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Why Don't More People Invest Expendable Income?

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More than half of Americans — 56 percent, to be exact — have less than $1,000 combined in their checking and savings accounts, according to a recent survey, Forbes reported.

This is to say, most Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck.

Furthermore, almost two-thirds of Americans — 63 percent — do not have enough in their savings for an emergency. A substantial majority of Americans would need to borrow money if faced with an unexpected expense.
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiem...avings-to-cover-a-500-emergency/#4bdf159a6dde

After essentials -- housing, transportation (incl. gas), food, utilities, and clothes -- the poor have 15% of their disposable income left over, and the $150K+ crowd has about 40%. This next graph uses those figures to tell how much disposable income a typical person making $17,500, $60,000 or $150,000 has left, after the essentials are taken care of:
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Screen%20Shot%202012-08-01%20at%203.35.29%20PM.png


This is only after housing, food, utilities, clothes and transportation. This chart does not include eating out, entertainment of any form, loans, credit card bills, nor emergencies that can set you back for years!
 
OP I like you, so we definitely do exist
When I was in college, I got one of those super high interest rate Savings account before the crash. All my paychecks dumped into that and I thought I was hot shit earning 5% interest and only pulling $ out to pay in full my cash back credit card. I was super diligent about where my money left and how much I was saving.

Now I'm older and I can tell you there's one thing you don't have a lot of. Time. I just recently got in to stocks, but there's a lot of work to be done if you are throwing money into it. Like for example, you think now is a good time to get in? Because I don't.
 
Probably not a good idea to encourage people who currently do not save to invest in individual stocks, and then add in "or index funds if you're risk-averse". The first suggestion should really be index funds because you don't need to know anything to be very successful. You can just dump some money in an S&P 500 index fund and enjoy a 9% average yearly return.

Even the best stock traders with tons of data and experience have a lot of difficulty beating the market average, so I personally don't see any point in trying. I imagine someone with only a little bit of disposable income is going to find those odds even less appealing. Best save yourself the time and follow the market with an index fund, unless you want to make it your hobby/second job.

A lot of people my age, myself included, were spooked by the recession and think of trading stocks as like gambling. But index funds made sense to me.
 
when the median household income is around 51k in the US, you have your answer as to why more people dont invest their "extraneous" income.

As for actually why, it takes a different mindset and different type of person to invest their extra cash. My wife and i invest in real estate and almost her entire family at different points have been like "why would you do that" "thats very risky" etc etc. And the least educated person is her mom who has a masters. Not to say that having an education makes you financially smart, the point is even among highly educated people doing "Something different" is viewed as a negative or risky thing.
 
Ucchedavāda;229656588 said:
Have you considered the possible effects of the Trump administration's position on net neutrality and what it could mean for companies like NetFlix?
Click to expand...

From Netflix Q416 letter to shareholders

Net Neutrality
Weakening of US net neutrality laws, should that occur, is unlikely to materially affect our domestic
margins or service quality because we are now popular enough with consumers to keep our
relationships with ISPs stable.
On a public policy basis, however, strong net neutrality is important to support innovation and smaller
firms.
Click to expand...
 
I have a few reasons, namely... while I have a whole lot of "expendable" income in the sense that I pay my required monthly bills and expenses and have money left over, I still have a fair amount of debt, almost all of it being student loan debt. Unless I got extremely lucky with an investment blowing up or something (which probably wouldn't happen), my money is much better spent being funneled into paying off those student loans faster.

As many have said, unless your student loans have an insanely low interest rate, it's better to pay off your debts first and then invest. You save money in the long run from being charged in interest, and (if you're out of school) it can look better on your credit report (don't quote me on this, credit reports are weird and I don't claim expert knowledge on it).

Next, it's important to have some kind of liquid cash... if something happens and you suddenly need money now, if you don't have any savings you'll be stuck in debt. I mean, investing is great and all, but in an emergency situation that stock may not (and likely will not) be looking good to sell at that moment. Right now I don't have any savings, more or less. I'm working on that.

(Note, some will argue that if done right you can pay those kind of emergencies with credit cards, but that's a whole debate I'm not trying to get into)

Finally, shit. Look, I've lived paycheck to paycheck for years, and really understand how soulcrushing it is to just work, and work, and work, and literally have nothing for myself come the end of the month. So fuck it, I'm going to treat myself to stuff sometimes. I'm gonna let myself buy some video games and art books and I trust myself not to spend too much. Should I have put that money away instead? Sure, but goddamn, I deserve rewards once every month or two :p

There's a shiton of reasons why people wouldn't invest, some good, some bad, but please OP don't act like investing is the be-all, end-all solution to everyone's fiscal needs. You're young, I get it, but just like how you got upset at someone for assuming your situation, don't assume the situations of everyone with expendable income and wonder "why doesn't everyone do this simple solution?" It's not as simple as you think.
 
I'm young and relatively healthy now.

I probably spend more frivolously than I should (we spend at least $100 on eating out a week, etc.), but my wife and I are also DINKs (double-income, no kids), we're still saving up multiple thousands of dollars each month (right now it's for a house, later it'll be to build up an insane liquid safety net, after it'll be investments), and I'm still definitely on track for my basic retirement goals.

I've seen how old age affects people in my family. I want to enjoy the things now that I'll not be as fit for later. And it's nice knowing how much flexibility I have to scale spending back rather than having to stretch spending out.
 
I am fortunate to actually have money left over after living expenses, and I basically invest every last dime I have, there's not much cash sitting in a regular bank account. 401k gets first priority, then Roth IRA, and then the extra goes into a taxable investment account as soon as enough cash accumulates in savings to make a purchase worthwhile.

No individual stocks, though. That's just silly. I exclusively do low expense, passively-managed index funds, with the vast majority of that being in funds covering the total stock market. Don't bet on any one or two companies, bet on the market as a whole.
 
Mathaou said:
EDIT:
Okay. So I may have sounded like I was gloating. I apologize for that. Instead of me asking, here's me telling:
The stock market is your friend. Invest any spare money you have into it and you'll be set.
If you're afraid to take risks, just choose index funds. Those are a very smart bet.
If you like to take risks and you have money that you don't necessarily need then put that into riskier stocks (ONLY AFTER COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF RESEARCH HAVE BEEN DONE))
Obviously it isn't for everyone. If you can't afford it that's fine. I'm saying that if you can go for it. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad.
If you can live below your means. I'm fairly lucky in that I live in a place where real estate is inexpensive. I also cook for myself and don't spend money that often aside from bills and the occasional large purchase or food.

Most people who have a job have expendable income. Even if it's just ~$100 you can invest that. Slowly grow your portfolio.
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What is this expendable income that you are talking about?
 
PKrockin said:
Probably not a good idea to encourage people who currently do not save to invest in individual stocks, and then add in "or index funds if you're risk-averse". The first suggestion should really be index funds because you don't need to know anything to be very successful. You can just dump some money in an S&P 500 index fund and enjoy a 9% average yearly return.

Even the best stock traders with tons of data and experience have a lot of difficulty beating the market average, so I personally don't see any point in trying. I imagine someone with only a little bit of disposable income is going to find those odds even less appealing. Best save yourself the time and follow the market with an index fund, unless you want to make it your hobby/second job.

A lot of people my age, myself included, were spooked by the recession and think of trading stocks as like gambling. But index funds made sense to me.
Click to expand...

Came in to say each and every word of this. And this has been the case for a while.
 
I mainly just put it into safe/index type funds and try and pack away as much as I can. I am fortunate enough to have good employment now but there were many years where I did not, so I have a lot of catching up to do. I basically live below my means and save everything I can in a desperate attempt to have some sort of sustainable savings built by the time I can't work anymore.

I have no advice or any insights to give as this isn't my area (I work with the guy at my bank to help invest the money). I don't know anything about your financial situation but if you really are 19 years old and are already investing that money with an eye on the long game, good on you. Most people never have the discipline and/or means to get that done, and if I had of been able to start at that age I'd be waaaaaay further ahead at this point in my life.

It all seemed so far away back then, but those years come up on you real fast, and it feels like an impossible task to try and catch up... its so cliche but if you can start early with even $15 a week, do it and never stop. Give up a few drinks with your friends after work or that lunch at Subway, and your future self will thank you ;)
 
Mathaou said:
EDIT:
The stock market is your friend. Invest any spare money you have into it and you'll be set.
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The stock market is your friend over long time horizons, but it can be decidedly not friendly over short and medium term. Investment vehicles should be matched with risk tolerance and intended use horizons.

Which is to say, if I want to put a roof on the house in a year, I'm not going to put the money in the stock market because I want it to be there. I may do a short term CD or just park it in a low interest savings fund, for example.

If you're afraid to take risks, just choose index funds. Those are a very smart bet.

If you like to take risks and you have money that you don't necessarily need then put that into riskier stocks (ONLY AFTER COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF RESEARCH HAVE BEEN DONE))

Obviously it isn't for everyone. If you can't afford it that's fine. I'm saying that if you can go for it. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad.
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Most people simply should not be investing in individual stocks, especially not in the medium to short term. It's a very high risk game. Index funds are the shiznit, though. For long term investing in particular.

If you can live below your means. I'm fairly lucky in that I live in a place where real estate is inexpensive. I also cook for myself and don't spend money that often aside from bills and the occasional large purchase or food.
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Living below your means is definitely good advice, but I think the question is whether you need to put all of that expendable income in the stock market. People have short, medium and long term wants and needs - the stock market is not a solution for all of them. Only a few, really.

Most people who have a job have expendable income. Even if it's just ~$100 you can invest that. Slowly grow your portfolio.
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Yeah, this is how I started retirement investing. My wife and I put $50 a month into our Roths through college. It was small but what we could do. Sadly we did not learn about index funds until a few years ago, but better late than never.
 
Mathaou said:
Anything that would severely impact my stocks would be seen waaaay ahead of time with enough time to sell so I'm fine.
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How long have you been investing?

You think you might see it, but you also might not. You could start to go down slowly and think 'business is still performing like it thought it would, don't know why people are selling' and then go lower, knowing, because you do your research, that the company will be fine. Could just slowly go down, since what you look for is different than what a 'market mover' looks for until it is below what you paid.

Then, something happens and you need your money know. So you have to sell at a loss, even though every thing still looks good with the company. Then your age investment just lost you money.

Better have extra money put up for emergencies before investing. Then you better make an exit strategy. Set a point at which you will sell.

Also, don't know if you have paid attention to the news, but Trump is moving pretty fast, who is to say that something won't happen that will spook investors out of Tesla (he doesn't seem to be a fan of green energy, and also doesn't seem like the type of person that likes AI driving), or Netflix, or Amazon.

Also, in regards to another post you made in here, the question was 'do you know if your knowledge isn't already built into the price of the stock' not asking if you pay attention to estimates. A stock like Netflix probably already has the expected growth of the 3Q Disney deal in the current price. So if it doesn't beat expectations, don't expect much movement up.
 
Mathaou said:
Anything that would severely impact my stocks would be seen waaaay ahead of time with enough time to sell so I'm fine.
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Again, I commend you for living frugally and saving money at a young age.

The quoted is dangerous thinking however. The price of the stock today reflects expectations about the future state of the market. It's incorrect to think you'll have time to sell before a negative shock hits the price of Netflix or any other company you're invested in.

Investing in only a handful of firms is the antithesis of diversifying to mitigate risk.
 
What exactly am I growing it for?

I live a comfortable life, and enjoy the things I can afford to purchase for my family, friends, and myself.

If the goal is to just build net worth to leave to my kids when I'm dead I have no interest. I have a pretty standard retirement plan that will (hopefully) give my some assurance that I can live just as comfortable a life after I stop working.
 
Is there a (modern) book out there that explains the basics of investing?

Because i'm sitting on some cash that's literally doing nothing for me right now. And I always appreciate opportunities to learn something new. I'm pretty risk-averse though.
 
Hoo-doo said:
Is there a (modern) book out there that explains the basics of investing?

Because i'm sitting on some cash that's literally doing nothing for me right now. And I always appreciate opportunities to learn something new. I'm pretty risk-averse though.
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https://smile.amazon.com/Bogleheads-Guide-Investing-Taylor-Larimore/dp/1118921283/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486151387&sr=1-1&keywords=bogleheads+guide+to+investing
Bogleheads' Guide To Investing tells you everything you need to know and in a very readable way.
 
Invest have the risk of loosing your money, and they just don't return much these days.

You get like 4% - 6% from your average investment fund. Savings accounts used to return that.
 
Hoo-doo said:
Is there a investing simulator out there that follows the actual stock market or something like that?

I mean, I have savings, i'd like to learn how to make my money work for me. But i'm going to need to start out with a trial run for suresies.
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Here's a good one

xPFeD2s.png


The basic idea is just start investing. If you have a job, take advantage of the retirement plan offered, particularly if there is a company match. Beyond that, and for dollars already in your possession that you're willing to essentially tie up until retirement, open an IRA with someone like Fidelity or Vanguard. For extra dollars that you would like to invest but would perhaps like to touch sometime before retirement, open a standard investment account, which you could also do with Fidelity or Vanguard but also with your bank or through one of the many online brokers.

In any of these accounts, put your money into either a target date fund close to your expected retirement year, or into a "Total Stock Market" fund, and then forget all about it. Don't touch it. When we go through dips like 2000-2003 or 2007-2009, don't even sweat it. Just leave it be and keep adding more.

Your investment simulator is the market as a whole. Don't get cute, don't try to time it, don't think you know which stocks or categories will do better than others.
 
While I have some money in the stock market, my overall "portfolio" is negative eighty thousand dollars in the form of a mortgage. I feel that as low as it is the interest on that would exceed the returns I'd get with any sort of market investment, so my expendable income goes towards paying that off well in advance. It means that I'll probably save about forty thousand dollars worth in interest payments overall.

Also I just preordered a Nintendo Switch. It's a sensible investment in fun. ;)
 
Mathaou said:
Nothing. I'm just a fan.



No they are very financially irresponsible. They were moreso an example of what not to do. I used my uncle as a mentor for this kind of thing. He's an accountant.
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Okay, so you had good and bad influences that helped shape your behavior. I didn't until I started to learn about it and had to change my behaviors from the opposite spectrum. Many people never get around to it at all. Education and reinforcing education is significant. Good on your uncle, and on you going the opposite direction.
 
I....I do both?

Sure I could put that extra expendable income into stocks, but why do that when I can buy games and NINTENDO SWIIIIITCH.
 
Mathaou said:
EDIT:
Okay. So I may have sounded like I was gloating. I apologize for that. Instead of me asking, here's me telling:
The stock market is your friend. Invest any spare money you have into it and you'll be set.
If you're afraid to take risks, just choose index funds. Those are a very smart bet.
If you like to take risks and you have money that you don't necessarily need then put that into riskier stocks (ONLY AFTER COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF RESEARCH HAVE BEEN DONE))
Obviously it isn't for everyone. If you can't afford it that's fine. I'm saying that if you can go for it. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad.
If you can live below your means. I'm fairly lucky in that I live in a place where real estate is inexpensive. I also cook for myself and don't spend money that often aside from bills and the occasional large purchase or food.

Most people who have a job have expendable income. Even if it's just ~$100 you can invest that. Slowly grow your portfolio.
Click to expand...

People like to enjoy life. Some people get enjoyment out of "saving" for some future where they'll really enjoy life, or whatever. Others want their Occulus Rift now.

Me, I don't really care that you're having a slow month over at Northwestern Mutual.
 
I haven't got the time to properly invest, so I'd be relying on someone else doing the hard work, meaning my returns would be minimal, especially when you deduct tax.

The best investment for me is to plough any spare cash into repaying our mortgage. Currently we pay back about 200% of our monthly repayments.
 
nekkid said:
I haven't got the time to properly invest, so I'd be relying on someone else doing the hard work, meaning my returns would be minimal.

The best investment for me is to plough any spare cash into repaying our mortgage. Currently we pay back about 200% of our monthly repayments.
Click to expand...

That's a misconception, you can definitely achieve 6%+ annual returns after fees. I do agree pay that mortgage off asap, but don't be afraid to let an adviser handle your cash, you just gotta find someone you can trust.
 
I'm using my disposable income to make advance payments on my mortgage. I'm either coming out ahead or it's a wash when it comes to percentages. Mind you, I am still putting money into my 401k, but I'm putting in enough for the matching that my company provides. Once my mortgage is payed off, I'll see how close I can get to the 15% max and maxxing out my Roth as well.
 
KrellRell said:
That's a misconception, you can definitely achieve 6%+ annual returns after fees. I do agree pay that mortgage off asap, but don't be afraid to let an adviser handle your cash, you just gotta find someone you can trust.
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6% would be nice, but any returns would then be taxed by 40%, so I'd be closer to seeing 3.5% in my pocket.

Work do a share matching scheme where for every 3 shares in the company (a large, stable multinational) you buy and hold for 3 years they give you an extra share. It sounds good, but the same thing applies - once tax is considered overpaying the shit out of our mortgage is as good a use of my money.
 
This is the first time in a while Ill have expendable income, but I don't really want to invest it at all with our current administration tbh. I doubt anything bad will happen to the markets, but im not taking that risk at this moment
 
Randolph Freelander said:
Here's a good one

xPFeD2s.png


The basic idea is just start investing. If you have a job, take advantage of the retirement plan offered, particularly if there is a company match. Beyond that, and for dollars already in your possession that you're willing to essentially tie up until retirement, open an IRA with someone like Fidelity or Vanguard. For extra dollars that you would like to invest but would perhaps like to touch sometime before retirement, open a standard investment account, which you could also do with Fidelity or Vanguard but also with your bank or through one of the many online brokers.

In any of these accounts, put your money into either a target date fund close to your expected retirement year, or into a "Total Stock Market" fund, and then forget all about it. Don't touch it. When we go through dips like 2000-2003 or 2007-2009, don't even sweat it. Just leave it be and keep adding more.

Your investment simulator is the market as a whole. Don't get cute, don't try to time it, don't think you know which stocks or categories will do better than others.
Click to expand...

What would your advice have been for people whose expected retirement year was 2000 - 2003, or 2007 - 2009?
 
Zefah said:
What would your advice have been for people whose expected retirement year was 2000 - 2003, or 2007 - 2009?
Click to expand...

To have been in a target date fund for 2000, 2005, or 2010, as appropriate, and thereby have been shielded from the brunt of stock market losses, and to remain in said funds (minus withdrawals for living expenses) as those already lessened losses were recovered.
 
GameplayWhore said:
While I have some money in the stock market, my overall "portfolio" is negative eighty thousand dollars in the form of a mortgage. I feel that as low as it is the interest on that would exceed the returns I'd get with any sort of market investment, so my expendable income goes towards paying that off well in advance. It means that I'll probably save about forty thousand dollars worth in interest payments overall.

Also I just preordered a Nintendo Switch. It's a sensible investment in fun. ;)
Click to expand...

Not that I disagree with paying down your mortgage, but you can easily make better returns in the right index fund or ETF that would exceed your mortgage interest rate.

Zefah said:
What would your advice have been for people whose expected retirement year was 2000 - 2003, or 2007 - 2009?
Click to expand...

Target date funds shield you from stock market downturns by moving your money increasingly into bonds as your retirement approaches.
 
Anyone here do non-retirement investments? Like buying/selling individual stocks? I need to get back to doing that. I currently have everything in index funds for non-retirement investing. I want to venture outside of that.
 
nekkid said:
6% would be nice, but any returns would then be taxed by 40%, so I'd be closer to seeing 3.5% in my pocket.
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I mean if you're in the 39.5% tax bracket at ~$415,000/year taxable income and pull your money out less than a year after investing, sure, it will be taxed at 39.5%. Keep your money in for a year or more and it will be only taxed at the long-term capital gains tax rate--20% for the 39.5% income tax bracket. (15% for the 25-35% income tax bracket, 0% for 10-15% bracket.) Or do the smart thing and open a Roth IRA so your withdrawals in retirement are not taxed at all.

I am not a tax lawyer etc.

Zefah said:
What would your advice have been for people whose expected retirement year was 2000 - 2003, or 2007 - 2009?
Click to expand...
Shift your investments from mostly stocks to mostly bonds as you near retirement.
 
If you have expendable income and little/no student debt (absolutely not an automatic condition), there isn't any excuse. Put together a simple 4-6 low-expense ETF IRA or Roth IRA portfolio (or even better, 401(k) or Roth 401(k) if you workplace offers it), automatically contribute to it each month, and rebalance a couple times a year.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_portfolios
 
PKrockin said:
I mean if you're in the 39.5% tax bracket at ~$415,000/year taxable income and pull your money out less than a year after investing, sure. Keep your money in for a year or more and it will be only taxed at 20%. Or do the smart thing and open a Roth IRA so your withdrawals in retirement are not taxed at all.

I am not a tax lawyer etc.
Click to expand...

I'm from the UK, I'm not quite that high an earner...
 
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