There's another issue I run into as a software engineer, that's similar to people who don't like having settings. I tend to prematurely optimize everything. I can't just pass fiddling with settings or looking into mods to improve that experience. I frequently joke about PC reviews (especially TotalBiscuit's) that half of them is settings screen. However, whenever I take my time to do that, not only am I not gaming, but I also feel guilty, that I'm wasting my time optimizing some other software rather than working on my own side project.
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Why is PC gaming still considered difficult with too much tinkering?
- Thread starter Fess
- Start date
Outside of checking the box to enable 4K and HDR at system-level (and TV settings-wise), nope. If there are any specific in-game settings on a per-game basis, that'd be news to me and I honestly wouldn't mess around with them anyway unless it was: "check this box to enable 4K" or "check this box to enable HDR".
I don't care much for adjusting sliders, etc. Just so you understand, I also don't care about nor see the difference in 60fps vs 30fps.
Not even joking.
joecanada
Member
well to be fair consoles brick too, and you wouldn't have had the option to replace parts very easily. but most would have come with a warranty which you could have also gotten with a pc.........
so your case is actually an argument for .......... both sides? Lol. this as any other thread is about opinions and OP should have known the answer was never going to be "ok sure you're right".
VoltrefferNL
Banned
The amount of times i have to kill processes just to get Football manager running... oh man.
No my PS4 is a lot easier in that regard.
No my PS4 is a lot easier in that regard.
Just from my experience, as a very long time console player who moved to PC. PC gaming can be as easy as you work to make it. Right now, I have Steam Link set up and paired to DS4 and I literally just hit the PS button into BigPicture and Im off. Doesn't get much easier and is pretty damn close to the console experience. Enough so that I hardly miss having a console. At least as long as the game is supported and has controller support. That said, it took a good deal of work to get there. Consoles are already easy since someone else has already done the work and then locked it down.
GHG
Member
You play football manager on the PS4?
Is this really just an issue of;
PC's have a seemingly more level chance of either working or not. With the exclusive benefit of being able to either fix the problem yourself, or hope that another user does. This seems to be almost guaranteed with most games getting fixed at some point, but it takes effort to find the fix and apply it. They're also more open which means more options and more complications along with those options. Which can be a huge win in terms of being able to experience games that'd have never happened on console (like total conversion mods e.g. Counter-Strike).
While a console has a better ratio of working outright to not. But if something doesn't work right, the console owner has very little to no options other than to hope the developers fix the issue. Consoles are closed with little to no options other than the standards set by the producer of the console. You get what you get and nothing more.
PC's have a seemingly more level chance of either working or not. With the exclusive benefit of being able to either fix the problem yourself, or hope that another user does. This seems to be almost guaranteed with most games getting fixed at some point, but it takes effort to find the fix and apply it. They're also more open which means more options and more complications along with those options. Which can be a huge win in terms of being able to experience games that'd have never happened on console (like total conversion mods e.g. Counter-Strike).
While a console has a better ratio of working outright to not. But if something doesn't work right, the console owner has very little to no options other than to hope the developers fix the issue. Consoles are closed with little to no options other than the standards set by the producer of the console. You get what you get and nothing more.
I booted up this niche game that hardly anyone has heard of to see if it would run ok without having to spend my evening troubleshooting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brSegviIaBE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brSegviIaBE
OmegaDL50
Member
I mainly keep my PC as a Bethesda box. My first PC built entirely from the ground up was back in 2007 for Oblivion, I did the same in 2012 for Skyrim, and I just did another build last year in 2016.
My very first computer was not self built, but I did upgrade the ram and video card. That was back in 2003 which incidentally mainly used for Morrowind.
I keep each of my PC builds much like buying a new console. One PC with unchanging parts and no tweaking every 4 to 5 years. I will do another build again in 2020 or 2021 to keep with the pattern I have established for the last 10 years.
However not everything goes to plan. A failed HDD, a bad power supply, a dying GPU. These things are very real issues. Hardware failures are oddity, of course in the same token if something goes wrong with a console. The whole console is finished and you cannot simply fix the single bad component like you can on PC, so there is a trade off.
As for software configuration. I generally I just let Windows do it's thing, or use GeForce Experience or even the Radeon Catalyst utility to manage my GPU driver.
When it comes to software. I'd say the trickiest problems I run into is related to my modding adventures in the Elder Scrolls titles.
The amount of configuration for mods can be daunting at times. However with great freedoms and power to control what you can do the greater the complexity involved.
Look at how barebones and simplified the modding experience for Fallout 4 or Skyrim Remaster on the Xbox One is, or worse the PS4 is in comparison.
I also own a PS4 Pro as well for exclusives mainly (Horizon, Persona 5, Yakuza 0, Nioh, etc.)
I couldn't imagine the chaos that would ensue if the console publishers allowed free reign for full modding support without any sort of restrictions as like the PC versions. People complain about performance issues on Bethesda games as-is on the consoles already. I cannot imagine the sort of issues that would be made by certain users outright ignoring modding compatibility issues and turning their working console experience into a unplayable mess that could cost them their hours long save files or worse needing to completely wipe their mod list clean and reinstall them one by one to find out which mod was the problem child.
When everything works, It's an amazing experience and it's a joy to visit entirely new land masses, all new quest lines, entirely new weapons, armor, and items, and even improved combat mechanics and leveling systems, but if something does go wrong. Oh boy...
I love my PC and the freedoms it gives me, but console gaming also awesome too. I would never give up either one.
I find it ironic you linked the video in your post at the very same time I was writing up my entire post. What an odd coincidence.
My very first computer was not self built, but I did upgrade the ram and video card. That was back in 2003 which incidentally mainly used for Morrowind.
I keep each of my PC builds much like buying a new console. One PC with unchanging parts and no tweaking every 4 to 5 years. I will do another build again in 2020 or 2021 to keep with the pattern I have established for the last 10 years.
However not everything goes to plan. A failed HDD, a bad power supply, a dying GPU. These things are very real issues. Hardware failures are oddity, of course in the same token if something goes wrong with a console. The whole console is finished and you cannot simply fix the single bad component like you can on PC, so there is a trade off.
As for software configuration. I generally I just let Windows do it's thing, or use GeForce Experience or even the Radeon Catalyst utility to manage my GPU driver.
When it comes to software. I'd say the trickiest problems I run into is related to my modding adventures in the Elder Scrolls titles.
The amount of configuration for mods can be daunting at times. However with great freedoms and power to control what you can do the greater the complexity involved.
Look at how barebones and simplified the modding experience for Fallout 4 or Skyrim Remaster on the Xbox One is, or worse the PS4 is in comparison.
I also own a PS4 Pro as well for exclusives mainly (Horizon, Persona 5, Yakuza 0, Nioh, etc.)
I couldn't imagine the chaos that would ensue if the console publishers allowed free reign for full modding support without any sort of restrictions as like the PC versions. People complain about performance issues on Bethesda games as-is on the consoles already. I cannot imagine the sort of issues that would be made by certain users outright ignoring modding compatibility issues and turning their working console experience into a unplayable mess that could cost them their hours long save files or worse needing to completely wipe their mod list clean and reinstall them one by one to find out which mod was the problem child.
When everything works, It's an amazing experience and it's a joy to visit entirely new land masses, all new quest lines, entirely new weapons, armor, and items, and even improved combat mechanics and leveling systems, but if something does go wrong. Oh boy...
I love my PC and the freedoms it gives me, but console gaming also awesome too. I would never give up either one.
I find it ironic you linked the video in your post at the very same time I was writing up my entire post. What an odd coincidence.
Hi. Can you explain what's wrong with the Alienware Alpha R2? Genuinely curious why this was a mistake.
The R2 has almost the exact same stats as the most popular Steam rig (I have a 960 instead of a 970). It's just a bit overpriced.
Overclocking.
PC gaming unfortunately does have a stigma where many people believe its too complicated to game on a PC compared to a console, in my humble opinion this simply is not true.
Something I see time and time again on forums where the topic is a PC game crashing, stuttering, freezing or BSOD etc is eventually revealed to be caused by overclocking.
In all the years I have been PC gaming I can hand on heart say I have very rarely experienced an issue launching or playing a game right after buying it from Steam or wherever. If I ever had an issue it was either a bug that affected many other users and is patched out by the dev or a work around is found by the community which normally involved modifying a simple config file with a text editor. Easy peasy.
Never any hardware issues and I believe it is because my PC runs at stock with no overclocking.
I have dabbled with overclocking before just to see what it was all about but could not be bothered to sustain it and just went back to stock. The reward is minimal in the real world and all it does is stress the hardware more, create more heat and ultimately cause software issues resulting in crashing and freezing.
Its very easy to build - or even buy a pre-made - PC these days, turn it on, install Steam and away you go. All you have to do is just make sure all the software is up to date like windows, gpu drivers and steam. All the other drivers like motherboard and audio etc just dont need regular updates, hell the devs dont even provide regular updates for this hardware unless they find a bug that needs fixing. I havent updated the motherboard or audio drivers on my PC in years, theres no need as the software version installed when I bought the PC or part works fine.
There are a few things you can do to maybe help avoid issues when building/running a PC. Some of these things others will not agree with but I have stuck to these for years and its worked for me.
* First, right off the bat, putting it out there...always go with Intel and Nvidia. There I said it. Fanboy? Yes. But I stick to what I know and what works.
* When buying RAM for your motherboard always check the motherboards QVL - Qualified Vendor List and only buy that exact RAM that is listed as it has been tried and tested on the motherboard.
* Never buy a cheap PSU. Always buy a reputable brand and get one that has enough wattage head room above what your PC requires. If your PC is estimated to require 300W, dont buy a 300W, get a 350 or 400 etc. If you have a PC with more than one HDD or multiple GPU's, when you are in a game and everything is running full whack, drawing more power you dont want a lack of power being the issue.
* Put the most common software on auto update - Windows, Steam, GPU drivers etc so you dont have to worry about doing it manually. It will always be up to date.
* Dont overclock. Simple really, if you do not intend to squeeze a few more FPS out of games and keep checking temps and volts etc etc. Just dont bother, leave everything in the Bios on auto or standard.
* Dont bother with anti-virus or firewall software. Seriously you dont need it. They hog the **** out of your system resources. A simple solution - dont visit dodgy websites or open dodgy emails.
* Never install unnecessary software, the basics you need to run a gaming PC is windows, a driver for each piece of hardware - some of which are built into windows - and steam or origin etc. Any other 'enhancing' types of software are a load of ****. You just need the driver for it to function and job done.
PC gaming unfortunately does have a stigma where many people believe its too complicated to game on a PC compared to a console, in my humble opinion this simply is not true.
Something I see time and time again on forums where the topic is a PC game crashing, stuttering, freezing or BSOD etc is eventually revealed to be caused by overclocking.
In all the years I have been PC gaming I can hand on heart say I have very rarely experienced an issue launching or playing a game right after buying it from Steam or wherever. If I ever had an issue it was either a bug that affected many other users and is patched out by the dev or a work around is found by the community which normally involved modifying a simple config file with a text editor. Easy peasy.
Never any hardware issues and I believe it is because my PC runs at stock with no overclocking.
I have dabbled with overclocking before just to see what it was all about but could not be bothered to sustain it and just went back to stock. The reward is minimal in the real world and all it does is stress the hardware more, create more heat and ultimately cause software issues resulting in crashing and freezing.
Its very easy to build - or even buy a pre-made - PC these days, turn it on, install Steam and away you go. All you have to do is just make sure all the software is up to date like windows, gpu drivers and steam. All the other drivers like motherboard and audio etc just dont need regular updates, hell the devs dont even provide regular updates for this hardware unless they find a bug that needs fixing. I havent updated the motherboard or audio drivers on my PC in years, theres no need as the software version installed when I bought the PC or part works fine.
There are a few things you can do to maybe help avoid issues when building/running a PC. Some of these things others will not agree with but I have stuck to these for years and its worked for me.
* First, right off the bat, putting it out there...always go with Intel and Nvidia. There I said it. Fanboy? Yes. But I stick to what I know and what works.
* When buying RAM for your motherboard always check the motherboards QVL - Qualified Vendor List and only buy that exact RAM that is listed as it has been tried and tested on the motherboard.
* Never buy a cheap PSU. Always buy a reputable brand and get one that has enough wattage head room above what your PC requires. If your PC is estimated to require 300W, dont buy a 300W, get a 350 or 400 etc. If you have a PC with more than one HDD or multiple GPU's, when you are in a game and everything is running full whack, drawing more power you dont want a lack of power being the issue.
* Put the most common software on auto update - Windows, Steam, GPU drivers etc so you dont have to worry about doing it manually. It will always be up to date.
* Dont overclock. Simple really, if you do not intend to squeeze a few more FPS out of games and keep checking temps and volts etc etc. Just dont bother, leave everything in the Bios on auto or standard.
* Dont bother with anti-virus or firewall software. Seriously you dont need it. They hog the **** out of your system resources. A simple solution - dont visit dodgy websites or open dodgy emails.
* Never install unnecessary software, the basics you need to run a gaming PC is windows, a driver for each piece of hardware - some of which are built into windows - and steam or origin etc. Any other 'enhancing' types of software are a load of ****. You just need the driver for it to function and job done.
If we're talking about hardcore PC gaming where you have to build your own, sorry- that will always be less convenient than just buying and plugging in a prepackaged plastic box and knowing that the console itself is optimized perfectly for the games that go into it because the box itself is a single standard everyone else develops for. It doesn't matter how easier the process for PC building has gotten in years, and it won't until there's a single "gaming PC" that is standardized to the extent that consoles are.
If we're talking literally anything and everything you play on computer- from CD games with installs to Steam to Kongregate- I still don't feel it's comparable.
Steam? I downloaded Child of Light, right? Played it over at my brother's house and was excited AF to continue on my own. Oh wait, I had to download the damn U-Play client to even bother. Okay, so I download that, on top of having Steam. Turn on the game- stuttering like hell. My 1-2 year old PC at the time wasn't optimized to play it. My brother had to give me a graphics card just to be able to run the thing. I very likely wouldn't have faced these problems on a console, because again the console is already optimized to play everything that's compatible with it.
Browser games? An utter crapshoot of different standards because they're all developed on different engines, nor do they know what aspect ratio, specs, and updates you are or aren't running. One game will be nicely centered in a reasonably-sized window, another will be ridiculously long and require scrolling. Another's windowed mode will work, another won't. Certain games won't even work at all anymore because they're founded on old server tech (RIP Bunni: How We First Met. ;~
Yes. Consoles can have dumbass hardware problems that undercut their convenience of installation and running (looking at you red rings and left Joycons). PCs also have a bigger library than any single console (although no one really says this is a good thing when it comes to mobile, but whatever; yay for Steam Greenlight.) However, the average experience is that for someone who just doesn't care to get into the nitty gritty of everything, or even for people who want specific console exclusives (Mario Odyssey ain't comin' to Steam so what do I do there? That's right- buy a console), consoles offer an appropriate and sometimes better experience for them. And yes, I say all of this having helped build a PC before. I know the process. The overwhelming point is, I didn't need to build my goddamn Wii U.
(And another thing: Am I the only one who feels we have this thread every other month where PC gamers feel distraught or offended about people who don't care to hop into the world of PC gaming, or even disparage it? Why are you guys so invested in getting people on board with the hobby? Natural extension of console wars?)
If we're talking literally anything and everything you play on computer- from CD games with installs to Steam to Kongregate- I still don't feel it's comparable.
Steam? I downloaded Child of Light, right? Played it over at my brother's house and was excited AF to continue on my own. Oh wait, I had to download the damn U-Play client to even bother. Okay, so I download that, on top of having Steam. Turn on the game- stuttering like hell. My 1-2 year old PC at the time wasn't optimized to play it. My brother had to give me a graphics card just to be able to run the thing. I very likely wouldn't have faced these problems on a console, because again the console is already optimized to play everything that's compatible with it.
Browser games? An utter crapshoot of different standards because they're all developed on different engines, nor do they know what aspect ratio, specs, and updates you are or aren't running. One game will be nicely centered in a reasonably-sized window, another will be ridiculously long and require scrolling. Another's windowed mode will work, another won't. Certain games won't even work at all anymore because they're founded on old server tech (RIP Bunni: How We First Met. ;~
Yes. Consoles can have dumbass hardware problems that undercut their convenience of installation and running (looking at you red rings and left Joycons). PCs also have a bigger library than any single console (although no one really says this is a good thing when it comes to mobile, but whatever; yay for Steam Greenlight.) However, the average experience is that for someone who just doesn't care to get into the nitty gritty of everything, or even for people who want specific console exclusives (Mario Odyssey ain't comin' to Steam so what do I do there? That's right- buy a console), consoles offer an appropriate and sometimes better experience for them. And yes, I say all of this having helped build a PC before. I know the process. The overwhelming point is, I didn't need to build my goddamn Wii U.
(And another thing: Am I the only one who feels we have this thread every other month where PC gamers feel distraught or offended about people who don't care to hop into the world of PC gaming, or even disparage it? Why are you guys so invested in getting people on board with the hobby? Natural extension of console wars?)
Total Cereal
Member
Process Explorer is a great program that monitors CPU, GPU, memory, and more. It was just being detected as a cheat or something.
pinballsummer
Member
Anyone else have issues with the Windows Creators Update? Fun stuff was had by myself and many of my friends. Alert: Fair amount of tweaking required.
That's pretty much the issue, except that people who play primarily or exclusively on consoles, expect everything working, so have lower threshold for acceptable tinkering.
Installs forza horizon 3. Sets to automatic detail. Horrible frame rate. Spend ages trying to tweak settings to get better performance without dropping quality too far. Get nowhere
PCs are frustrating. i don't have much time to game and I don't want to be wasting that by having to fiddle with settings.
It is much, *much* better than it used to be in the days of tying to free up enough conventional memory by editing confit.sys files and changing IRQs, but still far from being a seamless experience.
Ultimately it's a trade off between how much effort are you willing to put in for the potential performance rewards
PCs are frustrating. i don't have much time to game and I don't want to be wasting that by having to fiddle with settings.
It is much, *much* better than it used to be in the days of tying to free up enough conventional memory by editing confit.sys files and changing IRQs, but still far from being a seamless experience.
Ultimately it's a trade off between how much effort are you willing to put in for the potential performance rewards
Fair neough, not getting the most out of your system but whatever floats your boat.
And to the last bit, there's no way in hell you don't see the difference between this??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEk_2J8sUV8
I haven't got a single problem, too. Downloaded, hit play 'Vice City', had fun. Not so on the PS4 where pop ups are still a thing and textures takes too long to load and I drive over nothing. Oh, and loading screens of several seconds when entering another region/isle.
Just make sure to have the frame limiter on (but it is by default, no tweaking needed there either). Weird things happen at +600FPS in this game.
Intel i5 4690k and GTX 1070, Windows 10 Pro.
I admit, I laughed when I refreshed the page and saw your opening sentence.
RichiRamjag
Member
Pretty much. As I said earlier in the thread, I can resolve most issues that come up when on pc, I just don't want to. I don't even want to touch a mouse and keyboard when gaming, yet something always requires me to do so at some point. I still think PC is one of the best options, it's just not for everyone.
pinballsummer
Member
Interesting. Well - try 4 if you guys have it. That's the one that gave us all the most trouble.
Side by side, sure I see a difference, but there'd be no way for me to tell if it was just one or the other on my screen at any given time.
Broken PC ports are launched. GPU drivers periodically cause undesired issues when updated. I agree with the notion that it's more difficult for sure. Consoles are generally just plug and play, even if you do wait for the occasional patch these days.
My motherboard is currently 2 BIOS updates out of date because there have been reports of the newer versions negatively affecting memory overclocking, and it was difficult to get my RAM to run at spec to begin with (well impossible actually). The last thing I want to do is upgrade and then spend a day or two trying to dial the RAM back where I had it. My fans are currently ramping up and down continuously because the 7700k has issues.
I've been PC gaming since my favorites were Infocom text adventures, so I don't lack for experience. It just is what it is.
My motherboard is currently 2 BIOS updates out of date because there have been reports of the newer versions negatively affecting memory overclocking, and it was difficult to get my RAM to run at spec to begin with (well impossible actually). The last thing I want to do is upgrade and then spend a day or two trying to dial the RAM back where I had it. My fans are currently ramping up and down continuously because the 7700k has issues.
I've been PC gaming since my favorites were Infocom text adventures, so I don't lack for experience. It just is what it is.
Might be GFWL causing that one, however I have been wanting to mod the hell out of it and replay the game.
Hmm
Threshold levels are the key aren't they? I'm pretty sure mine change from year to year. Since I've been having problems with my PC's not running right (or I feel like they're not running the way I want them to), has caused me to get irritated with them. So when I got a Switch, it was a breath of fresh air to not have to worry about that stuff. But here I am with a Pro controller that takes false inputs, a screen that I had to get a protector for so it won't scratch in the dock and a possible left joy con issue I haven't yet dealt with and who knows what other issues that'll crop up as time moves forward.
In the end, just play what you want and deal with the problems as they come because they'll come eventually. Just like in life really.
SallyIsNow
Banned
I had a laptop I used to emulate PS2 games, and when it updated itself to Windows 10 thing just started running like shit. It'd take like 10 minutes to start up, I could barely run Chrome, and only one tab, no video. Tried a bunch of different shit I read, nothing worked. Now it's just collecting dust somewhere. That's something I never have to worry about on console.
OmegaDL50
Member
I want to buy a Switch eventually myself, however a co-worker and friend of mine has one and his Switch apparently warped from excess heat from the dock. I never seen a console bend like that before.
And doing a quick google search this problem isn't as uncommon as I thought. https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/03/nintendo-switch-owners-report-yet-another-issue-warping/
I will buy a Switch still, but getting a 3rd party dock with some sort of built in cooling solution might be worthwhile to invest in.
Weird how it's so apparent for me, even as a kid too.
I remember I loved Gran Turismo 2 on PS1, I used to play it pretty much every day. Then on Christmas 2001 I got a PS2 with GT3 and my mind was blown away by the smoothness. I'd never witnessed 60fps games before that beforehand, except at the arcade. Of course back then I had no idea what framerate was but the smoothness made me enjoy the game much more tbh.
I now have a 165hz monitor!
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Heh. The fact that there is even a thread to begin with should be reason enough to explain why many people prefer console gaming. Sometimes you just can't be bothered. I say this as someone who occasionally games on PC. It's never been 100% hassle-free, whether it's to fiddle around to make a controller work, or to figure out why the framerate is tanking on an old game my hardware is more than capable of handling, or why the game keeps crashing, or... well fuck that, I'm computer-savvy, but sometimes I just want to sit down and play and not spend time figuring that shit out.
LegendofLex
Member
first post:
also first post:
I never really bothered much with PC gaming outside a few gems like TIE Fighter, StarCraft, SimCity 2000, and old shareware games.
The last time I tried I couldn't get KOTOR 2 to run at all because of compatibility issues.
also first post:
I never really bothered much with PC gaming outside a few gems like TIE Fighter, StarCraft, SimCity 2000, and old shareware games.
The last time I tried I couldn't get KOTOR 2 to run at all because of compatibility issues.
Mine came a little warped out of the box. I think there was a thread here about it and I think it might be a "defect" of the build process or something. I don't notice mine unless I look for it though (and I have to look for a good minute to actually see it). It's not even a bother to me at all.
wonderful103
Member
You can play the overwhelming majority of modern games without the fine-tuning and tweaking. You have the choice, unlike consoles where you are stuck with whatever resolution, IQ and performance the developer sees fit. I don't know why this is continually so difficult to understand.
Don't know what exactly are you trying to prove here but a 780ti was a high-end card 3 years ago, now is mid-range and an i7 could very well be a few months old or half a decade old.
Do your homework.
yanipheonu
Member
The main problem is the PC enthusiast scene is that they can grossly overestimate the general competency of the average PC user.
The complexity is still not a non issue, there can be a lot of playing around with settings and installs, and Windows 10 is a really clunky UI compared to most other interfaces out there.
For some it's like building a model boat or something and they love tinkering with this stuff. But for me, it's more of a nuisance that I have to put up with for the positives of PC. Not everyone is willing to put up with it.
The complexity is still not a non issue, there can be a lot of playing around with settings and installs, and Windows 10 is a really clunky UI compared to most other interfaces out there.
For some it's like building a model boat or something and they love tinkering with this stuff. But for me, it's more of a nuisance that I have to put up with for the positives of PC. Not everyone is willing to put up with it.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The average person doesn't have the expertise to plug in and boot up a console.
The only thing up for discussion here is how many standard deviations above the mean the group of people we're talking about are.
Taliban Stan
Member
Sometimes I'll have a mild issue with a pc game. I'll go online to the help forum and see threads like "I can't even get the installer to run. Help."
That's why.
That's why.
I'm happy to hear you've never had trouble with using a controller.
I've had a ton of trouble because almost nothing supports PS3 controllers or the generic USB PC controller I got. Sure there's 3rd party software that would make it work (usually) but that's tinkering I need to do for almost every single game in my Steam library. This is actually the exact reason I don't play on PC as much as I thought I would when I got a new rig. Now if you happen to have a 360 controller lying around then good for you most games support Xinput nowadays, but even then you'll still run into trouble on occasion.
Now people who like k+m, more power to them and it's easy to see the benefits of such a control system, but personally I'd rather have a controller 100% of the time so no thanks.
And I'm only talking about controller support, which was my primary source of tinkering; there were plenty of times I had trouble figuring out how to window a game/set resolution/fix weird sound errors/etc.
I've had a ton of trouble because almost nothing supports PS3 controllers or the generic USB PC controller I got. Sure there's 3rd party software that would make it work (usually) but that's tinkering I need to do for almost every single game in my Steam library. This is actually the exact reason I don't play on PC as much as I thought I would when I got a new rig. Now if you happen to have a 360 controller lying around then good for you most games support Xinput nowadays, but even then you'll still run into trouble on occasion.
Now people who like k+m, more power to them and it's easy to see the benefits of such a control system, but personally I'd rather have a controller 100% of the time so no thanks.
And I'm only talking about controller support, which was my primary source of tinkering; there were plenty of times I had trouble figuring out how to window a game/set resolution/fix weird sound errors/etc.
Then you ultimately do a clean Windows reinstall cause you don't know what the fuck went wrong and it still does not work.
grandwizard
Member
Hey, we already transitioned away from the existence of optional upgrades being super terrible once the PS4 Pro was announced. It was quite the humorous transition to see after seeing it fought about for the previous years.
Now you don't see that brought out as much to find some reasons why PC gaming is bad, and so that energy has folded over into the 'you have to tinker with everything!' argument.
Most of GAF's idea of PC gaming is similar to this
Most of GAF's idea of PC gaming is similar to this
Can confirm this is how it feels every time steam downloads something.
Personally it was a matter of me remembering how things used to be, instead of realizing how they actually are.
I built my first pc in a decade about 7 months ago. A decade ago I had to jump through hoops to get things to work properly, and frequently got frustrated. Minor tweaks lead to BSODs. Probably my fault, my self built computer never quite worked right.
Over the last seven months, I've had literally zero hoops. I have the GE Force Experience install/download new drivers. I have a harder time remembering which drive a game is installed on than making things work. Building my current PC was incredibly easy, and has worked flawlessly ever since.
I built my first pc in a decade about 7 months ago. A decade ago I had to jump through hoops to get things to work properly, and frequently got frustrated. Minor tweaks lead to BSODs. Probably my fault, my self built computer never quite worked right.
Over the last seven months, I've had literally zero hoops. I have the GE Force Experience install/download new drivers. I have a harder time remembering which drive a game is installed on than making things work. Building my current PC was incredibly easy, and has worked flawlessly ever since.
Jest Chillin
Member
I spent 45 minutes this morning trying to figure out why my external soundcard was bugged and forcing max volume through Windows (forcing me to only be able to control sound levels through individual applications). Couldn't figure out the issue and Google was no help.
So switch over to onboard sound was my only option to get Windows Volume control back.
It's an annoyance of convenience and doesn't ruin anything (except slightly lower sound quality) but this is the kind of thing that adds up over time.
So switch over to onboard sound was my only option to get Windows Volume control back.
It's an annoyance of convenience and doesn't ruin anything (except slightly lower sound quality) but this is the kind of thing that adds up over time.
Yeah, GTA 4 is by far hardest, GFWL is bitch on Win 8+.
Easiest is probably to drop xliveless, but you lose multiplayer. Else install GFWL from website.
Dunno if they updated GFWL included in game when they updated it last year, so it should actually work directly if they did. But at least it removed need for ini edits for modern GPUs.
Most of the problems people have with PC gaming are self inflicted. The first thing people fail to do is any damn research. You should spend at least 2-3 hours watching YouTube, skimming through Reddit, and of course, GAF. Put a parts list together, have it reviewed, modify, buy assemble. Yes, this is more effort than going to Best Buy and picking up a PS4... but if you are an adult... this shouldn't be more than you can handle.
DOAs for parts are prebuilt systems are very rare and easily remedied. The real key is taking your time and being methodical. If that is asking too much, there are now great pre built options like the Corsair One.
With that said, Nvidia needs to come up with a better driver installation solution. Display Driver Uninstaller should be a part of GeForce Experience's driver installation process. It would prevent 99% of driver issues and if automated with a script, idiot proof.
DOAs for parts are prebuilt systems are very rare and easily remedied. The real key is taking your time and being methodical. If that is asking too much, there are now great pre built options like the Corsair One.
With that said, Nvidia needs to come up with a better driver installation solution. Display Driver Uninstaller should be a part of GeForce Experience's driver installation process. It would prevent 99% of driver issues and if automated with a script, idiot proof.
I think his point is average people don't talk like that. People just want a PS4 or a iPhone or a galaxy. PC gamers talk up their hardware XYZ and their mods and their controller options and their steam link and this and that but then wonder why someone not in to PC gaming thinks that PC gaming is complicated. But even if you say you don't have to do all that the next question then is why wouldn't I just get a PS4/X1/Switch?
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I feel like I can articulate why I still feel this way about PC gaming pretty succinctly. I have a Surface Book, there is literally no custom anything going on here. Out of the box PC solution. I barely game on it, but when I do, it's either Hearthstone or Overwatch.
This machine has a dedicated GPU, and half the time it decides it doesn't exist. I'll boot Hearthstone only to find that it's chugging like mad because it's trying to render at 4k using integrated graphics. If I try to force it to use the card, my machine will helpfully tell me that the card does not exist. Only rebooting will fix it.
Overwatch, 100% of the time, will disconnect from the server during first boot and present me with a useless username/password screen. If I close it, then reopen it, it will connect the second time. This has been going on for as long as I can remember, and nothing has been able to fix it.
These are some of the most basic and popular fuckin games I could be playing, on a no-brain computer, and still I have to deal with this kind of trash on the regular. Don't even get me started on some of the Steam games I have, one can't render its HUD at the same size as the actual click targets for the HUD so everything is half-invisible and can't be interacted with, and another will often boot at twice the size of my monitor.
People like to talk about how PC gaming is so easy and solid these days and how people who think otherwise are just stuck in an ancient mindset that doesn't reflect reality, but this is my reality. This is how PC gaming has always been, and in my experience nothing has changed.
This machine has a dedicated GPU, and half the time it decides it doesn't exist. I'll boot Hearthstone only to find that it's chugging like mad because it's trying to render at 4k using integrated graphics. If I try to force it to use the card, my machine will helpfully tell me that the card does not exist. Only rebooting will fix it.
Overwatch, 100% of the time, will disconnect from the server during first boot and present me with a useless username/password screen. If I close it, then reopen it, it will connect the second time. This has been going on for as long as I can remember, and nothing has been able to fix it.
These are some of the most basic and popular fuckin games I could be playing, on a no-brain computer, and still I have to deal with this kind of trash on the regular. Don't even get me started on some of the Steam games I have, one can't render its HUD at the same size as the actual click targets for the HUD so everything is half-invisible and can't be interacted with, and another will often boot at twice the size of my monitor.
People like to talk about how PC gaming is so easy and solid these days and how people who think otherwise are just stuck in an ancient mindset that doesn't reflect reality, but this is my reality. This is how PC gaming has always been, and in my experience nothing has changed.