Support NeoGAF

[Deleted member 17706]

Haha what? It is their job to provide content. It is NOT their job to even inform. Sure they'll so better if they do inform and do so honestly, but unless you are paying for some sort of subscription fee they literally owe you nothing. Don't act like they owe you something because you simply gave them a pageview.

Whatever. That's the expectation whether you like it or not. If you're not going to provide information, people will go elsewhere. Maybe "owe" isn't the right word, but the expectation to inform or fuck off is there.

 

[Chinner]

 

[iammeiam]

review culture in videogames is awful anyway. it's just a first past the post situation with no regard for consumers and all regard for hits and fanboy politics or PR job hunting. i don't understand why anyone thinks its acceptable for reviews to announce every game to be the be all and end all while restraining criticism for a 1 month then it become suddenly acceptable to do so.

'this game is amazing! it's jesus in a video game! john goodman!!'

1 month later (after the game has been bought by consumers)

'actually this game is okay, here are faults x y and z'

Look at a GAF review thread any time a title with adequate hype cops a review below an 8 (below a 9 in the case of the mega-hyped.) there are always people who find it downright unacceptable if a reviewer doesn't enjoy a game (that the poster has yet to actually play) to the extent a poster believes they should.

There are, like, six billion things wrong with the way video game reviews work, and score inflation/frequent lack of voices not embracing the hype is definitely up there, but there's a large contingent of gamers that only want reviews that embrace the hype. They don't want to hear bad things about the game they're pre loving, and so hype-focused reviews are a product with a definite audience and so it's easy to imagine a scenario in which reviewers who do that will have an easier time finding an audience than those that don't.

 

[kayos90]

That's not necessarily true. There are tons of people who write things of worth that people never read.

Also, when your livelihood depends on people viewing your work, it's understandable to want to put your work out under the most desirable conditions to get those views.

I don't think people should be compromising themselves to get those views, but you should be able to understand why they might be okay with doing something a bit inconvenient if it ends up helping them out in the end.

I agree completely. I'm seeing multiple posts in this thread coming into conflict because people can't simply recognize and understand the fact that we're comparing idealistic situations and the realistic situation that is in front of us. I'm sure everyone wants the idealistic situation. Doesn't necessarily mean complaining about how it's not means it'll make it better.

 

[Chinner]

 

[RE_Player]

Was wondering when someone would bust this out. Took longer than expected.

 

[Metfanant]

Waiting until after release is a death sentence for a game review. Less views, less ad views, less income. Simple as that. It's not profitable to have an integrity.

But that's not the issue at hand...if the press wants cry that they think review events are shady...and compromise their reviews...well then grow a pair and stand up for yourself...

 

[Replicant]

Also, when your livelihood depends on people viewing your work, it's understandable to want to put your work out under the most desirable conditions to get those views.

I don't think people should be compromising themselves to get those views, but you should be able to understand why they might be okay with doing something a bit inconvenient if it ends up helping them out in the end.

Again, no one forced them to play speed olympic with their reviews. Especially not when the result is "MASS EFFECT 3 - 10/10 WITH DEWRITOS!". I'd rather wait for reviews that actually tell the game for what it is. Besides, if I care that much about reviews, I wouldn't be pre-ordering games in the first place.

I also don't have problem with these 'journalists' going to a special event to review games providing that they stated that they review the games under certain condition. But it's frankly laughable for them to whine about how they're not getting the premium treatment (their own console/game) to review the game on time. It's like they are asking to be under the publishers' thumb even more.

 

[wowlace]

Gaming journalists = narcissists

 

[viveks86]

somebody said it's next week

Yeah Gies said that. My question is, how are they doing it? Review event or is MS shipping retail kits in advance?

 

[Chinner]

Was wondering when someone would bust this out. Took longer than expected.

sorry, i should have posted this version

 

[machinecaliber]

somebody said it's next week

This week perhaps now that it's Saturday, well here on the west coast still rather recently. That's the correct vernacular isn't since Friday's done?

 

[Bboy AJ]

We all know integrity and honesty is something that's lacking with professional video game reviewers. So tell me why there's been a dearth of YouTube reviewers we discuss. Those guys can buy their own games, aren't beholden to publishers, and can discuss a game freely and competently. Yet we don't give them any attention. If timing of a review doesn't matter, why don't we pay attention to these guys?

 

[Darkwaknight]

This is pretty obvious that both Companies are so near the knuckle for launch that All launch games will be reviewed in these events.

This includes a UBISOFT day for AC4, Activision for COD and Dice/EA for BF4.
For all reasons we are already know X1 games will have no review or feed outside MS direct control (BF4 USA vs Europe) or the publishers.

I don't see this continuing past launch (How can it really) but I see this as all the reviewers that live on 2 weeks before launch Videos/re(pre)views with no real journalistic intent or criticism crying and suffering from the HUGE lack of hits and revenue stream that would come from the Hunger for Next gen stuff.

This is why I always have and do respect JOURNALIST's like Marcus Beer as he has and had the integrity to say things as they are and be honest enough when he thinks its wrong (see DRM etc).

This just all seems like a storm and a teacup and a loss of revenue, played out on a medium they can (Social) to not really say anything and just skirt around the issue, alot like reviews in most places now..PR fluff with no real intent or even content, I have lost track of the amount of reviews I have read and had to check there where not just previews.

Come December this will be nothing at all, the Youtube thing is another issue entirely, as if they can no longer use it for Free Hosting how can these guys hit their audience!??!

 

[Mushroomer25]

But that's not the issue at hand...if the press wants cry that they think review events are shady...and compromise their reviews...well then grow a pair and stand up for yourself...

When "growing a pair" involves voluntarily crippling your main source of income, it becomes less pretty.
Also, game journalists are traditionally not idiots. Even if they are going to review events, they might work to take that into consideration within the review. If they're consciously aware of potential bias caused by setting, it negates said bias.

 

[jschreier]

But that's not the issue at hand...if the press wants cry that they think review events are shady...and compromise their reviews...well then grow a pair and stand up for yourself...

Maybe if review events were more common, this would be a conversation worth having. They're not, really. A couple of big games a year, maybe - mostly multiplayer shooters - and often review copies are sent out in addition to the events.

This conversation, BTW, is predicated on the idea that the PS4 "review event" involves journalists sitting in a room and playing PS4s for X amount of time, when for all we know it might be nothing like that. Maybe it's just an event for Sony to hand out PS4s to reviewers.

Just some context, here, before everyone goes jumping to conclusions.

 

[disastermouse]

Haha what? It is their job to provide content. It is NOT their job to even inform. Sure they'll so better if they do inform and do so honestly, but unless you are paying for some sort of subscription fee they literally owe you nothing. Don't act like they owe you something because you simply gave them a pageview.

I'm trying to decide where on the 'idiocy/cynicism' scale this comment belongs. They do owe someone, right? As in, they literally owe someone for their paychecks. Now, if you're going to argue they owe it to advertisers - that's a pretty screwed up point of view, since advertisers only pay them because people watch them. Whether the monetization is direct or indirect, it still all relies on the audience.

 

[hamchan]

We all know integrity and honesty is something that's lacking with professional video game reviewers. So tell me why there's been a dearth of YouTube reviewers we discuss. Those guys can buy their own games, aren't beholden to publishers, and can discuss a game freely and competently. Yet we don't give them any attention. If timing of a review doesn't matter, why don't we pay attention to these guys?

Angry Joy is pretty popular around here after his stance on the Xbone DRM issue. His reviews are done differently from the norm too, quite funny and you can tell he spends a lot of time on the game before putting a review out.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Maybe if review events were more common, this would be a conversation worth having. They're not, really. A couple of big games a year, maybe - mostly multiplayer shooters - and often review copies are sent out in addition to the events.

This conversation, BTW, is predicated on the idea that the PS4 "review event" involves journalists sitting in a room and playing PS4s for X amount of time, when for all we know it might be nothing like that. Maybe it's just an event for Sony to hand out PS4s to reviewers.

Just some context, here, before everyone goes jumping to conclusions.

Is it your understanding that the review event for PS4 is what has Sessler all hot and bothered? Because I think that's what is confusing. You are downplaying the review event (and I understand why) but why would that cause such a reaction from him? It's bizarre.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Am I just being dense here? Why dont they just not go, tell Sony its not on and make it clear on their websites/blogs/Youtube channels why?

Seems to me they hold the cards here but are annoyed they arent getting their usual freebies. If it affects your livelihood, take a collective stance. Even if one or two break ranks, you have made a big enough statement to gamers and publishers alike.

Honestly, all this shows is these gaming "journalists" have no faith in having a loyal and faithful readership that seek them out to see what THEY have to say about a particular issue, console or game.

If all that matters is who writes first, the whole lot of them are disposable and the equivalent of written fast food.

 

[JDSN]

I think you are assuming every journalist has a choice. But just about everyone answers to somebody.

They ultimately answer to their readers.

 

[machinecaliber]

Yeah Gies said that. My question is, how are they doing it? Review event or is MS shipping retail kits in advance?

Press be seeing X1 games this week, so maybe?

 

[Bboy AJ]

Angry Joy is pretty popular around here after his stance on the Xbone DRM issue. His reviews are done differently from the norm too, quite funny.

Do we have any more of these guys? Let's make a thread on GAF supporting these indie reviewers. If you guys hate how the mainstream video game press works, the tech is in place to change everything.

 

[Bronetta]

Maybe someone on GAF said something really mean to Sessler and he decided to take his ball and go home, similar to Phil Fish.

GAF > Internet > GAF

 

[Mushroomer25]

They ultimately answer to their readers.

They answer to the guy writing the paychecks.

 

[Azull]

Maybe if review events were more common, this would be a conversation worth having. They're not, really. A couple of big games a year, maybe - mostly multiplayer shooters - and often review copies are sent out in addition to the events.

This conversation, BTW, is predicated on the idea that the PS4 "review event" involves journalists sitting in a room and playing PS4s for X amount of time, when for all we know it might be nothing like that. Maybe it's just an event for Sony to hand out PS4s to reviewers.

Just some context, here, before everyone goes jumping to conclusions.

Hey J I wanted to hear your opinion on all of what's been going on with sessler/gies/dent/marcus meltdown on Twitter. I don't expect you to reply but I would be interested on your thoughts tbh.

 

[jschreier]

Is it your understanding that the review event for PS4 is what has Sessler all hot and bothered? Because I think that's what is confusing. You are downplaying the review event (and I understand why) but why would that cause such a reaction from him? It's bizarre.

Look at his tweets:

My concerns are about my livelihood being dramatically affected by corporate decisions. This will have a nominal effect on you as a consumer

This only affects myself and a handful of my colleagues who practice a particular form of coverage of the industry.

I'm sorry if I'm being annoying but I'm having to consider new professional avenues, it's that serious. I'm still human and scared..

Do you really think he'd be saying all that about one PS4 review event?

 

[rdrr gnr]

Do we have any more of these guys? Let's make a thread on GAF supporting these indie reviewers. If you guys hate how the mainstream video game press works, the tech is in place to change everything.

Isn't Joe also a MS fanboy?

 

[Replicant]

This is pretty obvious that both Companies are so near the knuckle for launch that All launch games will be reviewed in these events.

This includes a UBISOFT day for AC4, Activision for COD and Dice/EA for BF4.
For all reasons we are already know X1 games will have no review or feed outside MS direct control (BF4 USA vs Europe) or the publishers.

I don't see this continuing past launch (How can it really) but I see this as all the reviewers that live on 2 weeks before launch Videos/re(pre)views with no real journalistic intent or criticism crying and suffering from the HUGE lack of hits and revenue stream that would come from the Hunger for Next gen stuff.

This is why I always have and do respect JOURNALIST's like Marcus Beer as he has and had the integrity to say things as they are and be honest enough when he thinks its wrong (see DRM etc).

This just all seems like a storm and a teacup and a loss of revenue, played out on a medium they can (Social) to not really say anything and just skirt around the issue, alot like reviews in most places now..PR fluff with no real intent or even content, I have lost track of the amount of reviews I have read and had to check there where not just previews.

Come December this will be nothing at all, the Youtube thing is another issue entirely, as if they can no longer use it for Free Hosting how can these guys hit their audience!??!

The bolded finally clarified to me what this is all about. IF they have their own review copy + hardware, they can play speed olympic and post their review first before everyone else (depending on how fast they can write stuff) and thus, winning the internet and clicks. But now they all have to wait until a certain date. And God forbid they have lesser time to play speed olympic.

 

[Jobbs]

Writing words about things in a manner which corporations (the very ones you are presumed to be reporting on) find pleasing and according to their terms is a thing. I'm not going to render a judgement on what this thing is or whether it's good or bad, but it's not journalism. so I think we need a new word for it.

Honestly, I put less and less credence in reviews these days. If I truly stop relying on what's "supposed" to be good I find there are some nice experiences to be had that I'd otherwise have missed. I'm not entirely separated from checking reviews and being influenced by those shining numbers, but I'm making progress.

 

[toddhunter]

Do you really think he'd be saying all that about one PS4 review event?

Pretty much yes.

 

[Scofield94941]

Maybe someone on GAF said something really mean to Sessler and he decided to take his ball and go home, similar to Phil Fish.

GAF > Internet > GAF

ya before sess exploded someone said he was paid by microsoft

 

[Frumix]

I've read this whole thread and I still don't know what is happening.

 

[G-Fex]

sorry, i should have posted this version

Chinner you're a gem

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

As for rev3games I think the issue is they are the only outlet that do "Sponsorships" which as a consumer are fucking irritating and probably cross the line for publishers.

So no, cant say im all that fussed.

 

[stonesak]

Look at his tweets:



Do you really think he'd be saying all that about one PS4 review event?

No, but it seems like something pushed him over the edge to make those tweets. And as a high profile journalist, if you make statements such as those, it's going to make people wonder "what the hell's going on". Saying, "it's industry stuff, doesn't effect you", yeah something that would make someone like Adam Sessler leave the industry does kind of effect us, even if not directly.

 

[publicpwnerer]

Isn't Joe also a MS fanboy?

He kind of indirectly embarrassed Major Nelson and put it up for all to see (Not to mention, openly criticising Microsoft's "policies". Enjoying a specific product doesn't make you beholden to a corporation.

 

[Footos22]

Prob already posted but penello Twitter says today's internet explosion is nothing to do with Xbox.

 

[Dead Man]

See Adam, this is the type of passion we needed from you when a different console manufacturer was imposing Draconian DRM measures against consumers. Remember when you completely passed the buck the moment gamers needed you the most?

Self-interest rules the day once again.

Indeed. Not a great moment for him, or his mates on twitter.

if its only for pre launch games then shit is overreacting big time, but if its for the entire gen, every game being reviewed like this, then its fucked up and I cant but agree with sesslers view.

I can't see this being the norm on an ongoing basis, not even Sony would be that daft, right?

 

[Kingbrave]

Haha what? It is their job to provide content. It is NOT their job to even inform. Sure they'll so better if they do inform and do so honestly, but unless you are paying for some sort of subscription fee they literally owe you nothing. Don't act like they owe you something because you simply gave them a pageview.

You have to kidding me. It's absolutely a journalists job to inform. It's silly to think otherwise.

 

[stonesak]

Prob already posted but penello Twitter says today's internet explosion is nothing to do with Xbox.

The original shitstorm has a lot to do with Xbox.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

Sorry if mentioed before but we have a GAF insider how knows more:

This is a smart move. I'll keep my reasons to my self, mostly because they are snarky, but
I think it'll only take till January to see why.

From the Max left rev3games topic.

I guess will know by January.

Still think its very strange, because before Adam got to rev3games it was doing like OK in term of viewer ship.
But now with Adam its skyrocketed and really is doing very well, youtube subscriptions are up few 100%.

 

[Sophia]

You have to kidding me. It's absolutely a journalists job to inform. It's silly to think otherwise.

Yup. It's the very description of a journalist even. Someone who collects, writes, and distributes news and information.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Am I just being dense here? Why dont they just not go, tell Sony its not on and make it clear on their websites/blogs/Youtube channels why?

.

Because if that kind of integrity mattered to a vast majority of the people who consume video game media, Gamespot would have been bankrupted by the Gerstmann scandal. Sadly most people don't care.

 

[Canis lupus]

I have a feeling he's being a drama queen like he normally is.

Might be. When someone goes on twitter looking for sympathy and what sounds like he/she's making a mountain out of a molehill, the alarm bells ring.

Happens far too much in this industry.

 

[disastermouse]

Prob already posted but penello Twitter says today's internet explosion is nothing to do with Xbox.

He's probably overjoyed that finally there's an video gaming internet shitstorm that has nothing to do with Microsoft. I mean, it had to happen eventually, right?

 

[Lambda Pie]

oh no, Sessler (?) is leaving the industry?

no problem, these guys are hiring:

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers.html

 

[Mushroomer25]

Am I just being dense here? Why dont they just not go, tell Sony its not on and make it clear on their websites/blogs/Youtube channels why?

Because somebody else will go, and have an exclusive review. Unless every major review outlet got together, and firmly agreed to boycott these events - they'll continue. The fear of losing out is too great.

 

[IonicSnake]

Prob already posted but penello Twitter says today's internet explosion is nothing to do with Xbox.

From what I gather it seems to be the PS4 launch/review event the journos are so upset about.

 

[G-Fex]

oh no, Sessler (?) is leaving the industry?

no problem, these guys are hiring:

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers.html

then he'll tweet vague hints about why he may have to stop preparing egg mcmuffins