The queen has been killed 3 times now, so I doubt that was the end of her. Everything else can be rebuilt easily enough.
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Why was the Borg nerfed?
- Thread starter mr jones
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The queen has been killed 3 times now, so I doubt that was the end of her. Everything else can be rebuilt easily enough.
I'm pretty sure the MMO created a new Borg Queen too. Endgame seemed to at least heavily indicate/imply that the Alice Krige/Susanna Thompson Queen would be gone for good. I'd certainly hope that if a new Borg Queen was ever imagined it would look very different.
Speaking of the borg. Seven of Nine. I actually liked her character despite it being so obvious that the writers clearly had no idea what to do with her for the first few episodes. She starts out childlike and innocent almost, and very compliant. Then she quickly turns into this annoying foil for Janeway (not that it ever works). But it's her interactions with The Doctor that brought out her character best.
FUCK I hated that. As Custard Trout mentioned, a "species" with a collective hivemind was outside of the sci-fi norm, so they were scary, and refreshing at the same time. Then they put that smug, emotional bitch-ass queen in and fucked everything up, Motherfucker I LOATHED that god forsaken Borg queen.
They would have been so much more interesting and intimidating if they were just... Borg. Just a network system, like a WAN that is broken up into smaller LANs. Hence the reason why you could have folks like Seven of Nine, who would be part of a larger matrix.
And they wouldn't be "one-dimensional." What happens when a node is separated from the rest of their local matrix? Can you introduce a nano-virus against Borg? What happens to someone who's been introduced to the Borg nano-tech, but has been rescued? Could Q give enough of a damn to help humanity from being assimilated?
Once the queen was introduced, you have a "face" of the Borg, and they're no longer nebulous, no longer a force. They're just a bunch of cyborg bees ran by a maniacal gangsta bitch bent on controlling the whole block.
Borg queen... *spit*
Oh God! WTF was up with that? That was like, the most unexpected and unforseen romance ever. It had absolutely zero buildup or prior hinting. Chakotay never viewed Seven with much fondness and Seven never really had any prolonged interactions with him.
I always wonder if it was a "peace offering" to Robert Beltran because of how he had been getting very outspoken at how badly the show was being run and how he wasn't getting any lines anymore.
Oh, and Harry, lol. Now that was a useless character. I think I read he was supposed to have been killed in an early season but they kept him around for some odd reason.
Seven should have been with The Doctor.
Delta Assault
Member
Oh God! WTF was up with that? That was like, the most unexpected and unforseen romance ever. It had absolutely zero buildup or prior hinting. Chakotay never viewed Seven with much fondness and Seven never really had any prolonged interactions with him.
I always wonder if it was a "peace offering" to Robert Beltran because of how he had been getting very outspoken at how badly the show was being run and how he wasn't getting any lines anymore.
Oh, and Harry, lol. Now that was a useless character. I think I read he was supposed to have been killed in an early season but they kept him around for some odd reason.
Seven should have been with The Doctor.
Well, they DID kill him in an early season. But he got replaced by an alternate timeline version. So um. Yeah.
Well, this is the legacy of Harry Kim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3oaMMJnc1Q
gutter_trash
Banned
Borg were like space commies
Delta Assault
Member
Nah, that's the Federation.
benjipwns
Banned
I think Beltran has actually pointed out this was stupid and out of the blue.
http://www.firsttvdrama.com/funstuff/beltran.php3
MisterHero
Super Member
Ugh, that combined with Ronald Moore's descriptions of his "very brief" time with Voyager make it sound like the production was just a complete and utter mess (which says a lot coming from Moore, considering he was only on the production for a month, but it left him with such a huge bitter pill to swallow even after his success on DS9). Sweatshop and assembly line like conditions for the creative staff while being pulled into so many different directions by Berman, Braga and the UPN network execs.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Voyager had its moments, but I feel that its direction into a sub-par TNG clone was caused by a backlash against the dark, deconstructive serial that Deep Space Nine became. I feel that if RDM's idea for Voyager had came to fruition, then it would have made DS9 look like TOS in comparison.
I did enjoy Voyager, the Doctor and Seven in particular had some great individual episodes, but the worst about it is you know it will always snap back to the mold that is completely incompatiable with the concept. If it was a bit more like the Equinox and Captain Ransom they came across (btw the way that crew just disappeared after that... Sigh)
They adapted...
Equinox was great, I really wish they kept the ship around.
It would of made Voyager a lot more interesting.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
My biggest problem with the Borg is that they only ever sent one ship at a time to conquer the federation. True, it could be possible that the Borg were cocky, but you'd assume a species so highly reliant on machinery would have run the numbers and sent, you know, two or three ships.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
You could justify it before the idea of transwarp (and later episodes) came along. That the Borg didn't know about the Federation until Q threw the Enterprise into Borg space, then Borg learnt about the Federation by scanning the Enterprise's computers, and then that single cube decided to change course to assimilate Earth. You could even argue that their encounter with the Enterprise changed them from valuing solely technology to being interested in assimilating people.
But I'm not going to get drawn into this. Star Trek contradicts and retcons itself more than the bible.
alexandros
Banned
The Borg should have been an unstoppable force of nature, the universe's black plague, something that can only hope tovsurvive from and not even think of defeating. As soon as the series and movies made them easily beatable, it was over for the Borg as intimidating villains.
Yeah horrible and shameful mishandling.
iamaustrian
Member
couldn't have said it better
Species 8472 were the single worst thing introduced in Star Trek.
Poorly designed, "fluidic space" bullshit, different dimension nonsense, completly overblown strength specs of the species itself and it's stupid organic spaceship
BORG should have always been the ultimate species.
Börg
QuicheFontaine
Member
My favourite line:
"Fuck you Rick Berman. You ruined this too?
Wait, that ain't Rick Berman.
What is it with Ricks?"
OT:
Yeah it's weird to go back and watch that first episode where they introduce them. There's this air of OH SHIT and the sense that humanity is just no match. That seems to go out the window later on when they're clowning around on the Enterprise. Just shoot them with holographic machine guns.
IISANDERII
Member
The other thing is that even in that first episode, Q is the antagonist and the Borg are only his vehicle.
Borg are a force of nature and that's why they had to be changed; Human vs. Nature stories don't work.
Borg are a force of nature and that's why they had to be changed; Human vs. Nature stories don't work.
eot
Banned
Beltran is a whiny prick who just shits on everyone else. Don't take what he says at face value.
Escape Goat
Member
eot
Banned
No but you can take it into consideration and look up Beltran if you're interested.
Gary Whitta wrote a script for Voyager that tells the origins of the Borg but it got turned down.
http://cyberspace5.net/agentrichard07/voy-origin.htm
Would have been the final nail in the coffin.
http://cyberspace5.net/agentrichard07/voy-origin.htm
Would have been the final nail in the coffin.
Escape Goat
Member
Well that reads like a typical Voyager script.
Turned down by Voyager...ouch.
QuicheFontaine
Member
WHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA???????
I dont know about this, when the enterprise first encountered the borg they seemed less effective at first, though that was due to never encountered the federation before.
The thing I dont get why did the borg just send 1 cube to assimilate earth?
they have a transwarp network why not send like 50 cubes ensuring victory? it makes no sense.
The thing I dont get why did the borg just send 1 cube to assimilate earth?
they have a transwarp network why not send like 50 cubes ensuring victory? it makes no sense.
As a child, I thought they were terrifying but infinitely interesting at the same time.
As an adult, they are my least favorite Star Trek nemesis, and I see them for the bad Cybermen knock-off that they are. For one thing, their consumes look like cheesy goth/steam punk cosplay. Also, as OP says, they are inconsistent throughout the series. Furthermore, as a philosophical matter, I find the whole collectivism v. individuality to be a tired trope.
As an adult, they are my least favorite Star Trek nemesis, and I see them for the bad Cybermen knock-off that they are. For one thing, their consumes look like cheesy goth/steam punk cosplay. Also, as OP says, they are inconsistent throughout the series. Furthermore, as a philosophical matter, I find the whole collectivism v. individuality to be a tired trope.
bloody hell!
ha, i must be even dumber, never even thought of that lol.
Escape Goat
Member
I figured the Borg calculated that one Cube would be enough. Anything more would be an inefficient use of resources.
But Voyager did have plot armor (and actual armor) especially when it came to the Borg. Just like in Buffy Season 7, one uber vamp almost killed Buffy. But suddenly the newbie slayers are killing them by the boatload.
I always thought it was Swedish.
KernelPanic
Member
Maybe this was stated but if the Borg stayed that powerful there is no way they would not conquer Earth at some point.
They were too powerful. Used to watch BBoBW and FC and think it'd be all over I'd they sent a bunch of Borg cubes instead of just one.
I like in the EU Borg said fuck it and jsut started glassing worlds. Their new slogan was "We are the Borg. You will be annihilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness have become irrelevant. Resistance is futile... but welcome."
Wiped out 40% of the federation before they were stopped.
Wiped out 40% of the federation before they were stopped.
Actually, I liked about the Borg of old that there was no true malice behind their actions, making them unfit to be villains. Intimidating yes, force of nature absolutely, but never actually due to a "bad" motivation. The desire to improve yourself, to find unique and advantageous traits and make them your own is per se not bad, I think.
That obviously also requires a vastly different perspective. That a hive mind would not and probably inherently could not understand the immense suffering it inflicted on non-hive mind species isn't that far off. After all, when we are thirsty we reach for a glass of water, even if said glass is cold or has some cracks that could cut us. A hive mind identifies the most suitable planet or star system in reach and sends a few thousand drones to drain its oceans, even if there's indigenous life or if those drones suffer heavy losses in the process.
There was so much potential for the writers to play around with free will, individuals vs greater good, communication with a truly alien entity with different values and perspectives...
...but it's far easier to just slap a face and some boobs on it and add some explosions. Borg queen was the beginning of the end. They took the Stanislav Lem-esque alien concept and converted it into a villain of the week type of character prototype. Tragic, really.
I'm one of the people who didn't mind the Borg Queen--it still fit with the Hive Mind organization.
And the Borg as they first appeared in Voyager were great. "Scorpion" was an excellent two parter.
The problem that came afterwards was one part familiarity--it's not as exciting if the Borg show up all the time--and one part poor writing that nerfed them. They made Voyager way too effective, so it lessened their impact.
To me it'd be pretty easy to rehab them--just have them come back en masse and assault the Alpha Quadrant no holds barred. Seems like enough pricks like we'd done to them they'd commit the most resources to wiping us out.
And the Borg as they first appeared in Voyager were great. "Scorpion" was an excellent two parter.
The problem that came afterwards was one part familiarity--it's not as exciting if the Borg show up all the time--and one part poor writing that nerfed them. They made Voyager way too effective, so it lessened their impact.
To me it'd be pretty easy to rehab them--just have them come back en masse and assault the Alpha Quadrant no holds barred. Seems like enough pricks like we'd done to them they'd commit the most resources to wiping us out.
demosthenes
Member
Terk noob here.
Wasn't there an episode when they killed Borg with conventional (bullets) weapons? They wouldn't be able to adapt to those would they?
wow that was pretty cool, though the origin of the borg was pretty lame.
I'd like to think the borg were created by a combination of a race that took cybernetic implants and enhancements to a new new level and they tried to grow humanoids and other species with cybernetic parts, that resulted in the borg. Kinda of like the original bioshock but a different space age futuristic setting.
Are there anymore voyager story's? like that?
yeah in star trek first contact picard uses a tommy gun in the holodec to kill a borg who was formally ensign linch, lol
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