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[Chichikov]

because porn you have to get licenses and shit and sign up with the irs and you know what the government loves that

prostitution tho? Making money without the government having a piece of it? NOT ON THEIR WATCH!

I'm sure if the government could guarantee ALL prostitution would go through them, they would legalize it. But countries too big.

That's a weird thing to say.
The government can collect taxes from prostitution like they do from any other person, and in places where prostitution is legal like Nevada, brothels require licenses. If anything, making it illegal makes it harder for the government to collect taxes from it.

Prostitution was banned in the US for moral reasons, and since it's America, it also had a dash of racism.

 

[Imperfected]

Not really, no. The SC was pretty clear about not regulating private sexual acts between adults.

Some states my still have laws on the books, but they wouldn't hold up in court.

I feel like you're projecting the reality of living in a non-shit state onto all states, and ignoring the fact that many states are, in fact, total shit.

 

[Matt]

I feel like you're projecting the reality of living in a non-shit state onto all states, and ignoring the fact that many states are, in fact, total shit.

I'm not. Lawrence v. Texas, anti-sodomy laws are unconstitutional.

You want to show me an example of such a law being enforced in recent times?

 

[Azoor]

Doesn't the banning of prostitution makes sex trafficking easier? I'm just curious.

 

[Imperfected]

I'm not. Lawrence v. Texas, anti-sodemy laws are unconstitutional.

You want to show me an example of such a law being enforced in recent times?

I'm saying in a more general sense that Texas has probably tried to pass or illegally enforce five unconstitutional laws or more this week, or at the very least tried to find that many loopholes to de facto generate a situation where a constitutional right has been violated (see also: complete removal of abortion clinics).

So when you say "passing a law prohibiting production of porn would be unconstitutional" my thinking isn't so much that you're wrong, but rather that a lot of deep red states wouldn't particularly care and would find some other means to regulate, litigate, or just plain neglect the situation away.

 

[devilhawk]

I think cam shows even blur the line even further. You can pay someone (or a couple or group) to have sex while on camera. Just that you aren't in the room. But what if you were? What if you paid a girl through the cam site to have sex with you on cam? The laws are way too outdated to deal with these issues.

 

[CorrisD]

In the UK Prostitution is legal, you can pay for and sell sex, it's just everything else surrounding it that they have made illegal, standing on street corners, brothels and such.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Politicians don't want the competition.



And yes, it should be legal with strong regulation and protective measures.

 

[hodayathink]

A blanket ban, maybe, but you can obviously heavily curtail the content that can be produced (as states are still allowed to have sodomy laws, and I believe even adultery laws in some states) to the point where producing it in-state is effectively illegal.

Probably take a gander at Utah and see what they've done on the matter, as if anyone's gone full crazypants it would be them.

Utah declared a porn a public health crisis, but as far as I know they haven't actually banned pornography from being produced in the state in any meaningful measure. People don't produce porn in Utah for the same reasons people don't produce TV shows or movies in Utah, more or less.

I think cam shows even blur the line even further. You can pay someone (or a couple or group) to have sex while on camera. Just that you aren't in the room. But what if you were? What if you paid a girl through the cam site to have sex with you on cam? The laws are way too outdated to deal with these issues.

The law isn't really that ambiguous. Having sex is legal. Paying two or more people to have sex with each other on camera is defined as being art-worthy enough to be protected by the first amendment. The only theoretical grey area is basically when the person putting up the money decides to also be having sex, but it's been pretty much decided that it's still first amendment protected in that case.

 

[Symphonia]

let's do both and see what happens

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

 

[Matt]

I'm saying in a more general sense that Texas has probably tried to pass or illegally enforce five unconstitutional laws or more this week, or at the very least tried to find that many loopholes to de facto generate a situation where a constitutional right has been violated (see also: complete removal of abortion clinics).

So when you say "passing a law prohibiting production of porn would be unconstitutional" my thinking isn't so much that you're wrong, but rather that a lot of deep red states wouldn't particularly care and would find some other means to regulate, litigate, or just plain neglect the situation away.

Enforcing such laws would be impossible, and way more trouble than it's worth because, again, they would be unconstitutional.

There is juice in anti abortion efforts for politicians. Anti sodomy and anti porn laws don't really have that, and since the SC has ruled on these issues pretty definitively, there is no chance of winning.

Again, if you want to actually point out a recent use of anti sodomy or porn laws, feel free.

 

[Donos]

Besides it beeing N.America, it's probably harder to regulate and more open to abuse then porn. If some pimp "sells" a 16 yo to some guy, it's rather in privat and more hidden compared to a video where a lot of people see it and can complain about the under age actor.

 

[NiteChylde]

because porn you have to get licenses and shit and sign up with the irs and you know what the government loves that

prostitution tho? Making money without the government having a piece of it? NOT ON THEIR WATCH!

I'm sure if the government could guarantee ALL prostitution would go through them, they would legalize it. But countries too big.

Why shouldn't the USA be able to legalize prostitution?

Other countries, like Germany, have managed to properly legalize prostitution. No matter if we are talking about brothels, street prostitution or whatever, a lot of professionals in Germany are exactly that: professionals. If they are a business, they pay the respective business taxes etc, if they are employed, they pay income taxes, social security taxes etc - as other businesses or employees do.

Of course, we still have our fare share of illegal prostitution, especially when it comes to street prostitution, but that's a completely different topic. There are enough companies who illegaly conduct business without being in the prostitution or porn business, be it tax fraud or whatever. These problems must be dealt with on another level.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Prostitution really needs to be decriminalized and regulated. It is, of course, not going to fix all the problems. You'll still have black market prostitution for people who have STIs or people who are underage. But at the very least, by having a safe means by which for someone to do sex work, you help ensure a lot of people who want to go into it can do so safely.

 

[devilhawk]

The law isn't really that ambiguous. Having sex is legal. Paying two or more people to have sex with each other on camera is defined as being art-worthy enough to be protected by the first amendment. The only theoretical grey area is basically when the person putting up the money decides to also be having sex, but it's been pretty much decided that it's still first amendment protected in that case.

What are the regulations on cam shows compared to porn? Seems the only thing required for cam shows is to report the earnings on taxes.

 

[Neander]

Nevada is the only state in which prostitution is in fact legal. Ironically, it is illegal in Clark County (which houses Las Vegas) and also illegal in a few other Nevada counties. I say ironic because more money is spent on prostitution in areas of Nevada that are illegal than in those that it is legal.

 

[dafortune]

Nevada is the only state in which prostitution is in fact legal. Ironically, it is illegal in Clark County (which houses Las Vegas) and also illegal in a few other Nevada counties. I say ironic because more money is spent on prostitution in areas of Nevada that are illegal than in those that it is legal.

It's legal in those other counties because the populations are so sparse an organized crime boss was able to buy elections by providing food and cheap housing to a small group of people in the 70's. Thats the only reason.

 

[hodayathink]

What are the regulations on cam shows compared to porn? Seems the only thing required for cam shows is to report the earnings on taxes.

As far as I know, cam shows are covered under the same first amendment laws that porn is. The fact that it's streamed and not taped doesn't have any bearing on anything.

 

[OraleeWey]

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

The experiences of European countries who have legalized it as well as Australia and New Zealand should be mostly a model for the regulation of prostitution to be honest. It's not a panacea to all the problems surrounding it but it being out in the open and regulated will make it easier to focus much more resources on tackling human trafficking. There should be a safe environment promoted so people who willingly get into it out of their own personal choice can do it safely and victims of human trafficking can also feel safe enough to come forward and get help and to get the perpetrators dealt with.

 

[Budi]

Politicians don't want the competition.



And yes, it should be legal with strong regulation and protective measures.

Prostitution really needs to be decriminalized and regulated. It is, of course, not going to fix all the problems. You'll still have black market prostitution for people who have STIs or people who are underage. But at the very least, by having a safe means by which for someone to do sex work, you help ensure a lot of people who want to go into it can do so safely.

Absolutely this, having it illegal and sweeping it under the rug wont help or protect anyone. It only makes it worse.

 

[Alx]

The issue with legalization of prostitution and porn shouldn't be about the link between sex intercourse and money, but in the nature of the transaction between the "service provider" and the client.
In prostitution people pay to get private access to an individual's body, which is considered an immoral abuse of said individual by the law. In porn people pay to attend an "artistic performance" which happens to be of sexual nature.

As a matter of fact the question of whether prostitution should be legal or not is closer to wondering whether surrogacy should be legal or not.

 

[Izuna]

Yup

 

[SomTervo]

"Why should prostitution be illegal. Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal? You know, why should it be illegal to sell something that's perfectly legal to give away!?"
-George Carlin

Prostitution is illegal in many countries where I honestly think it shouldn't. It should be regulated heavily as hell, but I honestly believe that prostitution can and should be legalized so that both men and women who do it can be protected under the law better with healthcare and easier access to police in case of abuse. Pimps would be illegal while brothels would be able to be inspected for safety and health regulations, workers there can be checked for citizen status and prevent therefore human trafficking. People who wanna buy sex will have a safe place to go and will have to bring a doctors certificate of being free of STDs which further protect women and men in the business. Plus you could start taxing it, which would bring in untold millions of Euros that are otherwise lost.

.

 

[big_z]

So when porn stars escort on the side can they claim it's research for upcoming roles?

 

[HeatBoost]

I'm kind of struck by how odd it is for someone to wonder why America is weird and has fucked up double standards about aaaaaaaaaaanything related to sex

I mean, I'm sure there are extenuating circumstances on a per case basis, but in general: cuz they're kinky repressed weirdos

 

[BassForever]

Honest question

How does lega prostitution ensure that the clients aren't carrying an std which could spread through both workers and clients like wild fire. Porn its probably easier to regularly test performers between shoots.

 

[BrassDragon]

Honest question

How does lega prostitution ensure that the clients aren't carrying an std which could spread through both workers and clients like wild fire. Porn its probably easier to regularly test performers between shoots.

We provide free and frequent access to specialized clinics for sex workers, combined with education and availability of protection. It's not rocket science.

 

[MCN]

How about legalizing porn and prostitution, and banning porn and prostitution, at the same time.

So... Schrodinger's Law?

 

[dreamcastmaster]

So when porn stars escort on the side can they claim it's research for upcoming roles?

A lot of porn stars earn more from the side gig. The porn is just a trailer.

 

[Primethius]

Because porn generally does not have girls under 18 working or women being forced to work against their will to the extent prostitution does?

What a dumb question. The last thing America needs is legalized prostitution with the state of the human and sex trafficking industry.

 

[Daedardus]

Prostitution is illegal in many countries where I honestly think it shouldn't. It should be regulated heavily as hell, but I honestly believe that prostitution can and should be legalized so that both men and women who do it can be protected under the law better with healthcare and easier access to police in case of abuse. Pimps would be illegal while brothels would be able to be inspected for safety and health regulations, workers there can be checked for citizen status and prevent therefore human trafficking. People who wanna buy sex will have a safe place to go and will have to bring a doctors certificate of being free of STDs which further protect women and men in the business. Plus you could start taxing it, which would bring in untold millions of Euros that are otherwise lost.

I agree with this post. It's comparable with legalising weed, where we place an absurdly illegal practice under regulation so that we know when it happens, it happens within safe bounds. It can also make sure that only protected sex is allowed, with condoms being compulsory. I'm pretty sure prostitution still happens in the US, but I don't want to know the conditions those people are working in.

Because porn generally does not have girls under 18 working or women being forced to work against their will to the extent prostituion does?

What a dumb question. The last thing America needs is legalized prostition with the state of the human and sex trafficking industry.

If you regulate prostitution correctly, nobody would be working against their will and sex trafficking would still be forbidden.

 

[Keasar]

Honest question

How does lega prostitution ensure that the clients aren't carrying an std which could spread through both workers and clients like wild fire. Porn its probably easier to regularly test performers between shoots.

It doesn't ensure safety, but like I mentioned in my post, with legalized prostitution you could require a doctors certificate saying that you are free from STDs when visiting a certified brothel. The workers then would also be regularly checked, you would have a client list that tracks who have visited who (incase of a STD breakout) for easier contact etc. (kept private of course only for doctors for sake of consumer discretion).

Plus, protection would still be a requirement of course.

Nothing is perfect, but it would be a better system than keeping it illegal and having people just fuck all over the place and spread the diseases anyway where there is no possibility to contact authorities due to risk of being arrested.

 

[Chichikov]

Because porn generally does not have girls under 18 working or women being forced to work against their will to the extent prostituion does?

What a dumb question. The last thing America needs is legalized prostition with the state of the human and sex trafficking industry.

Legalizing prostitution will dramatically reduce the number of underage girls working and the number of abuses in general.

When you make it illegal you make it hard for the girls to reach for authorities for help. And of course, there are not a whole lot pro-active efforts to enforced a safe work environment (which is something that is possible with prostitution).

 

[Primethius]

I agree with this post. It's comparable with legalising weed, where we place an absurdly illegal practice under regulation so that we know when it happens, it happens within safe bounds. It can also make sure that only protected sex is allowed, with condoms being compulsory. I'm pretty sure prostitution still happens in the US, but I don't want to know the conditions those people are working in.



If you regulate prostitution correctly, nobody would be working against their will and sex trafficking would still be forbidden.

LMAO

This never happens in any place in the world that prostitution has been legalized or decriminalized.

In places where prostitution is legalized, sex and human trafficking increase. It never amounts to more protection for the women. And it always results in more women being trafficked into the country.

"Legalized prostitution" is largely a pipedrewm that doesn't match up with most data.

Legalizing prostitution will dramatically reduce the number of underage girls working and the number of abuses in general.

When you make it illegal you make it hard for the girls to reach for authorities for help. And of course, there are not a whole lot pro-active efforts to enforced a safe work environment (which is something that is possible with prostitution).

See above. Places that have legalized it haven't found much success in any of this.

 

[Renekton]

I remember a Scandinavian country banning prostitution not because of conservative morals but because they say it tends to promote victimization of women.

 

[Primethius]

I remember a Scandinavian country banning prostitution not because of conservative morals but because they say it tends to promote victimization of women.

Yes, because it does. There have been a couple of studies that show that legalizing prostitution increases the sex trafficking industry to meet the increase in demand. It has precisely the opposite effect of helping women then the goal intends. All your doing is helping the businesses that sell the women.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Nevada seems to make it work

 

[Spuck-uk]

Prostitution really should be legalised, it being illegal just makes the business so much more dangerous for the men and women involved.

This is what happens when you have a country run by people that think sex is immoral.

 

[StayDead]

let's do both and see what happens

Modern day prohibition. People will have to go to Speakeezies to get their porn fix.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

How much do you tip a porn actress?

 

[Primethius]

Nevada seems to make it work

Not for the women they don't. Lots of women in Nevada are still handled by pimps (state-run pimps), don't see their salary and generally want to get out.

 

[HappyPuppy]

*slow clap

The grin on his face xD.

 

[Primethius]

FYI, the only country (or at the least, one of the few) that has laws that I remember studies pointing to a positive impact on women in the profession is Sweden.

Where it's illegal to buy sex but not illegal to sell sex. A law which atleast attempted to tackle some of the underlying problems.

 

[Chichikov]

See above. Places that have legalized it haven't found much success in any of this.

Human trafficking did increase in the European countries, nor did it manage to stamp illegal prostitution, that is true.
But conditions for legal sex worker have improved, dramatically.

I don't know why it failed to achieve those goals in Europe, but my guess it's an implementation issue, maybe over-regulation causing legal options to be more expensive or just not available enough, maybe better enforcement is required, but I still believe that's a policy that can work and even in the short term can provide a dramatic improvement in the life of some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

We tried prohibition for over a century, and I think we have ample evidence that it doesn't really yield good results.

p.s.
I'm basing most of my knowledge from this paper, which AFAIK is one of the most comprehensive analysis of the effects of legalization and decriminalization.
If you have other sources, do share them.


Edit: I should also probably state that I generally against criminalizing of prostitution on a philosophical/moral level, but I don't think I'm dogmatic enough to not be able to change my mind based on evidence.

 

[firehawk12]

I forgot who mad the joke that you can make prostitution legal by just filming it and calling it porn. lol

 

[andythinkpad]

Same reason Japanese porn has mosaic on the pussies.

 

[BrassDragon]

As someone who was involved in fighting organized crime in the Netherlands, I'd like to nuance the notion that legalization of prostitution leads to more trafficking.

It actually leads to more DISCOVERY of trafficking because guess what, suddenly sex workers become way more cooperative and willing to fight excesses in their world.

Opponents of legalization, particularly outside of our country, love to cease on this phenomenon to enforce their archaic notions of how human trafficking actually works in practice.

But I guess a lot of people just find the idea so abhorrent that they'd rather have the abuses go underground and invisible so they don't have to deal with it.

 

[Cyrano]

I never understood that. People can get busted for prostitution but as soon as a camera is in play, somehow its okay to pay both (or more) actors for having sex.

History, and who Americans fundamentally are as a result of that history (i.e., conservative Christians who are going to purify the heathens - largely by means of genocide and slavery, and when that didn't work, economic slavery).

 

[MUnited83]

Because porn generally does not have girls under 18 working or women being forced to work against their will to the extent prostitution does?

What a dumb question. The last thing America needs is legalized prostitution with the state of the human and sex trafficking industry.

The only thing that is dumb is your statement. Even if you legalized prostitution human and sex trafficking would still be illegal. In fact, if anything, it will make human and sex trafficking less prevalent. With proper regulations and implementation, it will make the demand for sex trafficking less, not more. Have you actually thought about this for more than one second?
Nothing about your statement makes any kind of sense. Legalising prostitution, if anything, would make it easier for victims to go to the police.