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Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012

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Cool, I hope that is the case. I imagine I could get some use out of it, especially if I end up gaming in bed which I already do with my 3ds sometimes. One major reason the wii u appeals to me is because for some reason as I've gotten older the act of sitting in front of a tv and playing games has begun to lose its appeal.
I know what you mean sort of. For 90% of games I play, I can't get into the mood unless I'm in bed, or it's late at night. I can only play sports games/shooters during the day. I've beaten every handheld game I've ever played in my bed lol.
 
Exactly. That's the point. If Nintendo cannot figure out a way to include all these diverse character types without it negatively impacting the enjoyment of the level designs, then they shouldn't do that. If they can do both, they should. And when I say 'they can do' something, I mean 'in an affordable way and within the timeline needed to achieve their goals.'

I think that say's a great deal about your confidence in Nintendo EAD/misc teams. For some perspective, Team Meat did it with Super Meat Boy. With much less budget, marketing, and only being two people.

So it's not a quetion of "if Nintendo can do it", it's a won't not can't. They have the talent and resources to do this, and still sell as good as NSMBW, maybe better...they just won't. While they are at the same time shouting "we need hardcore support". Well, that starts with Mario in my view.


According to you, they're going to profit either way - Miis or no. So how is including Miis suddenly such a horrible thing? It's there for people who want it there. Period.

Yes, they will profit either way. It's just that one direction will come at the expense of another. Personally, I'd rather them do what I suggest, how about you personally? Including Mii's is fine as a option, but why not do so with other notable characters too, I'd argue whom are much more in demand as character than a Mii.
 
Exactly. If anything was lazy, it was using the toads.

tumblr_lk7xai4Jfz1qj4cfdo1_r1_500.jpg

Y U NO LIKE TOAD?

Also, all the BattleMii/ChaseMii demos will have been Wii assets like geometry and levels rendered at a higher resolution. They were lowly thrown together in a very short amount of time, and were made to show the console's features, not it's power.
Also, I was thinking - maybe the HD Zelda demo was made by Retro? They'd have more experience in pushing the power of the console, I'd imagine, and Nintendo said they got another studio to make it...
 

MDX

Member
I bet they're still trying to figure out how much processing and storage to put in the tablet controller, vs. streaming video / offloading processing to the Wii U main unit. I also think that Nintendo knows that this needs to launch at under $300 (i.e. 299 or 249) to build momentum before the NextBox launches.


No, they dont. They need compelling games.
The WiiU can sell for $400 if the perceived value is there.
 

Fredrik

Member
What in the world is the point of streaming if this is the case? I want to play this thing around the house, Nintendo :(
The point is that when you missus complain that you've played video games the whole day and now she wants to see Masterchef on the big TV, just when you're fighting a boss in Zelda U, then you just click a button, lay back in the sofa, keep on playing on the controller until Masterchef ends and then you click a button and play on the TV again. Priceless! :)
 

Log4Girlz

Member
The point is that when you missus complain that you've played video games the whole day and now she wants to see Masterchef on the big TV, just when you're fighting a boss in Zelda U, then you just click a button, lay back in the soda, keep on playing on the controller until Masterchef ends and then you click a button and play on the TV again. Priceless! :)

I love laying back in the soda.
 

Fredrik

Member
No, they dont. They need compelling games.
The WiiU can sell for $400 if the perceived value is there.
Right now it feels like I'll buy it even if it's $699... :/
But the masses won't, they probably won't go after it unless it's $249 since Nintendo will have a VERY hard time to get them to notice the generational leap needed to have a much higher price than the competition. In screen shots in games magazines WiiU games will compete with Uncharted 3, same thing on the boards, at the stores, on TV commercials, etc. And it will be a VERY tough battle. Sure, if they had that Zelda demo as a full game on launch then people probably would say wow and pay a little more than they planned to. But if they have Super MArio Bros Mii, Battle Mii and third party games that probably won't look much better than what we'll see on 360/PS3, then there is no way that they can sell if for twice the price of a 360/PS3.
 
If that's the only compromise, I would say "fuck yes".

Ditto. Hell, if the Wii U gets the head start it's expected too, and Nintendo work some magic and charm the 3rd parties, we may see Wii U titles being ported to NEXTBOX.

Of course, it all depends how capable the systems are.

Really, Microsoft are the decider. If PS4 blows everything out of the water, but the Wii U and NEXTBOX are comparable, then nintendo needn't worry too much.
But if it's the PS4 and NEXTBOX ahead together, then we may have another Wii situation on our hands.
 
I was reading an investor Q&A from last year and Iwata seemed adamant about not selling an expensive controller to consumers if there are not enough compelling uses for two tablets.
It's hard to imagine a situation where there aren't enough compelling uses for it in multiplayer, but it's considered a must-have feature for single-player.
 
If they don't sell separate controllers, they're in for some trouble. Nintendo really need to offer separate Upads for sale, even as replacements for broken ones.

Oh, and I really do hope 2 Upads can now be used. 4 would be perfect... perfect. But 2 is good enough for some games. I wonder if llhere can confirm the rumours/speculation on this? Two Upads now work, yes?
 

AzaK

Member
Streaming would be completely useless if I can't even play the Wii U version of Dark Souls in my bed, or around the house.

I'm curious: Does anyone in this thread have their gaming consoles hooked up to the primary television in their house? As in, the one your parents/family use to watch TV and shit? Since I got my N64 in 1996, I was never allowed to hook it up to my primary TV, and was relegated to my little shit TV in the basement.
Yup, my Wii and (now dead)PS3 are hooked to the main TV. We have a projector but I can never be arsed going down to the games room to play so I moved them upstairs. Moving house soon and won't even have that so its main TV forever.


Oh, and I really do hope 2 Upads can now be used. 4 would be perfect... perfect. But 2 is good enough for some games. I wonder if llhere can confirm the rumours/speculation on this? Two Upads now work, yes?
For me 2 controllers would be OK as I'm the only gamer in my house but over the next few years my little boy will get a bit older and be able to play. I also imagine that they need to do it for the obvious 2 player sports games. 4 is something I'll never need though and I really wonder how often people game with 2+ others these days.


I'm a grown man with money in my wallet...let me buy another fucking controller from the internet at least.
I'm with you on that one. The excuse Iwata gave about them being too expensive for consumers so that's why they won't be available is complete horseshit and I'm not buying it. If they were worried about cost to consumers, sell them for less huh? I imagine it was solely because it was only going to support one pad and they didn't want too look stupid selling other controllers that wouldn't work with the system. I admit I have no evidence to support my flawless theory.
 

z0m3le

Banned
I am hoping for 2 Upads and any combination of 3DSs to download the content ahead of time, so you can play 4sword/FFCC type games. A 3DS might not be ideal, but 4 player local should open up very well to that set up.

I also can't imagine a Wii situation with next gen... even if the next "HD Twins" are vastly superior to Wii U, they will still use the same controller designs, and the same modern shader architecture. Wii U should be able to accomplish anything the next gen "HD Twins" could do, granted with less special effects and lower resolution/AA.

Seeing BF3 on PS3 though really opened my eyes to how small a difference that really looks like in the end. I play it on my PC at 1080p on ultra with 60fps, but if I am choosing between playing any of these multi-platform games between a 360 controller/ps3 controller or a Upad? it will always be the Upad. Streaming to the controller is BIG to me, I don't play my 360 very much, I don't play my Wii very much either, both because I don't really feel like setting up everything just to fool around for a hour or so, but if all I have to do is pick up the Wii U controller and hit the power button on it to play whatever game I want (expecting that game to be in the drive or on the hdd)... I really like that. It will really bring me back to console gaming in a big way.

PS: I really don't get the big fuss over worrying about the amount of controllers... Nintendo said a couple days after e3 2011 that 2 controllers could work together, I am sure that any developer thinking about doing a 4 swords/ffcc game would be able to push extra 3DSs to cover 2 more players, that shouldn't even be hard to accomplish, if you have 2 Nintendo gamers they likely already have the 2 3DSs and as long as you can buy 1 Upad to work as a "co-pilot" you'd be set. (co-pilot is exactly how they should explain the second Wii U pad, since 3 or 4 won't work and a few people are likely to buy 3 for their system... co pilot should hopefully limit the damage this would cause.)
 
For me 2 controllers would be OK as I'm the only gamer in my house but over the next few years my little boy will get a bit older and be able to play. I also imagine that they need to do it for the obvious 2 player sports games. 4 is something I'll never need though and I really wonder how often people game with 2+ others these days.

Hm, but for someone like me who plays a bit of 4 player Mario Kart when I have people round, it's kinda important. There'll always be arguments over who gets the Upad!
For multiplayer games like MK, 4 Upads is kinda integral to the enjoyment of the game.
 

AzaK

Member
Hm, but for someone like me who plays a bit of 4 player Mario Kart when I have people round, it's kinda important. There'll always be arguments over who gets the Upad!
For multiplayer games like MK, 4 Upads is kinda integral to the enjoyment of the game.
Sorry, I realise some people would love 4 pads, I really meant to say that I don't think Nintendo will think it's important enough to put the Dev time and cost into it.
 
Sorry, I realise some people would love 4 pads, I really meant to say that I don't think Nintendo will think it's important enough to put the Dev time and cost into it.

Ah I see, it really depends what their stance is on home multiplayer. If they're serious about making the Wiimote the second control method, then they'll probably just stick with 2 Upads.

2 Upads = better opportunities for devs who want to utilise this method, but not as costly as 4 thus keeping price low.

It would be nice if they gave you the option, though.

Like, again, Mario kart Wii - Gamecube pad, Wiimote, Wiimote and nunchuck... you get the idea.

Mario Kart Wii U - Upad, Wiimote, Classic Controller Pro, muddy stick... whatever you want.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Sorry, I realise some people would love 4 pads, I really meant to say that I don't think Nintendo will think it's important enough to put the Dev time and cost into it.

It really isn't just about this, streaming to 4 u-pads would be possibly limited by 1 thing that 3DSs wouldn't have to worry about...is video bandwidth, what you can push through the air in whatever tech they are using, likely syncing 4 child devices from a parent device would leave a lot of lag. With 3DSs though, it would be more like a LAN, the Wii U would act as a server with 1 player on the pad and possibly more on the tv, with multiple 3DSs connecting to the server, downloading the map and playing the race from their own screens... it could technically be expanded to 8 players this way very easily, since connecting to a local server through wifi/bluetooth would have an abundance of bandwidth, simply because they are not pushing a large video signal through the air...

To be perfectly honest, I think using 2 Upads depending on current HD streaming tech, could limit it to a lower resolution, it would sort of suck to have to play with 1 u pad and great crisp imagines or 2 u pads and half that resolution, or even worse, interpolated.
 

MDX

Member
Right now it feels like I'll buy it even if it's $699... :/
But the masses won't, they probably won't go after it unless it's $249

That 200 to 299 has always been the sweet spot for the "masses"
But Nintendo does not need to sell initially to the masses.

Nintendo can sell first to early adopters for one.
You are not the only one I have heard that would be willing to pay more than
$400 for the WiiU.

And two, Nintendo can also sell to families.
Like computers, TVs, etc. A family spending $400 or more does not
seem like much if its a product that can be shared amongst the whole family.

And thats what the tablet does. The tablet allows for families to
stay together in the living room. The Wii also had this appeal. It brought families and friends together. Devices such as those have high perceived values.

This is what Nintendo can do this year. Sell the WiiU the first part of the second half of the year to first adopters (E3 hype), and then market to families (xmas hype) at the end of the year. Nintendo can hold that price for at least a year if it has compelling software to back it up.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
I think Razer took the "two controllers attached to a screen" concept a little too literally.

Razer-Project-Fiona-Tablet,Q-P-322369-22.jpg


This is literally one of the early fan mock-ups of the Wii U controller and Razer just said: "Let's do this thing and roll with it."
 

z0m3le

Banned
That 200 to 299 has always been the sweet spot for the "masses"
But Nintendo does not need to sell initially to the masses.

Nintendo can sell first to early adopters for one.
You are not the only one I have heard that would be willing to pay more than
$400 for the WiiU.

And two, Nintendo can also sell to families.
Like computers, TVs, etc. A family spending $400 or more does not
seem like much if its a product that can be shared amongst the whole family.

And thats what the tablet does. The tablet allows for families to
stay together in the living room. The Wii also had this appeal. It brought families and friends together. Devices such as those have high perceived values.

This is what Nintendo can do this year. Sell the WiiU the first part of the second half of the year to first adopters (E3 hype), and then market to families (xmas hype) at the end of the year. Nintendo can hold that price for at least a year if it has compelling software to back it up.

I think the 3DS's launch and more recently Vita have shown that you don't want to launch at a high price, even new hardware can fail to catch fire if the price is too high... I think 349.99 is the price Nintendo will shoot for. It will be higher than Wii, but they won't price it at 399.99 against a 199.99 360 or PS3.

Wii sports like success isn't going to happen this time around, we will see it sell out as long as some games are there that people really want, but to be perfectly honest, unless a new 3D Mario is there, I don't think they can afford a slow start like the 3DS and I am unsure Vita can even recover from their low sales... The perceived value of that device is so low, that they will have to sell it even further under cost...
 

MDX

Member
I think the 3DS's launch and more recently Vita have shown that you don't want to launch at a high price, even new hardware can fail to catch fire if the price is too high... I think 349.99 is the price Nintendo will shoot for. It will be higher than Wii, but they won't price it at 399.99 against a 199.99 360 or PS3.

Wii sports like success isn't going to happen this time around, we will see it sell out as long as some games are there that people really want, but to be perfectly honest, unless a new 3D Mario is there, I don't think they can afford a slow start like the 3DS and I am unsure Vita can even recover from their low sales... The perceived value of that device is so low, that they will have to sell it even further under cost...


Using the perceived value of the 3DS and VITA to the WiiU does not work. Like I said in my post, the value of the Wii and WiiU comes from their appeal as social devices. Portables are not social devices. Families or friends don't come over each other's houses to play 3DS or VITA. They are personal devices. So a single user has to feel that paying $250 for an entertainment device has value. And as a gift for a single user, it is expensive.

But, I will say this about the 3DS, its initial sales were very good. It simply lost momentum for a while due to the lack of quality games in its launch window. I maintain that Nintendo did not have to lower its price to get 3DS sales to pick up.

And recently, a business analysts said the same thing. The price drop did not increase 3DS sales. When the quality games were released, thats when the sales really started to pick up.

Nintendo most likely dropped the price of the portable due to (as hinted at in the press) pressure by third parties who were or had made exclusive deals with Nintendo. Some of those deals materialized during TGS.

Since its appearance during CES, the WiiU has sparked people's imaginations. The Zelda demo still impresses even after games like Skyrim has come out. The Tokyo demo has made people imagine all kinds of fun uses for games. For example Mario Kart Double Dash , or other single player games that can be turned into two player games. The social appeal of the console is growing, and its visuals is a noticeable step up from this gen.


Now here is why I think Nintendo might launch WiiU right after E3 2012.

Imagine, Nintendo getting a(n exclusive) console deal to show the Olympics on the WiiU? One member of the family can watch sport Y on their TV, while another can follow sport X on the WiiU tablet?




.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Using the perceived value of the 3DS and VITA to the WiiU does not work. Like I said in my post, the value of the Wii and WiiU comes from their appeal as social devices. Portables are not social devices. Families or friends don't come over each other's houses to play 3DS or VITA. They are personal devices. So a single user has to feel that paying $250 for an entertainment device has value. And as a gift for a single user, it is expensive.

But, I will say this about the 3DS, its initial sales were very good. It simply lost momentum for a while due to the lack of quality games in its launch window. I maintain that Nintendo did not have to lower its price to get 3DS sales to pick up.

And recently, a business analysts said the same thing. The price drop did not increase 3DS sales. When the quality games were released, thats when the sales really started to pick up.

Nintendo most likely dropped the price of the portable due to (as hinted at in the press) pressure by third parties who were or had made exclusive deals with Nintendo. Some of those deals materialized during TGS.

Since its appearance during CES, the WiiU has sparked people's imaginations. The Zelda demo still impresses even after games like Skyrim has come out. The Tokyo demo has made people imagine all kinds of fun uses for games. For example Mario Kart Double Dash , or other single player games that can be turned into two player games. The social appeal of the console is growing, and its visuals is a noticeable step up from this gen.


Now here is why I think Nintendo might launch WiiU right after E3 2012.

Imagine, Nintendo getting a(n exclusive) console deal to show the Olympics on the WiiU? One member of the family can watch sport Y on their TV, while another can follow sport X on the WiiU tablet?




.

Perceived value works with consoles as well. The PS3 even with Bluray and wireless could not overtake 360 even though they had virtually the same games and Playstation was the greater brand name at the time.

Price matters, especially in our economy, and even if the 3DS sales picked up when games came out, that does not mean that those same sales would be had at a $250 price point. Vita sold really well for a day or two as well. Early adopters will buy the Wii U, but for the impact and especially to push their head start, a price point at $349.99 while ps3 and 360 are selling around $200 is where Nintendo should set their sights. Selling beyond 400 would be foolhardy, $399.99 while being a reasonable price, most of it's market is broke, and selling out every month for a year would do wonders to push Wii U that much further.

I'm with you in the hype train, I love everything Nintendo, and I'm excited about the Wii U as well, but without a lead Nintendo game to sell the system (Mario 64, Mario Land 3D, Mario Galaxy sequel, or Zelda Sequel) This system will not get off to the start it would at 349.99 or below.

TL:DR Without a heavy hitter at launch, Nintendo needs to leverage their price point in their favor. Remember 360's successor might come out this xmas, Nintendo doesn't want to fight toe to toe with Microsoft, it wants to use its head start to create a giant niche (say 60% of the gaming market) for the Wii U.

Also the Olympics would be an interesting twist, but it has little to do with the pricing of the console, besides a marketing partnership like that would eat up the extra 50-100 dollars you are talking about.
 
I often play the Wii with my iPad in my lap. I wonder if Nintendo or any developers have considered a setup like that. Is it asking too much of the gamer? I think a Super Guide is an obvious use, but in Zelda it could be the menu screen. I really liked the motion controls in Skyward Sword and I'd love to see them used again, but I can't see Nintendo not using the Upad for the next game.
 
Here's the quote from the OP where it seems to insinuate there's a decent chunk of storage on the remote.

Oh my god I get it. Player data is stored on the cloud, on their new network. Your controller keeps a player ID, from your console, for you to take anywhere with the Upad. When you get to someone else's house, the system recognises a new ID and downloads the relevant data onto the system. From there, that system can keep getting updates over the net now that it has recognised that initial ID.

It's seamless, effortless and works. All it needs is a constant internet connection.
 

ugoo18

Member
Direct feed from Battle Mii. Looks like Wii assets rendered at 720p. :(
yzgd4.jpg


Direct feed from New Super Mario Bros. 720p with no anti-aliasing.
hE8LZ.jpg

bGAVn.jpg


Looks bad imho.

Wow, I really like the roundness and firmness...

81s14.jpg


... of the controller. ;)

How and where did you get those Direct feed shots?

Did Nintendo release a Direct feed video of those games?
 

FyreWulff

Member
I thought everyone just wanted 720p for clarity? Those are obviously tech demos, but if every single game was a bumpmapped Gears of War orgy, it'd be a pretty boring console.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Why do every Direct Feed screenshots or videos of Nintendo games suck all the time?

Or am I just too used to bullshots?
 

Caramello

Member
Why do every Direct Feed screenshots or videos of Nintendo games suck all the time?

Or am I just too used to bullshots?

Pretty much no screenshot released for PS3 prior to the game release has looked like the final product on my 37" Full HD TV.

However quite a few titles looks much better in motion so it balances out.

So the answer to your question is yes, however I wouldn't put much stock in those pics either.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Well, I guess they are more like gameplay tech demos more than tech demos period, so Nintendo didn't put much effort in the visuals. They just wanted to show the kind of gameplay the new controller could bring.
 

Xun

Member
Direct feed from Battle Mii. Looks like Wii assets rendered at 720p. :(
yzgd4.jpg


Direct feed from New Super Mario Bros. 720p with no anti-aliasing.
hE8LZ.jpg

bGAVn.jpg
Neither will turn into proper games as they are now.

They obviously used previous assets and made them both quickly for demonstration.

No need to worry.
 

Vinci

Danish
I think that say's a great deal about your confidence in Nintendo EAD/misc teams. For some perspective, Team Meat did it with Super Meat Boy. With much less budget, marketing, and only being two people.

Super Meat Boy isn't a multiplayer game. That adds a level of complexity that even Team Meat decided not to try.

Wikipedia "Super Meat Boy" said:
...the release date was pushed back as the design was changed to include more levels and exclude multiplayer modes...

So yes, I'm suggesting that doing what you want may very well be harder than you think. And I think that says more about your opinion of Team Meat. They're fantastically good game designers in any context.

So it's not a quetion of "if Nintendo can do it", it's a won't not can't. They have the talent and resources to do this, and still sell as good as NSMBW, maybe better...they just won't.

I'm not suggesting it's impossible for Nintendo to pull this off, but I think you're underestimating the challenge involved in doing it. Nintendo is a conservative company, always has been. What I'm saying isn't so much "I hope they don't do this;" it's more like, "I don't think they will do this because of X,Y, and Z."

While they are at the same time shouting "we need hardcore support". Well, that starts with Mario in my view.

Adding online multiplayer to Mario would do 100x more for the game with the crowd you mention than having diverse Mushroom Kingdom characters would. If the 'hardcore' actually cared so much about Mario titles, they'd already be buying them - Miis or no. Mario isn't the key to getting support from the dudebro types; online and third parties are.

Yes, they will profit either way. It's just that one direction will come at the expense of another. Personally, I'd rather them do what I suggest, how about you personally? Including Mii's is fine as a option, but why not do so with other notable characters too, I'd argue whom are much more in demand as character than a Mii.

Pretty sure Miis will go over better with the younger members of my family, to be honest, and it's the sort of thing their parents and grandparents will have fun watching. "Oh, look at Riley!" as she's hovering over everyone else in a bubble. Which was one of the major keys to the success of the Wii in the first place. So I think Miis are a very good choice from a marketing standpoint.

Personally? If I were going to play the game with just my traditional gaming friends? The extra nuance might be nice. But I doubt my scope of players is going to be so focused.

*shrugs*

In the end, I'm pretty indifferent. As long as I'm having fun, I don't much care how that is achieved.
 

FyreWulff

Member
My problem with making characters with different physics in NSMB has already been mentioned - making the levels accomodate all of them either ends up with:

- Levels that are the jack of all trades but the master of none
- Less levels since they essentially have to make a level for 4 different play models instead of one
- People wanting to play as a certain character for a certain level as that character will become 'optimal' for playing it.

SMB2 was neat, but there was generally a character everyone chose for certain levels and stuck with when they got to that world. It also helped that the groundwork had already been laid down for Doki Doki Panic in the first place.
 

AntMurda

Member
Neither will turn into proper games as they are now.

They obviously used previous assets and made them both quickly for demonstration.

No need to worry.

Are you going to lose sleep at night if they do? Because I think they are absolutely proper games and will look "better" but will still keep a simple look compared to other high profile HD games. Not every game needs to look like Uncharted 4. Some games will probably have the simple NSMB / Wii Sports look but just in HD. Other games will look like the Zelda demo or better.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
I could see New Super Mario Bros. Mii becoming a real game. And Battle Mii and Find Mii plus others together is a "Mii Collection" of sort. Maybe bundled with the console, even.
 
I still don't think NSMBM will be a retail game.
And certainly not as it is now.
Everything Nintendo has shown so far has just been Wii engines running at a higher resolution. Not meant to be system showcases, just controller showcases.
 
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