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[Jarate]

No, that is not what I am asking.

Why did you decide to go in a relationship with her? You can love her perfectly well and spend time with her perfectly well without a relationship.

But for most people, being exclusive is a huge part of it. Having the intimacy and the love of your partner for yourself. Besides that, it may also be to make it clear that you expect to be able to rely on them.

I don't think there are a whole lot of reasons to get into a relationship with someone. But in the cases of many, many couples cheating goes directly against the main agreement of a relationship. Essentially rendering the entire relationship worthless and completely disrespected by the other party.

I decided to go into a relationship because I loved my GF enough to be in that relationship. I'd rather not get into specifics as too why im in my relationship because I dont really feel comfortable talking about very personal things, but in general its because me and my partner both love each other.

And once again, i'd like to point out that I have never cheatd on my partner and never will cheat on her since she would be devstated by it. But her reasoning was based off of her own jealousy being extreme, and really that's not much a deal breaker for me when im obviously in love with the person

 

[Rembrandt]

Ive said this many times, and I'll say it again

im not trying to imply as if cheating is a good thing, or morally it's somehow not bad in the least. Yes there is a breach of trust, yes all these things exist, im not denying any of those things

But why is one lie fine, and the other not? If we decided that in our relationship that no one would smoke, and my GF decided to start smoking, is that the same level as cheating? It's the same base of loosing trust, and sure it would hurt the relationship, but should it be vilified as much as cheating would?

Maybe I won't ever get it, and there has been some really good responses that I shouldve responded too, but I didnt have any further questions too so I didn't.

Do you treat literally everything the same? I might be able to see why this is a valid question, but you seem to be arguing it in a way that makes me think you don't really understand people.

 

[FriedConsole]

Sure if we are going all reductionist: Why do people even have sex when you can masturbate? Seems like like cheating is a waste of time when masturbating is easier.

 

[Jarate]

"bad things happened because of societal norms, so fuck any of the (many) good things about them."

Im not trying to imply that at all, but saying something is a societal norm doesnt really have any basis on morality.

Sure if we are going all reductionist: Why do people even have sex when you can masturbate? Seems like like cheating is a waste of time when masturbating is easier.

Sex feels way better that masturbation

 

[-duskdoll-]

It's in general a bad thing to do, too cheat just like a lot of the stuff that happens in relationships aren't inherently good or netural. But why does cheating get villified in comparison to other things is the discussion

Ok, so imagine you're going to a movie theater. You buy a large popcorn with extra butter, take a seat and wait for the movie to start. But when the movie starts you realize it's an entirely different film, not only that but the popcorn you bought has no butter in it!! :O Will you be more upset that you paid for an entirely different movie or that your popcorn wasn't buttered?

This is probably a bad example but i honestly don't know how to explain this better. The problem here is that you know that cheating is wrong but you don't understand why, or why it's worse than lying about how your gf looks in a dress. Because that's what monogamous relationships are based on, exclusivity, there is no way around it and no need to get philosophical about it. It's the foundation of the relationship plain and simple.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Please stop with the personal attacks, they dont add anything to the mix, and i didnt read your previous post in time when I made that response, so please calm down



I dont feel there's a connection between having sex and somehow being emotionally attached to people. People have sex for many different reasons beyond emotions



That's totes mcgotes the reason brother, you're right on target! You figured it out!

You're not really adding anything to the mix either. You're ignoring peoples answers to your questions and going off on tangets that basically amount to nothing. I can't think of one thing you've posted so far in this thread that makes any sense.

And you missing my post might be relevant if multiple people hadn't posted the exact same thing answering your question multiple times over in this thread by now. Which you also ignored.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Good luck settling down at any point in the near future OP.

 

[Jarate]

Good luck settling down at any point in the near future OP.

Good luck to you as well!

 

[Prophet Steve]

I decided to go into a relationship because I loved my GF enough to be in that relationship. I'd rather not get into specifics as too why im in my relationship because I dont really feel comfortable talking about very personal things, but in general its because me and my partner both love each other.

And once again, i'd like to point out that I have never cheatd on my partner and never will cheat on her since she would be devstated by it. But her reasoning was based off of her own jealousy being extreme, and really that's not much a deal breaker for me when im obviously in love with the person

As I said, you can still love someone outside of a relationship.

What is the difference between the two of you being in a relationship and outside of one? What do you expect from your partner when you are in a relationship that you would not expect from them outside of one?

I have made no judgement about you possibly having cheated. However, since you mentioned that she would be devastated by it:

Do you think one of the reasons she is in a relationship with you, because part of the agreement is that you won't sleep with anyone else?

If so, many others feel the same way and it also makes it easier to imagine why people hate cheating so much more than other lies. Those other lies are not a direct violation of the agreement of a relationship.

 

[Jarate]

Ok, so imagine you're going to a movie theater. You buy a large popcorn with extra butter, take a seat and wait for the movie to start. But when the movie starts you realize it's an entirely different film, not only that but the popcorn you bought has no butter in it!! :O Will you be more upset that you paid for an entirely different movie or that your popcorn wasn't buttered?

This is probably a bad example but i honestly don't know how to explain this better. The problem here is that you know that cheating is wrong but you don't understand why, or why it's worse than lying about how your gf looks in a dress. Because that's what monogamous relationships are based on, exclusivity, there is no way around it and no need to get philosophical about it. It's the foundation of the relationship plain and simple.

I understand why it's worse then those other examples, im just trying to comprehend as too why it's labeled by many to be one of the worst things you can do in a relationship. Maybe it's something I wont ever get.

 

[……forgetit]

I dont feel there's a connection between having sex and somehow being emotionally attached to people. People have sex for many different reasons beyond emotions

Stop right there, here is your answer. Most people do. That's it, full stop, you have your answer. Many, maybe most, see sex and emotions as connected

 

[Poltergust]

I understand why it's worse then those other examples, im just trying to comprehend as too why it's labeled by many to be one of the worst things you can do in a relationship. Maybe it's something I wont ever get.

Can you think of things that are worse?

Other than illegal things, of course.

 

[raphier]

Please stop with the personal attacks, they dont add anything to the mix, and i didnt read your previous post in time when I made that response, so please calm down



I dont feel there's a connection between having sex and somehow being emotionally attached to people. People have sex for many different reasons beyond emotions



That's totes mcgotes the reason brother, you're right on target! You figured it out!

well the other option is that you want to keep your emotional life separate from your sexual life

 

[Goreomedy]

EDIT: and ive read a lot of really good posts in this board that I havent responded too, but those posts answered questions in much better ways then the ones that I have responded too.

Maybe I should reward those by responding to them, but if I have no further questions, what should I respond with

"If I acknowledged the answers that answer my question, then the discussion would be over."

What the fuck...

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Sorting through the replies, I'm seeing that people here on both sides are very quick to label. "What, are you swinger?" with heavily implied derision. "Open relationships can be better if you both agree on it". And so on.

In reality, the issue is not a binary choice between "open" and "monogomous". Much like "gay" and "straight" are two arbitrary points on a spectrum, different people are comfortable with different levels of commitment. I've met couples that are monogomous 99% of the time, but have an understanding that if the "right" situation comes up with another person, then the they can go for it as long as there's honesty. So that adds up to maybe an occasional dalliance every 3-4 years. Would you call them "crazy swingers"? Or a "committed couple"?

Here's how I see it. Monogomy is a learned, not natural behavior for most men (and some women). It takes a certain amount of life experience, maturity, and most importantly needs to fit the individual. And if it does, then great! But that process and outcome should not be considered the "default" or "correct" outcome for all or even most relationships. If it's not a good fit for a given person and if they're honest about it, then their partner should either leave them or embrace that behavior. And that doesn't make you a "crazy swinger with robes and patchouli". It makes you an empathetic human being who cares about what's best for others.

 

[Walpurgis]

Social Norms existed for an incredibly long time to exlcude gays and blacks and literally hurt them.

The social norms argument really holds no barometer to me considering society itself is pretty silly with a lot of things

EDIT: and ive read a lot of really good posts in this board that I havent responded too, but those posts answered questions in much better ways then the ones that I have responded too.

Maybe I should reward those by responding to them, but if I have no further questions, what should I respond with

You are talking about social norms in America. We are talking about social norms of mankind. Another social norm of mankind is to hug/kiss people that you love, to punish criminals, to cooperate for the greater good, etc. If you want to be polygamous, find people who want that too. Please don't go behind someone's back and selfishly seek pleasure on your own. It is uncivilised.

 

[hellmonkey]

Because we're humans and aren't logical beings, that's it. If we were all purely logical relationships wouldn't exist to begin with.

There plenty of logical reason to be in a relationship.

-Courting sucks, not just for humans. Animals fight, rather violently at times, for mates.
-You like the characteristics of your mate and want to see them passed to your children.
-Its not feasible to support offspring from numerous mates (this doesn't really apply to lower mammals)
-The longer you are with someone, the better you know them, and the better you are able to take care of them physically, emotionally, and mentally.

Theres plenty of other reason. For most humans, theres more to life than just fucking. I gawk at plenty of women (she does too, no harm in looking), but if I was to actually have the opportunity to be with another woman, I don't think I could do it, even with my wife's permission AND participation.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Cheating is for punks. I've never cheated or been cheated on. Mutual respect and trust is an essential foundation of a relationship.

No time for lames who cheat.

Wanna fuck around? Stay single.

 

[oo7]

TO OP

Not sure if serious tbh.

 

[ThusZarathustra]

"If I acknowledged the answers that answer my question, then the discussion would be over."

What the fuck...

it's very telling

 

[Jarate]

As I said, you can still love someone outside of a relationship.

What is the difference between the two of you being in a relationship and outside of one? What do you expect from your partner when you are in a relationship that you would not expect from them outside of one?

I have made no judgement about you possibly having cheated. However, since you mentioned that she would be devastated by it:

Do you think one of the reasons she is in a relationship with you, because part of the agreement is that you won't sleep with anyone else?

If so, many others feel the same way and it also makes it easier to imagine why people hate cheating so much more than other lies. Those other lies are not a direct violation of the agreement of a relationship.

Once again, the love that me and my partner share is something that im going to have a hard time describing. I am not a wordsmith, and people throughout the ages have been wondering why that special feeling you get with someone specific exists and what it is.

And while she has those feelings, those are based on her own jealousy, which is in general not a good feeling to have. Maybe if we were different people that would be a deal breaker, but it's not too me.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

Here's a different question: If people are just doing it for the sex, why is there a need to go to other people for it?

Get the answer to that and you have the answer for why cheating is such an emotional issue. The whole act of cheating carries an implication that your partner either isn't good enough or that they don't satisfy you. Hence jealousy and feelings of insecurity.

 

[Jarate]

You are talking about social norms in America. We are talking about social norms of mankind. Another social norm of mankind is to hug/kiss people that you love, to punish criminals, to cooperate for the greater good, etc. If you want to be polygamous, find people who want that too. Please don't go behind someone's back and selfishly seek pleasure on your own. It is uncivilised.

Gays are treated worse in practically every single culture, just like in other cultures they have different ideas of relationships beyond just monogamy.

 

[Nafai1123]

I understand why it's worse then those other examples, im just trying to comprehend as too why it's labeled by many to be one of the worst things you can do in a relationship. Maybe it's something I wont ever get.

It's not that difficult to understand. A monogamous relationship is based around monogamy. Therefore, by cheating, you are not only lying and being dishonest, but you are lying and being dishonest about the very foundation of the relationship. It's one of the worst things you can do because you are quite literally destroying the very foundation of the relationship.

 

[ReAxion]

Sorting through the replies, I'm seeing that people here on both sides are very quick to label. "What, are you swinger?" with heavily implied derision. "Open relationships can be better if you both agree on it". And so on.

In reality, the issue is not a binary choice between "open" and "monogomous". Much like "gay" and "straight" are two arbitrary points on a spectrum, different people are comfortable with different levels of commitment. I've met couples that are monogomous 99% of the time, but have an understanding that if the "right" situation comes up with another person, then the they can go for it as long as there's honesty. So that adds up to maybe an occasional dalliance every 3-4 years. Would you call them "crazy swingers"? Or a "committed couple"?

Here's how I see it. Monogomy is a learned, not natural behavior for most men (and some women). It takes a certain amount of life experience, maturity, and most importantly needs to fit the individual. And if it does, then great! But that process and outcome should not be considered the "default" or "correct" outcome for all or even most relationships. If it's not a good fit for a given person and if they're honest about it, then their partner should either leave them or embrace that behavior. And that doesn't make you a "crazy swinger with robes and patchouli". It makes you an empathetic human being who cares about what's best for others.

I like this post.

 

[Jarate]

"If I acknowledged the answers that answer my question, then the discussion would be over."

What the fuck...

No, this is a philosophical discussion of an idea known as cheating

there are people that have given their ideas as too why it exists in very well done ways. I dont need to respond to those because beyond those things it's simply a matter of preference of the situation.

Many questions can have 2 completely relevant answers that contradict each other.

 

[……forgetit]

There plenty of logical reason to be in a relationship.

-Courting sucks, not just for humans. Animals fight, rather violently at times, for mates.
-You like the characteristics of your mate and want to see them passed to your children.
-Its not feasible to support offspring from numerous mates (this doesn't really apply to lower mammals)
-The longer you are with someone, the better you know them, and the better you are able to take care of them physically, emotionally, and mentally.

Theres plenty of other reason. For most humans, theres more to life than just fucking. I gawk at plenty of women (she does too, no harm in looking), but if I was to actually have the opportunity to be with another woman, I don't think I could do it, even with my wife's permission AND participation.

To most of your points, they can be solved by drawing up reproduction contracts and having a child with someone for the soul reason of passing on your genes, to the last point I said no emotions, you can use friends/family for the same purposes.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Here's a different question: If people are just doing it for the sex, why is there a need to go to other people for it?

Get the answer to that and you have the answer for why cheating is such an emotional issue. The whole act of cheating carries an implication that your partner either isn't good enough or that they don't satisfy you. Hence jealousy and feelings of insecurity.

SSSSHHH!!! ..this is like observing a rare species in the wild. Just let it play out.

 

[Guileless]

On an unrelated note, what's the best VR porn developer to invest in?

 

[Caelus]

Gays are treated worse in practically every single culture, just like in other cultures they have different ideas of relationships beyond just monogamy.

I thought we were talking about cheating in monogamous relationships, otherwise what's the point? Even If a radically different culture had any conception of monogamy, cheating would still be reprehensible. If they weren't in monogamous relationships it wouldn't be called "cheating".

 

[Exr]

Sorting through the replies, I'm seeing that people here on both sides are very quick to label. "What, are you swinger?" with heavily implied derision. "Open relationships can be better if you both agree on it". And so on.

In reality, the issue is not a binary choice between "open" and "monogomous". Much like "gay" and "straight" are two arbitrary points on a spectrum, different people are comfortable with different levels of commitment. I've met couples that are monogomous 99% of the time, but have an understanding that if the "right" situation comes up with another person, then the they can go for it as long as there's honesty. So that adds up to maybe an occasional dalliance every 3-4 years. Would you call them "crazy swingers"? Or a "committed couple"?

Here's how I see it. Monogomy is a learned, not natural behavior for most men (and some women). It takes a certain amount of life experience, maturity, and most importantly needs to fit the individual. And if it does, then great! But that process and outcome should not be considered the "default" or "correct" outcome for all or even most relationships. If it's not a good fit for a given person and if they're honest about it, then their partner should either leave them or embrace that behavior. And that doesn't make you a "crazy swinger with robes and patchouli". It makes you an empathetic human being who cares about what's best for others.

Yep. Not that this threads going to make much headway but I feel this is spot on.

 

[Jarate]

I thought we were talking about cheating in monogamous relationships, otherwise what's the point? Even If a radically different culture had any conception of monogamy, cheating would still be reprehensible. If they weren't in monogamous relationships it wouldn't be called "cheating".

Cheating is treated differently in different cultures and between different individuals, even stating that somehow someones reaction to cheating is the norm is pretty silly

 

[Rembrandt]

Once again, the love that me and my partner share is something that im going to have a hard time describing. I am not a wordsmith, and people throughout the ages have been wondering why that special feeling you get with someone specific exists and what it is.

And while she has those feelings, those are based on her own jealousy, which is in general not a good feeling to have. Maybe if we were different people that would be a deal breaker, but it's not too me.

Jealousy is a natural human trait. Nobody is never jealous ever.

 

[truly101]

I'm assuming Jarate will be reporting back to Orson soon.

 

[Nakho]

Cheating by definition is wrong, it's in the name itself. Having sex with people other than your main partner, as long as it was agreed beforehand, is not cheating.

I know you put "cheating" in quote marks in the title, but you kinda knew you would get the knee jerk reactions ("cheating is a breach of trust" and stuff).

 

[Jarate]

Jealousy is a natural human trait. Nobody is never jealous ever.

As is hate, but should we be accepting that hate is good or inherently the way that things should work

 

[Prophet Steve]

Once again, the love that me and my partner share is something that im going to have a hard time describing. I am not a wordsmith, and people throughout the ages have been wondering why that special feeling you get with someone specific exists and what it is.

And while she has those feelings, those are based on her own jealousy, which is in general not a good feeling to have. Maybe if we were different people that would be a deal breaker, but it's not too me.

You can repeat that part about not sharing specifics of your love with your girlfriend all you want, but I am not asking for that. I am talking about the abstract construct of a relationship.

Now as for why people see not having sex with others as an essential part of a relationship is another debate. The first thing is to establish why people seem to vilify cheating so much more than other things.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Cheating is treated differently in different cultures and between different individuals, even stating that somehow someones reaction to cheating is the norm is pretty silly

No it's not. There is absolutely a normal reaction to getting cheated on. You know how I know? Because you made a whole thread asking why it's such a huge deal. If there weren't a norm for this sort of thing, this thread never would have even been a thought in your head because the ideal wouldn't be widespread enough for you to see it as an issue.

 

[Rembrandt]

As is hate, but should we be accepting that hate is good or inherently the way that things should work

Hate is extreme forms of anger, the latter is usually okay to feel. Most people don't hate tons of things/people/etc like most people aren't constantly jealous.

 

[Caelus]

Cheating is treated differently in different cultures and between different individuals, even stating that somehow someones reaction to cheating is the norm is pretty silly

I'm not saying a particular reaction is a norm, just that cheating is often perceived and treated negatively. Reactions can vary from disappointment to anger to giving up to moving on, but I don't think there are a lot of positive sentiments towards cheating as evident in this thread and many others. Relationships can mend and heal after cheating, but that doesn't mean the discovery of infidelity produces positive response.

 

[……forgetit]

Gays are treated worse in practically every single culture, just like in other cultures they have different ideas of relationships beyond just monogamy.

I thought you wanted a discussion about cheating? Non-monogamus relationships are fine for those that want them.

 

[……forgetit]

As is hate, but should we be accepting that hate is good or inherently the way that things should work

Depending on the situation, why yes, hate can be 100% healthy. I hate maybe 2 people and I feel just fine with that.

 

[Griss]

OP fucked his own thread from the start. He wanted to have a conversation about why monogamy is the default setting for relationships, why it's so treasured and seen as such a crime to break it, but instead he asked 'why is cheating bad', which is a fucking obvious question with leading to an entirely different set of quite obvious answers based around trust.

It does remind me of my friend though, who constantly claimed that 'sex really isn't a big deal'.

I'd reply... 'Yeah, it's just a means by which new human life is created; by which you can get diseases that can kill you; that can give you physical pleasure beyond any other means; that exists as a subconscious need in most humans alongside food, water and shelter; that forms the bedrock of most romantic relationships, and thus most nuclear families; that is a way couples express their love of one another; something that is massively tied up with the dual pillars of body image and sexuality? Yeah, shit, I can't think of a single reason. You tell me what exactly IS a big deal?'

 

[Jarate]

I'm not saying a particular reaction is a norm, just that cheating is often perceived and treated negatively. Reactions can vary from disappointment to anger to giving up to moving on, but I don't think there are a lot of positive sentiments towards cheating as evident in this thread and many others. Relationships can mend and heal after cheating, but that doesn't mean the discovery of cheating produces positive response.

And im not trying to imply as if cheating is somehow morally neutral or a good act. In fact, ive stated the opposite multiple times.

I thought you wanted a discussion about cheating? Non-monogamus relationships are fine for those that want them.

I misspoke so I apologize but different cultures react to cheating differently. Same how different people react to cheating in different ways. Saying that it's a social norm is silly for multiple reasons, but even then the idea of it being a social norm isn't inherently true.

 

[Trojita]

Everytime I see this thread, I think to myself "This can't possibly exist". Yet it does.

I don't really have anything else to add beside that. If you are in a committed relationship that isn't stated as being open and you cheat, then you are breaking trust.

 

[LegendofLex]

Beyond simply the "violation of trust" thing, I think there are many logical, evolutionary reasons for committed, faithful monogamy being the "default" assumption:

People's relationships often impact the way they approach their other relationships. It's not as though your relationship with any one person exists in a vacuum, even if it's out of sight and out of mind - the effects of that relationship will inevitably ripple into other parts of your life, whether it's a matter of dividing your attention between multiple relationships, bringing baggage from one relationship into other relationships, etc. edit: It can affect how you see or feel about your partner's body, how your partner sees or feels about his or her own body, how you behave toward your partner and how your partner feels about the way you're behaving toward him or her.

This doesn't just apply to sexual or romantic relationships, of course, but it's especially relevant in that space, especially where cohabitation and family-level commitments are in play.

There's also always a material risk associated with any kind of sexual relationship - even with birth control and STI protection in play. This winds up having consequences not only for you but for your committed partner. Even beyond the material risk, because our sexual behavior is often wrapped up with our romantic attachments, there's always the risk of falling in love with someone else besides your current committed partner by pursuing urges outside of the bounds of your committed relationship. (To use an analogy, no one starts out smoking with the intention of becoming addicted; despite this, it's often difficult to quit.) In monogamous relationships, there are bright-line rules against this kind of thing, so it's easy to know when you've crossed a line even if you're skeptical of the consequences.

Based on these complications, I think it's actually good that monogamy is the default - it's a more risk-adverse, more easily regulated approach to building a stable committed relationship. But naturally some partners may have a preference for different levels of commitment, and as long as their level of commitment is equal and mutually agreed upon (that is, the open relationship isn't merely entered into on the suggestion of one partner, but something both of them actually want) there's no saying you can't have a committed open relationship.

 

[……forgetit]

And im not trying to imply as if cheating is somehow morally neutral or a good act. In fact, ive stated the opposite multiple times.



I misspoke so I apologize but different cultures react to cheating differently. Same how different people react to cheating in different ways. Saying that it's a social norm is silly for multiple reasons, but even then the idea of it being a social norm isn't inherently true.

At this point I have no idea what you're asking.

 

[trikster40]

Get cheated on and then ask the question again.

My ex-wife cheated on me with a guy who lived 6 hours away. I was 30 minutes from his house before I stopped the car and turned around, and the only reason I did that is because I made him call his wife with me on the phone and admit what he did. Needless to say, he's no longer married and lost custody of his kids, and I divorced my wife as well.

When you build a relationship on trust and love, cheating is violating the basic ground rules of your relationship. At what point does the cheater not feel guilt or doubt about what they're doing? Mine had to drive for 3 hours to meet this dude halfway to sleep with him. If she can do something like that without questioning her decision, what else would she do later? I tried for 2 years to fix my marriage, but that trust was forever broken. It gnaws away at you and it got to where I didn't even trust her to go out with friends without me. Who wants to live like that? Not me. I'm in a much better relationship now with my first child on the way, and couldn't be happier.

 

[jmdajr]

OP fucked his own thread from the start. He wanted to have a conversation about why monogamy is the default setting for relationships, why it's so treasured and seen as such a crime to break it, but instead he asked 'why is cheating bad', which is a fucking obvious question with leading to an entirely different set of quite obvious answers based around trust.

It does remind me of my friend though, who constantly claimed that 'sex really isn't a big deal'.

I'd reply... 'Yeah, it's just a means by which new human life is created; by which you can get diseases that can kill you; that can give you physical pleasure beyond any other means; that exists as a subconscious need in most humans alongside food, water and shelter; that forms the bedrock of most romantic relationships, and thus most nuclear families; that is a way couples express their love of one another; something that is massively tied up with the dual pillars of body image and sexuality? Yeah, shit, I can't think of a single reason. You tell me what exactly IS a big deal?'

That's some stuff right there....

 

[etrain911]

Because relationships are built on trust and cheating is a breach of that trust.

Basically. It's about morality. It's not okay to lie like that to someone you love.