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[z0m3le]

I am not convinced. And besides that, I'd argue it doesnt matter all that much.

Imagine Wii was 50, 75% more powerful than it was in reality. Would it have garnered more 3rd party support? I'd argue, not really.

I used to argue Nintendo should have equipped Wii with a X1600XT GPU. A nice, very featured, fast, cheap, GPU of the time, that would have ran circles around Hollywood, but still not challenged RSX/Xenos. But I have to admit in my heart of hearts, I realized it probably would have made no difference except cost Nintendo more money.

You need to be in the ballpark. Even a modest 30% less powerful is probably a death sentence imo.

How exactly do you explain last gen then?

Or PCs?

Heck some would argue ps3 is that much more powerful than 360.

 

[The_Lump]

You need to be in the ballpark. Even a modest 30% less powerful is probably a death sentence imo.

Just out of interest (as this comes up alot) But how would we actually measure relative graphical power in a percentage? Like if the Wii U was sat in front of us and we knew its specifications, and we had the same infor for PS4: What are we actually measuring to say "30% less powerful" or "75% more powerful" etc etc?

Back in the day it used to be poly counts but now i'm not so sure what is relevant.

 

[Bamstrokher]

I am not convinced. And besides that, I'd argue it doesnt matter all that much.

Imagine Wii was 50, 75% more powerful than it was in reality. Would it have garnered more 3rd party support? I'd argue, not really.

I used to argue Nintendo should have equipped Wii with a X1600XT GPU. A nice, very featured, fast, cheap, GPU of the time, that would have ran circles around Hollywood, but still not challenged RSX/Xenos. But I have to admit in my heart of hearts, I realized it probably would have made no difference except cost Nintendo more money.

You need to be in the ballpark. Even a modest 30% less powerful is probably a death sentence imo.

I am confused by that statement. What constitutes a death sentence to Nintendo in your eyes? Is it 95 million consoles sold and counting? Is it twenty games that have sold more than five million copies? What about one hundred fifty games that have sold more than a million copies? If Wii U moved those numbers, would that be a "death sentence"?

 

[GameplayWhore]

What do you guys think the likelihood of HD'd N64, gamcube and Wii games coming to the Wii U eshop is? I think this could be a great thing for them to offer to really build up the library of games in a short amount of time. They dont have to offer a bunch of new content or any new content, just upres them. Sorta like the 3D classics on the 3DS, this could be the "HD Classics"

I would have said something snarky like "Pfft, Nintendo wouldn't do an improved version of an earlier game as a digital download, because they'd want to rerelease the game in the retail space for mucho dinero". But that argument is all hazy now that the retail space includes downloadables.

I think what'll happen is that Nintendo will price 720p N64/GC games much higher than regular VC games, hopefully only in the realm of the "Nintendo Selects" series but probably a bit beyond that.

Thanks bg, some good reads there.

BTW: Any big devs use FMOD?

Yuke's, if the game features John Cena.

 

[specialguy]

How exactly do you explain last gen then?

Or PCs?

Heck some would argue ps3 is that much more powerful than 360.

I explain it that PS2 was much more entrenched, got off to a fast start worldwide, and Xbox/GC were the newcomers plagued by poor software support. Sony was the 900 lb gorilla. There isn't one of those this time. The gen was shorter too, only 4 years, giving the more powerful box (Xbox) less time to catch up.

I think the difference between Ps3 and 360 is +/- 10% (and as a testament to how close they are, I'm not entirely sure which is in the lead). Just look at multiplatforms. A "look at teh exclusives" argument doesn't hold a lot of water when the PS3 cant garner a significant lead in multiplat performance, no matter the reason why.

 

[Bamstrokher]

I explain it that PS2 was much more entrenched, got off to a fast start worldwide, and Xbox/GC were the newcomers plagued by poor software support. Sony was the 900 lb gorilla. There isn't one of those this time. The gen was shorter too, only 4 years, giving the more powerful box (Xbox) less time to catch up.

I think the difference between Ps3 and 360 is +/- 10% (and as a testament to how close they are, I'm not entirely sure which is in the lead). Just look at multiplatforms. A "look at teh exclusives" argument doesn't hold a lot of water when the PS3 cant garner a significant lead in multiplat performance, no matter the reason why.

How much time did it need? The difference was 120 million to 20 million. There is no way it would have caught up even if it had 5 years all by itself. And the gen itself was longer than 4 years, If indeed, PS2 led and defined that generation. It was more like an eight year console cycle.

 

[specialguy]

Just out of interest (as this comes up alot) But how would we actually measure relative graphical power in a percentage? Like if the Wii U was sat in front of us and we knew its specifications, and we had the same infor for PS4: What are we actually measuring to say "30% less powerful" or "75% more powerful" etc etc?

Back in the day it used to be poly counts but now i'm not so sure what is relevant.

Ehh, it's more a "feel" thing in my case, buttressed with a few key specs. RAM, GPU teraflops being two of the most key.


While personally I believe the "30% less=death sentence" thing, perhaps I should say 40% just to make the concept more clear and understandable. A 40% performance deficit is more clear as a very significant one, while still being marginal.

I am confused by that statement. What constitutes a death sentence to Nintendo in your eyes? Is it 95 million consoles sold and counting? Is it twenty games that have sold more than five million copies? What about one hundred fifty games that have sold more than a million copies? If Wii U moved those numbers, would that be a "death sentence"?

This is well tilled ground, but the Wii transcended and escaped the bounds of core gaming where power holds sway.

If the Wii U does that as well, it can do well, but perhaps not in the core space, just as Wii succeeded, but not in the core space.

I just dont have any confidence a tablet will grab the casual public like motion controls. Granted, at the time I predicted total doom for Wii, so what do I know. Still, I feel I'm right this time.

I even feel like the heavy concern internet-wide over the Wii U's power is probably already showing that it's firmly back in the core space, where it matters. I dont even remember this much consternation over the Wii's lack of power.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I was also wondering about 2-way SMT. Recently on B3D they were debating whether 2-SMT was still in given rumours and the recent report of the CPU having less threads than 360. If this was the case and that feature was removed, wouldn't that cause a big headache for devs who were far into development using the hardware Nintendo had given them last year?

Is it somtehing that can be removed without the need to overhaul games etc? If not then that would certainly make me lean towards those rumors being false, as surely Nintendo wouldn't make a fundamental change like that so late on.

Something interesting I noticed while looking up the PPC 476fp was that it can do four instructions per cycle (or 5 depending on the source - I think 4 is likely accurate). This is in comparison to Xenon's 2 instructions per thread. Perhaps there was some confusion there since it evens out? Although thread level parallelism is a whole different ballgame than instruction level parallelism in coding. For instance, Xenon could have 2 threads on a core both accessing the VMX128 unit, which would be impossible on a 476fp, even if they put VMX on there. Then again, Xenon's L2 cache was both shared and limited, which could have caused problems in scenarios such as that. I have to search for some more developer comments on the issue, but I found that kinda interesting.

Do we even know if the tech they are using to stream the video to the control pad allows people to be in another room? (e.g. people talk moving from their living room to their bedroom... while playing on the controller)

AFAIK it's some custom 802.11 signal for the A/V stream and for the game control I assume they use Bluetooth again. The latter may actually be more the limiting factor, as I'm pretty sure Bluetooth is designed to work within a 30 ft range.

 

[GameplayWhore]

My take on the situation is that if Wii U shows that the audience is there for certain hard core games (Zombi U being one of them), then third parties may consider porting UE4 to Wii U in order to make porting of PS4/Xbox3 games to the Wii U easier. It's a matter of whether or not there is money to be made.

The Wii showed that there was an audience for the same genre (do you not remember Red Steel and CoD3 selling well despite obvious game gimpage in either case?), and it didn't change the opinions of devs. You'd need multiple, mindshatteringly strong hits to really cause a short term opinion shift. In the meantime, Wii U is in a stronger position than Wii, having more promising looking original titles and far less in the way of games that have been cored of content during the port to the system. This is just one of those things where it'll take nearly as long to rebuild developer trust as it took to bring it down.

Its basically like four colors being used.

I applaud our new CGA overlords.

Spoiler

Wait, is it blue, white, yellow and greenpinkpurplebrown? It's tricky figuring out that fourth colour.

 

[specialguy]

How much time did it need? The difference was 120 million to 20 million. There is no way it would have caught up even if it had 5 years all by itself. And the gen itself was longer than 4 years, If indeed, PS2 led and defined that generation. It was more like an eight year console cycle.

Worldwide. But it did pretty well in the US and established a foothold for MS where none was thought possible. It also had a whole lot of mindshare.

I distinctly remember, I think it was 2004 e3, the one with Fable, Halo 2, etc, coming out of it there were a LOT of posts on GAF to the point of "damn, Xbox looking really good, where's the PS2 hype, is PS2 in trouble?" Type of stuff.

 

[Plinko]

This is well tilled ground, but the Wii transcended and escaped the bounds of core gaming where power holds sway.

If the Wii U does that as well, it can do well, but perhaps not in the core space, just as Wii succeeded, but not in the core space.

I just dont have any confidence a tablet will grab the casual public like motion controls. Granted, at the time I predicted total doom for Wii, so what do I know. Still, I feel I'm right this time.

I even feel like the heavy concern internet-wide over the Wii U's power is probably already showing that it's firmly back in the core space, where it matters. I dont even remember this much consternation over the Wii's lack of power.

If you take a look at the chart for total retail sales for video games over the past 5-6 years that somebody posted in the NPD thread, it's clear that the entire industry is in a freefall and it's not just because there aren't any new systems. It's been happening for at least 3 years now--well before people were already clamoring for upgraded hardware.

I would argue that the casual gaming resurgence is the reason for this. As a result, I believe the tablet controller (along with what will most likely be the lowest price) actually gives Nintendo the best chance to succeed next generation because if they market apps for this thing along with the other main aspects (play without tv, asymmetric gameplay, etc) I think it's going to be a relatively large success.

Hardware power means almost nothing when it comes to sales nowadays. The 3DS/Vita should be a clear example of this.

 

[z0m3le]

I explain it that PS2 was much more entrenched, got off to a fast start worldwide, and Xbox/GC were the newcomers plagued by poor software support. Sony was the 900 lb gorilla. There isn't one of those this time. The gen was shorter too, only 4 years, giving the more powerful box (Xbox) less time to catch up.

I think the difference between Ps3 and 360 is +/- 10% (and as a testament to how close they are, I'm not entirely sure which is in the lead). Just look at multiplatforms. A "look at teh exclusives" argument doesn't hold a lot of water when the PS3 cant garner a significant lead in multiplat performance, no matter the reason why.

Maybe you don't remember 06/07 but developers were desperately trying to port their games efficiently to PS3, the reason for this was because the lead platform they normally would of jumped on. "900lb" gorilla was the Wii, but was incapable of the hd development that developers invested so much in. The gpu you mentioned, if Nintendo had went that route, Wii would of became the PS2 of this generation without a doubt.

Multiplatform games are designed on 360 and brought over to ps3 in nearly every case, so multiplatforms are the wrong games to look at, or there would easily be examples of ps2 being stronger than the Xbox. From a technical standpoint both consoles have pros and cons, but ps3 from a purely calculations perspective wins out thanks to cell, and those calculations can turn into visual graphics, uc3 would be a good example. Last of us is probably the best.

 

[Bamstrokher]

Ehh, it's more a "feel" thing in my case, buttressed with a few key specs. RAM, GPU teraflops being two of the most key.


While personally I believe the "30% less=death sentence" thing, perhaps I should say 40% just to make the concept more clear and understandable. A 40% performance deficit is more clear as a very significant one, while still being marginal.



This is well tilled ground, but the Wii transcended and escaped the bounds of core gaming where power holds sway.

If the Wii U does that as well, it can do well, but perhaps not in the core space, just as Wii succeeded, but not in the core space.

I just dont have any confidence a tablet will grab the casual public like motion controls. Granted, at the time I predicted total doom for Wii, so what do I know. Still, I feel I'm right this time.

I even feel like the heavy concern internet-wide over the Wii U's power is probably already showing that it's firmly back in the core space, where it matters. I dont even remember this much consternation over the Wii's lack of power.

I think I understand your point better now. I think this bolded part is simply down to the fact that people were used to the PS2, and didn't care as much about power back then. They also had no foresight that the Wii would be so weak. I simply was not aware when I bought it that the Wii was weak.

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

No hard feelings whatsoever.

Good man um cartoon bull [?] thing....

Ahem, anyone know if there is going to be an English version of the new Nintendo Direct [the one with Iwata & Kawashima talking heads]?

EDIT:

If you take a look at the chart for total retail sales for video games over the past 5-6 years that somebody posted in the NPD thread, it's clear that the entire industry is in a freefall and it's not just because there aren't any new systems. It's been happening for at least 3 years now--well before people were already clamoring for upgraded hardware.

I would argue that the casual gaming resurgence is the reason for this. As a result, I believe the tablet controller (along with what will most likely be the lowest price) actually gives Nintendo the best chance to succeed next generation because if they market apps for this thing along with the other main aspects (play without tv, asymmetric gameplay, etc) I think it's going to be a relatively large success.

Hardware power means almost nothing when it comes to sales nowadays. The 3DS/Vita should be a clear example of this.

Has it ever?

 

[Earendil]

Good man um cartoon bull [?] thing....

Ahem, anyone know if there is going to be an English version of the new Nintendo Direct [the one with Iwata & Kawashima talking heads]?

Now I'm the one offended that you don't know who Appa is...

 

[JAYinHD]

If you take a look at the chart for total retail sales for video games over the past 5-6 years that somebody posted in the NPD thread, it's clear that the entire industry is in a freefall and it's not just because there aren't any new systems. It's been happening for at least 3 years now--well before people were already clamoring for upgraded hardware.

I would argue that the casual gaming resurgence is the reason for this. As a result, I believe the tablet controller (along with what will most likely be the lowest price) actually gives Nintendo the best chance to succeed next generation because if they market apps for this thing along with the other main aspects (play without tv, asymmetric gameplay, etc) I think it's going to be a relatively large success.

Hardware power means almost nothing when it comes to sales nowadays. The 3DS/Vita should be a clear example of this.

I often wonder when will people understand this.

 

[specialguy]

If you take a look at the chart for total retail sales for video games over the past 5-6 years that somebody posted in the NPD thread, it's clear that the entire industry is in a freefall and it's not just because there aren't any new systems. It's been happening for at least 3 years now--well before people were already clamoring for upgraded hardware.


Hardware power means almost nothing when it comes to sales nowadays. The 3DS/Vita should be a clear example of this.

As I posted about that chart in that thread, that chart actually makes the situation seen better to me than I thought. I shows the retail market is still doing more money in 2012 than in 2005 or 2006 (which had PS2 as well as early current gen). It looks more like a healthy generational transition than a disaster, judging by that chart imo. It also ignores the digital games market on the consoles, which is surely MUCH bigger in 2012 than 05-6, and if added in to the sales probably makes the picture look even much less dire for 2012.

For 3DS/Vita it's been clear to me since DS/PSP power is not the largest factor in core handhelds. So, I'm consistent there, I never would have expected Vita to win that matchup. IMO, if graphics are your priority, a handheld is not where you go for them anyway.

I would argue that the casual gaming resurgence is the reason for this. As a result, I believe the tablet controller (along with what will most likely be the lowest price) actually gives Nintendo the best chance to succeed next generation because if they market apps for this thing along with the other main aspects (play without tv, asymmetric gameplay, etc) I think it's going to be a relatively large success.

Fair enough, I disagree that those casual gamers will flock to Wii U instead of their smartphone, but if they do Nintendo will have a success.

I also think Wii U pricing is problematic, because of the expensive controller. It may indeed be somewhat cheaper than the other next gen, but the gap will not be large, and it may actually be harder to cost reduce over time.

I wouldn't be shocked at some, $349 Wii U announcement, triggering waves of drama and weeping on neogaf. It could also go the other way to something like 249. But lets say it's 299, that's not terribly compelling for a "low price" entrant imo.

 

[specialguy]

I often wonder when will people understand this.

Probably when people stop getting all defensive when you imply Wii U might not be very powerful in this very thread

It's like this: "power doesnt matter"

Next breath

"How dare you say Wii U wont be very powerful!".

 

[DrWong]

Probably when people stop getting all defensive when you imply Wii U might not be very powerful in this very thread

It's like this: "power doesnt matter"

Next breath

"How dare you say Wii U wont be very powerful!".

Offense/Defense. Always worked like that ^^

 

[Bamstrokher]

As I posted about that chart in that thread, that chart actually makes the situation seen better to me than I thought. I shows the retail market is still doing more money in 2012 than in 2005 or 2006 (which had PS2 as well as early current gen). It looks more like a healthy generational transition than a disaster, judging by that chart imo. It also ignores the digital games market on the consoles, which is surely MUCH bigger in 2012 than 05-6, and if added in to the sales probably makes the picture look even much less dire for 2012.

For 3DS/Vita it's been clear to me since DS/PSP power is not the largest factor in core handhelds. So, I'm consistent there, I never would have expected Vita to win that matchup. IMO, if graphics are your priority, a handheld is not where you go for them anyway.



Fair enough, I disagree that those casual gamers will flock to Wii U instead of their smartphone, but if they do Nintendo will have a success.

I also think Wii U pricing is problematic, because of the expensive controller. It may indeed be somewhat cheaper than the other next gen, but the gap will not be large, and it may actually be harder to cost reduce over time.

I wouldn't be shocked at some, $349 Wii U announcement, triggering waves of drama and weeping on neogaf. It could also go the other way to something like 249. But lets say it's 299, that's not terribly compelling for a "low price" entrant imo.

You know we live in a wierd era. I know a lot of people who would balk at paying $350 for a durable, fun, Nintendo device, but have spent countless thousands on multiple Ipads, Iphones, and Ipods, and thousands more on service contracts for said devices. I pretty much agree with you on your price asessment.

 

[ASIS]

[/B]

You know we live in a wierd era. I know a lot of people who would balk at paying $350 for a durable, fun, Nintendo device, but have spent countless thousands on multiple Ipads, Iphones, and Ipods, and thousands more on service contracts for said devices. I pretty much agree with you on your price asessment.

Because iPhones, iPads, etc. offer more than just games.

 

[Bamstrokher]

Because iPhones, iPads, etc. offer more than just games.

You know, I could almost buy this argument except for two things

1. The money that people spend on these things implies almost an exponentially raised level of value that I just don't see as having validity.

2. These devices are terrible for playing games on. So, to me, you can just subtract that off the top as part of the value proposition.

 

[Donnie]

I am not convinced. And besides that, I'd argue it doesnt matter all that much.

Imagine Wii was 50, 75% more powerful than it was in reality. Would it have garnered more 3rd party support? I'd argue, not really.

I used to argue Nintendo should have equipped Wii with a X1600XT GPU. A nice, very featured, fast, cheap, GPU of the time, that would have ran circles around Hollywood, but still not challenged RSX/Xenos. But I have to admit in my heart of hearts, I realized it probably would have made no difference except cost Nintendo more money.

You need to be in the ballpark. Even a modest 30% less powerful is probably a death sentence imo.

No you would have been right the first time in that a X1600XT in Wii would have made third party support far easier. Not simply due to more processing power but due to the much more modern feature set. The only thing stopping third parties then would be the usual "Kiddy market" "Nintendo overshadows our games" ect arguments.

You're well wide of the mark if you think a 30% difference in processing power is anywhere near enough to rule out game porting.

 

[GameplayWhore]

If you take a look at the chart for total retail sales for video games over the past 5-6 years that somebody posted in the NPD thread, it's clear that the entire industry is in a freefall and it's not just because there aren't any new systems. It's been happening for at least 3 years now--well before people were already clamoring for upgraded hardware.

I would argue that the casual gaming resurgence is the reason for this. As a result, I believe the tablet controller (along with what will most likely be the lowest price) actually gives Nintendo the best chance to succeed next generation because if they market apps for this thing along with the other main aspects (play without tv, asymmetric gameplay, etc) I think it's going to be a relatively large success.

Hardware power means almost nothing when it comes to sales nowadays. The 3DS/Vita should be a clear example of this.

I'd at least partly peg it to the madness that is overpricing consoles. Here's the big difference:

In the old days, a new console cost something like $200 or in crazytown cases $300, and the price pretty quickly got down to mainstream price levels. Pricing above this guaranteed that you would end up with a niche product and extremely low sales. In the current generation, console makers (save for you-know-who) decided that the Neo Geo model, heretofore considered a terrible general strategy, was now a sensible and completely sane way to go about selling your product. Even Hiroshicorp sold their product for higher than they had done in the previous three generations, but I'm sort of ignoring them for the point I'm making.

The big expensive systems got the enthusiasts and early jumpers on board and even quite a bit more due to incredibly aggressive and expensive advertising moves. But half a decade later, one of the systems is not yet in that mainstream price level, and the other took something like five years to get there, by which time the systems were seen as old and not particularly interesting.

And it's suddenly considered normal for individual games to sell for 20% more than before. And many games are now being packaged in a way such that the initial purchase price is only part of the end user cost of the game. And nobody considered that this might affect sales.

So, fuck yeah sales are down. The industry basically doubled the cost of their products and didn't think people would stop buying. Fucking duh.

I would only feel safe saying that 1 title in the entire history of console gaming has used all of a console's power

Nonsense. There were lots of titles in the 1970s which did this. They were all Pong, though.

 

[Plinko]

As I posted about that chart in that thread, that chart actually makes the situation seen better to me than I thought. I shows the retail market is still doing more money in 2012 than in 2005 or 2006 (which had PS2 as well as early current gen). It looks more like a healthy generational transition than a disaster, judging by that chart imo. It also ignores the digital games market on the consoles, which is surely MUCH bigger in 2012 than 05-6, and if added in to the sales probably makes the picture look even much less dire for 2012.

I'll disagree with you in the fact that since 2005/2006 we have had many more households established in the United States; therefore, sales numbers should be expected to be higher. More consumers should mean more sales, and it's not. It definitely is NOT a healthy industry right now.

I also think Wii U pricing is problematic, because of the expensive controller. It may indeed be somewhat cheaper than the other next gen, but the gap will not be large, and it may actually be harder to cost reduce over time.

I wouldn't be shocked at some, $349 Wii U announcement, triggering waves of drama and weeping on neogaf. It could also go the other way to something like 249. But lets say it's 299, that's not terribly compelling for a "low price" entrant imo.

I agree with most of this (especially the $349 part) but I think $299 will get people buying the system.

 

[Plinko]

I'd at least partly peg it to the madness that is overpricing consoles. Here's the big difference:

In the old days, a new console cost something like $200 or in crazytown cases $300, and the price pretty quickly got down to mainstream price levels. Pricing above this guaranteed that you would end up with a niche product and extremely low sales. In the current generation, console makers (save for you-know-who) decided that the Neo Geo model, heretofore considered a terrible general strategy, was now a sensible and completely sane way to go about selling your product. Even Hiroshicorp sold their product for higher than they had done in the previous three generations, but I'm sort of ignoring them for the point I'm making.

The big expensive systems got the enthusiasts and early jumpers on board and even quite a bit more due to incredibly aggressive and expensive advertising moves. But half a decade later, one of the systems is not yet in that mainstream price level, and the other took something like five years to get there, by which time the systems were seen as old and not particularly interesting.

And it's suddenly considered normal for individual games to sell for 20% more than before. And many games are now being packaged in a way such that the initial purchase price is only part of the end user cost of the game. And nobody considered that this might affect sales.

So, fuck yeah sales are down. The industry basically doubled the cost of their products and didn't think people would stop buying. Fucking duh.

Spot on. I agree completely and admit I wasn't even thinking of this at the time.

 

[Bamstrokher]

I'll disagree with you in the fact that since 2005/2006 we have had many more households established in the United States; therefore, sales numbers should be expected to be higher. More consumers should mean more sales, and it's not. It definitely is NOT a healthy industry right now.



I agree with most of this (especially the $349 part) but I think $299 will get people buying the system.

I agree that they should be higher, but we have been in a recession. That the Wii managed to sustain the numbers it did, for as long as it did, especially among lower income households, is sort of a miracle.

 

[ASIS]

You know, I could almost buy this argument except for two things

1. The money that people spend on these things implies almost an exponentially raised level of value that I just don't see as having validity.

2. These devices are terrible for playing games on. So, to me, you can just subtract that off the top as part of the value proposition.

You probably don't see the value in them, that's more than fair, but fact of the matter is, these devices do play games that a healthy portion of the audience enjoy, they do offer communication leaps and bounds above anything Nintendo has done or will ever do, they do offer multimedia functions that are not only convenient, but are also of a standard. All of that presented in one of the most, if not the most, luxurious fashions of today

Add all that to two other factors:

1. the iPhone specifically doesn't need you to pay full price the day you acquire it. People maybe able to shell out 99$ per month for four years in a row but they can't just spend it $500 in one day, even if the former plan will end up costing far more.

2. They are all portable.

It seems quite obvious that Nintendo, then, is in a very different market. They can offer all the multimedia features in the world but they will always be about the games. And people won't justify paying as much for a gaming dedicated console as they are for an "all-inclusive" device.


For the record, both MS and Sony seem to go down the road of multimedia or "entertainment consoles" as well. Nintendo needs to price their console accordingly because they are in for tough competition next generation.

 

[Plinko]

I agree that they should be higher, but we have been in a recession. That the Wii managed to sustain the numbers it did, for as long as it did, especially among lower income households, is sort of a miracle.

I also think that Wii sales were, in a way, bad for the industry as now people are basing almost everything on those and DS numbers, which I find ludicrous. I don't think we'll see anything like Wii sales again in the industry for decades.

 

[EatChildren]

I also think that Wii sales were, in a way, bad for the industry as now people are basing almost everything on those and DS numbers, which I find ludicrous. I don't think we'll see anything like Wii sales again in the industry for decades.

Which is problematic if publishers are going to treat the industry like Hollywood, pouring millions into games that literally cannot exist in a market that is still arguably niche relative to cinema and music.

 

[Earendil]

Which is problematic if publishers are going to treat the industry like Hollywood, pouring millions into games that literally cannot exist in a market that is still arguably niche relative to cinema and music.

This has been a worrying trend for a while now.

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

Now I'm the one offended that you don't know who Appa is...

Sorry .

In my defence however, I doubt that many forty something childless males know who he is either.

I may be a bit nerdy but I'm not that nerdy!

 

[Meelow]

I know about the O-Live system, etc.

Did anything new/shocking come up? lol, after Neogaf was down for like 12 hours yesterday.

 

[Sadist]

http://www.gamesradar.com/interview-katsuhiro-harada-talks-tekken/

Gamesradar interview with Harada about Tekken TT 2

GR: Will the Wii-U version have any distinctly different modes to the 360 and PS3 versions?

KH: Well, because of the controller, obviously there are going to be a few features that are more convenient because you can control them directly from the interface. But it’s not like the overall game mechanics are going to change that drastically. There are going to be some modes that will be interesting, because they are very Nintendo like. Some of this was shown at E3, where a mushroom drops down and Heihachi eats it and gets bigger. You know Nintendo fans hearing and seeing that just exploded with excitement. The things that we can do because it is Nintendo are things people will be very excited about, but we can’t go into it any further. That being said though, a lot of the online modes and customisation on the 360 and PS3 will be geared towards the core audience a little bit more.

 

[Korgill]

GR: Will the Wii-U version have any distinctly different modes to the 360 and PS3 versions?

KH: Well, because of the controller, obviously there are going to be a few features that are more convenient because you can control them directly from the interface. But it’s not like the overall game mechanics are going to change that drastically. There are going to be some modes that will be interesting, because they are very Nintendo like. Some of this was shown at E3, where a mushroom drops down and Heihachi eats it and gets bigger. You know Nintendo fans hearing and seeing that just exploded with excitement. The things that we can do because it is Nintendo are things people will be very excited about, but we can’t go into it any further. That being said though, a lot of the online modes and customisation on the 360 and PS3 will be geared towards the core audience a little bit more.

What does this mean? Leaderboards? How many "degrees" of hardcore is there when the fighting mechanics are the same?

Maybe drawing on peoples faces is considered casual?

 

[Fourth Storm]

http://www.gamesradar.com/interview-katsuhiro-harada-talks-tekken/

Gamesradar interview with Harada about Tekken TT 2

I don't think I like the sound of that...

 

[Meelow]

What does this mean? Leaderboards? How many "degrees" of hardcore is there when the fighting mechanics are the same?

Maybe drawing on peoples faces is considered casual?

I think he called Nintendo stuff kiddy while Sony and Microsoft stuff are "core"

I'm not shocked, probably still has this biased towards Sony.

 

[axisofweevils]

Mock if old.

Nintendo shakes up PR ahead of Wii U release

The Japanese gaming giant posted its first annual loss in 50 years as a public company last year and is banking on the global success of its new console Wii U to turn around its fortunes in 2012.

Ahead of this crucial time for the firm, Nintendo has parted ways with its retained UK agency Good Relations.

Nintendo has put its entire UK consumer and corporate PR business out to pitch. This is currently held by the Chime-owned agency, which declined to repitch.

The process is believed to be in its early stages, with chemistry meetings set to be held with a number of agencies over the coming weeks. It is thought that an agency shortlist will be drawn up by the end of the month, with pitches planned for the end of August.

A Nintendo spokeswoman confirmed the process, adding: ‘The year 2012 is a big one for Nintendo and with this in mind we are currently reviewing our PR agency. The first round of this process has already been completed.’

http://www.prweek.com/uk/news/1141541/nintendo-shakes-pr-ahead-wii-u-release/

 

[Bamstrokher]

You probably don't see the value in them, that's more than fair, but fact of the matter is, these devices do play games that a healthy portion of the audience enjoy, they do offer communication leaps and bounds above anything Nintendo has done or will ever do, they do offer multimedia functions that are not only convenient, but are also of a standard. All of that presented in one of the most, if not the most, luxurious fashions of today

Add all that to two other factors:

1. the iPhone specifically doesn't need you to pay full price the day you acquire it. People maybe able to shell out 99$ per month for four years in a row but they can't just spend it $500 in one day, even if the former plan will end up costing far more.

Interesting...

2. They are all portable.

It seems quite obvious that Nintendo, then, is in a very different market. They can offer all the multimedia features in the world but they will always be about the games. And people won't justify paying as much for a gaming dedicated console as they are for an "all-inclusive" device.


For the record, both MS and Sony seem to go down the road of multimedia or "entertainment consoles" as well. Nintendo needs to price their console accordingly because they are in for tough competition next generation.

I also think that Wii sales were, in a way, bad for the industry as now people are basing almost everything on those and DS numbers, which I find ludicrous. I don't think we'll see anything like Wii sales again in the industry for decades.

yeah, that's an anomaly, and for publishers to chase that kind of success by just pouring more money into games is not gonna work.

Medium to low cost, and disruptive is the answer, with the ocassional attempt at AAA

 

[Earendil]

Sorry .

In my defence however, I doubt that many forty something childless males know who he is either.

I may be a bit nerdy but I'm not that nerdy!

No worries, though you would be surprised how many adults (of all ages) watch Avatar: The Last Airbender.

I think he called Nintendo stuff kiddy while Sony and Microsoft stuff are "core"

I'm not shocked, probably still has this biased towards Sony.

Edit: Isn't the EA thing today?.

Definitely a strange statement. I don't really understand how the same game can be viewed so differently by a developer/publisher on different platforms.

 

[schuelma]

http://www.gamesradar.com/interview-katsuhiro-harada-talks-tekken/

Gamesradar interview with Harada about Tekken TT 2

Interesting. I do think that with Japanese 3rd parties we're going to see a lot of cross Nintendo promotion stuff.

And his last comment could mean a lot or it could mean nothing. Difficult to tell in these Japanese to English translated interviews.

 

[prag16]

You're well wide of the mark if you think a 30% difference in processing power is anywhere near enough to rule out game porting.

Agreed 100%.


Here's something to think about: 1080p60 takes 4.5x the raw pixel pushing power as the SAME EXACT GAME at 720p30, and that's before we even consider any kind of post processing, and how much more horsepower it may require at a higher res/framerate.

Anybody still think a mere 30% deficit kills porting viability? Hint: It doesn't.

If PS4/720 has ~5x the "power" of a Wii U, the Wii U can still get ports ("good" ports; not the watered down crap the Wii got). It's just a matter of whether devs will want to do it. It very likely won't take as much monumental effort as many here seem to think.

 

[Bamstrokher]

Interesting. I do think that with Japanese 3rd parties we're going to see a lot of cross Nintendo promotion stuff.

And his last comment could mean a lot or it could mean nothing. Difficult to tell in these Japanese to English translated interviews.

Couldn't it just mean that he has a better idea of the online details for PS3 and 360, since they are mature and robust feature wise; it might be much easier to implement certain kinds of content in those, whereas Wii U online and leaderboards are probably more of a guessing game right now, or in a state of flux?

 

[Sadist]

Which is problematic if publishers are going to treat the industry like Hollywood, pouring millions into games that literally cannot exist in a market that is still arguably niche relative to cinema and music.

Still publishers think it's the way to go. I do wonder what their viewpoints are on those type of projects.

 

[Nostremitus]

Sorry .

In my defence however, I doubt that many forty something childless males know who he is either.

I may be a bit nerdy but I'm not that nerdy!

The wife and I just watched the series, lol...

Also, when will we know what's going on with the EA Sports news?

 

[JAYinHD]

Probably when people stop getting all defensive when you imply Wii U might not be very powerful in this very thread

It's like this: "power doesnt matter"

Next breath

"How dare you say Wii U wont be very powerful!".

Personally, I don't think the Wii U will be much more powerful than the HD twins. I understand the frustration with Ninty fans wanting more power under the hood (though how much power it have is publicly unknown). My point is that at the end of the day the success or failure of the Wii U will depend directly on software and not hardware grunt just like every other generation.

 

[prag16]

I'd at least partly peg it to the madness that is overpricing consoles. Here's the big difference:

In the old days, a new console cost something like $200 or in crazytown cases $300, and the price pretty quickly got down to mainstream price levels. Pricing above this guaranteed that you would end up with a niche product and extremely low sales. In the current generation, console makers (save for you-know-who) decided that the Neo Geo model, heretofore considered a terrible general strategy, was now a sensible and completely sane way to go about selling your product. Even Hiroshicorp sold their product for higher than they had done in the previous three generations, but I'm sort of ignoring them for the point I'm making.

The big expensive systems got the enthusiasts and early jumpers on board and even quite a bit more due to incredibly aggressive and expensive advertising moves. But half a decade later, one of the systems is not yet in that mainstream price level, and the other took something like five years to get there, by which time the systems were seen as old and not particularly interesting.

And it's suddenly considered normal for individual games to sell for 20% more than before. And many games are now being packaged in a way such that the initial purchase price is only part of the end user cost of the game. And nobody considered that this might affect sales.

I think you SORT of have a point... but it evaporates completely once you do something very very simple: Adjust for inflation. A $50 game in 2000 is actually almost $67 in inflation adjusted 2012 dollars. So from that perspective we're actually getting a $7 "break" based on a $50 standard from a decade ago. Same obviously goes for system prices. A $200 SNES in 1991 is almost $350 in 2012 dollars. And that's using the government's "official" (and very questionably conservative) inflation measurement methods.

BUT the fact that we're in a recession for the past few years definitely adds back some value to your point that the inflation factor took away.

 

[Meelow]

Isn't the EA conference today?.

 

[schuelma]

Isn't the EA conference today?.

Yes. Probably not until later though.

 

[MDX]

http://www.gamezone.com/products/wi...ustice-gods-among-us-and-other-fighting-games

Interesting. At least they confirm they arn't just planning on cashing it in.

Quote from Ed Boon from polygon:

"Thankfully the game isn't out until next year," he added, "but it's certainly not something that we've cracked yet."

Pro-tip