ethomaz
Banned
There is no way SNES could handle DQVII.
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Why isn't the Dragon Quest series popular outside Japan?
- Thread starter ULTROS!
- Start date
encephalon
Member
I like the look of OG DQVII. Had the game not been 200 hours long, I would go back and play through the PS1 version.
He's make a "5th generation games look bad" post.
He's make a "5th generation games look bad" post.
Earthpainting
Member
I don't think he means it quite that literally. It was probably more of a jab at the low-quality PS1 3D being less desirable to more matured 2D visuals. I know I prefer the DQVI look over the VII one.
Yeah, I can't really hold it against him either. He contributed more than his share. High expectations for his successor though.
LordBaztion
Member
I'm not a fan of classic JRPGs but I like some of them. However, it's art style kills any interest I may have on the franchise.
I like dragon ball z but DQ's art direction is more akin the the original series which I'm not too fond on.
I like dragon ball z but DQ's art direction is more akin the the original series which I'm not too fond on.
mrmickfran
Member
I think it's kinda of bizarre that it's not popular in America considering the Dragon Ball like character designs.
I remember being interested in DQVIII when I was a kid just because I always thought it was a Dragon Ball game lol
I remember being interested in DQVIII when I was a kid just because I always thought it was a Dragon Ball game lol
Lightning Lord
Banned
I said that because DQVI was a very pretty game, which was on the SNES, compared to VII. Then they went to VIII which was a very nice looking game for the PS2.
VII is a wonderful game and one of my favorites, but the PS1 version is not a looker by any means outside of the monster animations. Saying it looks like an SNES game is laughable.
What.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
I can't even. I cannot. Sugiyama's work is immediately recognizable. You may not like its "personality", but it makes no sense to say it has none.
DQ music are pieces made by a classical trained composer inspired by the classical and romantic period.
The lack complexity won't make it a facade, just like the light use of orchestra in many italian Opera (in the name of "cantabilità") won't disqualify their categorization into the broad term "classical music".
I don't think at all that more intricacies would have yield better results for the Dragon Quest series instead of more simple and hummable tunes especially when one realize what hardware would have played those tunes!
It's easily recognizable in the field videogame OSTs, yes.
In particular the Dragon Quest main theme is regarded by many as a sort of secondary japanese anathem.
Lunarwhale
Member
What exactly makes you say it's mediocre?
Design, story, music, gameplay... That should be enough.
Arc Christelle
Member
Because they won't sell that shit outside of Japan unless it's exclusively on a Playstation console, with a random courtesy to the 3DS.
If you haven't seen it before, DQ 8 might be worth a quick look.
I agree most of the others felt like Dragonball rather than DBZ, partly because of the "chibi" proportions, but 8 has full figures. It even has a sort of chi styled "psyche" system.
Unless you meant monster design, then it's closer to Dragon Ball throughout the series.
moltonasty
Member
Definitely. FF wasn't popular outside of Japan either until FF7. Since DQ never really had that huge mainstream title, it stays niche.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
No marketing and barely any visibility outside Japan because SE doesn't seem interested in pushing the series outside Japan. Plus Enix missed the boat of the JRPG boom with poorly timed releases of DQ7 and 8. IMO VII was just a terrible introduction to a series that hadn't seen a release here in nearly a decade, longer for those who were already moving or moved on from the NES by 1992. DQ7 might've been the worst PS1 RPG experience that wasn't an SRPG, I can count the number of SRPGs I like on one hand. I enjoyed others in the series (my first was III I think but I liked VI with the translation patch from what I can remember) but 7 was a monotonous bore, I gave up on it for a year before I went back and finished it.
Define popular, are we using Square's ridiculous expectations? Both FFII/IV and especially III/VI were very popular in what was a niche genre. They might not have done VII numbers but it's what drove the initial hype for VII.
After the first two games, each episode consistently sold more than 3 million units in Japan with the exception of DQV which is slightly below.
The peak is DQIX with about 4.5 million unit sold.
DQ has consistently innovated on gameplay mechanics within JRPGs, to the best of my knowledge.
DQ2 was the first JRPG I know of that contained the entirety of the predecessor's region within it. (Sort of like Pokemon R/B inside G/S).
DQ3 had to my knowledge the job system that lets you change jobs feely / master multiple jobs. Also the first to have a day/night cycle unless you count Zelda 2 as a JRPG. I think different monsters would come out at night, but for sure dialogue and available quests changed from day to night.
DQ4 had the first AI controlled characters that fought by your side (for more than a brief battle). Storywise, it may be the first with multiple character threads that get interwoven.
DQ5 had the first monster recruiting/raising. It went on to inspire Pokemon. (Edit: while DQ5 was the first game released and it likely influenced Pokemon, Pokemon's creator mentioned a different inspiration dating to 1990). DQV was also the first JRPG to (story spoiler)
unfold across multiple generations.
phantasy star III
DQ6, I'm not aware of any major milestones but it's not exactly my favorite. Was this the first JRPG to have a casino with complete minigames?
DQ7 was late to the party. I still like it but no gameplay innovations come to mind.
DQ8, at least in my mind, was the first "open world JRPG". By this I mean many JRPGs had world maps, but virtually all of them were on a different scale (often the characters are the size of cities). In DQ 8, proportions are roughly maintained -- your characters enter the city and are the same size. Some other more linear games might technically have this feature (Earthbound or some of the SaGa games perhaps), but DQ8 really gives the sense you can travel anywhere in the world that you can see.
DQ9 may be the first turn-based JRPG to allow for multiple system co-op (I believe online as well as local).
There are more story "firsts" as well but I don't really want to spoil any, plus there might be some obscure game I don't know that did it sooner.
I would argue DQ may feel "generic" because what it does, it does well, and typically gets copied elsewhere.
Dragonball is often times associated with DBZ in he US and aside from art style it brings along with it the over the top action and destruction etc. it's not just art style. It's a full package. So while it may share some of the art that DB(more dragonball art than DBZ art and design)has, it doesn't share the other stuff
I've only played I(mobile), IX, parts of IV before I quit, and DQM: Joker. I do have a small list of complaints of things I don't like.
The music sucks. It reaches levels of ehh to straight up annoying. Do you know what my least favorite part of DQ1 was? Every battle this awful theme starts playing. Tbh I even dislike the main theme. Yes there are some good songs scattered around but the OSTs as a whole of what I've played are pretty forgettable to me and sometimes I actively dislike the music. Like looking at at gameplay for DQ11, this music does nothing for me , both the field and battle music.
I also dislike the accents written in to the games. I just find them generally annoying.
Stories in those games were really not anything special and they feel super generic. DQ1 is the only one that gets a pass because of age.
Gameplay is a bit unexciting as far as turn based games go.
I should play more in the series to see why people like them so much. I'm excited to try XI when it comes out and I need to get VII and VIII. Would also like DQMJ3 but that's never coming. From what I've played they are mostly good games but nothing special about them.
Of course there are other problems why it's not popular dealing with square enix and how they have treated and marketed the series.
The music sucks. It reaches levels of ehh to straight up annoying. Do you know what my least favorite part of DQ1 was? Every battle this awful theme starts playing. Tbh I even dislike the main theme. Yes there are some good songs scattered around but the OSTs as a whole of what I've played are pretty forgettable to me and sometimes I actively dislike the music. Like looking at at gameplay for DQ11, this music does nothing for me , both the field and battle music.
I also dislike the accents written in to the games. I just find them generally annoying.
Stories in those games were really not anything special and they feel super generic. DQ1 is the only one that gets a pass because of age.
Gameplay is a bit unexciting as far as turn based games go.
I should play more in the series to see why people like them so much. I'm excited to try XI when it comes out and I need to get VII and VIII. Would also like DQMJ3 but that's never coming. From what I've played they are mostly good games but nothing special about them.
Of course there are other problems why it's not popular dealing with square enix and how they have treated and marketed the series.
The story complaints don't surprise me, but they give me the strongest reaction, I think. Some of the moments in Dragon Quest games have affected me more emotionally than any other game story. The issue seems to be that some people focus entirely on the overarching story and pay no mind to the dozens of stories you encounter throughout the games. Dragon Quest games are like a collection of short stories rather than a novel.
This is another thing that DQ11 has changed, though, so I hope that everyone who has beef with the series gives it a shot... because it's made with you in mind.
This is another thing that DQ11 has changed, though, so I hope that everyone who has beef with the series gives it a shot... because it's made with you in mind.
I'm also not a fan of the accents, except maybe in 8 as it has voice actors that nailed it.
I also agree 9 and DQM Joker both have boring stories at best.
For better stories, I would suggest giving 8 or maybe 5 for a spin if you have interest. Import impressions sound like XI also has a good story but we'll see if that holds up.
7 is nice but I think the story structure may not be to your liking. Its closer to 4 in that you get to see a lot of little stories.
I don't think there's anything in the other games that will likely change your mind but IX and Joker have possibly the two least interesting stories in the series
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
It's like the exact definition of mediocre. There is nothing remotely interesting or exceptional about it. Battle system, gameplay mechanics, story, characters, writing, graphics, production values.
Only area where it sometimes really shines is with music, but this is true of most JRPGs.
There's also the point that the stories are crafted to be enjoyed by people of all ages. A lot of the vignettes feel like fairy tales and if you don't like those you won't enjoy the games much. I love them but can understand why people are turned off.
Maybe not a first but how DQVII tackle the time travel mechanics I felt was more impactful than CT.
Visiting an island in the present really feel like many years has past since when you helped the island in the past (although without a civilization advancement).
In Chrono Trigger the various ages felt more like a setting change that gave variety to the game while at the same time allowing the developer to play a vignette (not surprisingly since Yuji Horii was behind the game).
There are some puzzle around the time travel in CT but the bigger benefit was how different the game looked through each ages.
The other peculiarity of DQVII is that it's setup as an adventure game more than a standard JRPG.
This is evident from the slow start, the absence of monsters in the overworld in the present, the emphasis on puzzles etc.
Oh while Dragon Quest V was the first JRPG that introduced monster catching, the Pokémon concept predates it.
In fact the project began life in 1990 under the title Capsule Monsters.
However Pokémon (as many other RPG of those years like Mother) is heavily inspired by the template introduced by Dragon Quest.
Petrae
Member
I've tried to play a few Dragon Quest games, and I never get too far.
-- Having to check in at churches to learn about experience points and/or to level up is annoying as fuck
-- Difficulty curve is uneven, with a fair number of early deaths while trying to grind
-- The story pacing takes too long to get me interested
The Final Fantasy games (until XII) were far more enjoyable for me to play.
-- Having to check in at churches to learn about experience points and/or to level up is annoying as fuck
-- Difficulty curve is uneven, with a fair number of early deaths while trying to grind
-- The story pacing takes too long to get me interested
The Final Fantasy games (until XII) were far more enjoyable for me to play.
Yeah, I feel like some enjoy RPGs primarily for the main plot, which is fine. I think the strong success of FF also set this sort of expectation.
DQ reminds me a bit more of (a much simpler) Witcher 3, where the side stories are often the most fun or touching parts of the game. You have less player agency for the story and the writing is simpler, but you do get to see the world from multiple viewpoints.
If it's any consolation, your posts over the past decade have kept me interested in DQ, which has slowly wormed its way into my heart.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
I think XI will do pretty well when it's releasing over here next year. The games on DS sold decently enough to pull together a notable fanbase in the west, it's just that, since those days the only big installment was an MMORPG which already limit's it's user base. Oh yeah, and it didn't come out in the west.
Well, there was that and a bunch of spin offs and the VII remake for 3DS, but the 3DS install base isn't nearly what the regular DS install base was when those DQ games came out over here.
I got into the series pretty late, but I thought the stories and characters were very charming and the music...I dunno, it's the kind of music that makes you go "Eh..." if you just go and check out some songs on Youtube, but it really works in the game.
Well, there was that and a bunch of spin offs and the VII remake for 3DS, but the 3DS install base isn't nearly what the regular DS install base was when those DQ games came out over here.
I got into the series pretty late, but I thought the stories and characters were very charming and the music...I dunno, it's the kind of music that makes you go "Eh..." if you just go and check out some songs on Youtube, but it really works in the game.
For some reason I had never connected Horii to CT. I mean I knew about Toriyama but now I understand better why DQ7 felt in some ways like a spiritual successor to CT. Thank you for sharing.
Interesting note about capsule monsters! I suppose it's possible that DQV simultaneously developed it, since IV shipped in early 1990 and development started soon after... But since Satoshi mentioned a different inspiration, I will edit it. It also seems possible to me that Horii caught wind of Capsule monsters and added the feature to DQV late in the cycle, but I don't know enough about the development of DQ games.
The story complaints surprise me. Been a while now since I played any DQ game, but I've been surprised by DQ games a number of times by the contrast between how mature the story can be compared to the childish graphic designs (and JRPGs in general these days). Not that the stories are great from start to finish, but there are some really brilliant moments here and there. Especially in 4, 5 and 8 IMO.
DQ7 is a bit of a drag though, the story is just too damn slow. They are all a bit slow at first, but DQ7 is on another level.
DQ7 is a bit of a drag though, the story is just too damn slow. They are all a bit slow at first, but DQ7 is on another level.
How old are you?
In the '80s and early '90s, when Dragon Quest's popularity took root in Japan, game companies worked their hardest to cleanse Japanese games of the anime look when bringing them to the west. Anime was still a weird, foreign thing that stunted sales.
You've got this:
Vs this:
If they'd kept the Japanese box art, the game would have sold even less.
1) This only exists in the DQ games with job/class changing.
2) Walk through the plains, not the forests or mountains.
3) Don't spend so much time grinding and start talking to villagers.
At the price of "free with a Nintendo Power subscription" I don't think too many people cared about what the box art looked like.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Phantasy Star III did that first back in 1990. DQV came out in 1992.
Hey, that's how I got my copy.
But the realty of the day was if you went into the electronics section to look at their wall of games, not a single game on a single shelf had anime-style boxart, even if the game was of Japanese origin. Even games with very clear anime-style in-game art.
The lackluster localisation efforts have been noted, but in regards to the artstyle, I think getting rid of the toriyama box art, and the marketing that goes along with that, was definitely a big mistake early on.
When I was younger I had no experience with dragon quest due to being European, but when I walked into a store one day and saw DQ8's boxart, I was like WOW. I was instantly sold on both the scope of the game, and also how adorable slimes are. (I'd go as far to say that the cuteness of slimes can be universally appreciated on some level by many cultures, and this holds true for a lot of enemies in dragon quest. I'm only slightly exaggerating.)
The American boxart for DQ1 does not sell me on the cuteness of slimes. Or the dragons for that matter. Or the scope of the game. Or anything. 9 year old me would not impulsively buy/rent a game with that boxart, it kind of stinks.
This isn't to say that DQ should be sold with 30 second adverts consisting solely of slimes being cute (... Although maybe it should), but the marketing is certainly missing a trick by focusing on the concept of a basic JRPG, or "Look at all these anime swords people". Because that alone is not really capturing the full appeal of DQ. Imo.
When I was younger I had no experience with dragon quest due to being European, but when I walked into a store one day and saw DQ8's boxart, I was like WOW. I was instantly sold on both the scope of the game, and also how adorable slimes are. (I'd go as far to say that the cuteness of slimes can be universally appreciated on some level by many cultures, and this holds true for a lot of enemies in dragon quest. I'm only slightly exaggerating.)
The American boxart for DQ1 does not sell me on the cuteness of slimes. Or the dragons for that matter. Or the scope of the game. Or anything. 9 year old me would not impulsively buy/rent a game with that boxart, it kind of stinks.
This isn't to say that DQ should be sold with 30 second adverts consisting solely of slimes being cute (... Although maybe it should), but the marketing is certainly missing a trick by focusing on the concept of a basic JRPG, or "Look at all these anime swords people". Because that alone is not really capturing the full appeal of DQ. Imo.
The Dragon Warrior box art was for American kids at the time. You've also gotta take into account that the Dungeons & Dragons aesthetic was the height of fantasy RPGs then. A 9 year old would have been baffled by the Toriyama box art. Cute slimes? Cute didn't belong in a world like that. Cute was a repellent.
Times change, tastes change.
The world is a scarier place than I could have possibly imagined.
Yeah you're probably right. I maintain that it doesn't do a good job of selling the essence of the series though.
Sporadic western release schedule, poor advertising, SE not willing to keep any positive momentum rolling even when one starts getting popular. Also I think the best parts of DQ (the storytelling and gameplay balance) are hard to communicate in brief advertisements, unlike something flashier sich as FF, Persona, or Tales.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Story is usually rubbish.
Renegade Frost
Banned
Lack of interest from Square Enix to try and make Dragon Quest popular in the west is the main reason
Skittzo0413
Member
Did you enjoy it?
One of my top 5 games of all time, though definitely not for everyone.
Fbh
Member
As someone who got into games during the Ps1 era Dragon Quest just never looked very appealing, specially compared to other Square games like Final Fantasy.
- FF had those mindblowing (at least for me as a kid) pre rendered backgrounds and overall awesome visuals while DQ7 looked more like SNES game
- In FF you fought 3D enemies with cool animations and over the top summons (not all of which holds up that well today but back in the day it looked amazing). In DQ7 you don't even see your characters and you fight static 2D sprites.
- FF looked way more appealing in its world and setting. DQ7 looked like another game set in a generic fantasy world of knights and castles.
- In Chrono trigger you have a robot and a frog warrior and a prehistoric woman, and basically magic dracula, etc. In FF7 you have a talking dog, a guy with a giant sword, another one that has a machinegun arm, some badass vampire-type dude, a Ninja. In Dq7 you have a boy, an older boy, a girl....another girl...some older guy. As a kid there just wasn't even a comparison between the 2.
I honestly just preffered to spend my time on Final Fantasy and Chrono Cross and vagrant story and legend of Dragoon and Xenogears, etc. Not to say that they are better games but in those years they all appealed way more to me.
Then in the Ps2 era I tried to get into VIII but I still couldn't. It just al felt so bland and generic from the characters to the story and particularly the world. I played it for at least 25 hours and can't really remember a single memorable city, place or character in that game.
- FF had those mindblowing (at least for me as a kid) pre rendered backgrounds and overall awesome visuals while DQ7 looked more like SNES game
- In FF you fought 3D enemies with cool animations and over the top summons (not all of which holds up that well today but back in the day it looked amazing). In DQ7 you don't even see your characters and you fight static 2D sprites.
- FF looked way more appealing in its world and setting. DQ7 looked like another game set in a generic fantasy world of knights and castles.
- In Chrono trigger you have a robot and a frog warrior and a prehistoric woman, and basically magic dracula, etc. In FF7 you have a talking dog, a guy with a giant sword, another one that has a machinegun arm, some badass vampire-type dude, a Ninja. In Dq7 you have a boy, an older boy, a girl....another girl...some older guy. As a kid there just wasn't even a comparison between the 2.
I honestly just preffered to spend my time on Final Fantasy and Chrono Cross and vagrant story and legend of Dragoon and Xenogears, etc. Not to say that they are better games but in those years they all appealed way more to me.
Then in the Ps2 era I tried to get into VIII but I still couldn't. It just al felt so bland and generic from the characters to the story and particularly the world. I played it for at least 25 hours and can't really remember a single memorable city, place or character in that game.