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Why doesn't Rockstar cheap out on tech like Bethesda?
- Thread starter Windom Earle
- Start date
zackmorris
Member
I think Fallout 4 is a much better game than GTA 5. So at the end of the day, why does it matter?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
They did not try to turn mods into paid mods. That was a decision to be made by the developer of said mod. Please get your facts straight. Bethesda supports their modding community pretty well.
But giving someone the option to sell their work is completely different from what you are saying.
Windom Earle
Banned
Yes, it would be better to just ignore the issue like the majority of game journalists. Also I think GTA5 looks far better than Fallout 4, PC version at least. After all it should only be fair to compare two games with last gen roots, no?
alexbull_uk
Member
What the hell kind of thread is this, seriously? Could the Bethesda hate be any stronger right now?
Several aspects of their tech is not up to par for a AAA studio. Sound is one of the biggest ones which constantly feels like it's well over a generation behind their contemporaries.
Any indie dev with free FMOD or wwise middleware integrated into their Unity or UE4 project basically has exponentially more advanced sound functionality than what Bethesda uses internally.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Windom Earle
Banned
I am not directly comparing the games, just the approach to not settle with "good enough".
Honestly, who can defend the clusterfuck that is the Bethesda engine?
People don't understand why there are separate engines in the game developer world and think every game's "problem" is simply not being on UE4 (from reading similar threads)
I'm not against mod authors making money from their own work though, Bethesda just handled that very very poorly. Of course free is better for all
In this day and age despite the issues I may have with their games I still appreciate that Bethesda is one of the few companies to let people mod their games and provide the tools to do so. I really wish this wasn't the case and that it was more common but it seems to be a dying thing for big companies to support their creative fanbases. I consider that to be a big disappointment.
They would have gotten a very nice share of the revenue from that. The largest of the 3 stakeholders.
alexbull_uk
Member
For real. Some people just think that swapping engines is as easy as swapping shirts. PSA: it is not.
Bethesda's engine isn't a "clusterfuck". It's purpose built to do what it does, and the entire company is familiar on it and has built years of experience and middleware lessons into it. They've spent tons of money on it.
I've yet to see anyone actually articulate WHY Beth's engine is bad.
God, yeah... Not to even mention all those LAZY LAZY indie developers. God damn, everyone in this industry is SO LAZY.
I didn't spend $4500 on a brand new ultra high spec gaming PC to play this pathetic subpar peasant software!
I can't keep this charade up anymore. I'm gonna hurl.
I didn't spend $4500 on a brand new ultra high spec gaming PC to play this pathetic subpar peasant software!
I can't keep this charade up anymore. I'm gonna hurl.
The Baron Count
Member
You're not asking about engines. You're asking about graphics.
People's lack of understanding of what a game engine is makes my head spin.
This is probably partially companies like Epic and Crytek's for pushing visual features in the public eye like they are even remotely the most important part of an engine. Graphics are one part of a bigger whole. Bethesda's tech is highly specialized and I don't think there is another engine out there quite like it. Certainly not that I can think of.
As far as an engine designed for building open world games that are pretty, Rockstar are in another league from most. But Bethesda's engine is about open world simulation. That's what makes it special.
People's lack of understanding of what a game engine is makes my head spin.
This is probably partially companies like Epic and Crytek's for pushing visual features in the public eye like they are even remotely the most important part of an engine. Graphics are one part of a bigger whole. Bethesda's tech is highly specialized and I don't think there is another engine out there quite like it. Certainly not that I can think of.
As far as an engine designed for building open world games that are pretty, Rockstar are in another league from most. But Bethesda's engine is about open world simulation. That's what makes it special.
Their engine is not a "2005 engine", it's been significantly updated with each new game they made. Their fans are also not blind, and it's beyond annoying at this point to see people still spout this sort of self righteous nonsense, specially when it's been explained time and time again that the engine in their games is what allows them to build what people love about them.
yanipheonu
Member
... Yeah, just gonna ignore this thread, and hope it gets locked.
zackmorris
Member
It's such a small subset of people it doesn't even matter. The game reviewed incredibly well and sold incredibly well. People jumping on the Bethesda hate bandwagon is actually pretty hilarious to me, also seems incredibly disingenuous.
So much hostility. Bethesda prioritizes on different things, as the games are very different. Every studio has scope and budget.
When someone does what Bethesda does than maybe people will stop defending them.
Windom Earle
Banned
Maybe you should ask Giant Bomb / Gerstmann.
I could forgive the visuals if they would at least fix the framerate and animations.
I think they assume the glitches are custom built into it.
blame space
Banned
Sinfamy
Member
CertifiedFP
Member
Plugin-based mods, for one. That's one of the biggest things Bethesda games have that I'd say 99% of games don't.
sooper sik enb bruh
Mammoth Jones
Member
I can't. Fallout 4 needs s serious spit-polish patch. I don't think the game is good enough from a performance aspect to really release it.
I wish I had room in my home for a PC, it'd just brute force it with hardware. It's horrible for aiming on the XB1 when rocking 17 fps.
veloxStrix
Banned
Inflammatory title, lack of any real contribution to discussion, dancing around the real point by *cough* coughing to make themself seem witty.
Boys, we have a shitpost here.
To answer the question, I doubt Fallout "cheaped" out on tech. There probably wasn't a meeting where they got together and said, "How can we fuck over the people buying this game the most while still selling the game?". They probably did the most they could with the time they had and provided modding tools that would conveniently allow the community to improve and fix the game they made.
Unlike, I might add, another company that went out of it's way to make modding far more difficult than it should have been. I'm talking about Rockstar, by the way, in case you were wondering.
To be honest, what one person considers fine, another can consider broken. But there are definitely areas where mods fix some of the slop.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
Ryse looks amazing, The Order 1886 looks amazing, Fallout 4 looks sub par for 2015.
Windom Earle
Banned
Inflammatory title, lack of any real contribution to discussion, dancing around the real point by *cough* coughing to make themself seem witty.
Boys, we have a shitpost here.
To answer the question, I doubt Fallout "cheaped" out on tech. There probably wasn't a meeting where they got together and said, "How can we fuck over the people buying this game the most while still selling the game?". They probably did the most they could with the time they had and provided modding tools that would conveniently allow the community to improve and fix the game they made.
Unlike, I might add, another company that went out of it's way to make modding far more difficult than it should have been. I'm talking about Rockstar, by the way, in case you were wondering.
Ignoring the first part, but you seem to be the angry one.
Calling bullshit on the bolded part though. Why didn't they take more time to polish the game? Also modding support is no excuse to release the game in such a rough state. I prefer to buy my games in a polished and finished state.
CambriaRising
Member
It really really doesn't.
Rockstar does cheap out on tech. Just different kinds of tech. Rockstar games are expansive, well written, but mechanically shallow games with a ton of mini games and a volitile worlds where bugs are treated as features. I won't even begin on how busted their AI and physics are and how hypocritical people are when they compare GTA to BethRPGs.
That said Rockstar does completely different things than Bethesda does and they also have 3 times the staff and probably 3 times the budget. They are hardly equal on any terms and people play these games for completely different reasons.
That said Rockstar does completely different things than Bethesda does and they also have 3 times the staff and probably 3 times the budget. They are hardly equal on any terms and people play these games for completely different reasons.
100 Million still a big ass budget, and their game looks not even close reflecting that
Windom Earle
Banned
Nope, XB1/PS4 versions also run well and are not worlds away from the PC version.
FYI, Fallout 4 PC also drops down to 30fps in certain areas, even with a 980ti.
Last gen consoles are addressed in the OP.
Alex Stroud
Banned
Pride.
Bethesda tech always make me think their dev cycles consist of smoking weed until the June before their game releases, and then quickly pasting together unoptimized code and stilted dialogue in time for the release date.
Bethesda tech always make me think their dev cycles consist of smoking weed until the June before their game releases, and then quickly pasting together unoptimized code and stilted dialogue in time for the release date.
How can you call bullshit? Did you work on the project? Did you understand its scope, resources, deadline?
Fallout 4 feels finished, and apparently most critics agree... Go ahead paste that gif a third time.
TemplaerDude
Member
Have you played any of their games?
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
There are just two enemies, in a close corridor, and it somehow dips to up to 17FPS. Jesus.
Gotdatmoney
Member
They are in entirely dofferent sales tiers for one. Only recently did the Elder Scrolls and Fallout gain these huge type of sales.
Windom Earle
Banned
Why do I need to have worked on the project to judge the result? I am the one spending hard earned money on it. :lol I don't care about the dev goals or deadlines. If it's too rough, delay it. You can dislike the gif all you want, but it speaks a very clear language.
Are you just trying to come up with a cuter way to say "lazy devs"?
TheOhrenberger.
Banned
Shit threads encourage shit posts
Windom Earle
Banned
like yours
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Fallout's bread and butter is in the systems. GTA's bread and butter is the world itself.
That said a game that ugly shouldn't be dropping to 17fps in a ugly corridor with ugly enemies and ugly textures.
That said a game that ugly shouldn't be dropping to 17fps in a ugly corridor with ugly enemies and ugly textures.
Aren't most of the frame related issues solely related to people running around treating a RPG like a shooter?
I know some people don't like V.A.T.S., but c'mon.. I mean, sure they allow you to treat it as such, but isn't it immersion breaking to be firing at someone point blank and missing? At least with V.A.T.S. it makes sense from an RPG perspective.
I never got why people liked playing it the FPS way.
Anyways, the realistic GTA mod I posted earlier was to show that there can always be improvements mod wise.. that one was running at 15 FPS as I understand it.
I know some people don't like V.A.T.S., but c'mon.. I mean, sure they allow you to treat it as such, but isn't it immersion breaking to be firing at someone point blank and missing? At least with V.A.T.S. it makes sense from an RPG perspective.
I never got why people liked playing it the FPS way.
Anyways, the realistic GTA mod I posted earlier was to show that there can always be improvements mod wise.. that one was running at 15 FPS as I understand it.
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