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Why Silent Hill 4 isn't in Silent Hill HD Collection

Typographenia said:
It looks great and all, but it's almost an exact retread of SH1; from locations, story, characters, and even themes to a degree. It's just far weaker than SH1 or SH2 (even 4) was in terms of what it brings to the table.


edit: If you mean in regards to the cult, maybe. I have never liked the cult, and the more ambiguous, background role it plays the better. How it is used in SH4 is far more effective than how it was used in 3, in my opinion. It gives context to the development of characters and events, but it isn't in your face like it is in SH3.
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The narrative of SH1 and SH3 were focused on more than the cult but I see what you mean. Silent Hill 3 is an absolute and totally direct sequel to SH1 and continued the story, ended it really, of the original cult.

I have NO idea why Origins get's the hate it does, hell the opening alone was better done than just about anything in Homecoming.
 
Acquiescence said:
SH2 > SH:SM > SH1 >>> SH3 > SH:H > SH:TR

Never played Origins. Could never really muster the interest to do so.
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I recently just played it for the first time. It's not a long game. Took me five hours at most, and that was with getting stuck on one of the puzzles.
 
I don't think I've ever ranked the games as each one has something memorable (be it good or bad) about it.

With that said I'd have to go: 2,1,homecoming,3,shattered memories, origins, 4
 
although it probably won't make a lick of fucking difference in the grand scheme of things, I've decided to vote with my wallet this time.

No sale for this kind of bullshit. Not just for SH4. It's the principle of the whole fiasco.


Konami can eat a bowl of poop. I'm not rewarding them for their incompetence with this series any more. Downpour will be a rental, Book of Memories or whatever the hell is called will be completely skipped. I still have my original SH2-4 copies and I still have a functional BC PS3.
I might give it a shot again if CLIMAX gets another crack (or in the off-chance miracle that Konami brings some of the old Silent Hill Team back)- but Hulett can go take a long walk off a short pier with "what the fans want".
 
I Push Fat Kids said:
Didn't you like Heavy Rain?
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LOL

TruePrime said:
I'm just making all kinds crazy statements in this thread.

Seriously though, I do recoginze that Silent Hill 2 and 3 are great games don't get me wrong.

I just think that SM is a better game over all and I enjoy the story far more.
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Thats because it is.
Squirm haters, squirm like little piggies.
 
TheChillyAcademic said:
The narrative of SH1 and SH3 were focused on more than the cult but I see what you mean. Silent Hill 3 is an absolute and totally direct sequel to SH1 and continued the story, ended it really, of the original cult.
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It actually follows SH1 almost exactly. There's some things mixed up and a couple of differences, but it's very similar.

SH1- Car crash, wake up after a dream of death in a diner, meet cop, meet Dahlia, School, Hospital, sewers, amusement park, nowhere, fight god.
SH3- Wake up after a dream of death in a diner, meet P.I., meet Claudia, mall/subway, sewers, hospital, amusement park, church, fight god.

TheChillyAcademic said:
I have NO idea why Origins get's the hate it does, hell the opening alone was better done than just about anything in Homecoming.
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Because the whole stuff with the Otherworld makes no sense for Travis or in the timeline for Alessa. It's just a mess, and the story should have wholly focused upon Travis. It would have been a much stronger game had they left well enough alone, but they needed a hook for it.

Grisby said:
With that said I'd have to go: 2,1,homecoming,3,shattered memories, origins, 4
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You have a bizarre ranking list. I like you.

TheJollyCorner said:
Konami can eat a bowl of poop.
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eww
 
after a long time deliberating I decided that I like 3 more than 1, but only because 3 was the first game I played the series and it really grew on me. Even if it's not the best Silent Hill games, it's still one of the best horror games of the ps2 era.

edit: I guess that would make my list: SH2 > SH3 > SH1 > SM > 0rigins > Homecoming.
 
Cruzader said:
Nailed it.
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Not really - they are already doing 3 games for $40 in the MGS collection, and that series shits on SH from a far distance in terms of how much money they can milk out of the fans. I think it comes down to laziness and admittance that SH4 is a chapter that Capcom would rather forget.
 
shidoshi said:
Don't blame them for knowing how to make girls look hot!
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K' Dash said:
To me, Heather
Cheryl
is so HOT, that I literally get a boner with every posted picture.

No kidding.
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Tylahedras said:
Ditto, or to put it another way... If she's dirty I don't want to be clean.
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K' Dash said:
Well, there are pictures of Heather here.



It works like viagra, lol.
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.



The protagonist and playable character of Silent Hill 3 is Heather, the teenaged adopted daughter of Harry Mason.[
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she looks about 13...
 
Typographenia said:
They probably just like a game that had a more original narrative than the rest of the games in the series, or that it isn't a retread of the first game. Or they're diehard HenryxWalter fans. It tends to be one or the other.
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i really did love the concept of 4, and what it was going for, but it just didn't deliver on those things, i thought. to each their own.

shidoshi said:
Those putting 3 > 1...man, what is going on today. Team Silent weeps, from somewhere.
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I KNOW RITE

its my fault for replaying 1 a while back; it was fucking brilliant when it all started, but didn't hold up nearly as well as i'd hoped. 3, however, feels criminally underrated here.
 
SH4 is still on my "have to finish someday" list. Which is kinda weird considering SH1-3 are my favorite games ever, just not really into SH4
 
Typographenia said:
It actually follows SH1 almost exactly. There's some things mixed up and a couple of differences, but it's very similar.

SH1- Car crash, wake up after a dream of death in a diner, meet cop, meet Dahlia, School, Hospital, sewers, amusement park, nowhere, fight god.
SH3- Wake up after a dream of death in a diner, meet P.I., meet Claudia, mall/subway, sewers, hospital, amusement park, church, fight god.
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I found the parallels to be somewhat heavy handed but I imagine done with intent. The themes followed closely but the exposition as well as the visuals added to the overall experience of the game.
 
Hey, if you were in some other dimension being chased around by monsters and shit you'd look dirty, tired and unkempt too.
 
legacyzero said:
http://www.youtube.com/twinperfectchannel#p/c/87676CF7D0B816B4/24/gvcs-9lSm64
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Ugh, they just won't go away...
I apologize in advance.


Notice: the views or opinions expressed below may or may not be what I actually like to think on the series. I'm just poking the things they hold up as being truths that are irrefutable with a stick.


1. People just left!
No, I'm sorry. A town with its roots based in tourism doesn't have everyone magically decide to leave. If they really left because of it's "deadly dark past" or whatever, there would be some kind of effort to figure out why.

2. People were removed from reality.
Wait, this makes more sense than a layering effect or "other dimensions" of the otherworld? What the? If they really just disappear for the "nightmare" stuff to go on, does the include the entire world's population? I find it hard to believe that an entire town's population to go missing for periods of time unnoticed is highly unlikely. The folks at Brahm's are probably not sitting around saying "Yup, those silent hill people keep flickering in and out of reality again. Bunch of hippies."

3. People absorbed by power of the town.
Yeah... Then why are some people not absorbed? Is the otherworld just really picky like that? To what end would it serve the otherworld to absorb and then release the people? Why don't the people reappear when the otherworld disappears for a time? Where do they go?

4. Monsters only attack people in otherworld / Laura in otherworld & realworld.
Really? There's only the real world because Laura appears in both and doesn't get attacked? *sigh* Hmm, now why did Red Pyramid Thing attack James and not Angela/Eddie? Oh, right, because the creatures were there to punish James because they were manifestations of his character flaws. But wait, you say, what about Angela being attacked by the Abstract Daddy? Yeah, that was still relevant to her character flaws. Laura isn't attacked because I paid attention to the story.

Also, she appears in both because she's there with them all. Angela and James have that moment on the staircase that is so iconic with everything burning. Wait a minute... When did we have any burning imagery in SH2 before? Why did this suddenly happen? But this is the otherworld! Angela says "it's always like this for me." Wait... So is it possible then that we've stumbled into the manifestation of her otherworldly problems now? WHAT? But the real world and not other dimensions/otherworlds and stuff! NO! IT'S A LIE!
(Also, it made me laugh how "sh4 ruined the timeline by naming dates!" Make up your minds on what you're going to count as canon from konami already guys, please.)

5. There was a hole here, it's gone now.
"There was a physical hole here-" Wait, where did it say that it was physical? What the heck are they talking about? This has absolutely nothing to do with their argument...

6. Spiritual power.
"...the spiritual power can create or remove things or bend time and space just as easily in the real world as it could in another dimension. Which makes the other dimension an unnecessary complication."
Wait, the things you suggested about the town absorbing people or being removed from reality is a necessary part of a spiritual power doing this stuff? I don't see how this can be used against a layers/dimension theory and not against things they've suggested.

7. Harry visits Alessa's mind when he disappears.
Do they even listen to what they're saying? Since when did anything take place in Alessa's mind?

8. "It's being invaded by the otherworld."
Yeah, because Harry totally knows and understands what's going on. You can tell by the number of times he ends his sentences with a question mark or by counting the number of times he says "what?" Reliable source, confirmed!

9. "I know about the pleasures of this world."
Ugh... Why would Vincent bother to specify "this" if there is only one? Wouldn't he just say "the" instead?

10. Book of Memories part.
The "blurring the lines of heaven and earth" part is from a segment talking about the use of mist and darkness for the visuals of the game as well as working against technical problems.
I can see where that would be more useful than the page labelled "otherworld."

"Manifesting elements" They're putting words into the mouths of whoever wrote this. It never specifies in what realm of existence these things are being manifested. Nothing there saying the real world or not, but TP says "physically in the real world" regardless.

The wizard of oz and stuff from Alessa's mind doesn't back up their claims, it contradicts it. The creator's commentary actually states that the elements of her suffering and her past are what is manifested into the otherworld.

Being able to happen in places other than silent hill doesn't mean it's some projection of your mind on top of reality. Firstly, this goes against what they suggested earlier with the place of spiritual power. If the spiritual power from silent hill is necessary for some of these reasons they've been promoting to happen then why isn't it necessary now? Secondly, they're really, really putting their own spin on it. Nowhere does it mention or suggest if it is the real world. The writer is intentionally vague on that paragraph in BoM, suggesting more than one explanation, yet they would have you believe otherwise.

The reason things occur outside of direct silent hill in SH3 (which is what that part is referring to) can easily be explain by the cute little baby growing in Heather's tummy and/or Claudia's appearance. Not because Heather's brain decided it would be cool to project red everywhere while she wanders around a mall that emptied out because of spiritual power wanting to get first in line at the food court.

11. Doctor's notes in SH2.
Hooray, another reliable source! A man that practices medicine, in a facility aimed at standard medical practices, taking a medical approach to a seemingly medical problem. Can't see where there would be a problem with his notes being wrong!

12. Claudia enabling the shifts.
Yeah, no kidding she doesn't call the otherworld and have it do what she wants. There is the whole part where she kind of shows up and starts with the whole "you're turning 18, time for baby!" stuff, though. I can't imagine that the whole birthing god would have any sort of ramifications, though. Oh wait, they agree with that. Then what the heck are they doing on the other side arguing for the real world?


I honestly have zero issues with people believing one way or the other that there are or aren't other dimensions, layers, the real world with projections, or that it's all taking place on a hollywood set that aliens stole when they abducted Harry. I just hate how TwinPerfect takes one of my favorite aspect of the series (discussion, theorizing) and try to claim that what they believe is the only right way to look at the series.
Just for the record, the ufo endings are the canon endings, in my opinion. They're the most consistent of anything else in the games.


edit: oh yeah, silent hill 4 and stuff.
 
Kinda funny but I enjoy the first Silent Hill the most. I don't how crappy the graphics may be, IMO it adds to the creepiness. Silent Hill 3 would probably be my 2nd favorite but I only ever played the demo :( Guess I'll be getting this HD collection so that I can finally play Silent Hill 3!
 
legacyzero said:
LOL. You really don't like Twin Perfect huh?
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I don't mind them, I just hate that they insist on their views as being the only right way to look at anything.


They have decent video stuff, and they've improved over the short time they've been doing their stuff. The song at the beginning of that video you linked was also good. It's just unfortunate that they preach their opinions on the series as truths that we must all be enlightened by.
My favorite thing to do after playing a silent hill game is to go and see what other people thought. I don't give a rip about "was how I saw this the right way?" or not.
 
That sounds like a poor cop out. At any rate, I wouldn't know if I should feel good or bad about it, since I never got to play SH 4 (actually, I didn't get to play anything past the very first one). I bought it a few months ago, but 360 emulation sucked hard on this one, giving me weird artifacts at all times.
 
For what it's worth: SH2>SH1>SH4>SH3>Origins

TheChillyAcademic said:
I have NO idea why Origins get's the hate it does, hell the opening alone was better done than just about anything in Homecoming.
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I love the opening of the game. As in, the
CB voiceover concept and the walk/run through the town as the (excellent) soundtrack kicks in.
Origins has a lot of good ideas sprinkled throughout it.

But it has a hell of a lot of bad ones, too. Random stuff off the top of my head:

- Origins tells a story nobody needed to hear and which adds absolutely nothing of value to the series. On top of that, the writers don't know what they're doing.
Lisa's characterization (specifically her relationship with Kaufmann) makes zero sense based on what we already know of her, for example.
There was nothing to indicate that, and it just doesn't fit at all.

- As mentioned before by another poster, the cult should never be seen. It's not really interesting in and of itself (except to SH lore geeks). It's just less effective than leaving it to the imagination. Which is analogous to my feelings about the "main plot": it shows and/or explains too much, and it doesn't do a very good job of doing so. SH3 was unnecessary, but it handled the material well and didn't expose too much.

- The burning house scenario is more cheesy than anything else.
The seal magically appears to part the flames? Yeah, sure it does. That's just like the SH I know.

It might seem strange to call the earlier Silent Hill games "subtle," but the series is subtle in many ways other horror games are not, and the people at Climax don't understand that. Take the cutscene near the end of the game when
Alessa transforms the town in real-time as she starts fucking levitating.
Really, guys? Is that supposed to be some sort of badass payoff? It just comes off as silly and self-indulgent.

- Most of my problems are with the needless retread of the SH1 backstory once again, but even Travis's story isn't very well-written. It has it's good points, and the game would have been infinitely more interesting had it focused solely on Travis, but that plot has problems of its own. Like the "big reveal" in
the asylum level:
Climax so obviously tries to pull a SH2 twist there, but anyone with half a brain will see it coming. It's almost insulting the way they black out parts of the files you find like they're hiding some big secret from the player. (The second "reveal" involving
Travis's father
was a lot more effective.)

Travis's story also has almost nothing to do with the SH1-tangent stuff, which again makes me wish they has just been confident enough to let his story be the main one. But I'm sure marketing wanted what it wanted.

- The monster designs range from great
(the... "coupling" monsters in the motel area)
to okay (the boss designs, the generic human-ish creature that looks like a recycled basic design from earlier games) to uninspired and un-SH (everything else). I really appreciate that Climax didn't just fucking reuse Pyramid Head (I really do), but
The Butcher
is a lame design that basically fills the same role except it has no meaning. In fact, the suggestion that the creature designs have a deeper meaning is pretty clearly bullshit. Fans grasping to instill meaning where there was little or none, aside from "this looks like Silent Hill stuff."


I mean, the game has it's moments. When it all works, it really works. But those moments are few. It feels like halfway-competent fanfic, and that's really what it is. Worth playing, and I am glad I did play it, but a great game (or a great SH game) it is not.

I'm not going near Homecoming. SM I may get from the bargain bin someday, I guess. Only because Climax was behind it, and I didn't hate Origins.

IMO, if Climax gets their hands on the IP again, they need to tell their own story in the universe "Team Silent" created. Climax isn't going to match TS in terms of storytelling, and they need to do what they can to step out of their collective shadow and go do their own thing. And for the love of God, stop going back to the first game's plot!
 
TheChillyAcademic said:
I have NO idea why Origins get's the hate it does, hell the opening alone was better done than just about anything in Homecoming.
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That doesn't say much, pretty much anything is done better than anything in Homecoming.
 
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