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Wii 2 (Project Cafe): Officially Announced, Playable At E3, Launching 2012 [Updated]

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VisanidethDM said:
There's some great gamebuilding to be done around such a pad (Aliens-inspired FPS... the pad screen acts as the sonar-thing
Okay, I just had what seems (right now) like an awesome idea after reading this part of your post.

The TV screen is almost completely black. You can fire your weapon to briefly illuminate your surroundings, but otherwise you see basically nothing; your ammunition is limited, so firing repeatedly to navigate the environment isn't a viable option. The controller screen provides you with a radar/scanner type of interface, possibly overlaid over a simple map, allowing you to traverse the environment and -- more importantly -- see when an enemy/alien/space-raptor/whatever is approaching. Firefights then become a process of negotiating between the two screens: checking the controller to get a basic sense of your orientation and distance from the enemy, then using the TV screen to try and hit the damn thing, your aim confounded by the erratic lighting (you could have a nice visual effect where the afterimage of the muzzleflash lingers on the otherwise dark screen after you stop firing). It would be chaotic, more imprecise than standard shooters, and potentially very difficult, and I can see why some people might not appreciate that...but in terms of establishing a tone and producing some incredibly nerve-wracking gunplay, I think this would be a great experiment to attempt.

There are a whole host of reasons why this probably wouldn't be feasible for an entire game, but for a level or two at least... I think this would be a fucking awesome concept for a survival horror-FPS.

Have at it, game designers!
 

Log4Girlz

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orioto said:
The worst part is that all the pros are wrong...

_No inventory cause no touch screen reachable while using the pad.
_No status on tablet cause you need to look at it quick, meaning on the main game screen.
_No point in that other than being "cool". Having a pop up window on tv is the same.

There is no pros...

Good points captain creative.
 

wsippel

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orioto said:
The worst part is that all the pros are wrong...

_No inventory cause no touch screen reachable while using the pad.
_No status on tablet cause you need to look at it quick, meaning on the main game screen.
_No point in that other than being "cool". Having a pop up window on tv is the same.

There is no pros...
And that's why you're an artist, not a game designer. ;)
 

orioto

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Yeah sorry i hurted your Nintendo feelings but besides funny jokes, can you argue on anything :) ?

I was the bad guy when i was so skeptical about people trying to prove that 3DS could have some kind of new kind of gameplay due to 3D. Yes, right...

And actually, thinking about something like having the ui, status etc.. on a secondary screen is something a game designer wouldn't do ;)
 
May 20, 2007
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orioto said:
I was the bad guy when i was so skeptical about people trying to prove that 3DS could have some kind of new kind of gameplay due to 3D. Yes, right...

Well it may not inspire new styles of gameplay(although its only been out a few months) it can certainly help with older genres (platforming in polygonal 3D)
And actually, thinking about something like having the ui, status etc.. on a secondary screen is something a game designer wouldn't do ;)

Have you never played on the DS?
 

kinggroin

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orioto said:
Yeah sorry i hurted your Nintendo feelings but besides funny jokes, can you argue on anything :) ?

I was the bad guy when i was so skeptical about people trying to prove that 3DS could have some kind of new kind of gameplay due to 3D. Yes, right...

And actually, thinking about something like having the ui, status etc.. on a secondary screen is something a game designer wouldn't do ;)


Using the controllers camera, you can always see who's behind you as you play. Boom.
 

Raide

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orioto said:
Yeah sorry i hurted your Nintendo feelings but besides funny jokes, can you argue on anything :) ?

I was the bad guy when i was so skeptical about people trying to prove that 3DS could have some kind of new kind of gameplay due to 3D. Yes, right...

And actually, thinking about something like having the ui, status etc.. on a secondary screen is something a game designer wouldn't do ;)

I really dislike the idea of shifting my view to another screen, just to check information that could easily be built into the GUI anyway. Maybe handy for an RPG where you can check your inventory, equip spells etc but that would still require you to pause the game, or at least be in a place that was quiet.

I am sure Developers will come up with some interesting way to use it but I can see the majority just throwing all the stuff that should be on a well design UI, right onto the small screen.
 

orioto

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Cerebral Assassin said:
Have you never played on the DS?

Having two small screen among each other and a tv far away and a screen in your hands isn't the same thing.

My only point is that Nintendo doesn't tell us a big thing, or there is a problem.

And the fact is that recently, Nintendo innovations are less about "wow, that will make games so cool", than "that'll definitely add cool features to some specific genre into specific situation, don't worry, we'll find something to use it". The whole discussion is proving that.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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orioto said:
I was the bad guy when i was so skeptical about people trying to prove that 3DS could have some kind of new kind of gameplay due to 3D. Yes, right...

Nobody said that 3D would result in new types of gameplay but improvements on existing gameplay due to 3D. Which it has.
 

Raide

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orioto said:
Having two small screen among each other and a tv far away and a screen in your hands isn't the same thing.

Exactly. No wonder the PSP option to use it as another screen did not take off. Try watching TV and keep looking down at your phone over and over. My neck is already killing me. :D
 

VisanidethDM

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manueldelalas said:
I disagree completely with you.

First: How the hell do you play Street Fighter with the 360 pad??? the D-Pad is broken and very uncomfortable, if you don't play it with an arcade stick, you are doing it wrong.

Second: Nintendo has a track of releasing the most drop conscious controllers ever. All of their machines and consoles are sturdy and very difficult to break [insert immortal GB here].

Third: There is absolutely no reason for developers to implement "inferior" versions of games this time around. This generation already has it's Dreamcast power-wise (the Xbox 360), and developers make the best version of their games on that console. Obviously, for quick ports, the controller screen will be a last minute addition, but that happens with a lot of DS games, and there is no harm done in that. Also, because this will probably be the first console released next generation, it won't be the console to port games to, but the console to port games from.

The cons are not massive, because we don't know how the controller will be, we have absolutely no idea; all we know is that it'll have a 6'' screen and dual analogs.

1. I'm a fairly competent Street Fighter player, and yes, I wouldn't use an X360 pad for SF, but I demolish stick players with a DS3 with frequency. My point is that a pad that isn't comfortable is not gonna support reaction based gameplay well. The double pad solution is workable, but I was expecting Nintendo to learn from past mistakes.

2. There's no way to make an LCD drop-proof. The iPhone goes very, very close, but it's an incredibly expensive machine. Sturdy and cheap... not likely.

3. Your assumption that developers will create games around the console with the smallest installed base and then downgrade them for the actual market is amusing. PS360 has a total installed base probably around 50 million active units. I'm sure the next 3 CoD games will use that technology, and not the Cafè, as the lead platforms.
 

Raide

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Wolves Evolve said:
I'm using a laptop and watching a film in the background right now with no problem. I think this is relatively common.

As long as both are at a similar eye level. The more you have to shift your head, the more stress it will put on you. If I am playing games, the pad is on my lap and the TV is right in front of me. I have to shift my viewpoint a huge amount just to look at the pad.
 

orioto

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Flying_Phoenix said:
Nobody said that 3D would result in new types of gameplay but improvements on existing gameplay due to 3D. Which it has.

Yes yes, people were actually trying to prove that 3D was a groundbreaking gameplay innovation. i even remember a guy imagining a game that you could only play with 3D, by using the depth to aim.
 

Dystify

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orioto said:
The worst part is that all the pros are wrong...

_No inventory cause no touch screen reachable while using the pad.
_No status on tablet cause you need to look at it quick, meaning on the main game screen.
_No point in that other than being "cool". Having a pop up window on tv is the same.

There is no pros...
I find it hard to believe that Nintendo would actually release something as the main draw to their system when it's just a useless gimmick.

I won't argue whether the tablet is good or bad, as we simply don't know any facts about it right now.

Have some faith though, Nintendo's not stupid. I know whatever they'll release will be enjoyable and fun to play with / on.

I know this topic is to discuss those rumors. I usually enjoy reading it but don't like it when Nintendo gets called doomed by some trolls over them.
 
May 20, 2007
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orioto said:
And the fact is that recently, Nintendo innovations are less about "wow, that will make games so cool", than "that'll definitely add cool features to some specific genre into specific situation, don't worry, we'll find something to use it". The whole discussion is proving that.

So an innovation isn't worth having unless it reinvents the wheel? Also its a bit hard to discuss gameplay implications without actually seeing the pad.
 

wsippel

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orioto said:
Yeah sorry i hurted your Nintendo feelings but besides funny jokes, can you argue on anything :) ?

I was the bad guy when i was so skeptical about people trying to prove that 3DS could have some kind of new kind of gameplay due to 3D. Yes, right...

And actually, thinking about something like having the ui, status etc.. on a secondary screen is something a game designer wouldn't do ;)
Don't worry, it takes a lot more than that to hurt my (PC gamer, mostly) feelings.

Most of the concepts you already dismissed are actually pretty good if done right. I believe the two most worthwhile concepts are status displays and multiplayer stuff like messaging. Sure, you could do most of that with modal screens as well, but those disrupt the flow, which is especially bad in multiplayer games as modal screens won't pause the game. Looking at a secondary display is much faster and more intuitive. To give you a very simple example: Assuming you drive, do you think it would be a good idea if you had a button on your steering wheel that, when pushed, folds out a giant display with your speed and RPM meters, navi and car radio in front of your windshield, obscuring your view on the road? Terrible idea, right? That's basically what modal screens in games are.

Also, a touchscreen is a great thing for multiplayer games, because you can use it to plan tactics, to quickly draw routes and markers on maps. Guild Wars does something like that - not on a separate display of course, but it also relies on mouse input. Shit idea with sticks, acceptable with mouse input, brillant with a touchscreen.

A third, important aspect is immersion, because the secondary screen emulates how you would do many things in real life. In real life, if you look at a map or check your inventory, you usually don't hold whatever you're looking at up - you hold it similar to how you'd hold a controller and look down. It's completely natural behavior.
 

VisanidethDM

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orioto said:
And actually, thinking about something like having the ui, status etc.. on a secondary screen is something a game designer wouldn't do ;)

That's not true, you're not thinking about this little friend



Once again, there's a ton of info that generally doesn't go on the GUI to avoid clutter; think of MGS3 and the status info, then upgrade it for the Cafè pad, with a nice X-ray GUI that flashes and zooms on the damage part, and sends you aural cues when the offscreen needs your attention.
Think of Vagrant Story, and having the ability to check the status of your armor and the alignement of your weapons in real time, without pausing.
Think of Resident Evil, and having your status and health and all that stuff available without having to pause (NO WAIT YOU CAN'T PAUSE BITCH CAUSE THIS IS SURVIVAL HORROR etc or whatnot).
Think of an RPG where you can put 20 or so "keybinds" on your touchpad to try and reach the flexibility of a PC environment.
Think of a Thief game where picklocking is a touch based minigame on the touchpad, and the game doesn't pause and zoom out during picklocks, and you can still move and be spotted etc on the main screen.


The potential is huge, and it's there. The enemy is the market, not the pad itself.
 

orioto

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Strive said:
I find it hard to believe that Nintendo would actually release something as the main draw to their system when it's just a useless gimmick.

I won't argue whether the tablet is good or bad, as we simply don't know any facts about it right now.

Have some faith though, Nintendo's not stupid. I know whatever they'll release will be enjoyable and fun to play with / on.

I know this topic is to discuss those rumors. I usually enjoy reading it but don't like it when Nintendo gets called doomed by some trolls over them.

Never said they were doomed.

i'm only discussing the fact that they may be clueless.
This whole argument about Nintendo always doing the right and being so great is what i'm fighting against.

What i don't like is their blind race to innovate to differentiate themselves. They are now even saying it loudly. The worst part is people making that a philosophy and some kind of videogame salvation, when it's just a posture to avoid direct fight with others.

Remember NDS. They tried to convince us that it was the ultimate system for fps, due to stylet. Well it wasn't at all. This time it was fine cause the touch thing allowed many cool genres on the console and it worked, but they were already in some kind of "quick, let's find something new, we'll see after".
 

orioto

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VisanidethDM said:
That's not true, you're not thinking about this little friend



Once again, there's a ton of info that generally doesn't go on the GUI to avoid clutter; think of MGS3 and the status info, then upgrade it for the Cafè pad, with a nice X-ray GUI that flashes and zooms on the damage part, and sends you aural cues when the offscreen needs your attention.
Think of Vagrant Story, and having the ability to check the status of your armor and the alignement of your weapons in real time, without pausing.
Think of Resident Evil, and having your status and health and all that stuff available without having to pause (NO WAIT YOU CAN'T PAUSE BITCH CAUSE THIS IS SURVIVAL HORROR etc or whatnot).
Think of an RPG where you can put 20 or so "keybinds" on your touchpad to try and reach the flexibility of a PC environment.
Think of a Thief game where picklocking is a touch based minigame on the touchpad, and the game doesn't pause and zoom out during picklocks, and you can still move and be spotted etc on the main screen.


The potential is huge, and it's there. The enemy is the market, not the pad itself.

yeah those are fine ideas (most interesting than some other posted before), but there is still this problem, about pausing justly...

You don't pause, but you don't look at your tv when you're using the secondary screen.. isn't that .. a pause ??
 

Taker666

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orioto said:
The worst part is that all the pros are wrong...

_No inventory cause no touch screen reachable while using the pad.
_No status on tablet cause you need to look at it quick, meaning on the main game screen.
_No point in that other than being "cool". Having a pop up window on tv is the same.

There is no pros...


1) I guess the iPad is unusable then... because you can't possibly let go of one side to touch the screen.

2) They may as well remove the dashboard off a car then..and all mirrors... as you can't possibly look down to check your speed or check what's behind you in the mirror.....and no point in buying SATNAV as you dare not look at another screen to see where you are going.
 

orioto

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Taker666 said:
1) I guess the iPad is unusable then... because you can't possibly let go of one side to touch the screen.

2) They may as well remove the dashboard off a car then..and all mirrors... as you can't possibly look down to check your speed or check what's behind you in the mirror.....and no point in buying SATNAV as you dare not look at another screen to see where you are going.


1) The ipad hasn't button around it...

2) Hey let's imagine we're in the future. We can now... have oled windows in our car, and display informations that you can control with your hands. WOW people would love that ! And speaking about video game, that would be actually inventing the awesome and unbelievable possibility to pop up informations and menus on screen, magical !
 
May 20, 2007
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orioto said:
What i don't like is their blind race to innovate to differentiate themselves. They are now even saying it loudly. The worst part is people making that a philosophy and some kind of videogame salvation, when it's just a posture to avoid direct fight with others.

Remember NDS. They tried to convince us that it was the ultimate system for fps, due to stylet. Well it wasn't at all. This time it was fine cause the touch thing allowed many cool genres on the console and it worked, but they were already in some kind of "quick, let's find something new, we'll see after".

Read some of the Ask Iwata's on the development of the Wii, that doesn't seem like their philosophy to me (& even if it was its better than "we need to sell a new disc format, quick lets release a new console")
 

Jocchan

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orioto said:
Having two small screen among each other and a tv far away and a screen in your hands isn't the same thing.
It doesn't matter how far your TV is, what matters is the angle between the two screens from your point of view. While definitely wider than the one between the DS screens in most setups and heavily depending on one's habits while holding the controller, I doubt it's going to be a real annoyance in practice.

orioto said:
My only point is that Nintendo doesn't tell us a big thing, or there is a problem.

And the fact is that recently, Nintendo innovations are less about "wow, that will make games so cool", than "that'll definitely add cool features to some specific genre into specific situation, don't worry, we'll find something to use it". The whole discussion is proving that.
From the beginning, my doubt has been that - while not having to rely on your TV all the time is certainly neat, especially if you have a family contending for its use - putting a screen on each controller seems more expensive than actually useful. We'll see.
 

VisanidethDM

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orioto said:
yeah those are fine ideas (most interesting than some other posted before), but there is still this problem, about pausing justly...

You don't pause, but you don't look at your tv when you're using the secondary screen.. isn't that .. a pause ??

By the same token, we could argue that looking at GUI info is a "pause". That's why we often say GUIs are distracting or get in the way. It's one of the great gamedesigning conflicts of this generation. Regenerating health wasn't simply born as a challenge-balancing mechanic, it was also implemented as a tool to streamline GUIs.
Then think of something like Dead Space, how it attempts to remove any GUI from the screen. The way they make it work is pretty brilliant, and if you notice, the inventory is a pause that isn't a pause (you go into the inventory, but the game doesn't pause). It works for Dead Space, but there are genres when MORE info is needed, and the pad could work.

You could have your generic space marine getting comcast info like maps or objectives or codec chats streaming on the pad. It can work.

Heck, we can't know how powerful is the synch between the padscreen and the monitor.

Imagine this game:




except no ghost is EVER shown on screen, and you wield the pad as a camera, and the pad screen streams a zoomed up view of the screen, and that's your camera and there is where you actually see the ghosts, right in your face.

I have a crapaton of perplexities on the pad, but it certainly can be something amazing in the hands of creative game designers.
 

Taker666

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orioto said:
1) The ipad hasn't button around it...

2) Hey let's imagine we're in the future. We can now... have oled windows in our car, and display informations that you can control with your hands. WOW people would love that ! And speaking about video game, that would be actually inventing the awesome and unbelievable possibility to pop up informations and menus on screen, magical !


And how does it matter if the pad does or doesn't have buttons? It's still the same form. You can still take your hand off one side to press another selection on the touchscreen. No difference.

Personally I'd find it amazingly distracting to have a bunch of numbers cluttering the windscreen in front of me. It would obstruct your vision of the road.
 

orioto

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VisanidethDM you have lot of good ideas. Thx at least to try to argue and not just act as i was some sort of troll.

The problem is that yeah, you'll find great original concepts based on the screen, like people found with ds and wii. That's what Nintendo innovation does. It allow for some kind of game to be great and basically, are useless for other games.

Anyway i have to go (to work on some game design oh my, what a shame, and i'm an artist !!) but what i wanted to say is just that i'm pissed with Nintendo strategy. I like Nintendo when they are releasing great games, as Mario Galaxy, and not acting like a bunch of lost guys trying to find a way out. You don't need new controllers and such to make good games and original games. You need a fucking piece of paper and ideas..
 

manueldelalas

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VisanidethDM said:
3. Your assumption that developers will create games around the console with the smallest installed base and then downgrade them for the actual market is amusing. PS360 has a total installed base probably around 50 million active units. I'm sure the next 3 CoD games will use that technology, and not the Cafè, as the lead platforms.
Your assumption that the PS3/360 will be contemporary to the Cafe is amusing. The technology of both consoles is outdated enough that most games on them don't even do 720p; both companies will probably announce new consoles shortly after the Cafe is shown, and will arrive probably late to the party, just like the NGP.
 

Dascu

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orioto said:
VisanidethDM you have lot of good ideas. Thx at least to try to argue and not just act as i was some sort of troll.

The problem is that yeah, you'll find great original concepts based on the screen, like people found with ds and wii. That's what Nintendo innovation does. It allow for some kind of game to be great and basically, are useless for other games.
Isn't this the case for just about every "innovation", be it in controllers or interface?

I mean, there's still a lot of games out there that do not need more than a few buttons and a single d-pad or analog stick. Plenty don't use or need online features. Rumble? Heck, who needs that.

As long as Nintendo isn't cutting down functionality, they can add all the bells and whistles to their controllers that they want. I don't mind if there's only a handful of games that end up using those features, as long as it doesn't interfere with traditional control inputs.
 

.la1n

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orioto said:
Never said they were doomed.

i'm only discussing the fact that they may be clueless.
This whole argument about Nintendo always doing the right and being so great is what i'm fighting against.

What i don't like is their blind race to innovate to differentiate themselves. They are now even saying it loudly. The worst part is people making that a philosophy and some kind of videogame salvation, when it's just a posture to avoid direct fight with others.

Remember NDS. They tried to convince us that it was the ultimate system for fps, due to stylet. Well it wasn't at all. This time it was fine cause the touch thing allowed many cool genres on the console and it worked, but they were already in some kind of "quick, let's find something new, we'll see after".


Could not agree more. E3 needs to show me that the device can be intuitive and not intrusive. It also needs to show that Nintendo grasp the concept that 3rd Parties may want to port games easily and not shoehorn in some new gimmick.
 

Starchasing

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Also this talk about HUD got me thinking that maybe the ATROCIUSLY UGLY hud of skyward sword has something to do with project cafe
 

VisanidethDM

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manueldelalas said:
Your assumption that the PS3/360 will be contemporary to the Cafe is amusing. The technology of both consoles is outdated enough that most games on them don't even do 720p; both companies will probably announce new consoles shortly after the Cafe is shown, and will arrive probably late to the party, just like the NGP.

The problem is that if the Cafè, as currently described, will not be contemporary to whatever Sony and MS will push out next.
If the Cafè didn't look like it's doomed to effectively be the Wii2, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and I would be inclined to believe the other 2 competitors would actually attempt to follow Nintendo's design.
 

AceBandage

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VisanidethDM said:
The problem is that if the Cafè, as currently described, will not be contemporary to whatever Sony and MS will push out next.
If the Cafè didn't look like it's doomed to effectively be the Wii2, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and I would be inclined to believe the other 2 competitors would actually attempt to follow Nintendo's design.


How is it doomed to be the Wii2?
There was a mountain of difference between the 360 and Wii.
That won't be the case next gen, regardless of what MS and Sony decide to use.
 

Phife Dawg

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orioto said:
That's what Nintendo innovation does. It allow for some kind of game to be great and basically, are useless for other games.
Damn dpad, (almost) useless for Decathlon.

What an odd statement.
 

Jocchan

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Starchasing said:
Also this talk about HUD got me thinking that maybe the ATROCIUSLY UGLY hud of skyward sword has something to do with project cafe
I won't lie. The thought of Skyward Sword at 1080p with no atrocious HUD, to me, would be well worth one year of additional wait.
 

manueldelalas

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VisanidethDM said:
The problem is that if the Cafè, as currently described, will not be contemporary to whatever Sony and MS will push out next.
If the Cafè didn't look like it's doomed to effectively be the Wii2, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and I would be inclined to believe the other 2 competitors would actually attempt to follow Nintendo's design.
Unless Sony and MSFT suddenly create new technology, there isn't going to be any noticeable difference between PS4/Xbx3 and Super Wii graphics; the 360 is very inferior to the PS3 in terms of power, but in reality it means nothing, this is the same.
 

Starchasing

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Jocchan said:
I won't lie. The thought of Skyward Sword at 1080p with no atrocious HUD, to me, would be well worth one year of additional wait.

Its weird because most of NIntendo titles have flawless HUDS, and they had so many casual games wth good HUDS that it makes no sense for Zelda to have such a monster!
 

VisanidethDM

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AceBandage said:
How is it doomed to be the Wii2?
There was a mountain of difference between the 360 and Wii.
That won't be the case next gen, regardless of what MS and Sony decide to use.

It's to the very least extremely unlikely that the PS4 and X720 won't be more powerful, tho. The stats we have right now are an upgrade over the X360 architecture, but not the kind of generational leap that would justify a new Sony or MS machine. So when they do come out, and Nintendo is running around with a PS360.5, they'll have painted themselves in a corner again.

I think it all boils down to the third party support strategy. If Nintendo can't persuade 3rd parties to use the Cafè at least as the lead platform in the time between its release and the new MS console release, then they got nothing to win gamers away from console that are getting (possibly inferior) versions of the same games with an extabilished online community.
 

AceBandage

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Guy... the HUD in SS was for the Demo.
Does this really have to be reiterated every single thread?

VisanidethDM said:
It's to the very least extremely unlikely that the PS4 and X720 won't be more powerful, tho. The stats we have right now are an upgrade over the X360 architecture, but not the kind of generational leap that would justify a new Sony or MS machine. So when they do come out, and Nintendo is running around with a PS360.5, they'll have painted themselves in a corner again.

I think it all boils down to the third party support strategy. If Nintendo can't persuade 3rd parties to use the Cafè at least as the lead platform in the time between its release and the new MS console release, then they got nothing to win gamers away from console that are getting (possibly inferior) versions of the same games with an extabilished online community.


They'll have a year or two head start giving them a good userbase and the engines will be scalable to the Cafe.
It won't even be close to the situation the Wii was in, even under the worst case scenario.
 

VisanidethDM

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manueldelalas said:
Unless Sony and MSFT suddenly create new technology, there isn't going to be any noticeable difference between PS4/Xbx3 and Super Wii graphics; the 360 is very inferior to the PS3 in terms of power, but in reality it means nothing, this is the same.

Did we get updated stats for the SuperWii? I'm stuck at the R700-based GPU design, and you don't really need new technology to leave such a thing in a cloud of dust the size of Texas.
 

Mr_Appleby

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orioto said:
Yeah sorry i hurted your Nintendo feelings but besides funny jokes, can you argue on anything :) ?

I was the bad guy when i was so skeptical about people trying to prove that 3DS could have some kind of new kind of gameplay due to 3D. Yes, right...

actually, i forget where now but i'm fairly certain nintendo were quoted saying that no games would be released (at least by them) that required the 3D. probably because many people have difficulty either seeing the effect at all or seeing it for extended periods. i'm in the can't see-it-at-all camp btw, so appreciate this stance.

regarding the cafe i can think of some immediately obvious uses, eg. local multiplayer for 4 swords/pacman style games where players either have seperate screens for when they go "off camera", or where players have seperate screens so that they have private information about the gameworld. no more this:



the one time we got our whole family together with four gba's etc. to play 4 swords it was magnificent. plus i've got a feeling cafe is designed around local multiplayer - people go to cafe's to socialize, right?
 

Jocchan

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Starchasing said:
Its weird because most of NIntendo titles have flawless HUDS, and they had so many casual games wth good HUDS that it makes no sense for Zelda to have such a monster!
Yes, the one they seem to be using for Skyward Sword is uselessly intrusive. Do they really need a Wiimote shape eating up one third of the screen all the time? If they really want to show how the icons are placed similarly to the remote, couldn't they just show it once in the beginning of the game and then fade it out? So weird. I really hope it's not going to be in the final game.
 

Dystify

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Jocchan said:
Yes, the one they seem to be using for Skyward Sword is uselessly intrusive. Do they really need a Wiimote shape eating up one third of the screen all the time? If they really want to show how the icons are placed similarly to the remote, couldn't they just show it once in the beginning of the game and then fade it out? So weird. I really hope it's not going to be in the final game.

->

AceBandage said:
Guy... the HUD in SS was for the Demo.
Does this really have to be reiterated every single thread?
 

manueldelalas

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VisanidethDM said:
Did we get updated stats for the SuperWii? I'm stuck at the R700-based GPU design, and you don't really need new technology to leave such a thing in a cloud of dust the size of Texas.
It has been talked a number of times on this thread by people that are much more intelligent and technically minded than both of us; summarizing, there isn't going to be any major difference in terms of graphics between the Cafe and the other companies next generation consoles; that's the major win for Nintendo, and will be an important headstart for them.
 

Retro

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VisanidethDM said:
By the same token, we could argue that looking at GUI info is a "pause". That's why we often say GUIs are distracting or get in the way. It's one of the great gamedesigning conflicts of this generation. Regenerating health wasn't simply born as a challenge-balancing mechanic, it was also implemented as a tool to streamline GUIs.
Then think of something like Dead Space, how it attempts to remove any GUI from the screen. The way they make it work is pretty brilliant, and if you notice, the inventory is a pause that isn't a pause (you go into the inventory, but the game doesn't pause). It works for Dead Space, but there are genres when MORE info is needed, and the pad could work.

You could have your generic space marine getting comcast info like maps or objectives or codec chats streaming on the pad. It can work.

Heck, we can't know how powerful is the synch between the padscreen and the monitor.

Imagine this game:




except no ghost is EVER shown on screen, and you wield the pad as a camera, and the pad screen streams a zoomed up view of the screen, and that's your camera and there is where you actually see the ghosts, right in your face.

I have a crapaton of perplexities on the pad, but it certainly can be something amazing in the hands of creative game designers.

Kinda did a mockup of the same thing last week;
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27234297&postcount=11573

The Luigi's Mansion thing would need a screen-facing camera, but the Sniper thing still works.

Totally talking out my ass here, but maybe the "Main Feature" combines the Television Screen, Controller Screen and the Front-facing camera for an Augmented Reality-type experience.

SHAMELESSLY Borrowing Graphics Horse's awesome mockup

For example, you might be playing Luigi's Mansion 2 and lift your controller up so you're 'looking through' the screen at the TV and it shows ghosts coming out of your screen to attack you.



Or you hold up the screen and it switches to 'sniper mode' and your personal screen zooms while your regular TV stays the same (but responds appropriately to what you're pointing the system at).



Because the console is streaming to the controller, it can't put out so much power. HOWEVER, that doesn't matter because when you're doing this streaming, you're not really looking at the TV anyways. It might switch on and off quickly.

Perhaps another part of that is actually taking the controller away from the TV and still be streaming for continued play in other locations. Maybe the camera can act as a light sensor, or there's some image-recognition based gameplay (Wii Scavenger Hunt?).



Just a thought. Depending on how long Nintendo has been cooking this up, there could be a hundred different ways to use it. But a Screen PLUS Foward-facing camera, I think, is kind of hinting towards you pointing the controller at things.
 
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