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[AniHawk]

The knife kept plunging deeper, too:

the rumor is, microsoft was in the market for first parties. they weren't looking to build their existing studios, but buy others outright. they bought bungie, tried to buy nintendo (and wound up with rare sometime later), and tried to buy sega. from what i can remember, sega backed out of the deal at the last minute, but were still contractually obliged to complete x amount of games for the platform. i wouldn't be surprised if peter moore was partially behind that move, especially considering the supposed animosity between sega usa and sega japan, and where peter moore went next (heading microsoft's japanese division).

so microsoft wound up with a bunch of exclusive sega games in long-running and popular series, and did jack shit to let the public know about them. sonic mega collection plus and nfl 2k3 were the only games on the xbox to sell over 300k copies in america.

 

[soultron]

I honestly haven't found much of anything on the system that I actually enjoy playing (I do like the original JSR). I'm not a fan of rythm games or fighters and Shenmue and Sonic Adventure have aged absolutely terribly. I kind of regret buying one, though I may try Skies of Arcadia sooner or later.

Only having one analogue stick means that most 3D-centric Dreamcast games have aged terribly, indeed.

 

[Gorillaz]

the rumor is, microsoft was in the market for first parties. they weren't looking to build their existing studios, but buy others outright. they bought bungie, tried to buy nintendo (and wound up with rare sometime later), and tried to buy sega. from what i can remember, sega backed out of the deal at the last minute, but were still contractually obliged to complete x amount of games for the platform. i wouldn't be surprised if peter moore was partially behind that move, especially considering the supposed animosity between sega usa and sega japan, and where peter moore went next (heading microsoft's japanese division).

so microsoft wound up with a bunch of exclusive sega games in long-running and popular series, and did jack shit to let the public know about them. sonic mega collection plus and nfl 2k3 were the only games on the xbox to sell over 300k copies in america.

Damn....did not know how much backdoor deals were made last gen.

 

[Rulp]

I'm gonna cry.

 

[PdotMichael]

After the Saturn + all the other Mega Drive failures is was obviously that people were not really interested in another Sega console.
The Dreamcast was a unnecessary console which almost killed Sega.

Bad management.

 

[Yasae]

the rumor is, microsoft was in the market for first parties. they weren't looking to build their existing studios, but buy others outright. they bought bungie, tried to buy nintendo (and wound up with rare sometime later), and tried to buy sega. from what i can remember, sega backed out of the deal at the last minute, but were still contractually obliged to complete x amount of games for the platform. i wouldn't be surprised if peter moore was partially behind that move, especially considering the supposed animosity between sega usa and sega japan, and where peter moore went next (heading microsoft's japanese division).

so microsoft wound up with a bunch of exclusive sega games in long-running and popular series, and did jack shit to let the public know about them. sonic mega collection plus and nfl 2k3 were the only games on the xbox to sell over 300k copies in america.

And that would make sense, as I don't remember things really looking up for Sega until Yakuza and Condemned hit.

Whereas:

Not a fair comparison in scale, but suffice to say that Sony wasn't nearly so out-of-pocket. And now we're into the publishing heavy side of their lifespan where things are at least stable.

 

[IN&OUT]

And that would make sense, as I don't remember things really looking up for Sega until Yakuza and Condemned hit.

Whereas:

Not a fair comparison in scale, but suffice to say that Sony wasn't nearly so out-of-pocket. And now we're into the publishing heavy side of their lifespan where things are at least stable.

Something fishy about your second graph. I think Sony have performed much better than what's in the graph in 1994-2005.

even if its talking about Sony as a whole or just the gaming division, there is something that doesn't add up. the graph is telling us that Sony NEVER was as big as Nintendo which is BS considering how electronics giant Sony actually is.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

A current console landscape with Sega still in the game could've been so amazing for gaming about now. Such a sad demise.

*salute*

Indeed. Just imagine Shenmue 3, Panzer Dragoon Saga 2 and Burning Rangers 2 in HD.

Oh lord, why did you take them so young. They had so much more to offer...

 

[Mdk7]

Best console ever, still holding such a special place in my heart.
Man, i miss the old Sega, i loved their games, their approach, their amazing display of talent.
Stuff that i do feel it's lacking these days.

 

[AniHawk]

After the Saturn + all the other Mega Drive failures is was obviously that people were not really interested in another Sega console.
The Dreamcast was a unnecessary console which almost killed Sega.

Bad management.

the poor management happened in the years preceding the dreamcast. sega was hitting most of the right marks. it wasn't selling a whole lot in japan, but it had good buzz in america. a sega with some deeper pockets and better brand recognition probably would have stuck through the end of that generation, at least. unfortunately, sega never really had a lot of cash on hand, even during the genesis days. they spread themselves far too thin.

 

[PdotMichael]

the poor management happened in the years preceding the dreamcast. sega was hitting most of the right marks. it wasn't selling a whole lot in japan, but it had good buzz in america. a sega with some deeper pockets and better brand recognition probably would have stuck through the end of that generation, at least. unfortunately, sega never really had a lot of cash on hand, even during the genesis days. they spread themselves far too thin.

The point of good management is not to force a company through something. The time of Sega as console manufactor was over after the Sega Saturn failure.

Sega would be in a way better position now if they just stayed an arcade and software company. And it's not even that we would lose that many games because the biggest part of the great Dreamcast lineup were arcade ports.

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

I was actually a big Sega hater but something about the Dreamcast just made me want it so bad. I got it day 1 and I'm glad I did. It was, if not still is my favorite console of all time. If only I knew I should have opened the disc tray before shutting off the Power, I'd still be playing it.

 

[AniHawk]

The point of good management is not to force a company through something. The time of Sega as console manufactor was over after the Sega Saturn failure.

Sega would be in a way better position now if they just stayed an arcade and software company. And it's not even that we would lose that many games because the biggest part of the great Dreamcast lineup were arcade ports.

what i mean by deeper pockets and better brand recognition is that they would have the money to secure more effective advertising (which was working in the united states to an extent), more games, and better deals with publishers. essentially, i meant that had sega's management during saturn era been the one during the dreamcast era, sega probably wouldn't have sunk during the dreamcast era. they made most of the right calls around 1998. it was the huge mess from 1992-1994 that really ruined them. the unnecessary hardware was stuff like the sega cd, 32x, nomad, and arguably game gear.

 

[driver116]

Dreamcast, my favourite console. Toy Commander, Sega GT, Chu Chu Rocket and Crazy Taxi - all masterpieces in my eyes.

 

[Yasae]

Something fishy about your second graph. I think Sony have performed much better than what's in the graph in 1994-2005.

even if its talking about Sony as a whole or just the gaming division, there is something that doesn't add up. the graph is telling us that Sony NEVER was as big as Nintendo which is BS considering how electronics giant Sony actually is.

I have a hunch that the amounts from 1994-1998 were under reported. Furthermore I couldn't (didn't feel like) finding net income from the past 20 years, so that doesn't quite fall under net loss or gain and is a ballpark comparison. Thirdly, Sony did take an operating loss in 2001 - that would have been their PS2 manufacturing hit. They were profitable afterwards. Finally, big companies don't necessarily make more money than their smaller brethren, but Sony (as a whole) has posted net losses for 2012 and 2013 if that's any indication of their financial situation.

 

[Sakura]

I await your return Sega.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

They could bring out something like an upgraded Ouya, it would suit plenty of their franchises just fine and wouldn't cost them a lot to develop.

 

[cafemomo]

There was a really good documentary on G4TV years ago about Sega's downfall in the hardware business and the Dreamcast specifically, might be on Youtube somewhere but I recommend it to anyone who can find it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMXlyzyyLlE

 

[Gen X]

I remember paying top dollar in NZ for an import of NFL2K1, which I.played about 4-5 seasons back to back as Green Bay. For the life of me I could never get a game online.

Fast forward two years later and a mate gave me a demo disc off OUKDCM and on the disc was a demo of some boot program. I only realised upon using it that my previous boot disc only booted in 50hz and this new one booted in 60hz. NFL2K1 was a new game all over again and I could connect to Seganet. However the game was well and truly dead by then. :-(

Never forget.

Ahahaha never seen that before.

 

[Oemenia]

Good all-round system for its time, but it had no chance of surviving. Ahead for its time but not equipped for the future.

 

[CTLance]

Thanks for the nostalgia-gasm, OP.

I adore the Dreamcast. I actually own four of them, mostly because the disc drives kept dying. But still... It gave me some of my favourite games ever. One of those is actually my favourite game ever. Rez is a god damn work of art and I'd love to see anyone disagree.

Are you my long-lost twin brother or something?

But yeah, Dreamcast. So good. I will forever love it for the VGA output. That alone was such a huge jump in image quality, the other consoles couldn't really compete.

 

[SebastianAlexander]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMXlyzyyLlE

so the Wii U is what the Saturn was before?

 

[Nokterian]

I remember here in the netherlands that one shop in the town where i lived had imported a dreamcast from the usa before it ever was on sale in our country. When i had time i went there just to see Sonic Adventure. I was in shock and awe how amazing and buttersmooth it looked. It was the full game but there was a loop of the demo the whole time but i would watch and watch.

Neither i had money for it and it is a shame i never could bought it but at that time amazing piece of hardware.

 

[Dark Octave]

That's a long explanation for why it failed. It was the PS2.

I don't think so. They held it together through the PS1 era, with lumps of course but they knew what they were going up against with Sony and Nintendo.

I think when MS stepped into the war is when Sega thought long and hard about their future and their chances against not two but now three giants, all with more money and newer hardware.

 

[Oemenia]

Thanks for the nostalgia-gasm, OP.

Are you my long-lost twin brother or something?

But yeah, Dreamcast. So good. I will forever love it for the VGA output. That alone was such a huge jump in image quality, the other consoles couldn't really compete.

That and DC games generally had better IQ than early (or in fact most) PS2 games.

 

[rallaren]

I'm glad they're still in it making games but god damn it... I feel bad everytime I read about this.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Ok, so you were ok with the quick discontinuation of both of those systems?

It made me sad. Am I happy with what we got? Absolutely.

 

[tkscz]

That's a long explanation for why it failed. It was the PS2.

But what did the PS2 do to kill the Dreamcast? I like that we know what exactly was going on. Sony had the parts made in house, which was cheaper than what Sega had to do (which was buy the parts from different companies). And I remember the Dreamcast hitting $99.99 pretty early in it's life. So sega losing a shit ton of money BEFORE dropping the price had to suck. Not to mention how bad the Saturn did and how they handled their world wide business. I never understood how Nintendo always makes profit and not Sega.

 

[cj_iwakura]

But what did the PS2 do to kill the Dreamcast? I like that we know what exactly was going on. Sony had the parts made in house, which was cheaper than what Sega had to do (which was buy the parts from different companies). And I remember the Dreamcast hitting $99.99 pretty early in it's life. So sega losing a shit ton of money BEFORE dropping the price had to suck. Not to mention how bad the Saturn did and how they handled their world wide business. I never understood how Nintendo always makes profit and not Sega.

Nintendo has a very devout(if not fanatical) fan base, and a lot more wildly popular franchises. Sega has a lot as well, but nothing as huge as Sonic.


Sega making exclusive games for Nintendo was painful to watch, given how I still remember the crap Nintendo put them through. I'd almost have rather seen them go under than develop for them.

 

[WAR recon zero]

Dc failed because it couldn't secure ea

Like wiiu

 

[Celine]

Something fishy about your second graph. I think Sony have performed much better than what's in the graph in 1994-2005.

even if its talking about Sony as a whole or just the gaming division, there is something that doesn't add up. the graph is telling us that Sony NEVER was as big as Nintendo which is BS considering how electronics giant Sony actually is.

It's comparing (in a cumulative way) the income between Nintendo and Sony gaming division (once known as SCE).

Should be known that Nintendo was always one of the most (or the most actually) profitable company in the traditional videogame business.

 

[Mileena]

Xbox sold more or less like the GC.
It's like saying nowaday that PS3 (or 360) is #2.
It doesn't matter, they tied.

GC and Xbox were fairly distant alsorun system compared PS2.

Xbox's higher sales are more impressive when you factor out Japan. Xbox in 2 main regions > GC in all, but really all that does is show how big of a fucking flop the GC was.

 

[Dennis]

Ah yes, SEGA, a top-tier PC house.

Oh, they used to make consoles and console games? The more you know......

 

[Celine]

Xbox's higher sales are more impressive when you factor out Japan. Xbox in 2 main regions > GC in all, but really all that does is show how big of a fucking flop the GC was.

Higher sales (of 2-5 million depending what region you include) aren't much impressive when you factor in the losses.

Sega making exclusive games for Nintendo was painful to watch, given how I still remember the crap Nintendo put them through. I'd almost have rather seen them go under than develop for them.

It was bittersweet for me.
Both sad and delicious but rather hollow.

I never understood how Nintendo always makes profit and not Sega.

Essentially Nintendo was a better run company.
Richer, with better brand management, much higher software sales and that rarely sold hardware with the same losses Sega incurred with Saturn and Dreamcast.
Even when Nintendo released a dud, it got quickly killed off (VB lasted 6 months) or was released in a limited way (64DD).

 

[Cipherr]

Doesn't mean shit. The PS2, PSX, and DS all had as high, if not higher, rates of piracy then the Dreamcast.

Nothing you listed there could match the Dreamcasts piracy levels except maybe the DS. You could go buy a spindle of blank CDR's for nothing and just burn the dreamcasts library on them. Cost you nearly nothing for the blank discs and all you had to do was own a burner, or know someone who did. It was one of the most easily pirated systems ever. And before the self booting discs, there was Bleemcast (i think?) which was a boot disc you just preloaded.

God it was ridiculous.

 

[Killing_Joke]

Got it for xmas with NFL and Sonic. My buddy had fuck load of bootleg games. Would borrow games almost every week. Crazy Taxi, Ready 2 Rumble, Powerstone etc.
God damn that was a good year.


Then the PS2 came out and i'm not even sure what happened to it. lol

 

[Vizzeh]

Pirating has got to be a massive contributor to its loss, I know people who when I went to their house had a chipped Dreamcast and CD's full of pirated games... Apparently the guy doing the "chipping" was quite busy...

 

[MechDX]

beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

 

[sixteen-bit]

That Famitsu supplement looks really cool, here is an overview of all the content in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk8OWLFUFVs

 

[KojiKnight]

And before the self booting discs, there was Bleemcast (i think?) which was a boot disc you just preloaded.

God it was ridiculous.

Err... no... Bleemcast was the PS1 emulator for Dreamcast by the people that made the Bleem PS1 emu on PC. Those guys were wizards... except when it came to not being sued out of existance.

 

[mr teaspoon]

I kind of regret buying one, though I may try Skies of Arcadia sooner or later.

Yes, I'd get around to that if I were you.

 

[KojiKnight]

Yes, I'd get around to that if I were you.

I'm going to rain on your parade here... Skies of Arcadia is like Tales of Symphonia in that they were both the only real RPGs on their systems and therefore were elevated well beyond what they actually deserved.

Of the two, SoA is much much worse, suffering from near unplayable enemy encounter rates.

 

[mr teaspoon]

Definitely have to disagree on that one. Yes, the random encounters are very frequent. It is annoying. But game ruining? Hardly.

 

[MarionCB]

I still get sad when I think of this happening. The Dreamcast was my first console, and still my favourite. I remember staying up late playing Skies of Arcadia. So freaking epic. Still the best version of Soul Calibur; it's the most perfectly balanced game. Star Lancer, Rez, Crazy Taxi, Shenmue, Code Veronica, PSO, Power Stone, Ready 2 Rumble, NFL 2K.... so many great games and memories.

My copy of Power Stone even tells the Dreamcast story:

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Did you play any of those consoles?

With the level of hate they're spewing, they probably invested hundreds maybe even thousands of dollars into them. It's the only semi-justifiable reason they'd feel that way.

...and it still isn't a very good reason.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

The Dreamcast was more than dev-friendly, though — it was also casual-friendly, going completely away from the hardcore gamer-oriented trend they established with the 16-bit Genesis and 32-bit Saturn. "We did our best to make the console approachable to a mass audience," Takezaki said, "from the system's design and coloring to the name itself. As a result, we went with a compact, simple design with a warm color scheme, something completely different in look from older Sega systems. I think it was the console that we took the most complete marketing approach with.

Really interesting to hear this. Something about DC's design always struck me as very Super Famicon-ish, and the GC seemed to try and go further into what the DC was doing aesthetically speaking. But maybe DC also looked a little too much like a toy as a result, and the older demographic forming them didn't want something that looked a little too soft and friendly.

Not to mention DC has one of the most hardcore-focused libraries ever, sports games aside.

Sega could've kept the industrial black design of the Genesis/Saturn and streamlined it into something more modern, ironically something Sony and Microsoft did that gen. It worked out for one of them at least.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I'm going to rain on your parade here... Skies of Arcadia is like Tales of Symphonia in that they were both the only real RPGs on their systems and therefore were elevated well beyond what they actually deserved.

Of the two, SoA is much much worse, suffering from near unplayable enemy encounter rates.

Hardly. Dreamcast had Grandia 2(the best version no less), Record of Lodoss War, Elemental Gimmick Gear, and a handful of others. Skies of Arcadia was arguably the best, but hardly the only. I'd say Grandia 2 was the best myself.

 

[Ecotic]

I wonder what could have been if Sega had just had the parts needed to make enough Dreamcasts to meet demand at the Japanese launch. It never recovered there from that and the Saturn had done so well in Japan. :/

 

[Cipherr]

Err... no... Bleemcast was the PS1 emulator for Dreamcast by the people that made the Bleem PS1 emu on PC. Those guys were wizards... except when it came to not being sued out of existance.

Probably so, I wasnt sure about the name. Its been like 14 years, but there were definitely boot discs for DC games, I remember them. Just don't recall the names.

 

[BarrettW]

It seemed to me at the time that sega dropped the ball when they went third party as well. Where were the amazing unique games we had enjoyed in the day of the dreamcast? It does occur to me that being in a dire financial situation and taking risks don't really go hand in hand but the landscape is a lot better now. Maybe it was lightning in a bottle but I think in the day of indie publishing and kickstarter they could dig up some old franchises again. Sega come baaaaack