (relatively poor) updated front-end recently. When you have a catalog of 100+ digital titles, you want a way to easily view your games and show your collection off.

 

[FLEABttn]

My biggest gripe are the lock save files. My Batman AA progress has been rendered completely useless after upgrading from XP to Windows 7.

A few days late on this but I had a similar problem. I suspected my hard drive was going to crash so I backed up my Fallout 3 save file to an external drive. Upon getting a new computer, I transfered it back to find it not usable because of the locked save files. Maybe there was a way to get around that but when that's bullshit that I don't have to deal with with pretty much any other game/service, I didn't bother googling a solution.

I haven't bothered with Fallout 3 since because losing 35 hours of progress isn't exactly something that makes me want to go back and try again.

 

[poppabk]

Its a nice idea but I think its a bit late for that, and its a potential anti-trust suit waiting to happen.

Not if it was an optional download. The current game explorer is next to useless anyway seeing as you can't manually add games.

 

[brotkasten]

I'm on a conference call with the senior director of PC and Mobile gaming tonight and I've sent this email in advance, highlighting some of the issues raised in this thread:




Issues like the previous broken DRM scheme (which has thankfully been abolished), region locking and locked saved games have all been brought up already. Is there anything else that anyone wants me to mention on the conference call which I've missed here?

The whole point of this project was to get the community engaging with Microsoft's top brass so take advantage of that and I'll try my best to pass on what I can, many of the points I raised in the prep. email are taken directly from GAF threads.

I'll try and pass on any answers that can be shared but appreciate that I am under NDA so I'LL only give feedback on certain things.

This is really great and I appreciate your effort. I hope you can address all those points.

 

[brain_stew]

Any update on what's happening there? It's really killing the game. =/

Like I say, if I get an answer (and it isn't under NDA) then I'll let you guys know as much as I can.

 

[Gully State]

Its a nice idea but I think its a bit late for that, and its a potential anti-trust suit waiting to happen.

I don't know if it's possible, but seeing as the store will be browser base, they wouldn't have to tie Games Explorer to the digital store (or at least take you to the storefront). Anyways, I've always felt that Games Explorer has had potential to be really good and its existence with GFWL client has always made the client feel very superfluous.

 

[brain_stew]

Not if it was an optional download. The current game explorer is next to useless anyway seeing as you can't manually add games.

I actually used it extensively in Vista, with a third party tool that let you manually add games it was great. It was cut back in W7 though, and the OS is worse for it. Its definitely something I'd appreciate, even if the functionality was within the GFWL client, it'd give me a genuine reason to have it installed, and its not as if this is an area that Steam does particularly well, not at all.

 

[duckroll]

Like I say, if I get an answer (and it isn't under NDA) then I'll let you guys know as much as I can.

"Hey guys, why isn't this game working like it should?"

"Because our service fucking sucks and we're a bunch of monkeys running a garbage scam, but you can't tell anyone. NDA!"

"Oh okay."

What an awesome service. :lol

 

[Painraze]

stream is great. but you know what would be better for consumers? more competition in this space.

even if you want to stick with steam it would likely only make it better.

Not if MS starts strong arming developers to not use Steamworks. MS has the potential to make the PC gaming space worse with exclusivity deals.

Competition is great, I agree, but not the type of competition MS would most likely bring to the table. They've already shown they can't catch up through features and innovation... their only recourse is to buy themselves back into the market (THQ deal incoming perhaps?).

 

[Gully State]

Think about it this way. If MS moneyhats PC development for exclusivity, what would that encourage from the competition? Innovation and better features for customers or just more exclusivity? My money would be on the latter.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Yeah, competition from MS, Apple, or a couple other companies that I'm not remembering right now is never a good thing. They are very predatory and the consumer is looked at as a commodity to be exploited and stuffed into closed synergistic loops of their product lines.

I'd rather be looked at as a potential customer and a human being to be respected.

Steam and Impulse have a good level of respect towards the consumer behind them, at least from what is apparent.

 

[Struct09]

Why suffer through that when Steam Cloud automatically syncs your saves across all computers? Steam is just better for consumers.

Because Batman isn't a Steam Cloud supported game

You'll get no argument from me, Steam Cloud is awesome and I hope that GFWL offers up a cloud-saving feature in the future. Just sayin' that you can transfer that Batman save if you need to.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

One thing I would add to the list of GFW(L) complains: use the "Saved Games" folder ffs. It's annoying that every single game, even GFW titles, puts their save data and configuration files in different places. It makes backuping them a hassle.

 

[duckroll]

Oh and while I'm here, I have a legitimate complain about GFWL for brain_stew to forward to MS. A friend of mine bought Dead Rising 2 off Steam. He put the cdkey into his GFWL account, and he started playing. Subsequently, his brother bought Dead Rising 2 off Steam as well (they have separate accounts). When his brother started the game, he didn't notice that the GFWL account it logged into was my friend's account, and it STILL asked for a cdkey (presumably because GFWL's DRM is so crappy that each individual software even of the same game has a unique cdkey programmed into it). So he keyed it in. And it accepted it. Yes, the same GFWL account can accept two different cdkeys from the same game. There goes 40 bucks down the drain.

How is this even acceptable? Seriously.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Oh and while I'm here, I have a legitimate complain about GFWL for brain_stew to forward to MS. A friend of mine bought Dead Rising 2 off Steam. He put the cdkey into his GFWL account, and he started playing. Subsequently, his brother bought Dead Rising 2 off Steam as well (they have separate accounts). When his brother started the game, he didn't notice that the GFWL account it logged into was my friend's account, and it STILL asked for a cdkey (presumably because GFWL's DRM is so crappy that each individual software even of the same game has a unique cdkey programmed into it). So he keyed it in. And it accepted it. Yes, the same GFWL account can accept two different cdkeys from the same game. There goes 40 bucks down the drain.

How is this even acceptable? Seriously.

I'd give Microsoft's support for Live a ring and see if you can get it disconnected from the account by causing a stink, and then have it connected to the right one.

Hopefully they'll oblige.

 

[duckroll]

I'd give Microsoft's support for Live a ring and see if you can get it disconnected from the account by causing a stink, and then have it connected to the right one.

Hopefully they'll oblige.

Yes, I know. I'm not looking for assistance to fix that particular problem here. I'm just highlighting another area which the service can improve on to prevent such things from happening. The example given was to illustrate how frustrating a normal purchase can become because of a simple effort which shouldn't really happen in the first place with account based DD.

 

[TransTrender]

stream is great. but you know what would be better for consumers? more competition in this space.

Sure more competition is great, but Microsoft doesn't bring real competition. They offer heavy handed tactics, moneyhats, faux exclusivity, and business deals that hurt the consumer.

I don't want them in this market. They have nothing positive to add.

EDIT: Looks like everyone already jumped all over this.

 

[Gully State]

Yes, I know. I'm not looking for assistance to fix that particular problem here. I'm just highlighting another area which the service can improve on to prevent such things from happening. The example given was to illustrate how frustrating a normal purchase can become because of a simple effort which shouldn't really happen in the first place with account based DD.

Never thought that this could happen. I've often thought it was strange that a game like Dirt2 prompted me for a CD key months down the line. Really it should only ask for it during the initial launch. Really these are small issues that shouldn't have required user feedback to address in the first place.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

at this point I feel the best thing they could possibly do is drop GFWL and make a deal with Valve to do some kind of steam - XBL integration and maybe a microsoft section in the steam store

 

[brain_stew]

Yes, I know. I'm not looking for assistance to fix that particular problem here. I'm just highlighting another area which the service can improve on to prevent such things from happening. The example given was to illustrate how frustrating a normal purchase can become because of a simple effort which shouldn't really happen in the first place with account based DD.

I think the new "5x5" DRM and signin credentials are designed to tackle this issue, but I'll try and get it clarified for you.

So that I'm clear. The problem with DR2 is that it lets you tie 2 (or more seperate GFWL keys to a single account? Is that correct?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Any update on what's happening there? It's really killing the game. =/

Are you effing kidding me? They still haven't fixed that. I remember when Volynika posted about how they might get an update out later that day (of release). I thought, "How cute." But I sure as heck never thought it'd still be unpatched to this day. I hope everyone requested refunds for Steam purchases.

 

[CecilRousso]

The only question I would want an answer to is why I as a very satisfied Steam customer should want Games for Windows Live in any of games. The questions here are valid questions, but they all seem to relate to either the very basic things that should have been fixed already, or exclusives which would only serve as a further annoyance to the Steam community.

I mean, Microsoft can´t really be expecting to win ground by just fetching the dissatisfied Steam customers and try to win the others by offering something that is similiar but not quite as good?

So my question to the video conference would be; What could MS bring to the table that the established competitors doesn´t already have, and isn´t Gamerscore?

(but I don´t expect anything new being brought to light really. As a software developer myself, my experience with MS video conferences is quite underwhelming).

 

[duckroll]

I think the new "5x5" DRM and signin credentials are designed to tackle this issue, but I'll try and get it clarified for you.

So that I'm clear. The problem with DR2 is that it lets you tie 2 (or more seperate GFWL keys to a single account? Is that correct?

Yes. I feel that a good solution would be if the GFWL account knows when a game is already owned by the account. That way this problem won't occur at all, since it won't accept a duplicate a key. A message saying the account already owns this game would be great.

 

[brain_stew]

The only question I would want an answer to is why I as a very satisfied Steam customer should want Games for Windows Live in any of games. The questions here are valid questions, but they all seem to relate to either the very basic things that should have been fixed already, or exclusives which would only serve as a further annoyance to the Steam community.
.

How exactly would the release of games that would never be released in the first place if not for GFWL annoy the Steam community?

These games we're discussing aren't appearing on Steam atm, and no one is asking for games to be taken away from Steam, just titles to be added to GFWL. You're never going to get Gears 2 on Steam, just as you're never going to get HL2 on GFWL, but Gears 2 being available through GFWL is better than it not being available to PC gamers at all.

 

[leroidys]

Not to argue against the fact that GFWL is a pile of shit right now and that microsoft has no focus for the service, but if any of you guys used steam when it first came out... it was 10x the turd that GFWL is, so there is hope that it will be substantially improved.

I think the best thing for gamers is always competition. How many awesome sales do you think steam will have if they control 80% of the software distribution?

 

[Painraze]

Not to argue against the fact that GFWL is a pile of shit right now and that microsoft has no focus for the service, but if any of you guys used steam when it first came out... it was 10x the turd that GFWL is, so there is hope that it will be substantially improved.

I think the best thing for gamers is always competition. How many awesome sales do you think steam will have if they control 80% of the software distribution?

Probably still a lot since it's not up to Valve. There is still software competition regardless of who's in charge of the DD store.

 

[poppabk]

Not to argue against the fact that GFWL is a pile of shit right now and that microsoft has no focus for the service, but if any of you guys used steam when it first came out... it was 10x the turd that GFWL is, so there is hope that it will be substantially improved.

I think the best thing for gamers is always competition. How many awesome sales do you think steam will have if they control 80% of the software distribution?

There would still be sales because publishers want to sell their software. This isn't physical media where steam agrees to buy 10000 copies from the publisher at $30 and then tries to sell it to us for $50.

 

[Vaporak]

Brainstew, something I'd bring up as a problem that I didn't see in your list is the locking of save files, connected to just general log in stability. When I was playing Dawn of War 2, every now and then GFWL would have sign in errors that no one in the community or developers could figure out. Not only was this locking me out from using the GFWL powered online system in Dow2, which was actually up and running, it also prevented me from playing the single player as well because of the locked savegames. The online portion is understandable, but preventing single player? Simply unacceptable, and makes me glad Relic is ditching GFWL for the next Dow2 expansion. Even just in principle, locking saves to online accounts just reeks of the exact control issues that makes people wary of Digital Distribution / DRM in the first place. At the very least they could offer Cloud Saving if they must keep the savegame locks.

 

[leroidys]

There would still be sales because publishers want to sell their software. This isn't physical media where steam agrees to buy 10000 copies from the publisher at $30 and then tries to sell it to us for $50.

Fair enough, but this ignores other factors at play. If steam is the main pipeline for game sales, they will undoubtedly raise the percentage that they collect from sales, which would in turn make devs reticent to offer as deep discounts, etc, etc. Also, it's likely that steam will slow down its evolution as a platform with no competition. The DRM will also likely get more stringent if they are able to lock out all competition. Monopolies are never good for the consumer.