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[Inuhanyou]

I was browsing through old FF10 and FF13 hype news and old builds in anticipation of FF15 news when i randomly remembered seeing earlier FF13 shots that looked distinctly different from the release game back before the game came out...i tried to dig up some of these scans again and i found these...

As you can see, the models and details on the characters are much more high quality than in the launched game, no sausage fingers for one, but also, there's hardly any visible polygon edges on the characters bodies, not to mention the faces look much better, and the dithering on the hair is severely reduced from both the launched PS3 title and even moreso compared to the subpar 360 port.

My question is...why? There are many possible answers to the question, one of which obviously being that SE was a goddamn mess at that state, in terms of both developing the game itself and the engine...

But there's also the 360 to consider. FF13 was originally a PS2 game, but then they wholesale switched over to researching CELL development, and were fully intending to launch as a PS3 exclusive before obvious financial realities made it clear that wasn't going to happen.

Is that also a possible reason? We know exclusive titles had more graphical grunt on PS4 versus 360...was shifting to multi a suitable enough reason to drop the higher quality assets?

But then there's also the PS3's state itself. We have no idea what kind of dev kits Sony had at that time, maybe it as a case of SE not anticipating the PS3's final output? But these pics are from August 2008..so it wasn't really THAT long until the game launched..so SE had to have been working with the PS3 for a long time before that..how could they not anticipate the scale of their assets?

I don't believe that its a simple case of bullshots, as this is literally better/different graphics all around than what we got, not just higher resolution and AA applied.

Anyone else have any reasoning for this disparity?

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Square Enix after announcement of 360 version: "We decided to lock them at the same specs to avoid all the debates and stuff"

 

[Takao]

snow looks so off

 

[threelights]

They just look like the cutscene models in real time to me (with more AA).

Probably didn't work out to keep those during gameplay when you consider how the battle system plays out...

 

[Drilbit777]

It pretty much was the 360 why it was downgraded, also the 360 version runs at a lower framerate and resolution compared to ps3.

 

[Edge_Maverick]

The game did achieve that visual, but only on the pre rendered scenes. They changed the models in this cutscene too.

 

[Jedi2016]

Nah, I think they're just bullshots.

 

[Astral Dog]

Probably for markting reasons, or, while thy were developing the game, they overestimated the specifications of PS3, its still one of the best looking games on it.

Also, cutscenes are higher quality.

 

[Anth0ny]

Bullshots have always been a thing.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Square Enix after announcement of 360 version: "We decided to lock them at the same specs to avoid all the debates and stuff"

Doesnt the 360 have a stronger GPU then the PS3?(and the PS3 had the stronger CPU)

 

[injurai]

cutscenes

 

[Parfait]

thats what happens with like a 20 year dev cycle and like 30 new engines they have to roll through because corporate decisions

 

[Inuhanyou]

They just look like the cutscene models in real time to me (with more AA).

Probably didn't work out to keep those during gameplay when you consider how the battle system plays out...

THat's not exactly correct though. For example, if you look at Vanille's embroidery in the close up shot of her, even in the cutscenes that were FMV, her jewels in the game are still much more pointy and angular than in these shots. For example her necklace is not a straight round circle like in these pics, even in the FMV cut scenes they are still polygonal like they had to cut down the poly's significantly

 

[Poimandres]

This happens all the time. It might have looked like that at some stage, but it was necessary to tone some things down to ensure decent performance. That's usually the way these things go.

 

[Xion4360]

it was never downgraded.. we didnt even see in game visuals for a long time, by the time we saw them the demo was not far off.. those screens were scenes that were going to be pre rendered with the high res models but were instead real time...they are also slightly altered, with edges smoothed out. aka bullshots.

 

[Thoraxes]

After playing at 4k/60 on PC, I think it's just the console power that was a factor.

The game looks fucking gorgeous on PC.

The model differences are obviously still there, but with the scalability of PC, the improvements are pretty dramatic on that regard alone.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Doesnt the 360 have a stronger GPU then the PS3?(and the PS3 had the stronger CPU)

Yes, but the CELL was able to work with the GPU do much more graphical tasks than if it was just RSX alone. That's what was the case with every first party Sony exclusive, and what i suspect that was where these shots were from..

I really wish we had some super comparison with the finished product, but i cant seem to find any.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Doesnt the 360 have a stronger GPU then the PS3?(and the PS3 had the stronger CPU)

13 was optimized for PS3 and built on it + bluray

 

[Meicyn]

They were downgraded for the same reason White Knight Chronicles was downgraded: the initial reveals were bullshots and target renders.

 

[copelandmaster]

Probably neither console could handle them + the engine being pants.

 

[Northeastmonk]

13 was optimized for PS3 and built on it + bluray

XIII was 3 DvD discs compared to 1 Bluray disc.

Remember

and

At that exact moment I realized exclusive content was over for 3rd party developers. They'd all find some way onto other consoles. For the most part I was right. Every major Triple A game (outside MGS4 and a couple other titles) were multiplatform. FFXIII was thought to be a PS3 exclusive for a very long time, then SE made that last announcement at E3 of 2008. I feel that Square puts a lot of work into debugging their games. I also believe that's why it takes so long to make.

I personally find a lot of long lasting appeal to Square's games. You have to look pretty hard or you can't appreciate their work if you see it right out the blue. Their PS1 titles still look incredible. I still consider X and XII as wonderful looking games. I guess it's just how you see everything. I think if the 360 had graphical problems it was because it was developed for the PS3 first. To this day I consider the better version being on PS3. I finished the PS3 import that December prior to the NA release. I wasn't sure I wanted to wait for the NA release.

 

[cafemomo]

lightning still looks beautiful after the downgrade~



But Crystal Tools is a shoddy engine.

Same thing will mostly likely happen with luminous and FFXV

 

[Toth]

They were downgraded for the same reason White Knight Chronicles was downgraded: the initial reveals were bullshots and target renders.

Boy did WKC feel like a shell of what was promised

 

[injurai]

Same thing will mostly likely happen with luminous and FFXV

Yeah the lead developer quit, it was supposed to be a company wide engine now they can't use it outside the scope of the FFXV project.

 

[Northeastmonk]

lightning still looks beautiful after the downgrade~



But Crystal Tools is a shoddy engine.

Same thing will mostly likely happen with luminous and FFXV

Only because they had an engine that got dated extremely fast. That didn't necessarily happen to the gen prior. I feel that the Luminous engine will do wonders at its current state, but they're only showing us so much at the moment. They aren't declaring depth beyond what the trailers have shown. This is my biggest concern with FFXV. I'm a bit worried the areas are linear instead of vast and open. Lord knows they have wonderful character models, but FFXIII was made like a ham in the oven.

I feel that developers had a larger pallet to work with last gen. They know how to render games with a lot more detail. The first half was being built to showoff the latter. It all worked out in the end to be honest. Some titles did better than others.

 

[threelights]

Only because they had an engine that got dated extremely fast. That didn't necessarily happen to the gen prior. I feel that the Luminous engine will do wonders at its current state, but they're only showing us so much at the moment. They aren't declaring depth beyond what the trailers have shown. This is my biggest concern with FFXV. I'm a bit worried the areas are linear instead of vast and open. Lord knows they have wonderful character models, but FFXIII was made like a ham in the oven.

There's literally a 10min video of them sowing how open the game is...

People still think that game is linear? Jesus...

 

[Northeastmonk]

There's literally a 10min video of them sowing how open the game is...

People still think that game is linear? Jesus...

You could show me a 10 minute video of Gran Pulse and I'd believe it was the second coming of open world RPGs. I believe XV is open world, but I'm just skeptical about how "open" is it. Will there be a point to everything being open world? Will I have quests to go back to, side bosses, multiple towns I can reenter, etc. I believe it honestly, but one slice of a massive world is alluding to something that might or might not be there.

I could travel across Gran Pulse and wind up on that linear path again. I can go back and forth all I want. Is there a point? I really wish they'd bring back the hunts from XII.

 

[Xion4360]

They aren't declaring depth beyond what the trailers have shown. This is my biggest concern with FFXV. I'm a bit worried the areas are linear instead of vast and open. .

I take it you havent been keeping up with FFXV media./

You could show me a 10 minute video of Gran Pulse and I'd believe it was the second coming of open world RPGs. I believe XV is open world, but I'm just skeptical about how "open" is it. Will there be a point to everything being open world? Will I have quests to go back to, side bosses, multiple towns I can reenter, etc. I believe it honestly, but one slice of a massive world is alluding to something that might or might not be there.

Unlike FFXIII, Versus was always meant to have large open spaces..weather or not its linear in the sense that you always have one place to go next is another thing, but the environments are not linear corridors that's for sure. They've showed the town from the last trailer that you rest in the hotel, eat at, shop and stuff.. im sure theres more like it.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

The first video was prerendered with a fake HUD slapped on.

 

[timetokill]

The PS3 wasn't as powerful as originally promised, and they were target renders.

 

[BigTnaples]

Didn't follow his at release but could it not have been because PS3s hardware itself was downgraded? Same reason MgS4 was downgraded after its initial showing..

 

[FLAguy954]

Can someone post a PC shot for comparison?

 

[Northeastmonk]

I take it you havent been keeping up with FFXV media.

I did for the first 4 years and the trailer they just released. I've seen the car rides. I even went and printed off a poster from Kinkos. I saw the tools they were using to make the map and how you can interact with the wild life. I also saw the towns you can go through. I've seen enough to know I'll buy it day 1. It's one of my top picks and all time favorite game series. This is like the first time I said it "might not be". I've never said that before, so I'm not even taking what I said serious. I hope it's as good as they're saying it is.

 

[wmlk]

The PS3 wasn't as powerful as originally promised, and they were target renders.

These shots were released years after the PS3 released

 

[Grief.exe]

XIII was 3 DvD discs compared to 1 Bluray disc.

Remember

and

At that exact moment I realized exclusive content was over for 3rd party developers. They'd all find some way onto other consoles. For the most part I was right. Every major Triple A game (outside MGS4 and a couple other titles) were multiplatform. FFXIII was thought to be a PS3 exclusive for a very long time, then SE made that last announcement at E3 of 2008. I feel that Square puts a lot of work into debugging their games. I also believe that's why it takes so long to make.

I personally find a lot of long lasting appeal to Square's games. You have to look pretty hard or you can't appreciate their work if you see it right out the blue. Their PS1 titles still look incredible. I still consider X and XII as wonderful looking games. I guess it's just how you see everything. I think if the 360 had graphical problems it was because it was developed for the PS3 first. To this day I consider the better version being on PS3. I finished the PS3 import that December prior to the NA release. I wasn't sure I wanted to wait for the NA release.

If you want a good laugh, go check out the 360 announcement thread on GAF.

Only because they had an engine that got dated extremely fast. That didn't necessarily happen to the gen prior. I feel that the Luminous engine will do wonders at its current state, but they're only showing us so much at the moment. They aren't declaring depth beyond what the trailers have shown. This is my biggest concern with FFXV. I'm a bit worried the areas are linear instead of vast and open. Lord knows they have wonderful character models, but FFXIII was made like a ham in the oven.

I was wondering that as well. They have shown off the gorgeous views and character models, but what about gameplay? My initial impressions from interviews and snippets of footage were looking quite shallow. Of course, that is what it takes to maximize sales these days.

 

[DeSolos]

FFXIII also began development prior to the launch of the 7th gen consoles, so quite a bit had to scale back from the initial announcement as well.

It's just the reality of game development. Optimization comes later in development, but marketing happens throughout. We see the game as it changes over time, some things will look better and other things look worse.

 

[cafemomo]

Can someone post a PC shot for comparison?

well. it's not the same scenes but here's a 1080p and 720p screeshots I took.
mind you these were from a potato tier laptop so it may look a little off

 

[wmlk]

Nothing in the game looks as good as the screenshots in the OP. Not even the cutscene models.

It's still a great looking game, though.

 

[Xion4360]

well. it's not the same scenes but here's a 1080p and 720p screeshots I took.
mind you these were from a potato tier laptop so it may look a little off

It certainly looks like the same game just with more p's and fps'

 

[Falk]

Can someone post a PC shot for comparison?

There are a shit ton of screenshots in the FFXIII PC OT.

Here's one

 

[Alo81]

Can someone post a PC shot for comparison?

From PC Screenshot thread.

 

[threelights]

I was wondering that as well. They have shown off the gorgeous views and character models, but what about gameplay? My initial impressions from interviews and snippets of footage were looking quite shallow. Of course, that is what it takes to maximize sales these days.

They've shown the battle system (which I'd hardly say it's shallow), and they've said that in the world map video events and most monsters were turned off. Cities, again, look anything but shallow.

I feel this becoming a FFXV thread =X

 

[R10Neymarfan]

You near well reach that quality on PC version. Also I think some of these models are still hidden in the game files

 

[Dreamwriter]

It wasn't downgraded, because what they were showing wasn't real in-game. They said so themselves at the time, the first they showed of FFXIII they were showing target-renders, how they wanted the game to look and play, not how it was actually looking on any hardware or in any engine. That includes the combat video they showed, it was basically a pitch video for the game.

 

[cafemomo]

People still think that game is linear? Jesus...

I don't blame people for being skeptical.
It could be Type-0 level of "open" just larger for all we know.

Linear or not, it's still gonna be an enjoyable jRPG.

 

[HTupolev]

Two possible contributing reasons:

1-Speculative early high-quality models being early high-quality models. (IIRC some of the cutscenes that are in-engine are pre-rendered and use higher quality models, so SE may have ultimately gotten some use out of them.)
2-The gameplay ultimately wound up usually having models farther away than in the early (more action-y) material, reducing the priority on character model quality.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I was wondering that as well. They have shown off the gorgeous views and character models, but what about gameplay? My initial impressions from interviews and snippets of footage were looking quite shallow. Of course, that is what it takes to maximize sales these days.

Active Cross Battle in XV will be almost as good as the Active Dimension Battle system was in XII. XIII's Command Synergy Battle and Style-Change Active Time Battle system(s) didn't necessarily make combat entertaining to play, but they were fun to watch. I'd say the AXB system will allow the world to open up. Which is going to be a completely new way IMO to play FF in the mainline series (of course). Fun fact, I looked these battle systems up on the wiki. I seriously believe the flow of combat in XV is one of its better strengths. It's taking a lot away from being a FF, but who knows how they'll use it. I don't know if we'll find an Omega Weapon or Ruby Weapon just sitting out there in the open or what. I want more of that in FF instead of having maybe 2 or 3 monsters on a map and maybe 1 hard creature like XIII had. That basically made XIII's flow even worse. It did everything else real well IMO.

Graphically speaking I feel as though SE has to make the world much more rich in detail. XIII was built to look good at a glance. If you think about it FFXIII was built on placing the player in a set. SE did this wonderfully on the PS1. It's just XIII had it all going in one direction. It didn't necessarily say, "stop here and explore". You were taking maybe a minute or two to glance at everything.

 

[HeelPower]

Anyone else have any reasoning for this disparity?

Isn't it obvious ?

What console game in 2009 could hope to possibly achieve this quality on PS360 in real time ??

Some current games don't even look that good.

It was 100% CG.

 

[Diablos]

You near well reach that quality on PC version. Also I think some of these models are still hidden in the game files

Even for PC? If so, that could open some doors. Maybe.

But if indeed the higher quality models exist then that would tell me perhaps going multiplat forced S-E to downgrade the graphics a bit.

It's hard to say because the batch of pics everyone compares the final product to were essentially bullshots.

 

[threelights]

I don't blame people for being skeptical.
It could be Type-0 level of "open" just larger for all we know.

Linear or not, it's still gonna be an enjoyable jRPG.

Type-0 is mission based though (because multiplayer), if you take that away, the game is pretty open... It just doesn't have many sidequests outside the academy.

FFXV will most likely be about as linear as FFXII or Xenoblade from what they're showing. You go to areas in order, but those areas are open and have side stuff in them.