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Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM, [Up: RAM 43% slower than 360/PS3 RAM]

S

StrangeADT

Banned
jman2050 said:
I guess this is only partially related to this post and more of a general response, but a common misconception people seem to have is that additional power can "make up" for unoptimized and/or poorly programmed code all other things being equal. This isn't even remotely true in all or even most cases.

The thing is, regardless of how powerful any system is the overall technical quality of a game is still a matter of time and talent foremost.
Click to expand...
If the architectural differences alone are enough to slow it down this badly without significant restructuring(referring to ports here), Nintendo has once again locked themselves into 3rd party starvation. That's all I really have to say about the topic.
 
M

milsorgen

Banned
Horse Armour said:

TL:DR: Wii U has 2GB of Samsung DDR3 memory running at a max speed of 17GB/s.
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I think my X1800 XT (very similiar to what the 360 is using, though most sources nowadays list it as a x1900 equiv) had 24-28GB/s. However, considering the underlying architecture improvements likely to be found in both the GPU and CPU as compared to anything else on the market today and I don't think those numbers are all that meaningful.
 
M

milsorgen

Banned
StrangeADT said:
The algorithms are well known for most graphics operations that the WiiU would be capable of because developers have had 6 years to do them.
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You cannot compare the capabilities of the Wii U with over half a decade old tech. I'm not saying your implication is wrong or even slightly off the mark, I'm just saying the way you are coming to your conclusion is a poor one.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
StrangeADT said:
If the architectural differences alone are enough to slow it down this badly without significant restructuring(referring to ports here), Nintendo has once again locked themselves into 3rd party starvation.
Click to expand...

That's a delusion that implies they had an interest after Wii I doubt nintendo gives a fuck what 3rd parties want in terms of specs. Neither side cares about each others needs and this is this will always be the result.

I'm more surprised that trolls of the system who have been knocking it expected more despite rumors otherwise as someone as already shown.
 
T

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
cyberheater said:
I would not buy this console expecting multiplatform games to be great. Sorry to say.
And I think once the new HD twins arrive. Third party support will wain.
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Sadly yeah I don't think Wii U will able to handle PS4/720 ports when it already having problems with PS3/360 ports and this is just weird, I thought Nintendo wanted to avoid what happened to Wii with third party support.
 
D

Diablos54

Member
Ahasverus said:
Yeah, since DUAL SHOCK 1. Why change the rules after all this time, nintendo?
Bad placement is bad.
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Yea, 3 gens, that's a long time, I wouldn't call the DS the perfect controller or anything so why can't someone else try something different? Like MS did when they did their controller? I remember lots of bitching back then but people seem to love it now. I'm not saying the placement is perfect, but maybe you need to give it a little more time before you start claiming about how it's killing your boner.
 
K

kinggroin

Banned
Nintendo should have made off-tv play mandatory, and sell the screen-pad separately.

They could have introduced a much more powerful solution and been better equipped for the long haul (not to mention being first). I've yet to see a single game (Nintendoland included) that justifies the hit on specs in order to package the thing in the box.
 
K

Krilekk

Banned
pizzaroll said:
I think you are vastly underestimating the ability of Nintendo's programmers.
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No, it's been pretty evident in the past that once you don't learn new tricks on a daily basis it's very hard to keep up with the rest. The Japanese development scene still suffers from PS2 success, they just can't do HD games without making all the mistakes western devs did seven years ago. There are like two or three studios who are on par with western devs, the rest is literally years behind.
 
S

Smurfman256

Member
On the subject of the 32MB or eDRAM, could it be possible that AMD/Nintendo are using 4 64Mb cells of Renesas UX7LSeD? Here are the specs:

Manufacturing process: 55nm
Configuration (word x bit): 256 Kw x 256 b
Random Access Freq.: 108 MHz
DVCC (VDD), VCP: 1.2 V ± 0.1 V / 3.3 V ± 0.3 V
Tj: 0°C - 105°C /-40°C - 125°C

How much would this increase bandwidth by and would it's manufacturing process say alot about the GPU?
 
D

Diablos54

Member
Krilekk said:
There are like two or three studios who are on par with western devs, the rest is literally years behind.
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Considering what they got out of the Wii, I'd say Nintendo are exactly this? And I'd also say your underrating JPN developers but that's another thread all together. :p
 
R

Reiko

Banned
Krilekk said:
No, it's been pretty evident in the past that once you don't learn new tricks on a daily basis it's very hard to keep up with the rest. The Japanese development scene still suffers from PS2 success, they just can't do HD games without making all the mistakes western devs did seven years ago. There are like two or three studios who are on par with western devs, the rest is literally years behind.
Click to expand...

Let's see (From the top of my head):

Team Ninja
KojiPro
Platinum Games
SquareEnix
Sonic Team
Sega AM2
Capcom
 
Eteric Rice

Eteric Rice

Member
Totobeni said:
Sadly yeah I don't think Wii U will able to handle PS4/720 ports when it already having problems with PS3/360 ports and this is just weird, I thought Nintendo wanted to avoid what happened to Wii with third party support.
Click to expand...

It might still yet, considering that the architecture won't be as widely different as last generation.

I'm just going to stay in wait and see mode. Hopefully Nintendo thought this out a little bit.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
Totobeni said:
Sadly yeah I don't think Wii U will able to handle PS4/720 ports when it already having problems with PS3/360 ports and this is just weird, I thought Nintendo wanted to avoid what happened to Wii with third party support.
Click to expand...

For different reasons.

Also if you think nintendo wanted to avoid this you must be smoking something. They have done nothing but pr talk on this issue and that won't fix real things like the hardware not being in tune with pc centric multiplatform developers or the high end console developers sony and ms have firmly in their pockets.
 
J

jett

D-Member
TunaLover said:
On brute force alone, no. It could get "similar" visuals if developers use all the tricks available, and makes for ground up code for it.
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"Similar" visuals like how Madden 12 on the PS2 looks similar to the PS360 incarnation, I suppose.
 
A

AzaK

Member
Busty said:
Was this scenario ever in doubt?

I mean seriously. Even it's name clearly states it's a 'sequel' to the Wii.

Nintendo has a 'format philosophy' that worked gangbusters for them this generation and they are sticking to it.
Click to expand...

They have put a tonne of effort in trying to get third parties on board. They definitely know it hurt them badly last time.

We need to wait until we see all the other specs, and more importantly the games that push the hardware. We have ALWAYS known it won't be as grunty as PS4/720, and just hope it's enough to get downports. The RAM speed however is not looking good and it doesn't bode well for the rest of the system if they are prepared to go below current gen on that.

We'll see soon I guess.
 
S

Scum

Junior Member
So to a dev that gives a toss about what they're doing, I can expect 720p@30/60FPS for WiiU and 1080p@30/60FPS for PS4 and NextBox.

PC and WiiU, it is then.
 
Represent.

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
This is just fucking pathetic. Sorry. I suspect third party support will shrink faster than a Boner in Antartica.
 
S

Sid

Member
Lonely1 said:
Similar as in how (some) people say that Infinity Blade or Dark Meadow look like a 360 game. :p
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It's going to be a fun time indeed when the retail titles for ps4 and nextbox release so we can finally compare them to the wiiu versions if it gets them that is.
 
S

StrangeADT

Banned
milsorgen said:
You cannot compare the capabilities of the Wii U with over half a decade old tech. I'm not saying your implication is wrong or even slightly off the mark, I'm just saying the way you are coming to your conclusion is a poor one.
Click to expand...

You're right. There are a ton of unknowns. We don't know how well Nintendo supports 3rd party developers for the WiiU so they very well could be crawling in the dark with awful documentation for the API.

So we have three (very generalized) paths to the conclusion. Either the hardware is crap, or the API/support for the API is crap, or the developers are truly putting no effort into their ports.

It could be any of the 3. The fact that there are multiple ports with issues is a little disconcerting but certainly nothing I can get a surefire conclusion on.

Diablos54 said:
Considering what they got out of the Wii, I'd say Nintendo are exactly this? And I'd also say your underrating JPN developers but that's another thread all together. :p
Click to expand...

Not quite. While they did get quite a bit out of the Wii, there is a HUGE difference between squeezing power out of an aging system vs implementing modern techniques on modern hardware while simultaneously squeezing power from it. Look at what Naughty Dog managed to do on the PS3 from when they first started (Uncharted) to The Last of Us. Clearly there has been a ton of work and TONS of new techniques used. They were still very competent on the PS2 and it still took them years to get to The Last of Us quality.

At this point, you can't really conclude either way about how Nintendo would do. Based on the past, I'd say they will do fine. I don't really think they would be at the same level as high end devs from Epic because the guys at Epic working on UE4 are right on the cutting edge.
 
Y

Ydahs

Member
People are forgetting that next generation engines will be highly scaleable and modelled around more modern architecture, which the WiiU has. The WiiU will also benefit from the next generation engines, simply because they'll be taking advantage of notice features found on the GPU that current gen engines don't support.

Ports will certainly be possible.
 
M

Momentary

Banned
Why are a lot of people so surprised. Nintendo wasn't looking to make some kind of graphics behemoth. They know what's going on. The main casual audience they are aiming this towards doesn't care about graphics. I don't know if Nintendo is losing money on every console sold, but if they are it isn't a lot. When the new Microsoft and Sony systems hit you can bet that ever console they sell will hurt them, because what they're audience expects isn't going to come cheap.

I wouldn't be surprised if they sell their machines at 500 to 600 maybe even 700 dollars seeing as how people are paying 300-400 dollars for tablets/smartphones and they'll still lose money on every console sold. 1080p60fps with high graphics fidelity isn't going to come cheap.

Nintendo is still going to be number one in the console department this gen. Hell I'm going to buy one just to play their exclusive games and using my PC for next-gen games. Microsoft and Sony are turning their machines into home theater boxes which people can already do with their PCs and Laptops.

People who were expecting more a lot more power from this machine are not the people that Nintendo is targeting. By the time the new consoles come along they'll have a strong catalog of 1st party games and the components to make the Wii U will be cheaper to make and they'll be able to do a price drop to compete with the new consoles coming up.
 
R

Reiko

Banned
Ydahs said:
People are forgetting that next generation engines will be highly scaleable and modelled around more modern architecture, which the WiiU has. The WiiU will also benefit from the next generation engines, simply because they'll be taking advantage of notice features found on the GPU that current gen engines don't support.

Ports will certainly be possible.
Click to expand...

Did Epic even announce that UE4 will be on Wii U?
 
T

TreasureHunterG

Banned
Well, this is what Nintendo has become under Iwata management, cheap and obsolete hardware for easy profits, this is his management's trademark. As long there's people who'll buy Nintendo hardware, no matter how weak it is, just for Nintendo games, it'll keep it that way and will guarantee Iwata's profits.
 
L

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Epic hasn't announced any platform for UE4.

TreasureHunterG said:
Well, this is what Nintendo has become under Iwata management, cheap and obsolete hardware for easy profits, this is his management's trademark. As long there's people who'll buy Nintendo hardware, no matter how weak it is, just for Nintendo games, it'll keep it that way and will guarantee Iwata's profits.
Click to expand...

Wii U is being sold at loss.
 
S

Sid

Member
TreasureHunterG said:
Well, this is what Nintendo has become under Iwata management, cheap and obsolete hardware for easy profits, this is his management's trademark. As long there's people who'll buy Nintendo hardware, no matter how weak it is, just for Nintendo games, it'll keep it that way and will guarantee Iwata's profits.
Click to expand...
They are making losses for quite some time now.
 
U

USC-fan

Banned
Ydahs said:
People are forgetting that next generation engines will be highly scaleable and modelled around more modern architecture, which the WiiU has. The WiiU will also benefit from the next generation engines, simply because they'll be taking advantage of notice features found on the GPU that current gen engines don't support.

Ports will certainly be possible.
Click to expand...

Doesn't work like that.
 
L

lostinblue

Banned
milsorgen said:
I think my X1800 XT (very similiar to what the 360 is using, though most sources nowadays list it as a x1900 equiv) had 24-28GB/s. However, considering the underlying architecture improvements likely to be found in both the GPU and CPU as compared to anything else on the market today and I don't think those numbers are all that meaningful.
Click to expand...
Your XT as most PC GPU's lacks dedicated eDRAM for framebuffer purposes. Meaning it'll have to waste quite a bit of memory and bandwidth on that.

It's not really oranges to oranges (I know you weren't saying it was).
 
C

clutch.as.it.gets.

Member
Scum said:
So to a dev that gives a toss about what they're doing, I can expect 720p@30/60FPS for WiiU and 1080p@30/60FPS for PS4 and NextBox.

PC and WiiU, it is then.
Click to expand...


I highly doubt that. The more RAM alone will make sure that PS4 and Durango games will have much better ingame assets than the Wii U could ever manage.
 
P

papersleeves

Member
Ew1CL.jpg
 
W

wsippel

Banned
As I posted in some other thread a few hours ago, Wii U, and especially the memory hierarchy, is an evolution of the Gamecube:

Gamecube -> Wii -> Wii U

MEM1: 24MB 1T-SRAM -> 24MB 1T-SRAM -> 32MB eDRAM
MEM2: 16MB SDRAM -> 64MB GDDR3 -> 2GB DDR3

That was totally expected. It's a completely different layout compared to pretty much any other system out there, but Nintendo obviously likes it.
 
Y

Ydahs

Member
Reiko said:
Did Epic even announce that UE4 will be on Wii U?
Click to expand...
They did say that if a developer wanted to port a UE4 game to WiiU, it's possible.

After all, UE4 is targeted for both high end platforms and mobile devices. The WiiU having a DX10.1 compatible GPU will come in handy and that's what separates it from last generation platforms.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
Why people assume that eDRAM will save system spec ? Sure it is good to have it as Xbox360 showed with almost free MSAA but it does not save memory overall. There is only 1 GB for games That is i think most problematic part of Wii U spec.

As i said earlier 1GB won't allow to have even GTA4 on very high let alone next gen games or mods like iEnchancer or Crysis2 on max DX11.
 
A

AzaK

Member
TreasureHunterG said:
Well, this is what Nintendo has become under Iwata management, cheap and obsolete hardware for easy profits, this is his management's trademark. As long there's people who'll buy Nintendo hardware, no matter how weak it is, just for Nintendo games, it'll keep it that way and will guarantee Iwata's profits.
Click to expand...

And that's great business. That aside every single tech nerd Nintendo fan must know that Nintendo works this way. Nintendo have not hid the fact that Wii U willnot be a powerhouse. I'm just personally shocked by the RAM number as I would not have thought Nintendo would go lower than current gen on something like RAM.

And what about MS fans who kept buying melting 360s? Or those that got their second jobs for a technological marvel in the PS3 that has not proven itself better than a simple PC-in-a-box 360? In the end it's the games, no matter how much we try and fool ourselves into thinking its about hardware.
 
B

BriareosGAF

Member
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