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[Jebusman]

I'm talking about if you have never built a computer before and don't even know what a motherboard is. Its a little overwhelming at first trying to figure out what the best combo is right for you and what is all compatible with it. If you're just copying someone elses build than yeah I guess its not that bad. Sure there are sites like PCpartpicker that help but you have to know it exists first, and also apparently even though it lists a wattage your computer consumes you should probably get at least 300 watts higher than that just to be safe. I almost bought a 400 watt power supply cause it said my computer would consume 220 watts but apparently you should at least get 550.

Alright, here's a bit of knowledge.

There is no hard rule about "300 watts higher".

It's just compensating for a possibility that you buy a power supply from a shitty brand.

If you have a system that consumes 220 watts, a 300 watt power supply would probably run it, if it's not some garbage brand.

If there's one thing people definitely overdo when they build PCs, they buy power supplies that have capacities WAY above their needs.

I mean one of the lowest models of PSUs that EVGA sells (400W) will still run the large majority of single video card systems out there perfectly fine.

 

[SapphiCine]

PC gaming requires troubleshooting. You will run into issues and it's a matter of when. The only way for PC gaming to be as close to console convenience is to have low standards and/or a very high tolerance for issues.

Gods help you if you want to play old games without trouble.

 

[Kayant]

Because it is.

Honestly, PC gaming could be sold with Apple's "It just works." slogan from my point of view.

- This is very misguided statement based solely on your experience.

Firstly using a PC yet alone building one can be difficult for some people understandably then is a reason why you can find some people in jobs that still don't know how to use basic email or other "simple" things using a PC.

Fact of the matter is there is there are multiple points in which issues can occur whether that be OS, game, drivers etc that unless you're tech savvy or know how to search well can be difficult to figure out.

There is of course still big misconceptions like the needing to upgrade each year(wish this will die already), before my time switching my main to PC but graphics drivers updates being hard, needing to constantly monitor things, issues happening constantly etc.

 

[DarkestHour]

Why are so many of GAF so ignorant about PC gaming? Most hardcore gaming forums aren't like this. There are so many gamefaq level stereotype posts ITT it's insane.

This is console-heavy site which is most likely the reason why. I've been seeing a lot more people getting in to PC gaming though here.

 

[Skyzard]

PC gaming requires troubleshooting. You will run into issues and it's a matter of when. The only way for PC gaming to be as close to console convenience is to have low standards and/or a very high tolerance for issues.

If you can maintain a PS4/XB1 as a regular gamer, you can maintain a pc. ie use google. take deep breathes etc

 

[Jaguar Victory]

I won't, but surely at the point you were looking at custom built liquid cooling using special bespoke tools that took a substantial lead period to complete you must have realised that you are venturing deep into specialist enthusiast territory?

Yeah. Looked really damn awesome. I get your point.

 

[LordRaptor]

Water cooling is a point of failure that I don't want to deal with.

water cooling fucked my rig, ruined my summer....

Like I said, the only water cooled gaming device I've ever owned was my JP Dreamcast (because thats surprisingly what it came with, and it didn't help with noise because the GD-ROM drive was a goddamn clicking whirring monster).

If I wanted a silent build, time and money is better spent on a good case and cable management / airflow, imo. Maybe pay a bit more and get a bit less performance with a passively cooled video card too.

e:

PC gaming requires troubleshooting. You will run into issues and it's a matter of when. The only way for PC gaming to be as close to console convenience is to have low standards and/or a very high tolerance for issues.

Gods help you if you want to play old games without trouble.

Its actually the literal opposite; if you are picky about performance, you do not want a console because you have zero control over performance, and are always stuck with whatever .ini settings the developer hardcoded into the game.
If you want to play a library of older titles, you do not want a console because you are locked into whatever BC or 'remaster' bones they may or may not throw you.

 

[fantomena]

 

[mxgt]

Why are so many of GAF so ignorant about PC gaming? Most hardcore gaming forums aren't like this. There are so many gamefaq level stereotype posts ITT it's insane.

My new favourite I've been seeing lately in these threads is seeing people describe needing to be "hunched over" to play games on keyboard and mouse.

Like I've never had to hunch over in my life playing PC games.

 

[GodofWine]

I just re entered PC gaming, and its not hard at all, i think its the option to tweak stuff makes people feel like they have too, when in fact games will pretty much pick ideal settings for you. I had PUBG running at 60fps with a mixture of high and low settings in about a minute on a g4560 1050ti build, yet people will complain it doesnt run well.


It's the tweakers who scare people.

 

[moltonasty]

So many embarrassing posts in this thread. This happens every single time there's a PC gaming thread on GAF.

I built my first custom PC back in the early 2000's, and PC gaming has come a long way since then. It's crazy simple these days, but some people just can't be bothered. That's fine, but don't act like it's so complicated. Barely no different than following directions for putting together a piece of furniture from Ikea.

 

[valkyre]

The only problem with PC for me (and yes I have tried it) is that I dont like gaming on a desk.

Yes yes yes I know I can hook up my gaming PC on my TV and home cinema and yes I know I can use a gaming controler instead of a K&M.

But this doesnt end the problems for me.

See, bringing your PC and hooking it up on your TV & Home cinema creates other problems. Like what am I to do if I want to use the computer for something other than games? I will sit on the living room table or even worse the couch and try to do work from there? Type a word document? Its inconvenient. The only solution to this is to get 2 PCs, one for work and one for gaming. Even then having that keyboard and mouse hang around in your living room (because yes I play with a gaming pad, but you need that keyboard and mouse close by) is not my cup of tea.

So my choice is to have a PC dedicated for work and a gaming console to plug and play.

 

[NeonBlack]

Oh I forgot to add, PC gaming doesn't have a monolithic corporation championing the platform and its games with expensive advertising the way consoles do. There isn't a single company getting consumers hyped up and turning them into loyal cheerleaders for a particular black box simply because it's made by a certain company.

You're right, we fanboy for gpu manufacturers.

The problem with PC for me (and yes I have tried it) is that I dont like gaming on a desk.

Yes yes yes I know I can hook up my gaming PC on my TV and home cinema and yes I know I can use a gaming controler instead of a K&M.

But this doesnt end the problems for me.

See, bringing your PC and hooking it up on your TV & Home cinema creates other problems. Like what am I to do if I want to use the computer for something other than games? I will sit on the living room table or even worse the couch and try to do work from there? Type a word document? Its inconvenient. The only solution to this is to get 2 PCs, one for work and one for gaming. Even then having that keyboard and mouse hang around in your living room (because yes I play with a gaming pad, but you need that keyboard and mouse close by) is not my cup of tea.

So my choice is to have a PC dedicated for work and a gaming console to plug and play.

You don't want a PC that's just for gaming but are ok with your console?

What the problem with the K/M in the living room?

 

[EGOMON]

I don't know why PC gamers trying to convince everyone else it is not I mean if that were true consoles should be dead by now

 

[MilkyJoe]

So many embarrassing posts in this thread. This happens every single time there's a PC gaming thread on GAF.

I built my first custom PC back in the early 2000's, and PC gaming has come a long way since then. It's crazy simple these days, but some people just can't be bothered. That's fine, but don't act like it's so complicated. Barely no different than following directions for putting together a piece of furniture from Ikea.

This difference is it's expensive, somewhat delicate and electrical. People therefore have preconceptions of it's difficulty and give it the swerve. They don't know it's like Lego, so would not even consider it. How do you think those sites sell pre-built PCs at a massive mark up?

 

[GeordieMark]

Consoles are obviously less hassle, but PC gaming these days is mostly easy. I hit the 'on' button, open Steam/Origin/Battle.net and click on whatever its is I want to play and that's it. With an SSD the process of getting into a game is actually quicker than it is on console.

Yeah, it can be frustrating when things go wrong, but unless you are pushing an ambitious overclock or have bad luck with a faulty component, it doesn't happen often.

PC are reasonably expensive machines so I would expect anyone buying one for the first time would do a bit of research first. If you are building your own, there are tons of build guides available depending on your budget that will tell you exactly what to buy and what to avoid. Stick with one of them and you avoid any compatibility issues.

 

[wildfire]

How can someone who "works in computing" be so wrong?

Is this one of those troll responses? It must be.

You say that snarkily but those guys who actually use those $2000 work stations at work and home aren't that tech savvy when it comes to building a PC either. Knowing how to program (especially if your someone who learns after getting years of experience in another field during your young adult years) or doing scientific research doesn't make you automatically knowledgeable on how to use a PC properly.


That's why the boutique PC market like Falcon Northwest, Digital Storm and Alienware combined has tens of millions of customers.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I wonder it sometimes too. Nowdays is very easy using a PC to play games. Things are very straight forward, and installing everything necessary is an easy process. Just put Steam on Big Picture, plug the Xbox Controller and have fun.

The only thing however that "sacres" me a little bit, is updating the machine. I have mine entirely from 2012. I don't know if there's anything I can / should keep the next time I upgrade it, or if I will need to buy another one entirely new. And that can be a laborious and pricey task for me, since I'll need to buy the hardware pieces separeted in one store in the internet, and asking a local one to set it up (I don't know if I can make it myself).

 

[Jebusman]

The problem with PC for me (and yes I have tried it) is that I dont like gaming on a desk.

Yes yes yes I know I can hook up my gaming PC on my TV and home cinema and yes I know I can use a gaming controler instead of a K&M.

But this doesnt end the problems for me.

See, bringing your PC and hooking it up on your TV & Home cinema creates other problems. Like what am I to do if I want to use the computer for something other than games? I will sit on the living room table or even worse the couch and try to do work from there? Type a word document? Its inconvenient. The only solution to this is to get 2 PCs, one for work and one for gaming. Even then having that keyboard and mouse hang around in your living room (because yes I play with a gaming pad, but you need that keyboard and mouse close by) is not my cup of tea.

So my choice is to have a PC dedicated for work and a gaming console to plug and play.

Typically for media PCs, if you desperately need a keyboard, people tend to grab stuff like this:

Relatively small, easy to put away, wireless, etc.

The typing experience is sometimes not that great, but for short bursts it does the job.

And if you have sometimes like Kodi setup (or you have Steam Big Picture autostart when you turn it on), you don't need anything other than a controller, unless you're playing a game with zero controller support.

In which case yeah playing with a PC at a TV is not "great".

 

[joecanada]

Depends what level of use you're going for . I've had sound driver issues , issues when flipping my screen back and forth from tv , games not working or not having Controller support on steam and I noticed you said plug in your controller. I also never got my Xbox wireless controller to work .

All stuff I've not worried too much but I've refunded three out of 10 games approximately on steam already.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The reality of playing on a PC is that you're occasionally going to have to troubleshoot a game that doesn't work or doesn't work properly.

I wouldn't say it's difficult. If you can google, you can generally get along fine most of the time. But despite developers releasing broken games, it's still generally more of a crapshoot on PC than on console.

Yep. And elitist PC gamers refuse to acknowledge that.

My best friend uses consoles for one reason. He knows full well that they will work when he puts the disc in.

That convenience goes a long way for most people.

 

[Proteus Maximus]

You have an intel processor and an nvidia gpu.

Now seriously, problems will happen more often with PCs, especially in cheap ones.

I bought an pre built 'budget' PC the end of last year and have not had any issues with it. As the TC says, it's basically plug and play. I love modern PCs, so much easier than they used to be a decade or two ago.

 

[pislit]

ive never seen a hobbyist or enthusiast message board so afraid and / or lazy to learn new things

 

[Jebusman]

My best friend uses consoles for one reason. He knows full well that they will work when he puts the disc in.

Considering the age of day 1 patches, buggy launch titles and straight up broken jank we get even on consoles, this statement doesn't ring so true anymore.

 

[pinballsummer]

The reality of playing on a PC is that you're occasionally going to have to troubleshoot a game that doesn't work or doesn't work properly.

I wouldn't say it's difficult. If you can google, you can generally get along fine most of the time. But despite developers releasing broken games, it's still generally more of a crapshoot on PC than on console.

Well said. Best reply to the original post I've seen.

 

[wazoo]

ive never seen a hobbyist or enthusiast message board so afraid and / or lazy to learn new things

Console gamers are afraid of PC gaming and mobile, so they will just try to downplay them.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Honestly, I think the experience in the OP is atypical. I don't like fiddling with settings and drivers, but I've had to to get games to work. To the point of manually editing files. I also had to set a custom fan profile to keep my PC from overheating when 4K gaming.

 

[Filben]

When I see friends and family members, who are the complete opposite of being tech-savvy, installing things without care, unchecking toolbar options and use software that is supposed to 'speed boost' your PC I understand where that attitude of 'it's too much tinkering' comes from. It's not hard, like one posted on the first page, like cooking or car mechanics. But they haven't been there, haven't done that. It's some kind of witchcraft for some people and this won't happen on a console.

You also have an 'OS' or user interface where you work EVERYTHING from. On PC you have the first layer which is Windows. Then you have, depending on the game Steam, Origin, Uplay or even another layer, another separate launcher. Damn, many games still today won't start with your monitor's native resolution. And for many of my friends and family members don't know anything about resolution, they heard the term full HD and don't even know it's 1920x1080/1200, it really can be a problem to go to the options menu. Why should they if they don't know it from console games where your typical only visual/graphic option is brightness. So they play and wonder in one case about shitty graphics and in another case about bad performance.

For us, using forums like these it's basic stuff like common sense. For many it is not.

With steam and Nvidia auto updating many things it definitely got easier and more convenient but for plug in and play people it's still too much. Because then you have Windows that screws things up from time to time and you have to solve that first in order play further (multi monitor support is still shit these days). Sometimes things just don't work, most of the time due to the user. Options give opportunities and since most people won't use a PC SOLEY for gaming but browsing, porn, shopping, installing stuff and so on, problems will occur.

Sometimes I really appreciate the plain user interface of my PS4 and have everything 'out of one hand'. But then I can't even take a screenshot from a Netflix show or Blu-ray movie I'm looking and I start to love my PC and gaming there again.

 

[kubev]

I don't think PC gaming is that bad if you approach it traditionally, that being at a desk and with a mouse and keyboard, with a controller nearby for games that prefer it. PC gaming is terrible (in my opinion) if you go for the living room experience right now. There's too much work involved. If you want to play games primarily with a controller, then PC isn't the way to go unless you want to do a lot of tinkering. There are just too many problems with adapting a lot of PC games to something resembling the console experience.

Some of my biggest gripes:

- Devs letting you play a game with a controller, but not letting you control menus with a controller.
- Devs not hiding the mouse pointer when you use a controller. More obnoxiously, devs centering the mouse pointer each time you enter a map/menu.
- Dodgy controller management and support. I hate that fact that so many games won't detect your controller because of the order in which the controllers happen to be assigned on PC. I can't have my media remote plugged in and expect most games to work properly with a separate controller.
- Manually adding shortcuts for non-Steam games so you can launch them from Steam Big Picture Mode.
- Steam Big Picture Mode isn't particularly stable.
- Subtitles (or other HUD elements) scaling with the resolution and becoming completely useless at 4K resolution.
- Too many in-game settings without a quick and convenient means of testing them.

 

[ZZMitch]

I've been playing on PC as my main gaming platform for almost 8 years now and have never had to do anything more complicated than put in a new graphics card (which is dead simple). I now own a pretty powerful gaming laptop and pretty much the only "tinkering" I do is update my Nvidia driver every couple of months (literally just download + install) and change graphic settings if a graphic intensive game has low fps. Never had any problems.

 

[pinballsummer]

I bought an pre built 'budget' PC the end of last year and have not had any issues with it. As the TC says, it's basically plug and play. I love modern PCs, so much easier than they used to be a decade or two ago.

oh...just you wait

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Considering the age of day 1 patches, buggy launch titles and straight up broken jank we get even on consoles, this statement doesn't ring so true anymore.

Contrary to popular belief it's extremely rare to have a completley broken/unplayable console game on release. It rings true far far far more often than PC games.

Even so, patches are downloaded automatically on console. REequires little no how from the user.

 

[Ryuuroden]

The best reason I can think of is a lot of people just want to go out and buy something to game with. On just a glance view of pc options it can seem like there are dozens of equally viable options for each component you could use to make a PC. If you buy a prebuilt gaming rig, you still can have dozens of options you need to decide on. For someone trying to get into it it feels like you need to do a ton of research to get the best bang for your buck. It can be much more comfortable for a person to look at consoles and see oh I only have to choose from 3 different options.

Like I was a PC gamer for a long time, in fact I didn't own a new console since my gamecube until I bought a PS4 pro this year. I always looked into reviews of motherboards and graphics cards and such and even though I know it's pretty standard once you look deeper into it, I still spent time looking for where I could get the most longevity and most upgradability and also best sales. I spent a bit more time on it. When I got my PS4 it pretty much decide I'm getting a PS4 and ordering it. There was nothing else to factor in, not even trying to find deals on it was nessesary due to well a pretty much standard price. It's not like I could go well this PS4 has one more additional SATA ports that I could use but doesn't have this other thing I'm looking for, etc while this PS4 has this extra thing that could be useful.

It's like putting a person in an ice cream store with a million options and they are told they will like every flavor, telling them they can only choose one thing and they have limited time to choose. A good number if given time would choose something new but if you don't have enough time to choose that same person would pick something safe they are familiar with even though they were guaranteed they would like any of the flavors. It's not a great analogy but what I'm trying to say is people when they can't make a choice or when overwelmed with choices will gravitate toward something with fewer choices because it's easier?

Anyone who plays on a PC knows that it's gotten to a point where you could pretty easily with little research and time get a gaming rig that will do everything you want it to do but just taking a cursery glance at it, the options might seem overwelming.

 

[Jebusman]

Even so, patches are downloaded automatically on console. REequires little no how from the user.

I mean the large, large majority of games on PC also do this. Outside of some random ass janky .exe you downloaded from some random website, if you have a PC game, it likely autoupdates.

 

[wazoo]

- Devs letting you play a game with a controller, but not letting you control menus with a controller.
- Devs not hiding the mouse pointer when you use a controller. More obnoxiously, devs centering the mouse pointer each time you enter a map/menu.

A dev problem,not using properly the tools.

- Dodgy controller management and support. I hate that fact that so many games won't detect your controller because of the order in which the controllers happen to be assigned on PC. I can't have my media remote plugged in and expect most games to work properly with a separate controller.

Right.

- Manually adding shortcuts for non-Steam games so you can launch them from Steam Big Picture Mode.

Steam is for steam games. you can not add games not on PSN to PSN list as well.

- Steam Big Picture Mode isn't particularly stable.

No opinion.

- Subtitles (or other HUD elements) scaling with the resolution and becoming completely useless at 4K resolution.

Would be the same on console.

- Too many in-game settings without a quick and convenient means of testing them.

So, no settings is better ? Default settings (low, high, ultra) works well most of the time. Some settings are also quite difficult to test without context.

 

[Lister]

Even so, patches are downloaded automatically on console. REequires little no how from the user.

Same on PC... in fact this has bene a thing on PC since way before console games had it.

 

[pinballsummer]

Have you 'PC just works!' people ever tried to boot up an old GTA game recently? Let's see how that goes

I just did that over the weekend, thinking it would 'just work'. Lemme tell ya' - was quite fun getting all of my GTA games to JUST LAUNCH.

Again - I ain't complaining. Just not denying any of the issues consolers don't have to deal with that PC gamers do.

 

[ss_lemonade]

PC gaming has been fine for me like 90% of the time. The other 10% have been real headaches though and I can see how those issues can turn some people off PC gaming if encountered. One example is I bought Alone in the Dark: A New Nightmare recently and just found out that the game does not work out of the box on Windows 10. If you want a more newer game example, Resident Evil 7 had what looked like broken HDR detection for my gtx 780, a GPU that doesn't even support HDR in the first place. I can only hope that Capcom has released a fix for this since I last played the game

 

[JimboJones]

Contrary to popular belief it's extremely rare to have a completley broken/unplayable console game on release. It rings true far far far more often than PC games.

Even so, patches are downloaded automatically on console. REequires little no how from the user.

See I think PC gamers have different standards for what is considered "broken" a PC game running at 25fps or even 45fps would be cause for alarm where thats an A ok experience on consoles.
A minute and a half loading times, people would be considering dumping there HDD.

Have you 'PC just works!' people ever tried to boot up an old GTA game recently? Let's see how that goes

I just did that over the weekend, thinking it would 'just work'. Lemme tell ya' - was quite fun getting all of my GTA games to JUST LAUNCH.

Again - I ain't complaining. Just not denying any of the issues consolers don't have to deal with that PC gamers do.

Right, try putting that PS1/PS2/PS3 GTA game in your PS4

 

[Animagne]

Have you 'PC just works!' people ever tried to boot up an old GTA game recently? Let's see how that goes

I just did that over the weekend, thinking it would 'just work'. Lemme tell ya' - was quite fun getting all of my GTA games to JUST LAUNCH.

Again - I ain't complaining. Just not denying any of the issues consolers don't have to deal with that PC gamers do.

'PC just works!' people only play new games to justify spending money on their rig that bruteforces through all of the issues.

I never had issues with launching, but getting anything else to work (like a controller or windowed mode) is a nightmare with steam that updates everything to the latest patch.

 

[Abilidebob]

Have you 'PC just works!' people ever tried to boot up an old GTA game recently? Let's see how that goes

I just did that over the weekend, thinking it would 'just work'. Lemme tell ya' - was quite fun getting all of my GTA games to JUST LAUNCH.

Again - I ain't complaining. Just not denying any of the issues consolers don't have to deal with that PC gamers do.

I mean, have you tried inserting a San Andreas PS2 DVD into a PS4?

 

[Lister]

Have you 'PC just works!' people ever tried to boot up an old GTA game recently? Let's see how that goes

I just did that over the weekend, thinking it would 'just work'. Lemme tell ya' - was quite fun getting all of my GTA games to JUST LAUNCH.

Again - I ain't complaining. Just not denying any of the issues consolers don't have to deal with that PC gamers do.

You're right, I'm almost 100% certian that you would not run into ANY issues tryign to play an old GTA game on a PS4.

 

[pinballsummer]

PC gaming has been fine for me like 90% of the time. The other 10% have been real headaches though and I can see how those issues can turn some people off PC gaming if encountered.

This.

 

[Shari]

Contrary to popular belief it's extremely rare to have a completley broken/unplayable console game on release. It rings true far far far more often than PC games.

FUD.

Also the tolerance for "completely broken" is not the same on pc as it is on consoles.

I mean, have you tried inserting a San Andreas PS2 DVD into a PS4?

Oups.

 

[Lister]

'PC just works!' people only play new games to justify spending money on their rig that bruteforces through all of the issues.

I never had issues with launching, but getting anything else to work (like a controller or windowed mode) is a nightmare with steam that updates everything to the latest patch.

At this point I'm just hoping you're joking.

 

[Iorv3th]

I think one of the biggest problems for casual users is that they download so much shit that runs in the background and they don't know how to uninstall. That or buy prebuilt machines that aren't made for gaming and expect to be able to play everything on it.

I work in IT and can't believe the amount of people that install just junkware with coupon toolbars, mcafee while having other antivirus, etc. So all this extra shit running and eating up resources which contributes nothing to their user experience. But they don't know how to clean it up. Or how to not get the shit on their in the first place.

 

[jim2point0]

Actually, you know what STILL drives me insane to this day?

"You must restart the game for these changes to take effect."

Fix your shitty engine.

 

[pinballsummer]

You're right, I'm almost 100% certian that you would not run into ANY issues tryign to play an old GTA game on a PS4.

Are all old GTA games available in the PS4 store? Or PSNow? And there are issues with getting the games to launch? Or was this quote a failed attempt at sarcasm 'cuz ya know 'a PS2 game doesn't work in PS4' (LOL!)

Cuz they are in the Steam store. I downloaded GTA 3, Vice City, San Andreas and GTA 4 all from the Steam store this past weekend.

Let me tell ya - not one of them worked. I think it took about 30-45 minutes just to get them to launch.

 

[Animagne]

At this point I'm just hoping you're joking.

Not joking about steam being shit with older games, not letting to downgrade the version. A lot of mods or unofficial patches require a clean installation without patches, including GTA games.

 

[JimboJones]

At this point I'm just hoping you're joking.

It seems to be lost on people that they can potentially use ANY controller on the PC, yes it may take a bit of configuration but it can be done.

But if you really want an easy time just buy a goddamn wired 360 controller lol.