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Opinion Drama Why Some People Hate TLOU2?

ethomaz

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Anybody that played the game (and it has the best completion rate of any game in PlayStation 4) can see:

  • The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.
  • The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next.
  • Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad).
  • The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection.
  • The enemy variety is now way better.
  • The weapons and craft items are way better than original.
  • The world and environment are fantastic.
  • Side activities are great.
  • It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven.

The game is everything a sequel should be.
It is a must to play even if you get down due violence.

So I really can't understand the hate some GAFers has with one of the best games ever created.

PS. I really can't even understand the political controversy... I really can't see politics in the game... maybe because I'm not American? I don't know.

Edit - Making this thread just me miss even more Factions MP... I blamed ND for that and I will continue doing that because that decision was utter shit.
 
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Abriael_GN

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Anybody that played the game (and it has the best completion rate of any game in PlayStation 4) can see:

  • The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.
  • The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next.
  • Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad).
  • The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection.
  • The enemy variety is now way better.
  • The world and environment are fantastic.
  • Side activities are great.
  • It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven.

The game is everything a sequel should be.
It is a must to play even if you get down due violence.

So I really can't understand the hate some GAFers has with one of the best games ever created.

PS. I really can't even understand the political controversy... I really can't see politics in the game... maybe because I'm not American? I don't know.

I welcome you to the arcane knowledge of the fact that not everyone has the same taste in games.
 
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Matsuchezz

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Probably because something they hate was included in their holly and sacred videogames where they "escape reality".
I understand that we all have different tastes, but in order to hate a videogame or a game director is such nonsense you need to be a little dumb or a big dumb.
 
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It’s a great game but I still disagree with the direction they took

abby and crew just aren’t compelling characters, the game only has one open section, and it goes on for far too long

just wasn’t paced to perfection and had some really odd narrative choices. Ellie at the end of the game was comically unbelievable

the gameplay is also hardly changed from tlou1. Sure, AI is massively improved, but the core loop is still the same and scouring for parts is...not fun.
 
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Snakeyes313

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  • The revenge cycle theme is fantastic. (Its terrible)
  • The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next. (The story is weak and predictable)
  • Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad). Abby and her pals are plain average
  • The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection. Gameplay is slow and clunky at times with the action sections too heavy.
  • The enemy variety is now way better. compared to what? seems very similar to the first game tbh
  • The weapons and craft items are way better than original. again all felt very much the same as the first game
  • The world and environment are fantastic. No doubt the look of the world is amazing and is by far the major plus point with the sequel
  • Side activities are great. great? not really, they are ok.
  • It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven. in all the wrong ways possible.
 

Senua

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I don't hate it but it was disappointing, mainly the playing as Abby stuff, I just never really connected with her, also it was too long. Gameplay is pretty great for what it is though
 

RedVIper

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The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.

It's cookie cutter shit. I can throw a rock in a bookstore and find a better "revenge is bad" story

The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next.

It failed at that.

Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad).

I didn't love the characters, and there isn't any significant development.

The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection.


The gameplay its fine, it's not groundbreaking, its not bad, its serviceable, which is kinda of the goal in a story focused game.

The world and environment are fantastic.

Sure, but it was amazing in the first one too.


Side activities are great.

I'm sure that what people are here for, side activities lol.

It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven.

It tries to humanize all sides in a very heavy handed way, it just didn't succeed for me.
 
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MiguelItUp

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  • The revenge cycle theme is fantastic. - I typically LOVE revenge themes, BIG time. (Adore Old Boy, love The Revenant, Drive, I Saw The Devil, John Wick, Lady Vengeance, etc. SO many.) As a result I was REALLY planning on adoring it because of this alone. But I wasn't happy with the way everything panned out. The ending also kind of left a bad taste in my mouth as well. I understand what they were trying to convey and why, but for me it just missed the mark.
  • The story is deep and keep you engaged to know what it will happen next. - It was for me until specific beats. I felt like the deeper I got in to the game, that urge to know was slowly being watered down. Played through to the end hoping for what DIDN'T happen.
  • Characters are great with it own complications with amazing development (I can't find one to be bad). - Honestly I felt like a lot of the characters were incredibly forgettable aside from the key ones. But there were a lot of characters that felt as if they were meant to be more important than they felt, and I didn't feel them at all, unfortunately.
  • The gameplay is again flawless... it is perfection. - The gameplay is totally fine, definitely had improvements over TLOU1, felt better. Personally I don't think it was flawless or perfection though.
  • The enemy variety is now way better. - I honestly didn't feel like there was enough variation.
  • The weapons and craft items are way better than original. - Definitely agree there.
  • The world and environment are fantastic. - They were definitely pretty, but I felt like the combat zones were vastly inferior compared to the areas you walk and talk through.
  • Side activities are great. - I thought they worked fine.
  • It humanizes all sides... it is impactful and emotionally driven. - Again, I just felt like they tried really hard with this. Sometimes too hard. For me it just totally missed the mark.
Also I shouldn't have to add this, but I feel it's required. While I was unhappy with Joel's situation, it didn't make me hate the game. Though I did wish it was handled better, I mean, it certainly could've been IMO. That being said, I would never say it's a reason why I feel the way I do about TLOU2.

Because there truly are people out there that don't agree, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't understand how that's so hard to comprehend. The VGA thread about Ghost of Tsushima winning became a dick measuring contest which was pretty embarrassing.

I can't speak on behalf of others, but I felt TLOU2 was a fine game. I thought the graphics and music were the strongest parts of it. There were definitely some cool gameplay changes, but nothing that stood out immensely. Also thought the AI was a toss up, sometimes it was better than the previous, sometimes it was worse.

In the end I loved the first game a LOT more, also played it multiple times, multiplayer as well. With TLOU2 I was done after one go through, though I watched other people's playthroughs as I was curious. Kept TLOU Remastered, sold TLOU2.

That's really all there is to it for me.
 
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Cert.in.Death

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Abby is the main problem.

Few zigs where I would have zagged, but the big gamble on switching the main character midway through the game kills its growing crescendo. Abby and all the characters surrounding her are forgettable, even though some of her gameplay segments are more compelling.
 

oagboghi2

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I am starting to hate TLOU2 fans much more than I hate the game.

Are people not allowed to dislike things anymore? I didn't like the new characters, I though the revenge theme was dumb, the decisions they made to previous characters was suspect, the gameplay didn't feel like a step forward, and ultimately I didn't care.
 

ethomaz

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People didn’t like one of the most beloved characters of last generation (perhaps all time gaming) being used as a simple plot device.
That is interesting...
Spoilers of course.

But Joel chanced... and that is one of the things you will realized pretty fast... Joel is not that helpless, depressive without reason to live like in the first game... he recovered part of what he lost and now he is again more like the father he was with fear, afraid, etc... he is now a human again... he is not that all in machine due the extreme circumstances he was in the first game... and that is something I really appreciate.

IMO the game nailed again his characterization.
 
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ShirAhava

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Everything outside of the core gameplay(which was good but not great) and graphics was really really bad
 
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That is interesting...
Spoilers of course.

But Joel chanced... and that is one of the things you will realized pretty fast... Joel is not that helpless, depressive without reason to live like in the first game... he recovered part of what he lost and now he is again more like the father he was with fear, afraid, etc... he is now a human again... he is not that all in machine due the extreme circumstances he was in the first game... and that is something I really appreciate.

IMO the game nailed again his characterization.

He deserved to be more than a golf ball
 

Dibils2k

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  • identical gameplay with more polish
  • majority of characters are bad and they die out of nowhere just to try to make you feel something for them
  • what character has great development?
  • time jumps hurt the flow more than help it
  • it isnt a revenge plot, its a plot about how revenge is an endless cycle and how perspective is important. nothing exciting or interesting really. would have been more fun if it was a revenge story
i felt only one scene surpassed the original in terms of dialogue and character interaction, and that was the museum scene. Everything else was just so forced
 

bender

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  • The revenge cycle theme is fantastic.

Not really. To use played out terminology from a few years ago, ludonarrative dissonance is rampant in the game. Ellie's body count is massive but she realizes the folly of revenge at the end to spare Abby? That didn't work for me at all. Speaking of things not working, I felt no attachment to Abby, her crew, or the failed attempt to recreate the Joel/Ellie dynamic with Lev. And that's not even mentioning the stupidity of character actions in the game or their motivations. For example: Tommy goes to Seattle by himself for revenge. A day later, Ellie and Dina go to Seattle to seek out Tommy and get revenge. A day later Jesse goes to Seattle to seek out Dina and Ellie and get revenge. I guess the world isn't dangerous anymore that they all made the trip safely and found each other. And let's not forget the other cast brining along Mel who is very pregnant and part of the Firefly medical staff. The is just too much stupid to mention.

Hate is way too strong of a word though. It's an okay game that is let down by it's narrative, cast of characters and their motives.
 

ethomaz

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It’s a great game but I still disagree with the direction they took

abby and crew just aren’t compelling characters, the game only has one open section, and it goes on for far too long

just wasn’t paced to perfection and had some really odd narrative choices. Ellie at the end of the game was comically unbelievable

the gameplay is also hardly changed from tlou1. Sure, AI is massively improved, but the core loop is still the same and scouring for parts is...not fun.
The pace is probably not perfect but I wanted more sections.

And I found Abby the best character in the game.
ND put the you in the role of the "villain" to show his intentions and why she is doing it... it is what humanized them... they are cleary not villains anymore.

The game pass a pretty good message about revenge and "heroes" vs "villains".
 

ethomaz

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  • identical gameplay with more polish
  • majority of characters are bad and they die out of nowhere just to try to make you feel something for them
  • what character has great development?
  • time jumps hurt the flow more than help it
Ellie, Abby, Joel... just to cite some... all characters were deep and have great development no matter how they died.
The death have it purpose too.

  • it isnt a revenge plot, its a plot about how revenge is an endless cycle and how perspective is important. nothing exciting or interesting really. would have been more fun if it was a revenge story
Yeap that is one of the best things the game did with the theme.
 

post-S

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-Character arc does not make sense, be it Joel, Ellie or Abby, none of them make convincing choices.
-combined with top notch gameplay and industry leading graphics/animation/performance, the previous issue just sticks out too much
 
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DForce

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Neil said most people who like the first game wouldn't like the second, so some level of hate is to be expected.

What's unexpected is that this has made some adults act like children. If someone hates a game, then they move on, but there are haters who just can't seem to let go.
 

ethomaz

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Abby is the main problem.

Few zigs where I would have zagged, but the big gamble on switching the main character midway through the game kills its growing crescendo. Abby and all the characters surrounding her are forgettable, even though some of her gameplay segments are more compelling.
I found Abby switch one of the strong points of the game.
The chance in perspective chances everything you build until there.... the story grow and you start to think in everything you were doing before.
 
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The pace is probably not perfect but I wanted more sections.

And I found Abby the best character in the game.
ND put the you in the role of the "villain" to show his intentions and why she is doing it... it is what humanized them... they are cleary not villains anymore.

The game pass a pretty good message about revenge and "heroes" vs "villains".

I think that ND failed in executing that plot mechanic because Abby is a completely forgettable character with no personality...she’s just there...

it would have been better if they made her less one dimensional, more interesting and relatable

the way the character looks and the voice acting performance is a big problem
 

Clear

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The sheer depth of the enmity some people have for the game is really striking. People like that arch-neckbeard fuckwit that presents himself as The Quartering are still making videos about it! Its incredible how long this thing has been living rent-free in their heads for.

The big laugh of course is the way the game is treated like some paragon of virtue signalling, a ludicrous statement given that by design literally noone in the game is shown as being truly virtuous! Its the entire point of the story after all.
 
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Abriael_GN

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That is fine.... not like something... now where come your hate for the game?

You're making silly assumptions which one normally sees in someone who is overly invested in a product and gets defensive about it. It was pretty evident yesterday with your sad bashing of another game (which is way superior, in my opinion) just because you were salty that more people voted for it in a popularity contest.

It's not for me because I don't care for zombie pandemic themes (and yes, they're essentially zombies). I do find the series as a whole quite overrated, but I understand its attractive for others, just as much as I understand how some may strongly dislike elements of the sequel, especially if they were very fond of Joel.

There are simply many way better games out there (and with a better approach to narrative, which doesn't need the crutch of shock and awe to pretend to be mature), for what I'm concerned, and it's certainly fun to see some people melting down when you face them with the simple notion that TLOU2 may not be the best game ever made.

I'll leave you with another nugget of knowledge since you seem to need it. People don't need a deep reason to dislike a game or even to hate it. It's entertainment. Some is good. Some sucks. Some react with excessive enthusiasm to entertainment that they consider good. Some react with strong negativity to entertainment they consider bad. Welcome to human nature.

On the other hand, I strongly disapprove when people hate people. So yeah. I'm absolutely fine with people hating TLO2. I am not with people hating Druckmann or anyone else at ND, as much as I consider him an overrated writer, but people will like what they will like, and that's fine.
 
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jshackles

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For the same reason I didn't care for Game of Thrones or a lot of other modern media. Gritty, drimdark shit with graphic violence and sexual content isn't how I choose to relax.
 

Spukc

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it's because they hate WAMEN

also OP it's ok when someone hates thing u like


it's my goty
 
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ethomaz

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You're making silly assumptions which one normally sees in someone who is overly invested in a product and gets defensive about it. It was pretty evident yesterday with your sad bashing of another game just because more people voted for it in a popularity contest.

It's not for me because I don't care for zombie pandemic themes (and yes, they're essentially zombies). I do find the series as a whole quite overrated, but I understand its attractive for others, just as much as I understand how some may strongly dislike elements of the sequel, especially if they were very fond of Joel.

There are simply many way better games out there (and with a better approach to narrative, which doesn't need the crutch of shock and awe to pretend to be mature), for what I'm concerned, and it's certainly fun to see some people melting down when you face them with the simple notion that TLOU2 may not be the best game ever made.

I'll leave you with another nugget of knowledge since you seem to need it. People don't need a deep reason to dislike a game or even to hate it. It's entertainment. Some is good. Some sucks. Some react with excessive enthusiasm to entertainment that they consider good. Some react with strong negativity to entertainment they consider bad. Welcome to human nature.
Wait... did you not played the game?
 

sobaka770

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Abby was divisive in her design and in addition she killed the beloved protagonist of the first game. So it's a double whammy - ugly woman murders Joel in cold blood and then you're forced to play as her, watch her have sex etc.
I say it triggered the people on the right pretty hard.

I loved the game and I think it's definitely the best game of the year so far, maybe of current generation even in terms of impact and themes and how it manipulated you into empathising with such a character.
But for those who can't it's tough, it's very tough. So yeah, it's a test of empathy and openness and if you don't have it in you you'll hate the whole thing.

ND could've avoided 90% of criticism if Abby was slimmer with bigger boobs (think Miranda from ME2) and I think most people know it subconsciously. But to me, that's the genious of TLOU2 because it forces you to hate her so very much.
 

MiguelItUp

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What's unexpected is that this has made some adults act like children. If someone hates a game, then they move on, but there are haters who just can't seem to let go.
Funny enough on that same coin if someone doesn't like the game they're typically dogpiled on by hardcore fans. Hell, even those that thought the game was fine, just not the second coming, like myself.

There's honestly just silly and radical trolls/fans on both sides really. It's ridiculous, lol.
 
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ethomaz

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For the same reason I didn't care for Game of Thrones or a lot of other modern media. Gritty, drimdark shit with graphic violence and sexual content isn't how I choose to relax.
I'm not sure about Game of Thrones because I read the books first and never finished the TV series (stopped at season 3 I believe because I want to read the story from the books).

I see no difference in the violence and sexual content between The Wither books and Games of Thrones.
I do love both.
 
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Revolutionary

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I didn't feel like there was much improved from a gameplay perspective at all. The only truly new addition is the ability to crawl which admittedly had an effect on the level design, but the core gameplay was virtually the exact same. When I played the first game, I was expecting improvements in the sequel like the ability to throw my melee weapon (at greater durability cost) when I can't find a brick/bottle, but instead it's... exactly the same. There were some neat setpieces though, for sure.

As for the story, it was poorly paced and poorly told. I think it could have worked better if it was completely rearranged, but as it stands, most players hate Abby from the very beginning and by the time they get to the theater battle, they have the urge to let her be killed by Ellie. It happened to me, it happened to my friends, it happened to 95% of streamers... if your first instinct is to kill your player character so that the "antagonist" of that scene can win, then you know you've fucked up as a storyteller.
 
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ethomaz

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Abby was divisive in her design and in addition she killed the beloved protagonist of the first game. So it's a double whammy - ugly woman murders Joel in cold blood and then you're forced to play as her, watch her have sex etc.
I say it triggered the people on the right pretty hard.

I loved the game and I think it's definitely the best game of the year so far, maybe of current generation even in terms of impact and themes and how it manipulated you into empathising with such a character.
But for those who can't it's tough, it's very tough. So yeah, it's a test of empathy and openness and if you don't have it in you you'll hate the whole thing.

ND could've avoided 90% of criticism if Abby was slimmer with bigger boobs (think Miranda from ME2) and I think most people know it subconsciously. But to me, that's the genious of TLOU2 because it forces you to hate her so very much.
I found myself sympathized with her reasons for the revenge.

While I loved Joel in the first game and I'm as a father should do the same actions he did without think twice... he become a monster... an emotionless killer machine.... that is why I appreciate even more how he recovered a lot of his old self in the second game... he found love again.
 
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THEAP99

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Everything you just said is true.

Definitely the best ps4 exclusive, can't wait for a ps5 patch factions. I can't wait to see what Druckmann does next
 

Abriael_GN

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Wait... did you not played the game?

I did, but not for personal enjoyment, and did not finish it because it overstayed its welcome. Maybe one day I might, but for now, it's back in the pile for the foreseeable future. There are plenty of games that I enjoy way more.
 
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Bladed Thesis

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The dialogue was awfully written. Broke so many moments for me, so many emotional moments meant to be emotional that fell flat. Every character interaction was pushed at you to be full of emotional but fell flat as soon as characters opened their mouths. Nevermind that very few character arcs make sense or even fit the world created much less reality.

Compared to the first, the game tries so hard to be edgy and relevent yet emotional and touching but the writing is so bad it just ruins all attempts. It's on "my face is tired" levels at times. Character flaws are exagerrated to comical levels yet presented as super super serious. It's all so laughable because its not a comedy but comes off as a joke. Very sad to see, especially after the great writing of the first game and its DLC.

8/10, gorgeous word, gorgeous environments but I'm not playing the game for the environments alone.