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Why is it socially acceptable to be Technologically ignorant?
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Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Millions of people use cars every day and have no idea where the oil goes. They have no idea what any of the problem indicator lights on the dash mean.
Hell many people dont even know how to initiate the parking break.
Long story short they dont care and as long as the thing works thats all they are concerned with. Now if some people arent that concerned with how to maintain a 25,000 vehicle why are you surprised others arent that interested in learning about a computer?
I agree. Everyone should have basic knowledge of the technology they use every day. Then again, I also believe that everyone should have a basic education in history, arts, natural sciences, etc. and speak (at least) 2-3 languages. You don't have to be a pro about anything, but you should at least know a few simple basic steps that can make your problem vanish in no time. And for the rest, a quick internet search often gives you a desired solution very quickly and teaches you something as you go.
The issue, I believe, is that this kind of knowledge can be hard to come by. It certainly isn't taught through public education, and most parents don't know about it themselves, so how could they teach their children? The only reason most people in my environment are technologically apt is either because they kept old PCs around to experiment with OS functionality / tools and installed hardware, or because they play video games which sparked their interest in the more technical aspect. For most people, getting rid of technological ignorance is a matter of consulting literature. And how are they supposed to know what is important? I think that possibly compulsive courses in contemporary technology should be offered in plain sight to children and adolescents.
The issue, I believe, is that this kind of knowledge can be hard to come by. It certainly isn't taught through public education, and most parents don't know about it themselves, so how could they teach their children? The only reason most people in my environment are technologically apt is either because they kept old PCs around to experiment with OS functionality / tools and installed hardware, or because they play video games which sparked their interest in the more technical aspect. For most people, getting rid of technological ignorance is a matter of consulting literature. And how are they supposed to know what is important? I think that possibly compulsive courses in contemporary technology should be offered in plain sight to children and adolescents.
AdventureRacing
Member
Same reason people don't know anything about their cars despite the far more dangerous nature of driving a car.
Same reason that most people know absolutely fuck all about their health.
People are ignorant of all sorts of things, many that are much more important that the ones you list as well. I guarantee that there are things you don't know that others take for granted.
Same reason that most people know absolutely fuck all about their health.
People are ignorant of all sorts of things, many that are much more important that the ones you list as well. I guarantee that there are things you don't know that others take for granted.
Because people living in English-speaking countries don't need to learn other languages since English is the international language.
Qrusher14242
Banned
I get this a lot in my family too....mostly if its a problem i need to solve i just google it and then do what some of the results say. If that doesn't work i keep searching.
I think they are afraid to do anything to break it. I've been using computers since i was 9 or 10 or so...so i guess it just comes easier to me. I remember trying to get Aces over Europe to work with sound and my joystick at the same time. Having to fiddle around with the autoexec.bat and config.sys to try to get enough extended memory.
Now its just point and click to get things running.
I think they are afraid to do anything to break it. I've been using computers since i was 9 or 10 or so...so i guess it just comes easier to me. I remember trying to get Aces over Europe to work with sound and my joystick at the same time. Having to fiddle around with the autoexec.bat and config.sys to try to get enough extended memory.
Now its just point and click to get things running.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Probably. I mean, there are people who are:
mathematically ignorant
geographically ignorant
geologically ignorant
any kind of sports - ignorant
any kind of science (biology, chemistry, physics) - ignorant
politically ignorant
It's normal imo.
As an ex-techie myself though, I understand your pain. But the most painful is when you have a new co-worker who's supposed to be technologically savvy for the position but is a complete fucking doofus who doesn't even know how to use Windows. And you wonder each day how they managed to lie their way passed the interviews.
mathematically ignorant
geographically ignorant
geologically ignorant
any kind of sports - ignorant
any kind of science (biology, chemistry, physics) - ignorant
politically ignorant
It's normal imo.
As an ex-techie myself though, I understand your pain. But the most painful is when you have a new co-worker who's supposed to be technologically savvy for the position but is a complete fucking doofus who doesn't even know how to use Windows. And you wonder each day how they managed to lie their way passed the interviews.
I know that full well, English isn't my first language. I was just saying that in the English speaking world most people have little incentive to learn other languages since knowing English is "sufficient".
I will give you some depressing advise that you must live knowing every day:
Every 2nd person has a below average intelligence.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Lets be fair here, learning a language as an adult requires far more time and effort than learning to use basic computer functions. Plus as a native English speaker you really have little incentive to learn another language.
teruterubozu
Member
2 months? You sound really impatient and perhaps not cut out for the people interaction part of your job.
Honestly in some cases it's BETTER THAT THEY HAVE IPHONES rather than other smartphones.
Why?
Cos I can then send them down the road to the Apple Store for some tutorials on how their iPhone, Apple ID or iTunes works. Stops clogging up my time as I've got sales targets to hit.
Depends on the way the average is calculated and which definition you're following. For instance, if you have more outliers on the intelligent side, more than half of the people could be below average intelligence.
How is that different from not feeling the need to learn about routers and ip adresses etcetera and just calling someone who does know about these things when a problem arises?
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
it's not feasible for most of native english speaking word to learn another language. It's just really really really difficult for little to no result, the majority will never even be exposed to most other languages except for a couple weeks in whatever country they visit for a holiday they saved up for.
It's frustrating that people can't grasp this, it's so obvious.
hours required and demonstrable benefit to the person.
We live in a more and more globalised world. It is virtually impossible not to be exposed to at least one foreign language on a regular basis nowadays. Also, it's really all about increasing your employability and education, as well as a sign of some basic respect for a different culture.
Obviously, there are some regions that are a hub of many different languages (eg Europe), where it is absolutely necessary to be able to speak multiple languages, but even in countries like the US, it certainly can't hurt to know Spanish or French. It is true that English counts among the most spoken languages worldwide, but that is mainly a result of the legacy of the British empire.
When it comes down to raw numbers, there are more people on this planet who don't speak English than people who do.
I'm not tech support, just a business analyst.
Sometimes I have to help people in the field create PivotTables in Excel. No big deal; not everyone has to do them a lot, so they never learned.
What gets me is when I'm walking them through it, and I ask them what version of Excel they're running, and they don't know. This happens quite often, I'd say 50% of the time, really. They work on their computers 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Isn't there a brief splash screen that comes up when you boot it up every day??
I usually just end up asking them "In the top left corner, do you see the word "File," or do you see a large button looking thing?" That usually solves it,since everyone's either on '03 or '07.
Oh, and sort of related: Copier errors. I see so many people walk up to the copier, see that it's jammed or has some other error, and then just walk away. This particular copier even shows you where the jam is. And if it's some other error, 99% of the time, turning it off and turning it on again will fix it. The copier will not explode if you hit the power button, people.
Sometimes I have to help people in the field create PivotTables in Excel. No big deal; not everyone has to do them a lot, so they never learned.
What gets me is when I'm walking them through it, and I ask them what version of Excel they're running, and they don't know. This happens quite often, I'd say 50% of the time, really. They work on their computers 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Isn't there a brief splash screen that comes up when you boot it up every day??
I usually just end up asking them "In the top left corner, do you see the word "File," or do you see a large button looking thing?" That usually solves it,since everyone's either on '03 or '07.
Oh, and sort of related: Copier errors. I see so many people walk up to the copier, see that it's jammed or has some other error, and then just walk away. This particular copier even shows you where the jam is. And if it's some other error, 99% of the time, turning it off and turning it on again will fix it. The copier will not explode if you hit the power button, people.
I'm surprised that the OP did not link to the new popular article "many people are computer illiterate, and why it should worry you".
http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/
http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Impossible? I only hear a foreign language if I eat dinner in a legit Mexican restaurant or go buy a brush from the beauty supple store.
French? The last time I heard French I was taking the class in high school........13 years ago.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Hmmmmm funny thing here. I use Excel every day at work, in fact one of my duties is to create a pivot table with a recap of our daily operations and I have no idea what version of Excel I use. Yeah there is a splash screen but I never look at it. I use the time it takes Excel to boot to start loading other programs or jump on the net. I don't think knowing what version of a program you are using indicates your computer saviness though. I mean do people keep track of what version Android they use? I certainly have no idea what version of iOS this iPad is using.
If you asked I would know how to find out though. That has to count for something.
Trent Strong
Banned
No one speaks French in the US.
Be glad you have a job.
I work at a help-desk for a company and see where you are coming from. The most important thing to ignore such issues and talk with colleagues and laugh about the most silly ones. Don't focus on the negative part. Be service minded and just accept any appreciation you can get. Because when shit happens, you will need it.
I work at a help-desk for a company and see where you are coming from. The most important thing to ignore such issues and talk with colleagues and laugh about the most silly ones. Don't focus on the negative part. Be service minded and just accept any appreciation you can get. Because when shit happens, you will need it.
This. I did this job for a few years and I never got THAT fed up with it. Old people don't know computers, big deal.
Give it some time, OP. You'll learn to tune out the idiots and when you start getting some calls from really old people who try their hardest to learn, they'll warm your cold heart. Some of the seniors can be very charming and fun to teach. In fact, I had more pleasant experiences with old folks than I did, like, 35-y/o business dudes at the apex of their careers. Those guys are generally some impatient dickholes.
I still find it kinda pathetic when a young(ish) person has no idea what button does what. You grew up with computers everywhere, you were likely taught some in school and you use one every single day, for 9 hours a day, and you STILL don't know what a "start menu" is? Come on son.
Most people are multitasking. When I'm opening an Excel file, I'm already looking at something else until it pops open; if I don't have something else open already in Excel so it doesn't need to show the splash screen. Most people just leave their PCs and most important programs running.
Jams are incredibly hard to solve. It is nice to know where it is jammed, but that still doesn't help when the paper is jammed between 3-4 layers of the machine that is sprouting ink whenever you touch it when it is open. I'm not touching that thing.
It is the same for most computer stuff mentionned in the OP, 99% of all people will never need to know it. What is the advantage of knowing the difference between an address bar and a search bar? Hell, often when I'm lazy, I type Google into the search bar instead of the address bar. Switching from Internet Explorer to something else won't save much time either considering a lot of business applications only work in IE.
That is what you're supposed to do. 99% of offices have rules that no one but IT is supposed to touch the stuff.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Unfortunately in the US we just aren't exposed enough :/. Spanish is the only one on the radar, and one most certainly will not have to use it in everyday life growing up. If you live in LA that may be another story though.
WHY?!?
Go onto the search bar. Search for the search engine. Wait for the site to load. Input query in text field (god I hope you don't click on the google result to go to google to search). Search.
vs.
Go onto search bar. Input query. Search.
I don't think you're doing laziness right.
Ventilaator
Banned
I always thought that this problem would disappear with newer generations. They all grew up with iPads in their hands so their parents could avoid parenting.
Then a kid asked me how to get a new blank page in Word after he had filled the first one.
Then a kid asked me how to get a new blank page in Word after he had filled the first one.
DiscoJer
Member
Why do they have oil change places? That takes like 15 minutes tops. Unscrew a plug on the bottom, unscrew a filter, let the oil drain out, put a new filter in, put the plug back in, put the oil in.
Okay, getting rid of the oil can be a problem, but not that big a one.
Or changing plugs. Unscrew plug. Check gap. Screw new plug in. Repeat.
Okay, getting rid of the oil can be a problem, but not that big a one.
Or changing plugs. Unscrew plug. Check gap. Screw new plug in. Repeat.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
I work in customer-support for a satellite-tv company. I spend most of my days helping older people changing to the right AV-channel when they've used the wrong remote.
I like the job and find it pretty satisfying, only thing I dislike is just the general laziness of people calling and wanting me to solve things I can't help them with. They call and want help, but expect me to know everything about their equipment, and let me tell you, satellite tv opens up for such an incredible amount of user-errors that at times I just have to sit there quiet and hope they get the hint that maybe they should try and do some troubleshooting before calling me.
But it's still fun and I don't dread going to work.
I like the job and find it pretty satisfying, only thing I dislike is just the general laziness of people calling and wanting me to solve things I can't help them with. They call and want help, but expect me to know everything about their equipment, and let me tell you, satellite tv opens up for such an incredible amount of user-errors that at times I just have to sit there quiet and hope they get the hint that maybe they should try and do some troubleshooting before calling me.
But it's still fun and I don't dread going to work.
Other Google services
Also Google Search starts loading results while typing your search query when on the Google frontpage, which can help you determine if the results are going into the right direction, something which is helpful when you're looking for more obscure terms. And of course, whatever you searched for won't be in your search bar which means people can't see you have been searching for the TV guide at work for instance which means I don't have to erase that.Everyone cant know that stuff. I do however and its nice to help with it, I learned from tinkering myself and reading sited/guides. A big think is knowing how to google/what to search for.
One thing is that they are also afraid to try it. I am the same with cars. But you do something wrong on a comp you can very easy revert it.
Im good at tech stuff but suck at other common sense stuff like, cars, cooking etc.
Simple stuff like changing homepage is there by just opening the settings in the browser, but finding out OS versions is way above what someone who uses their comp for mail, FB, youtube needs to know.
No, this will not go away. Its a big difference tapping an app on an iPad to play angry birds and configuring your routers SSID and channel correctly.
I learned by stuff breaking, our HDD on our old computer broke and me and my dad had to switch it. If I was in another family we might have called someone to fix it or just have thrown it away and got another. But that lead to me googling for how computers worked and eventually building my own, then you need to learn about OS, drivers, home networking etc
Games was the thing ofc, I wanted it to play games, still do! If everyone just plays simple iPad games there is nothing to fix or tinker with. Just go to the apple store...
One thing is that they are also afraid to try it. I am the same with cars. But you do something wrong on a comp you can very easy revert it.
Im good at tech stuff but suck at other common sense stuff like, cars, cooking etc.
Simple stuff like changing homepage is there by just opening the settings in the browser, but finding out OS versions is way above what someone who uses their comp for mail, FB, youtube needs to know.
No, this will not go away. Its a big difference tapping an app on an iPad to play angry birds and configuring your routers SSID and channel correctly.
I learned by stuff breaking, our HDD on our old computer broke and me and my dad had to switch it. If I was in another family we might have called someone to fix it or just have thrown it away and got another. But that lead to me googling for how computers worked and eventually building my own, then you need to learn about OS, drivers, home networking etc
Games was the thing ofc, I wanted it to play games, still do! If everyone just plays simple iPad games there is nothing to fix or tinker with. Just go to the apple store...
Do you see that in this scenario you are the person not knowing or caring about technical stuff but just going with what works for them?
Try to see it this way: browsing yahoo on an undefined "windows" computer is speaking one language to a degree that is satisfactory to you, all the rest is unneccessary.
Other Google services
But the same amount of effort is required to select either the search or the address bar (in browsers which somehow still have both). If a person learns once which is which, with no extra effort in the process of performing the query, but getting to the correct page in one less step.
I'm not even going to mention that it's super easy to remove terms from a search bar, and that looking at the search bar is not the method by which the people at work can check what you're searching for.
To each their own, I guess.
The simple act of using an object does not magically impart unto you all existing technical knowledge relating to that object. People use browsers and don't know how the internet works. People use Windows and don't know what an operating system is. People use laptops and don't know what a CPU or RAM is. People buy Intel CPUs and don't know what ALUs or register files or logic gates or transistors are. Because why would you bother giving a fuck about all that when all you really want to do is login to Facebook?
The same effort is required to select search and address, true. The term you need to enter in both isn't. I'm allowed to make mistakes in one, not in the another. I could enter just 'Google' in the address bar, but it takes longer to realize what it needs to do which is go to search for it.* Aside from that, you can actually leave the term 'Google' in there meaning you only have to click search or press enter, meaning in my case I have three less buttons to press. (*This is browser dependent behaviour, some browsers just add .com to the search word and send you there)
And unless you're doing something wrong with the internet/illegal/porn, IT won't care what you're looking at. Your coworkers on the other hand do care. By the way, it is easy to remove something from the search bar, it just requires another click and another button.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Specialization of labor
Liberty4all
Banned
My mother was Tech illiterate too. Needed help even turning on a PC.
Then i got her an iPad. Fast forward 1 year, she now chats me up on Facebook, while letting know about the latest fascinating fact she learned on drmd.com. She barely watches tv anymore but surfs travel forums laughing at flame wars.
its amazing to me really.
Then i got her an iPad. Fast forward 1 year, she now chats me up on Facebook, while letting know about the latest fascinating fact she learned on drmd.com. She barely watches tv anymore but surfs travel forums laughing at flame wars.
its amazing to me really.
I would certainly agree that with some copiers, that is the case. Not with this particular one, though. It is pretty user-friendly. There are only about 6-7 places where a jam could actually occur, and they are all easy to reach. It has never leaked toner, either. With this one, if a jam is ever hard to fix, it's usually because someone did try to fix it, but got impatient, ripped the paper out of its location, and a tiny piece got stuck in the works. That doesn't happen often, but I have seen it.
With technology a lot of people just don't care to know how to use something, and for some reason I feel like it comes more natural to a younger crowd. It's because of a logic problem.
For example, if I didn't understand computers and I always could log in, go to email program there would be all of my email- then all of a sudden I'm getting my significant other's email on there, I would be confused. Logically, I do X to get Y but now I get Z. Now, if I tell you that it's Outlook that's a problem. If I tell you it's Gmail, it's not a problem. You see the issue? Because we have programs that all have different rules, if someone doesn't get that the rule has been changed then they can't get to that point.
Because OSes change so often and they likely aren't the ones installing it, they probably can't tell the difference or know. Windows looks like Windows (unless it's Windows 8) and a Mac is always going to look the same. Homepages aren't something someone does every day. These days most people use the search bar when they need to find anything more than the address bar. No one wants to get a virus on the computer (because it's such a pain) and it's the same thing with other electronics.
But yeah. IE is pretty damn awful. I yell at people who use it.
For example, if I didn't understand computers and I always could log in, go to email program there would be all of my email- then all of a sudden I'm getting my significant other's email on there, I would be confused. Logically, I do X to get Y but now I get Z. Now, if I tell you that it's Outlook that's a problem. If I tell you it's Gmail, it's not a problem. You see the issue? Because we have programs that all have different rules, if someone doesn't get that the rule has been changed then they can't get to that point.
Because OSes change so often and they likely aren't the ones installing it, they probably can't tell the difference or know. Windows looks like Windows (unless it's Windows 8) and a Mac is always going to look the same. Homepages aren't something someone does every day. These days most people use the search bar when they need to find anything more than the address bar. No one wants to get a virus on the computer (because it's such a pain) and it's the same thing with other electronics.
But yeah. IE is pretty damn awful. I yell at people who use it.
Working for a very large corporation i see a lot of what goes on in the IT department. I also wonder how some of these IT guys have not murdered people yet. However, being in HR, i also believe you need to have patience with people. Everyone i have seen responds better when you take the time to teach and not just instruct.
When you instruct someone, you just spit out facts and processes. People are intimidated by this, and usually shy away when they feel they may not grasp it. No one wants to feel stupid and if they do not grasp it, they clam up and can also get angry at you for feeling inferior to you.
Teaching gives the person a chance to interact, a chance to learn. I constantly reassure people it is alright to call the help desk, they are not stupid, merely ignorant of that particular nuance of the system. They can learn it. And i also instruct the IT guys not to belittle them and carefully TEACH the user, not just instruct them. It makes a world of difference.
When you instruct someone, you just spit out facts and processes. People are intimidated by this, and usually shy away when they feel they may not grasp it. No one wants to feel stupid and if they do not grasp it, they clam up and can also get angry at you for feeling inferior to you.
Teaching gives the person a chance to interact, a chance to learn. I constantly reassure people it is alright to call the help desk, they are not stupid, merely ignorant of that particular nuance of the system. They can learn it. And i also instruct the IT guys not to belittle them and carefully TEACH the user, not just instruct them. It makes a world of difference.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
This is really the gist of it. The laziness and lack of intellectual curiosity is what is concerning, not the lack of knowledge in any particular area. People who have that intellectual curiosity and drive won't hesitate to dabble outside of their comfort zone.
I wouldn't be surprised if the growing pervasiveness of said laziness is a wider symptom of our transition into a service-based society that has manifested itself into some kind of learned-helplessness.
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