360.Both are expected to be announced before e3 2013.Where does that information come from?
When was the last time a system was shown on E3 and released that same year?
360.Both are expected to be announced before e3 2013.Where does that information come from?
When was the last time a system was shown on E3 and released that same year?
Wii gad graphical prowess equivalent to an xbox 1.. Nobody cared...
The consumers bought the system and the devs never were going to support nintendo anyways...
With wii nintendo failed to get 3rd party support but at least they got the sales..
If they had released a machine with similar power to ps3 or xbox 360 they wouldnt have gotten anymore support then on gamecube and saleswise they would have been in a harder spot as well..
Bookmark your own post. It's going to be standard.
Xbox 360
I've never thought of Microsoft as one to get people excited about rendering resolution. Apple, sure, but not Microsoft.
Yes, I dunno why none of the GAF experts are commenting on that, I'm very curious to know if it's plausible or something Shin'en pulled out of their ass for practically no reason whatsoever as the potential issues with RAM highlighted here weren't even known at the time to even assume they just wanted to defend the platform they're developing for or whatever else. If they just wanted some general purpose praise they didn't have to go to such details saying that it avoids RAM latency bottlenecks or any such specifics.Don't forget this interview of Shin'en (GAF thread here) who praise the memory layout of the Wii U, so no, the DDR3 isn't a problem, you have to take into consideration all the rest.
WiiU Specs threads should be social studies about a person insecurity and complexs.
I don't get how hard is to just disscus the technical aspects of the system while leaving the BS defensive statements outside. The irony these threads always get invaded by people who suposedly don't think technical merits are the important part of videogames.
Regarding the memory, it seems the "slowness" will be offset by the eDRAM. The bad part is that if Nintendo went with cheap DDR3 then more of it should've been included.
That won't mean much too because the engines being developed to support the modern architecture in those consoles will be runnable on the WiiU.Until ps4 and 720's specs are revealed.
Bookmark your own post. It's going to be standard.
Where does that information come from?
When was the last time a system was shown on E3 and released that same year?
what is not going to happen? 1080p WILL be standard next gen
Current pc gamers are already playing games at 1080p and have been doing it for awhile. 1080p wasn't normal in 2005 but it is now
it's kind of sad that the thread is teetering on inanity now. oh well, there is always b3d.
The 'slowness' can be offset somewhat by the eDRAM, however that is not a simple thing for port teams.
At the beginning of the 360's life they use to brag that games were required to be 720p with MSAA to pass their TCRs. That lasted about until Halo 3 launched with a sub 720p resolution.
When they announced the console they've promised a console for everyone even for people who cared about hardware but they simply lied to us, with the wii they had the balls to release the console without pointing at amazing graphics because they were strong with their gimmick now the gimmick is weak as fuck but the console seriously is nothing more of the Wii of its generation...really nothing more.
I don't even care too much about 3rd party or sales (and as a end consumer no one of you should care about sales) i lived with N64 and GC and i thought they were fantastic consoles (GC for me is the second best Nintendo home console and third overall home console).
WiiU Specs threads should be social studies about a person insecurity and complexs.
I don't get how hard is to just disscus the technical aspects of the system while leaving the BS defensive statements outside. The irony these threads always get invaded by people who suposedly don't think technical merits are the important part of videogames.
Regarding the memory, it seems the "slowness" will be offset by the eDRAM. The bad part is that if Nintendo went with cheap DDR3 then more of it should've been included.
We'll see,i don't think nintendo will get good 3rd party support with the wiiu anyways.That won't mean much too because the engines being developed to support the modern architecture in those consoles will be runnable on the WiiU.
It's all about utilizing the hardware's new features and architecture, which those old engines aren't doing on the WiiU. Next gen engines will run a lot better on the WiiU than 360 or PS3, if at all.
You know, repeating your post is generally frowned upon. Also, I already answered you. Those comments were already discussed in their own thread, and we are now more interested in newly released concrete information than vague feel-good messages by developers.Yes, I dunno why none of the GAF experts are commenting on that, I'm very curious to know if it's plausible or something Shin'en pulled out of their ass for practically no reason whatsoever as the potential issues with RAM highlighted here weren't even known at the time to even assume they just wanted to defend the platform they're developing for or whatever else. If they just wanted some general purpose praise they didn't have to go to such details saying that it avoids RAM latency bottlenecks or any such specifics.
Ahahahahaha lol, at this point I don't know what's more sad, Nintendo fanboys trying to defend the abysmal low RAM speed or people like you still believing that 1080p will become a standard on next gen consoles. Sure 1080p will be more feasible, but devs won't use it to the extend that you are deluding yourself into believing.
We'll see,i don't think nintendo will get good 3rd party support with the wiiu anyways.
I reposted for new page because I ctrl+f alextended (and ideaman since I was quoting him) up to a few pages back and didn't see a reply but am really curious about it, link please? All I found is this from someone else.Also, I already answered you.
The "experts" on GAF are mostly people who know that 22 is larger than 17. The idea of different memory pools with different characteristics is as meaningful to them as a Farsi cookbook.
Yeah, that must be it. Or you know, maybe we already discussed those comments in their own thread, and are now more interested in newly released concrete information than vague feel-good messages by developers.
It's definitely sad alright.Ahahahahaha lol, at this point I don't know what's more sad, Nintendo fanboys trying to defend the abysmal low RAM speed or people like you still believing that 1080p will become a standard on next gen consoles. Sure 1080p will be more feasible, but devs won't use it to the extend that you are deluding yourself into believing.
Yeah, that's why you buy a PC instead if you're wanting that sort of rendering resolution. Console developer support should be even better than this generation, which was a significant step up from last generation.
I would love if Sony and MS struck deal that no game can be lower than 60fps @ 1080p with AA or 30 fps at 4k
It would be proconsumer choice
I will, I'm planning on running WiiU/PS4/PC next gen. Best of all worlds. Multiplats on PC, PS and WiiU for exclusives. It would take a miracle* for me to get another Microsoft console in the future.
*read Microsoft actually rethinking their monetization schemes to benefit customers.... lol
Margalis quoted part of your post. Which is now apparently gone. Who are you trying to fool here?I reposted for new page because I ctrl+f alextended (and ideaman since I was quoting him) up to a few pages back and didn't see a reply but am really curious about it, link please? All I found is this from someone else.
Don't forget this interview of Shin'en (GAF thread here) who praise the memory layout of the Wii U, so no, the DDR3 isn't a problem, you have to take into consideration all the rest.
PS360 were quite capable of 1080p60 and have such games. The day all games do it (or more) will be a matter of design choices made by software people rather than hardware people.Lovely Salsa said:Ofcourse it does. If they're aiming for a 1080p@60fps standard then the machine must be much more powerful than the current gen
Is that necessarily relevant, though? 640x480 or better were pretty common when PS1/N64 were doing a quarter of that. 1024x768 was pretty common by the time consoles got around to doing 480p regularly. 1280x1024 was no big thing years before the 2005-2006 consoles hit.Perkel said:I see most people don't realize that 1080p is standard resolution for games on PC for few years.
That was mainly bullshit from MS because PGR3 launched on the 360 in Sub HD.
I think 1080p will be what 720p was this gen. There will be a good chunk of Sub-1080p games, but I doubt a lot of games will go all the way down to 720p. It just looks too bad.
What if next gen PSN is no longer free to play online?
What are you even talking about, I was clearly asking for a link to your reply that I missed since you said "I answered you", I know I removed my post from the last page and put it to this one and wasn't trying to hide any of that since you just quoted me saying I reposted it (actually I wasn't even aware that's what you cared to discuss and backseat mod over the actual topic I was trying to get a reply to in this fast moving thread). If you wanna claim you just care to discuss the factual information over actual developer input on how it affects development in practice then there's no discussion to be had at all, just the OP, 22>17 etc.Margalis quoted part of your post. Which is now apparently gone. Who are you trying to fool here?
I do hope 1080p becomes more common next gen. My projector's dying for some 1080p content.
If not, I'll probably just buy a wireless HDMI adapter for my PC and keep a WiiU for Nintendo titles.
You know, repeating your post is generally frowned upon. Also, I already answered you. Those comments were already discussed in their own thread, and we are now more interested in newly released concrete information than vague feel-good messages by developers.
Your attempts at deflection are a bit sad, really.
Yes, the RAM seems slow, but it's 2GB (not 1.5), unified and it isn't the main RAM, while eDRAM is the main, and it should be 32 MB and it should offset the speed problems. This is what I'm gathering right now, also knowing we just can't compare PC RAM to console RAM.
I do hope 1080p becomes more common next gen. My projector's dying for some 1080p content.
Then the gulf between PC and console would be even bigger.
Well, here's my original reply: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44470477&postcount=442What are you talking about, I was asking for a link to your reply since you said "I answered you", I know I removed my post from the last page and put it to this one and wasn't trying to hide any of that
I think 1080p will be what 720p was this gen. There will be a good chunk of Sub-1080p games, but I doubt a lot of games will go all the way down to 720p. It just looks too bad.
Not really. Consoles are closed systems. But in a year or two yes there will be small gap that will enlarge with every year.
Yes, the RAM seems slow, but it's 2GB (not 1.5), unified and it isn't the main RAM, while eDRAM is the main, and it should be 32 MB and it should offset the speed problems. This is what I'm gathering right now, also knowing we just can't compare PC RAM to console RAM.
Margalis quoted part of your post. Which is now apparently gone. Who are you trying to fool here?
It was this one: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44470330&postcount=407
Do we need to call a mod to look at the edit history? This is pathetic.
Alextended said:What are you even talking about...
So it wasn't an answer to my question (asking actual experts to tell us if it's plausible, not because Shin'en said so but with the rest limited info about the various chip designs and general, er, plausibility) at all then, instead just trying to dismiss the possibility altogether, especially with that irrelevant (c). Thanks.Well, here's my original reply: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44470477&postcount=442
It was to Margalis, who was replying to you, so it's a transitive reply I guess. Anyway, as I'm pointing out for the third time now, the Shin'en interview is (a) old news, (b) vague and (c) coming from a developer with strong ties to Nintendo.
They only work on Nintendo systems.
wait... how did we get to the 17 GB/s number....
suppose the max clock speed is 1066 MHz so 2133 MT/s b/c it's DDR, with a 16-bits/transfer
2133 MegaTransfers/s * 16 bits/Transfer = 34128 Mbit/s -> 4.266 GB/s?
Ouside the ED Ram (which should help alleviate some of the bottlenecks associated with slower PC ram) you can absolutely compare this to PC ram.
In the same breath, you'll be able to do the same thing with other 8th gen consoles. (i.e. how do you think Microsoft is putting 8GB into theirs? It certainly won't be via GDDR5)
$499? lol.
...Microsoft aren't stupid enough to launch a console at $499 entrypoint and if Sony are stupid enough to do it again, they deserve to go down in flames.