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[Kssio_Aug]

I dont want every western RPG game to be like The Witcher 3 now!

I have yet to play TW3, it seems amazing, but by everything I've read and saw, Fallout and Witcher 3 seems to have different purposes!

Sarting with the character... TW3 gives you a ready character with much less customization in every aspect. While in Fallout / Elder Scrolls you create your character and define wich weapon to use amongs a huge variety, or not using weapons at all, being a cheater, a merchant, a thief or whatever! At the Witcher 3, maybe I'm wrong, but you're just the hunter, right? Also is there lots of weapon varieties? cause it seems to me it doesnt.

Also, in Bethesda games theres a narrative, that actually feel less important then the whole experience. Theres no strong story telling, theres just an excuse so you can jump in that big and dangerous world! You make your way, you experience it by yourself, and things just happen.

Again, not sure about The Witcher 3, but it seems to me much more story driven! Am I wrong?

They seems both amazing RPG types. But very different from one another. And I'm happy to have Bethesda RPGs, cause they're my favorites!

 

[MrJoobJoob]

I've always thought The Witcher and the Bethesda games were trying to achieve fundamentally different goals, despite falling under the same blanket definition of RPG. Bethsoft games are about simulation and true roleplaying -- you're a part of the world and can choose how to influence it. Witcher is more about a singular character, a singular playstyle, and a mostly singular storyline. It's basically medieval RDR with stats and equipment.

 

[è£ ç”²æ‚ªé¬¼æ‘æ­£]

The way Bethesda approaches RPGs is inherently...not good. You get a big world to explore, but nothing is worth finding because dungeons/loot are copy-pasted level scaled garbage and the towns are lifeless and uninteresting, containing eight NPCs walking stiffly from one point to another.

You can do whatever you want, but nothing is worth doing because the writing is shit, nobody acknowledges your accomplishments and there are no consequences to anything. What point is there to role-playing your own created character if the game gives you zero feedback.

People often say that a fully realized Bethesda-RPG would be their dream game, but here's the thing: that kind of game is never going to happen, and it most certainly is not going to happen through Bethesda, because quite frankly they are not very good at this whole RPG thing.

 

[kamineko]

Fallout 3 and The Witcher 3 are trying to do pretty different things. Both in terms of presentation, as well as under the hood. It isn't really an apples to apples comparison. The actual problem is that, IMO, Witcher 3 is much better at doing what it is trying to do than Fallout 3 is, but that doesn't make Witcher 3 a Fallout replacement product.

Where Beth (and even Obsidian) begins to pale by comparison is in the areas of quest design (though obviously Obsidian generally fares better). With sidequests, where the "specific person vs blank slate" protagonist distinction is not as significant (excluding bounties, of course), it seems pretty clear that CDPR has raised the bar considerably, and it's natural to wonder how the latest offering from Bethesda will measure up. Since Fallout 4 is generally assumed to be finished, they aren't going to be able to take any lessons learned from CDPR.

I'm very excited to experience Fallout 4, as I'm quite fond of the franchise (like the old and the new games), but I am wondering how the sidequests will seem after an exhilarating experience with Witcher 3. But, you know, competition breeds innovation. A great game by CDPR isn't just good for owners of the game--it's ultimately good for everyone.

Sorry I can't include Skyrim in my thoughts, I've beaten every mainline TES game from Daggerfall to Oblivion, only to abandon Skyrim multiple times

 

[KillerSloth]

The way Bethesda approaches RPGs is inherently...not good. You get a big world to explore, but nothing is worth finding because dungeons/loot are copy-pasted level scaled garbage and the towns are lifeless and uninteresting, containing eight NPCs walking stiffly from one point to another.

You can do whatever you want, but nothing is worth doing because the writing is shit, nobody acknowledges your accomplishments and there are no consequences to anything. What point is there to role-playing your own created character if the game gives you zero feedback.

People often say that a fully realized Bethesda-RPG would be their dream game, but here's the thing: that kind of game is never going to happen, and it most certainly is not going to happen through Bethesda, because quite frankly they are not very good at this whole RPG thing.

I totally agree with this their games are inherently flawed. You put it better then I could.

 

[Demoskinos]

Lol your joking right? Radiant AI was trash and PR. Witcher has ten times the npcs and all gave daily routines and move around the world realistically

Yeah, Impressive how they are always standing in the same two spots repeating the same dialog endlessly. The Witcher is an impressive game for many reasons but not the NPC's

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Again witcher 3 combat is totally different the 1 and is way better than skyrim combat. Maybe play before saying nonsense.

They introduced a new combat engine in tw2

I was talking about witcher 1 combat, which I hinted at by saying witcher 1.

If it's not a case of missing stuff by not playing 1 and 2 then I'll look into it. Currently playing a ttw install of fallout before 4 hits.

 

[His Majesty]

While in Fallout / Elder Scrolls you create your character and define wich weapon to use amongs a huge variety, or not using weapons at all, being a cheater, a merchant, a thief or whatever!

Even better, you can be the leader of the dark brotherhood, fighters guild, magic guild and thieving guild at the same time! Much roleplay.

 

[Enkidu]

I once spawned (via console) 3 high level vampires in the Blue Palace throne room just for shits and grins. Elisif jumped off the throne, ran into a bedroom off the throne room, opened a display case and pulled out a big old two-handed sword. She then charged the nearest vampire and started swinging that sword like a True Nord™.

"Is this what you want? Uh?"
"Your kind has no place here!"
"I..I'll kill you"

I've played around with the NPC AI in many different ways and it's always been entertaining and lots of fun to see the shit they do. *shrug*

Maybe I'm missing something amazing here but it seems the NPC just went and picked up a weapon, and then attacked the enemies. Is this supposed to be some amazing AI?

 

[PensOwl]

Um everything here is not true....you must be playing a different TW3 then everyone else. It's world blows away anything Bethesda has done. Maybe your still in white orchard.

I'm in Novigrad. The Witcher 3 is an incredibly static world if you're just trying to mess around. Nothing in the Witcher 3 happens unless you're on a quest.
I haven't seen npcs fighting just because they came across each other and not because its a scripted part of a quest. Npcs never roam outside of their dedicated spawn area. All the loot is leveled and monsters give little xp, which discourages exploration and taking down tough monsters on your own. You can go up to quest items and markers to interact with them, and if Geralt doesn't have the quest, all he does is do his examine animation before walking away. When you're in combat all doors automatically lock. You can kill the Bloody Baron's guards right in front of him and he won't say a word. Bump into an npc doing something and they'll immediately forget what they were doing and do something else, like assassin's creed npcs.

The interconnectivity between quests is amazing, but outside of that...

http://xboxclips.com/OwlPens0/c175aa3a-52bb-4af1-aa0d-218f0ae25a0f/embed

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The way Bethesda approaches RPGs is inherently...not good. You get a big world to explore, but nothing is worth finding because dungeons/loot are copy-pasted level scaled garbage and the towns are lifeless and uninteresting, containing eight NPCs walking stiffly from one point to another.

You weren't really directly comparing Bethesda RPGs to the Witcher 3 here, so this isn't directed at you, or anyone really in particular. I just wanted to say that the Witcher 3 suffers from the bolded too. It's not too long in before you find that pretty much all the loot you get is worthless because it's generally scaled to a level lower than yours, even if you get it from an enemy several levels higher than yours.

I'd also say the towns in the Witcher 3, while having a much higher population than Bethesda's, are pretty dull. The NPCs basically do the same shit all the time. Sometimes they will wonder to a house and go to sleep, but that's about it.

 

[KillerSloth]

Yeah, Impressive how they are always standing in the same two spots repeating the same dialog endlessly. The Witcher is an impressive game for many reasons but not the NPC's

But they don't do that in TW3. ..they work, move go to sleep. Run out of the rain..wander. what game did u play? Not to mention novigrad has as many npcs alone as all of skyrim. Animals randomly attack people etc. .

 

[Tigress]

Cleary he's talking about New Vegas and not 3 right?

Are we talking about me? Cause I'm a she first of all and I'm talking Bethesda games which means 3.

Honestly, aside from running like crap which can be attributed to not given enough time and using Bethesda's engine, New Vegas was almost perfect to me. Yes, it's story isn't as strong but I don't expect a strong story with a game like that. The story was still well done and got me interested though. And it let me pick which side I wanted to be on (something Bethesda could learn *grumble*. For a company that is known for their games being open world/free to do what you want, why are we so railroaded in the main quest? Hell, sometimes we are railroaded on other areas too *cough* I wanted to get rid of the Thieves Guild *cough*). The characters were very well done and I loved having to do quests to find out their full story. I haven't yet even gotten to Arcade's and from what I've heard of it it sounds interesting (I did get to play with Veronica and Boone though).

New Vegas is honestly the game i really hope Bethesda takes a lot of lessons from (cause it is trying to do what they do but it did it so much better. There's only a few things I think Bethesda did better, atmosphere and I liked dialogue checks being a random check where higher skill meant more likely of success rather than just needing the skill to be so high and worse, letting me know what I needed my skill at to succeed in the check. I liked the idea that some choices were more risky and not knowing if they would work if I tried them).

There is some stuff I'd say I'd have them take from Witcher over Vegas but it's mostly stuff like having some real puzzles in there (not just same puzzle over and over. I like puzzles in my RPG. They tried with Skyrim but were really lazy with it. Witcher doesn't do it as much but when they do, it's fun to figure out). And I do like tracking and having to figure out mysteries (but a lot of sidequests/contracts are this and really if you look at it overall, instead of a lot of fetch quests we have a lot of track quests ).

And I'd like them to take lessons in combat from Dragon's Dogma (at least melee combat. I honestly am fine with the shooting in New Vegas).

 

[jay]

The big thing Bethesda does, for me, is how every game item can be picked up and interacted with. There's a much more personal connection to the game world when it's designed like that. Every interior is handcrafted, every house tells its own story.

I never really cared for 99% of everything in a game to be entirely irrelevant to the game. My life is already cluttered with meaningless stuff so I prefer games to be a little more focused.

Edit: As an aside, I'm playing New Vegas for the first time and am shocked by how infrequently any ones dialog changes based on completing quests. It's been explained to me that effort went into crafting factions so I can only assume this came at the expense of updating what characters say. I made a robot a sheriff and he still asks me if I want to hear about the museum he used to work in. What the fuck is that?

 

[KillerSloth]

I'm in Novigrad. The Witcher 3 is an incredibly static world if you're just trying to mess around. Nothing in the Witcher 3 happens unless you're on a quest.
I haven't seen npcs fighting just because they came across each other and not because its a scripted part of a quest. Npcs never roam outside of their dedicated spawn area. All the loot is leveled and monsters give little xp, which discourages exploration and taking down tough monsters on your own. You can go up to quest items and markers to interact with them, and if Geralt doesn't have the quest, all he does is do his examine animation before walking away. When you're in combat all doors automatically lock. You can kill the Bloody Baron's guards right in front of him and he won't say a word. Bump into an npc doing something and they'll immediately forget what they were doing and do something else, like assassin's creed npcs.

The interconnectivity between quests is amazing, but outside of that...

http://xboxclips.com/OwlPens0/c175aa3a-52bb-4af1-aa0d-218f0ae25a0f/embed

I see npcs wander all the time and skyrim AI is the same only skyrim towns have 20 people. TW3 is way more impressive Imo considering how barren npc population is in Bethesda games. Only select npcs in Bethesda games move anywhere as well. No game has full dynamic npc movement.

 

[TGO]

I hate WRPG's, I really do
I find Skyrim boring and just a badly made game with a whole scope which look great on paper but handled by amateurs, everything about it is why I hate WRPG's so much.......but it's not WRPG's thats actually the problem because I've played 3 weeks none stop of The Witcher 3 and it's my GOTY so far.
So it's just bad games I don't like

 

[TrounceX]

All I know is I put 200+ hours into Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim each, but I've stopped playing TW3 about 10 hours in and don't plan on going back.

TW3 is one of those games that sounds amazing on paper but ended up being boring in practice.

If I had to put my finger on why, it has a lot to do with how much more open and interactive Bethesdas worlds are. It's a better sandbox in other words. I spend most of my time messing around with the game mechanics, screwing with the AI, and just generally seeing what I can get away with inside the sandbox.

Basically, I would rather create my own story than follow one created by the developers. This is just my opinion.

 

[rashbeep]

It's a hard comparison to make, because they are so different, but TW3 just makes Bethesda games feel lazy. And that is a hard thing to say, given how long their development times are. The wealth of interesting side content in TW is staggering. I like the freedom that TES games provide, but so much of the actual content feels like a write-off.

 

[toastyToast]

I'll put it like this. The Witcher 3 is an open world RPG for people who may not even like open world RPGs.

Things are laid out very specifically. If you go through an area that strikes you as out of the ordinary bet that a quest will take you through there. If you see a lighthouse with fog surrounding it, it's not a prop, something went down there that you'll come to hear about and look into. A ramshackle town depending on a choice you make has a story related to it. The quest is completely missable. Sure there are some open world amusements but overwhelmingly the world is is meaningful and it'll unravel itself to you. Despite how it may seem, the world isn't a sandbox. Some people might not be cool with that but completely I appreciate it. It's the design of a linear game spread out over an area. Something I've been asking for for years now.

 

[Parmadillo Marshmallow]

I never played Skyrim, but I did play the hell out of Morrowind and Oblivion. The thing those games do way better than Witcher 3 is "variety". They just have so much more variety in NPC's, locations, and architecture.

Witcher 3 feels very homogenous. Every village (in Velen) basically looks the same. The vast majority of NPC's are human, with the occasional elf/dwarf thrown in.

Compare that to Morrowind or Oblivion, where there are so many different visually diverse races running around, and each village has a truly unique look and feel.

 

[Dmonzy]

Yeah, Impressive how they are always standing in the same two spots repeating the same dialog endlessly. The Witcher is an impressive game for many reasons but not the NPC's

We're talking about Skyrim right? Because that's exactly what the NPCs did in that game. Every guard in the world took an arrow to the knee apparently.

 

[KillerSloth]

I never played Skyrim, but I did play the hell out of Morrowind and Oblivion. The thing those games do way better than Witcher 3 is "variety". They just have so much more variety in NPC's, locations, and architecture.

Witcher 3 feels very homogenous. Every village (in Velen) basically looks the same. The vast majority of NPC's are human, with the occasional elf/dwarf thrown in.

Compare that to Morrowind or Oblivion, where there are so many different visually diverse races running around, and each village has a truly unique look and feel.

Huh? The witcher 3 npc variety puts any game Bethesda to shame. It has more variety then it as well in everything except architecture. But what TW3 has variety is vastly more important.

 

[Lothars]

I hate WRPG's, I really do
I find Skyrim boring and just a badly made game with a whole scope which look great on paper but handled by amateurs, everything about it is why I hate WRPG's so much.......but it's not WRPG's thats actually the problem because I've played 3 weeks none stop of The Witcher 3 and it's my GOTY so far.
So it's just bad games I don't like

Ok, Skyrim is not a bad game, it's a great game and it sounds like the Witcher 3 is as well.

 

[Parmadillo Marshmallow]

I hate WRPG's, I really do
I find Skyrim boring and just a badly made game with a whole scope which look great on paper but handled by amateurs, everything about it is why I hate WRPG's so much.......but it's not WRPG's thats actually the problem because I've played 3 weeks none stop of The Witcher 3 and it's my GOTY so far.
So it's just bad games I don't like

Western RPG's can't seem to get combat right at all. I cannot think of a western RPG with action combat that feels "tight". The Japanese just do it so much better. Think: Souls series, Monster Hunter series, hell even Dragon's Dogma had excellent combat.

 

[anothertech]

Only real difference I see is create your own hero vs premade hero. They both have their strong points.

Creating your own hero gives you that whole mini game of customization and really gets your creative juices flowing. Something many people love, including myself.

Having a premade hero on the other hand makes for a much deeper story that the gamer can grow to connect with over a long period of time over the franchise. Much less so when every gamer makes their own hero each game. There is still some customization, as RPGs go, weapons and armor and skills.

That's really it. Oh, and females in witcher - they just look better. That's a thing that matters to some.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

You weren't really directly comparing Bethesda RPGs to the Witcher 3 here, so this isn't directed at you, or anyone really in particular. I just wanted to say that the Witcher 3 suffers from the bolded too. It's not too long in before you find that pretty much all the loot you get is worthless because it's generally scaled to a level lower than yours, even if you get it from an enemy several levels higher than yours.

I'd also say the towns in the Witcher 3, while having a much higher population than Bethesda's, are pretty dull. The NPCs basically do the same shit all the time. Sometimes they will wonder to a house and go to sleep, but that's about it.

Yeah, if there's one major thing W3 does wrong, IMO, it's loot. I've found so much loot, and it's so rarely anywhere near my level, that it's incredibly discouraging.

I think finding/crafting items should have been balanced such that if you can get it or make it, you can use it. The level restrictions are really fucking annoying, and when shit happens like fighting a level 30 monster and then finding a level 10 sword in the chest behind it, that's pretty fucking terrible too.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

The Radiant AI stuff alone eats Witcher 3's lunch tbh. No other developer is out there making AI which the kind of autonomy that Bethesda does. Leads to some incredibly crazy stuff happening. Can also be the cause of the game breaking horribly but when the Radiant AI stuff works its goddamn impressive.

...and then you get into combat and the AI is about as bad as I've seen in a major video game.

The Elder Scrolls games offer something that no other game does to the same degree: immersion. You can choose your play style, you can choose your home, you can choose your appearance. You have books that are actual books, you can pick up the food people are eating and even the silverware. You can kill nearly anyone - except for children, ugh.

So it's true that the games are somewhat unique. But, they are still heavily flawed. At the end of the day, the games just are dull to play and the writing is mostly flaccid. I think The Witcher 3 is clearly and objectively a better game. I prefer to play The Witcher 3. However, I won't deny that there is a magic to Bethesda open world games that always excited.

Fallout is the better series by the way.

 

[è£ ç”²æ‚ªé¬¼æ‘æ­£]

I'd also say the towns in the Witcher 3, while having a much higher population than Bethesda's, are pretty dull. The NPCs basically do the same shit all the time. Sometimes they will wonder to a house and go to sleep, but that's about it.

That's ok though, NPC in The Witcher 3 create a great atmosphere of a living, believable world. NPCs in Bethesda's games do fucking nothing except wander in one direction, stand still, turn on the spot and walk back. All ten of them. In some of the worlds biggest cities. lol wtf is that.

How can someone walk through Novigrad with its bazillion NPCs, butchers slicing meat, blacksmiths smithing, children playing in the slums, workers carrying stuff at the docks, troupes performing at market places, and then think "man, I sure wish this had Bethesda's amazing Radiant A.I."

Bethesda's worlds are so goddamn lifeless and empty, total immersion killer.

 

[Kamina]

To wveryone who says Witcher 3 is superior to Skyrim:

You are right in a way, but bear in mind that there are nearly 4 years inbetween. And in my opinion CDPR most likely saw what Skyrim did, what was good and what was bad, and appearently learend from it.
Now that doesnt mean these two games are the same, or even "very similar" but similar enough to relate them and let some of the better elements influence newer games in progress.

Skyrim's strenght, which completely overshadows The Witcher's æquivalent, is the fact that you can be who you want.
You have many options to create, shape and customize your character, in both visuals and gameplay. While in Witcher you have to play a preshaped character with limited varities in gameplay and RPG options.

 

[IoCaster]

Maybe I'm missing something amazing here but it seems the NPC just went and picked up a weapon, and then attacked the enemies. Is this supposed to be some amazing AI?

Basically the unscripted part where she ran into a separate room, opened a weapon display case and armed herself. How many games have NPC AI that does shit like that totally impromptu and as a response to some random event like vampires being spawned into a location?

 

[KillerSloth]

That's ok though, NPC in The Witcher 3 create a great atmosphere of a living, believable world. NPCs in Bethesda's games do fucking nothing except wander in one direction, stand still, turn on the spot and walk back. All ten of them. In some of the worlds biggest cities. lol wtf is that.

How can someone walk through Novigrad with its bazillion NPCs, butchers slicing meat, blacksmiths smithing, children playing in the slums, workers carrying stuff at the docks, troupes performing at market places, and then think "man, I sure wish this had Bethesda's amazing Radiant A.I."

Bethesda's worlds are so goddamn lifeless and empty, total immersion killer.

Nailed it. Npcs in TW3 are so much more believable. Npcs in Bethesda games and their world's are lifeless robots.

 

[Arkeband]

Basically the unscripted part where she ran into a separate room, opened a weapon display case and armed herself. How many games have NPC AI that does shit like that totally impromptu and as a response to some random event like vampires being spawned into a location?

I think this is more mind blowing to you because you didn't expect there to be ANY AI, rather than there being AI in place to seek adjacent rooms for the best weapon - which by itself isn't all that crazy.

You can compare this singular instance of unexpected AI behavior to the complete lack of AI when it comes to companions killing themselves (or you) accidentally by triggering those swinging wall spike traps.

It isn't like the AI is coming up with rules on the fly, they're still pre-programmed (overwhelmingly poorly). Radiant AI basically only affected my full playthrough of the game by making NPC's go to sleep at bedtime, whereas in Morrowind they'd lock the door or stay standing up.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Witcher3: Find Ciri, help her. On the way you can do this and that because you are a witcher, a character pretty important in the game world.

Skyrim: Save the world. On the way you can be everything you want, from harry potter to robin hood, because you are a walking god, the chosen one and this world is your theme park.

I think is easier to make a more refined, well crafted and coherent experience with the first approach, I also personally prefer that, but it doesn't mean the other one isn't fun.

Eh, I enjoyed Skyrim quite a lot but Harry Potter and Robin Hood both have character, something still lacking in Bethesda games. I do like the fact that you feel powerful in Skyrim, but I don't think that is a strength in wrpgs compared to say the FF games. I am willing to bet the kind of abilities and powers you get will dwarf Skyrim.

 

[PensOwl]

I see npcs wander all the time and skyrim AI is the same only skyrim towns have 20 people. TW3 is way more impressive Imo considering how barren npc population is in Bethesda games. Only select npcs in Bethesda games move anywhere as well. No game has full dynamic npc movement.

Ah, I was talking about enemy npcs there. They only follow you out to a certain radius which sucks, I was trying to get a group of wolves to attack this wandering merchant, but they wouldn't go outside their little area so I scared the merchant into running through the wolf area but they just ignored him.

All of this was because I couldn't attack him myself, only raise my fist and snap my fingers like a jazz dancer but with a fucked up face and two swords

 

[tuxfool]

Yeah, Impressive how they are always standing in the same two spots repeating the same dialog endlessly. The Witcher is an impressive game for many reasons but not the NPC's

If you'd care to explain or illustrate how the npcs in Beth games are significantly better because they move around?

There are NPCs in the witcher that do travel around the world. You can even follow rescued NPCs all the way back to the place they were kidnapped from.

 

[Flachmatuch]

"Radiant AI" my ass. NPCs moved around in Wizardry 7, you could meet them randomly all over the world, they stole quest stuff. You could kill and loot them at any time you wanted. You talked to them not through a menu but through keywords. Its combat system was super fun too.

 

[Keasar]

You're kidding right? Radiant AI is like that episode of Rick and Morty when they are stuck in the computer program created by stupid aliens.

Yeah, honestly I am a lot more impressed with how The Witcher 3 handles NPCs who react to things like the weather etc.

Maybe they all don't have a detailed day and night schedule with a home each they try to get to, with a bed to sleep in etc. but they feel way more alive and about during the day.

 

[tuxfool]

Western RPG's can't seem to get combat right at all. I cannot think of a western RPG with action combat that feels "tight". The Japanese just do it so much better. Think: Souls series, Monster Hunter series, hell even Dragon's Dogma had excellent combat.

Except these games don't do much else beyond that (Beyond the exceptional Souls level and monster design).

 

[ICKE]

I have to be honest here. A lot of people are blown away by Witcher 3, because the story is well written. Now that I'm playing the game for the second time, the faults are rather evident though.

-Passive A.I
-A broken combat system where everything revolves around stunning/parrying the enemy and hitting your opponent a few times.

But even if I don't really enjoy the gameplay that much, W3 is so much more entertaining than Skyrim. The world is simply not immersive in Bethesda games, because the script is bland and the NPCs are lifeless.

Exploration can be somewhat enjoyable though. I actually enjoyed the introduction to Oblivion. Sneaking around in that dungeon was fun and at that point it felt like the game had a lot of promise.

 

[tuxfool]

To wveryone who says Witcher 3 is superior to Skyrim:

You are right in a way, but bear in mind that there are nearly 4 years inbetween. And in my opinion CDPR most likely saw what Skyrim did, what was good and what was bad, and appearently learend from it.
Now that doesnt mean these two games are the same, or even "very similar" but similar enough to relate them and let some of the better elements influence newer games in progress.

Skyrim's strenght, which completely overshadows The Witcher's æquivalent, is the fact that you can be who you want.
You have many options to create, shape and customize your character, in both visuals and gameplay. While in Witcher you have to play a preshaped character with limited varities in gameplay and RPG options.

I'm sure everyone has it in mind that Skyrim is a lot older (W2 era even). However most people don't feel optimistic that Bethesda will have improved in the areas people are complaining about. We'll see in a FO4 if that has significantly changed (one can hope).

 

[Grief.exe]

The Radiant AI stuff alone eats Witcher 3's lunch tbh. No other developer is out there making AI which the kind of autonomy that Bethesda does. Leads to some incredibly crazy stuff happening. Can also be the cause of the game breaking horribly but when the Radiant AI stuff works its goddamn impressive.

 

[Nemmy]

*sighs and puts that old "betrayed Morrowind fangirl" tshirt on*
I get what you mean when you say that no other game is like a Bethesda game (even though I can't stand those nowadays - Fallout NV was a step in the right direction, but I still found it disappointing on the whole). You know what I always find crazy in Bethesda games? How they cut no corners when it comes to detail. When I first played Morrowind and I found out I can pick separate spoons off people's tables, or quill pens, or any other random item because everything is "interactive" (in the most basic sense anyway) - my mind was blown. I thought that this has to be the future of videogames - that soon every game will let me read every single book I see opened on someone's desk. Some years after Morrowind came out, I kept complaining when I couldn't do it in new games because "come on, TES III let me do it years ago!!!"
And then there was the fact that the game remembered everything I did perfectly. There are so many games that will just clear all my discarded items when I leave an area, but Morrowind remembered everything. I can't believe how much time I spent arranging gems on a table back in the day just because I COULD. And they'd stay that way. Holy shit.
So in that sense, no other game comes close to Bethesda's games. And I find it kinda sad now after all these years, when Bethesda (IMHO) never progressed past what made Morrowind so good and no other developer ever matched what they achieved back then.

But Bethesda games also have this sense of disconnection. Like someone else already said here in the thread, my character is a soulless husk. It's a doll that I can shape to look however I please (lol no, I can actually shape them only as well as the shitty character creator will let me, but never mind), but no matter how I play, I can't give them actual character. And the world, no matter how detailed and how finely crafted, always feels like a simulation that was started as I was coming near. It's not alive, it's animated. All NPCs are boring and dull, all dialogue is stiff and unnatural, everything looks and feels great on the surface but there's nothing below it, the surface is all there is.

You know what I wish? I wish Bethesda created actual stories with actual choices, and crafted some actual depth in their games. And I wish other developers looked at Morrowind and said "how can our games have so many static assets that do nothing when this was possible 15 years ago?!"

But it's probably impossible.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I'm sure everyone has it in mind that Skyrim is a lot older (W2 era even). However most people don't feel optimistic that Bethesda will have improved in the areas people are complaining about. We'll see in a FO4 if that has significantly changed (one can hope).

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing if Bethesda read constructive criticism aimed at Skyrim and tried to improve the areas they were lacking or if they just said "20 million sales says we are awesome and don't have anything to learn!"

 

[TemplaerDude]

You're right when you say nothing is like Bethesda games, since no one else uses such an ancient, archaic bullshit broken-ass engine for their fucking games and refuses to change it because the gopher masses eat up all of their over rated garbage.

 

[Kamina]

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing if Bethesda read constructive criticism aimed at Skyrim and tried to improve the areas they were lacking or if they just said "20 million sales says we are awesome and don't have anything to learn!"

I think we already saw that they improved quite a lot from Oblivion to Skyrim. That doesn't mean all they did was right, but they definitely provided a lot enhancements over Oblivion..

 

[Lunar15]

They're definitely different games with different goals. Bethesda games are about being what you want to be, and ultimately being able to do everything. Witcher games are linear, even if they are open world. You're not a blank state, you're Geralt. I prefer the linearity though. I don't really like how open-ended Bethesda games are.

That said, both have quest lines, and one of the two games has way better writing for its quests. I think Bethesda can learn from that at least.

Not sure about the hate on W3's AI though. A lot of them have completely believable behavior patterns.

 

[LeBart]

You're right when you say nothing is like Bethesda games, since no one else uses such an ancient, archaic bullshit broken-ass engine for their fucking games and refuses to change it because the gopher masses eat up all of their over rated garbage.

 

[tuxfool]

Yeah, honestly I am a lot more impressed with how The Witcher 3 handles NPCs who react to things like the weather etc.

Maybe they all don't have a detailed day and night schedule with a home each they try to get to, with a bed to sleep in etc. but they feel way more alive and about during the day.

But this is exactly what the Witcher 3 NPCs do. Try following an NPC through the day as they wake up, go to the fields, work and then go to bed (in their own house).

 

[Netherscourge]

I prefer Skyrim's combat over the Witcher 3's combat.

Witcher 3 combat feels stale and boring. Skyrim gives you a lot more options.Not to mention there's a whole stealth/sneaking side of Skyrim that the Witcher 3 doesn't even have.

Story-wise, they are both awesome. Great characters. Lots of fun, suspense, lore.

Witcher 3 is great, but I still prefer Skyrim for the greater number of options you have when interacting within the game world.

 

[Mononoke]

I prefer Skyrim's combat over the Witcher 3's combat.

Witcher 3 combat feels stale and boring. Skyrim gives you a lot more options.

Story-wise, they are both awesome. Great characters. Lots of fun, suspense, lore.

Not to mention there's a whole stealth/sneaking side of Skyrim that the Witcher 3 doesn't even have.

Witcher 3 is great, but I still prefer Skyrim for the greater number of options you have.

Wow, really? Even with Skyrim's improvements, I still found the combat to be kind of..janky/stilted. I don't know. Guess I can't argue with Witcher 3 being boring since it kind of lacks diversity. I personally enjoyed it, but can see where it would get repetitive.

For me, Skyrim's saving grace will always be the first person aspect + being able to create your own character. It's the actual role playing element. But I still truly believe that Skyrim had really weak characters/writing overall compared to Morrowind + Oblivion + Fallout and The Witcher 3.