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[lordfroakie]

Yes, plus there's no guarantee that they could do a full buy out.
It would be better to hire the employees that leave and buy off licenses when they are sold off.

Wasn't THQ granted rights to use Nintendo characters at one point?

Edit: Wonder what happen to it:

(THQI) 22.41 -0.15: Co states in today's 8-K that: "On January 25 Nintendo of America and THQI ("Registrant") entered into a Confidential License Agreement for the Nintendo DS handheld platform. The agreement grants the Registrant the right to use certain of Nintendo's intellectual property to develop, publish and distribute video games for the Nintendo DS handheld platform until Jan 25, 2008 in all countries in the Western Hemisphere in accordance with the terms of the agreement. Nintendo charges the Registrant certain amounts under its current pricing schedule, which prices includes including manufacturing as well as a royalty for the use of Nintendo's intellectual property. Nintendo has the right to approve each game..."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33992

 

[guek]

I better add some context to this. I wouldn't call it a conclusion. I would say it's no more than a hypothetical scenario of what would easily be many scenarios IMO. This is based on the Wii U GPU (last I heard) will have some unknown (by me) "Nintendo-designed" feature(s). Those unknowns could be anything. I think my version is slightly different from wsippel's. If these unknowns were fixed and/or programmable functions (no TEVs), they would have silicon dedicated to them. From there the GPU would have something like 400-480 ALUs. Run-of-the-mill ports would most likely only take advantage of the 400-480 ALUs and in turn would not have much of a difference, if any, between Wii U and PS360 games. Games built from the ground up would incorporate these functions on top of the ALUs allowing for a more noticeable difference. So if this custom GPU were say 600Mhz, just with the ALUs you're looking at 480-576 GFLOPs (2-2.4x Xenos). Games that incorporated the other hardwired functions while using the shaders would make the GPU equivalent to a 1 TFLOP or more GPU.

Again I just want to reiterate this is just a hypothetical of what the GPU might look like if it didn't resemble a "traditional" GPU that had 640-800 ALUs.

All the more reason I want to see 1st party games on this sucker

 

[Agent Unknown]

Rosti: GAF's own James Bond?

Anybody who can use 'dirty tactics' and supposedly force NOA to react to something is not just a James Bond, they 're a Daniel flippin' Craig James Bond. Just caught that post and I'm like whoa....

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

All the more reason I want to see 1st party games on this sucker

it'll be like the ps3 was this gen, the first party offerings blew everything this generation out of the water compared to 99.9% of 3rd party offerings. I think WiiU will do the same.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Anybody who can use 'dirty tactics' and supposedly force NOA to react to something is not just a James Bond, they 're a Daniel flippin' Craig James Bond. Just caught that post and I'm like whoa....

Proof is in the pudding.... and Rosti, I don't see no pudding

 

[bgassassin]

Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. If I might ask, what kind of hardwired functions would you expect to be included? I read blu mentioned the Flipper's TF and TC units. So them plus hopefully a modern tesselation unit. Anything else?

Edit: I also wonder how much texture memory might be included.

Though I mentioned it briefly awhile back, thraktor gave an actual example of something my scenario would include.

 

[lwilliams3]

I better add some context to this. I wouldn't call it a conclusion. I would say it's no more than a hypothetical scenario of what would easily be many scenarios IMO. This is based on the Wii U GPU (last I heard) will have some unknown (by me) "Nintendo-designed" feature(s). Those unknowns could be anything. I think my version is slightly different from wsippel's. If these unknowns were fixed and/or programmable functions (no TEVs), they would have silicon dedicated to them. From there the GPU would have something like 400-480 ALUs. Run-of-the-mill ports would most likely only take advantage of the 400-480 ALUs and in turn would not have much of a difference, if any, between Wii U and PS360 games. Games built from the ground up would incorporate these functions on top of the ALUs allowing for a more noticeable difference. So if this custom GPU were say 600Mhz, just with the ALUs you're looking at 480-576 GFLOPs (2-2.4x Xenos). Games that incorporated the other hardwired functions while using the shaders would make the GPU equivalent to a 1 TFLOP or more GPU.

Again I just want to reiterate this is just a hypothetical of what the GPU might look like if it didn't resemble a "traditional" GPU that had 640-800 ALUs.

Oh, I didn't consider how much silicon would be required to add additional functions. I understand what you and Wsippel are coming from. That could give Wii U's GPU a boost in graphical ability without a significant increase of raw power.

 

[lednerg]

Would the (supposedly off-the shelf) GPU in the original dev kits have been able to mimic this theoretical fixed-function unit? Or would its functionality have been completely new to devs in the last couple iterations of the dev kits? Do you think the demos at E3 were using it?

 

[TheCongressman1]

Proof is in the pudding.... and Rosti, I don't see no pudding

Chocolate Pudding, shaken, not

Spoiler

Talk, damn it!

.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Proof is in the pudding.... and Rosti, I don't see no pudding

Rosti, call Reggie and Iwata and tell them to release an Earthbound compilation "or else."

 

[axisofweevils]

Sorry if this was already posted.

Nintendo partners with Green Hills Software for Wii U dev tool

Nintendo announced on Thursday that it has partnered with tools developer Green Hills Software to provide a development solution to all companies creating games for the upcoming Wii U console.

Developers making Wii U software will receive Green Hills' MULTI integrated development environment, which promises to help teams produce high-performance, efficient code.

"We selected the Green Hills Software solution because it generates highly optimized code, and Green Hills provides excellent global support," said Genyo Takeda, Nintendo's senior managing director of Integrated Research & Design.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...h_Green_Hills_Software_for_Wii_U_dev_tool.php

 

[Snakeyes]

So what did I miss in the last 2 weeks?

 

[Anth0ny]

So what did I miss in the last 2 weeks?

Nothin at all!

 

[bgassassin]

Oh, I didn't consider how much silicon would be required to add additional functions. I understand what you and Wsippel are coming from. That could give Wii U's GPU a boost in graphical ability without a significant increase of raw power.

That's why the shader count is reduced in my scenario. These functions would get the silicon and transistors that would have been dedicated to the extra shaders in my guessed specs.

Would the (supposedly off-the shelf) GPU in the original dev kits have been able to mimic this theoretical fixed-function unit? Or would its functionality have been completely new to devs in the last couple iterations of the dev kits? Do you think the demos at E3 were using it?

No. This scenario would most likely only be seen in hardware that came out this year.

Also it could be units and programmable in that scenario. Each designed to handle a certain function or functions. which I believe would allow the GPU to efficiently achieve a certain level without the additional heat from adding more shaders. And at the same time if there is truth to the UE4 rumor and GPU tweaks, this is the type of GPU that I can see needing tweaks for compatibility over a more traditional GPU.

 

[Snakeyes]

Nothin at all!

Lame

Has anything good been announced for 3DS at all?

 

[HylianTom]

Sorry if this was already posted.



http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...h_Green_Hills_Software_for_Wii_U_dev_tool.php

Yup.. earlier in the page.

Still, pehaps the most interesting official story all day..

 

[bgassassin]

Yup.. earlier in the page.

Still, pehaps the most interesting official story all day..

Considering it was posted here even longer ago than earlier in the page, that should show how little official info there has been to suggest it's the most interesting.

 

[guek]

I dunno man. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if fixed-function units would be worth it over more traditional GPUs. BG mentioned less heat, but overall the effort it would take to engineer such a chip and the likely increased unique manufacturing costs seem like it wouldn't make it worth it in this day and age.

 

[HylianTom]

Considering it was posted here even longer ago than earlier in the page, that should show how little official info there has been to suggest it's the most interesting.

Indeed.

(aside: replaying StarTropics tonight. Either I'm a wimp, or the game has gotten tougher in the past three years since I last played through it.)

 

[Agent Unknown]

Nothin at all!

Where's this spoof from? Metal Gear Flanders is scaring me.

 

[Redford]

Anyone know how the Nordic Developer conference turned out? Sort of hoping we'll see something by Playdead make it to Wii U.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Indeed.

(aside: replaying StarTropics tonight. Either I'm a wimp, or the game has gotten tougher in the past three years since I last played through it.)

I'll say it again, it's a crime StarTropics wasn't one of the Ambassador games.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I know I posted this some pages ago but I so much love this shot:

Now imagine Nintendo EAD (forget which team) doing a Zelda with dozens of times more shader power than GCN/Wii's fixed function shader power (regardless of how many SP).

oh facepalm.gif I forgot, the Wii U Zelda demo

 

[bgassassin]

I dunno man. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if fixed-function units would be worth it over more traditional GPUs. BG mentioned less heat, but overall the effort it would take to engineer such a chip and the likely increased unique manufacturing costs seem like it wouldn't make it worth it in this day and age.

There's been too much focus only on fixed function. Like I mentioned they wouldn't have to be fixed. Another thing this is based on is how long people were working on it. It essentially took 2.5 years from beginning to end. In the end the only "truth" in this are Nintendo's influences.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I better add some context to this. I wouldn't call it a conclusion. I would say it's no more than a hypothetical scenario of what would easily be many scenarios IMO. This is based on the Wii U GPU (last I heard) will have some unknown (by me) "Nintendo-designed" feature(s). Those unknowns could be anything. I think my version is slightly different from wsippel's. If these unknowns were fixed and/or programmable functions (no TEVs), they would have silicon dedicated to them. From there the GPU would have something like 400-480 ALUs. Run-of-the-mill ports would most likely only take advantage of the 400-480 ALUs and in turn would not have much of a difference, if any, between Wii U and PS360 games. Games built from the ground up would incorporate these functions on top of the ALUs allowing for a more noticeable difference. So if this custom GPU were say 600Mhz, just with the ALUs you're looking at 480-576 GFLOPs (2-2.4x Xenos). Games that incorporated the other hardwired functions while using the shaders would make the GPU equivalent to a 1 TFLOP or more GPU.

Again I just want to reiterate this is just a hypothetical of what the GPU might look like if it didn't resemble a "traditional" GPU that had 640-800 ALUs.

I'm no expert, but this sounds highly inefficient, and detrimental to get 3rd party ports. I guess the Nintendo designed stuff has more to do with running GC and Wii games without latency. But then again, I know nothing about this.

Also just a quick question: Do we even know which Chip design was used before cusomization began? Isn't the current speculated chip to start from an educated guess at best?

 

[Anth0ny]

Where's this spoof from? Metal Gear Flanders is scaring me.

It's based on this Simpsons joke:

And Snake's stupid sexy ass in Brawl:

Found it on google, found it appropriate since this is a Nintendo thread, lol.

 

[Bagu]

That reminds me, either Kojima makes a good game on a Nintendo platform to make up for the bad MGS3 port, or Snake is booted off the Smash Bros roster.

 

[Gahiggidy]

So what did I miss in the last 2 weeks?

Speculation evolving to the point of the Wii U GPU being an under-clocked HD7770 derivative.

----

I know I posted this some pages ago but I so much love this shot:

Now imagine Nintendo EAD (forget which team) doing a Zelda with dozens of times more shader power than GCN/Wii's fixed function shader power (regardless of how many SP).

oh facepalm.gif I forgot, the Wii U Zelda demo

But I'm less interested in how much better Link will look than I am on how expansive and detailed the game world can be with this new generation. Making the same game's prettier should be easy, but I think a real boost in power is needed in order to create game worlds not possible on existing consoles.

The background tree lines and mountains are sprites. Can the Wii U allow Link to span the gully-boundaries and have him travel through those forests and reach the top of the mountain peaks? Without transitions?

 

[lednerg]

Supposing Nintendo went ahead with something like this, then it would've only been for a very good reason. Most likely, they saw some bottlenecks with current GPU tech that could be solved this way. If you had hardware-based photon mapping, for instance, it would make for some very effective lighting improvements which devs could have at their disposal practically for free. (Hell, I'd kill for something like that at my job; lightmaps take forever to calculate, especially for animations.)

Here's the thing though, since we all love teh console warz drama and all, would the next consoles from MS and Sony be able to match this performance via typical programmable shaders?

 

[HylianTom]

I'll say it again, it's a crime StarTropics wasn't one of the Ambassador games.

Agreed. It was a chance for Nintendo to get the StarTropics name and series out there and into the minds of crowds who aren't as familiar with it. It's a 22-year-old series, so younger folks aren't as likely to know much about it. Too bad, because it's a damn good game. And that soundtrack.. mmm..

 

[Agent Unknown]

It's based on this Simpsons joke:

And Snake's stupid sexy ass in Brawl:

Found it on google, found it appropriate since this is a Nintendo thread, lol.

lol "Stupid Sexy Flanders!"

 

[aeroslash]

Is there any specific reason you have for believing that there's a fixed-function part in the GPU? I'd be interested to know the evidence/thought process that lead to it (if it's not based on confidential info).

The one potential fixed-function feature that sticks out in my mind would be lighting. Good lighting is good lighting whatever game it's in, so fixed function lighting hardware is a sensible area to trade off versatility for efficiency. One very interesting (although also very unlikely) possibility would be to include dedicated ray-tracing hardware in the GPU. Now, I'm not saying that such hardware would produce actual fully ray-traced rendering in games (we're still a good few years away from seeing that in games), but even rather limited ray-tracing hardware could be used to augment standard rasterized rendering.

For an example, have a look at this video. In a nutshell, the technique they're using is to render direct illumination in the normal manner on the GPU, and then to use the CPU to perform photon tracing for one or more bounces, the results of which are then rasterized into a lightmap for final rendering. It can produce pretty nice effects in real-time, but it's running full-tilt on two quad-core CPUs to do so, and even then doesn't manage particularly good frame-rates.

CPUs and GPUs are pretty poor at handling ray-tracing, though, and there is dedicated ray-tracing hardware out there, such as this academic design and a ray-tracing co-processor from Caustic Graphics, who are now owned by Imagination Technologies (who make the PowerVR GPUs used in phones like the iPhone). Most of these technologies (and there are quite a few others, not to mention papers on the use of FPGAs for the purpose) are intended for full ray-traced rendering, though, calculating tens of millions of rays per second. A ray-processing unit on a standard GPU would only need to be able to calculate a few hundred thousand rays per second to match the performance of the video above, and perhaps a million or so to do so at a good framerate.

I don't know if this is technically feasible (blu will probably arrive shortly to tell me the many reasons it isn't), but it's interesting to speculate what might be coming down the tracks in terms of new GPU hardware.

This would be amazing. Although i don't see it happening, lighting is one of the most taxing operations in the CG world, but with very apparent results when improved. That would really make the graphics shine above what we have seen in this current gen. Hope t'he GI in the Garden and Zelda demo are because of something like that!

 

[herzogzwei1989]

But I'm less interested in how much better Link will look than I am on how expansive and detailed the game world can be with this new generation. Making the same game's prettier should be easy, but I think a real boost in power is needed in order to create game worlds not possible on existing consoles.

The background tree lines and mountains are sprites. Can the Wii U allow Link to span the gully-boundaries and have him travel through those forests and reach the top of the mountain peaks? Without transitions?

That would be badass! I fully agree with you BTW.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Agreed. It was a chance for Nintendo to get the StarTropics name and series out there and into the minds of crowds who aren't as familiar with it. It's a 22-year-old series, so younger folks aren't as likely to know much about it. Too bad, because it's a damn good game. And that soundtrack.. mmm..

It would've been incredible if they'd gone over the top and also given us Earthbound Zero. Can you imagine? Gaf'ers would've been killing each other to get Ambassador DS systems. lol On a more realistic note, StarTropics and Punchout should've been in place of at least two of the titles we received. GBA Ambassador lineup was soooo much better.

 

[antonz]

anything fixed function beyond the norm means Nintendo fucked up its that simple. Nintendo spends too much time focusing on itself while talking out its mouth about working for everyone else.

They have done the song and dance before and its never worked out well for them. It cant be that hard to just do what 3rd parties want. If its issues on Nintendos end then they need to teach their teams what everyone else is doing

 

[HylianTom]

That would be badass! I fully agree with you BTW.

I said it a long, long time ago: I want to play a Zelda game where I can get lost and have no earthly idea of where I am. If I found myself in that situation, I wouldn't be scared or worried - I'd be enthralled.

I know that many roll their eyes at comparisons between Elder Scrolls games and Zelda games (and yes, much of that "What Zelda could learn from Skyrim" shit was nauseating), but if I could have the overworld of, say, Oblivion combined with the caves, tombs, fortresses, palaces, ruins, and towns of the best Zelda games, I'd be in absolute heaven.

Give me a huge variety of landscapes, a large selection of trees/bushes/vegetation, large ponds/streams/lakes with explorable beds, a metric ton of sidequests, perhaps a main quest where I have to make choices that will affect my abilities or paths in the story.. then give me some cool items early-on so that I actually have time to enjoy them in different settings, and give my Link character different skills that can be improved-upon as the game progresses, maybe even points in the game where I have to choose a specialty (bow-heavy Link? sword-heavy Link? magic-heavy Link?) that's what I would want in my ideal Zelda game.

(I just read that, and damn if I didn't ramble. But I seldom go on about where I'd like to see Zelda go. So I'm gonna leave it there. Not like any of that's ever going to happen.)

 

[Anth0ny]

That reminds me, either Kojima makes a good game on a Nintendo platform to make up for the bad MGS3 port, or Snake is booted off the Smash Bros roster.

But then everyone loses =(

I said it a long, long time ago: I want to play a Zelda game where I can get lost and have no earthly idea of where I am. If I found myself in that situation, I wouldn't be scared or worried - I'd be enthralled.

I know that many roll their eyes at comparisons between Elder Scrolls games and Zelda games (and yes, much of that "What Zelda could learn from Skyrim" shit was nauseating), but if I could have the overworld of, say, Oblivion combined with the caves, tombs, fortresses, palaces, ruins, and towns of the best Zelda games, I'd be in absolute heaven.

Give me a huge variety of landscapes, a large selection of trees/bushes/vegetation, large ponds/streams/lakes with explorable beds, a metric ton of sidequests, perhaps a main quest where I have to make choices that will affect my abilities or paths in the story.. then give me some cool items early-on so that I actually have time to enjoy them in different settings, and give my Link character different skills that can be improved-upon as the game progresses, maybe even points in the game where I have to choose a specialty (bow-heavy Link? sword-heavy Link? magic-heavy Link?) that's what I would want in my ideal Zelda game.

(I just read that, and damn if I didn't ramble. But I seldom go on about where I'd like to see Zelda go. So I'm gonna leave it there. Not like any of that's ever going to happen.)

I think Dark Souls is as close as we're going to get.

Hopefully the next Souls game gets a Wii U release. That would be neat.

Spoiler

Zelda would get outshined by another adventure game on the same console!

 

[AzaK]

That's why the shader count is reduced in my scenario. These functions would get the silicon and transistors that would have been dedicated to the extra shaders in my guessed specs.

No. This scenario would most likely only be seen in hardware that came out this year.

Also it could be units and programmable in that scenario. Each designed to handle a certain function or functions. which I believe would allow the GPU to efficiently achieve a certain level without the additional heat from adding more shaders. And at the same time if there is truth to the UE4 rumor and GPU tweaks, this is the type of GPU that I can see needing tweaks for compatibility over a more traditional GPU.

There's been too much focus only on fixed function. Like I mentioned they wouldn't have to be fixed. Another thing this is based on is how long people were working on it. It essentially took 2.5 years from beginning to end. In the end the only "truth" in this are Nintendo's influences.

Bg, apart from heat is there any other advantage to this mixed system? Also, other than fixed, what other options are there?

The whole thing seems so bizarre because couldn't Nintendo achieve the same thing with regular shaders and then 3rd parties could make use of them off the bat without reworking engines. And same for engine makers too of course. A bit of heat can be solved with better cooling case so it would seem to me that there would have to be a pretty damned big advantage to some sort of crazy spilt method.

And lastly.....is there something you know about something or other <nudge nudge wink wink>?

 

[guek]

anything fixed function beyond the norm means Nintendo fucked up its that simple. Nintendo spends too much time focusing on itself while talking out its mouth about working for everyone else.

They have done the song and dance before and its never worked out well for them. It cant be that hard to just do what 3rd parties want. If its issues on Nintendos end then they need to teach their teams what everyone else is doing

I agree overall. While it might be great for nintendo, it's a burden on third parties. In the end, the costs greatly outweigh the benefits.

The fact that nintendo has been so actively speaking with 3rd parties as of late and their recent dedication towards providing middleware and incentives for development on their platform lead me to believe we wont see a low clocked, fixed function GPU.

It wouldn't be abnormal for nintendo to make such a move though.

 

[Gahiggidy]

I said it a long, long time ago: I want to play a Zelda game where I can get lost and have no earthly idea of where I am. If I found myself in that situation, I wouldn't be scared or worried - I'd be enthralled.

I know that many roll their eyes at comparisons between Elder Scrolls games and Zelda games (and yes, much of that "What Zelda could learn from Skyrim" shit was nauseating), but if I could have the overworld of, say, Oblivion combined with the caves, tombs, fortresses, palaces, ruins, and towns of the best Zelda games, I'd be in absolute heaven.

Give me a huge variety of landscapes, a large selection of trees/bushes/vegetation, large ponds/streams/lakes with explorable beds, a metric ton of sidequests, perhaps a main quest where I have to make choices that will affect my abilities or paths in the story.. then give me some cool items early-on so that I actually have time to enjoy them in different settings, and give my Link character different skills that can be improved-upon as the game progresses, maybe even points in the game where I have to choose a specialty (bow-heavy Link? sword-heavy Link? magic-heavy Link?) that's what I would want in my ideal Zelda game.

(I just read that, and damn if I didn't ramble. But I seldom go on about where I'd like to see Zelda go. So I'm gonna leave it there. Not like any of that's ever going to happen.)

Would you be happy with a version of TWW but on land? I wonder if the reason TWW was on water was to make it easy on the 'Cube to render and stream in new Islands. With the Wii U perhaps there is enough overhead to present a fully realized landscape to the player. And the Wind Waker art style could allow the devs to be a little more repetitive with the texture/modeling of the overworld and not have to give every nook and cranny of the world a unique design. Also, one idea I always wanted in a TWW overworld game is the ability to climb any tree and look across Hyrule to see areas far in the distance you haven't reached yet. That and raging river-rapids. Always wondered what rapids would look like in that cell-shaded style.

 

[HylianTom]

But then everyone loses =(



I think Dark Souls is as close as we're going to get.

Hopefully the next Souls game gets a Wii U release. That would be neat.

Spoiler

Zelda would get outshined by another adventure game on the same console!

Sadly, I have series OCD and I'd want to see the first one first before playing a second one.

But it does make me think about how much I would love a western RPG on the Wii U. It's the one genre that I love and obsess over that a Nintendo console has never been home to.

I very rarely harp about what I would like Retro to do (indeed, that conversation usually makes me scroll-by a bit more quickly), but - more than anything - I'd love to see them give Bethesda a run for their money in the wRPG genre, 'cause Bethesda is never going to bring anything of substance to a Nintendo console. A huge open world, customizeable character, an excellent stealth system, an excellent bow-and-arrow combat mechanic, guilds for side-questing, different races of characters, a gigantic catalogue of clothes/armor/weapons/jewelry (make loot whores rejoice!), a sizeable list of skills, trainers, etc etc.

I'd basically want to see them try to out-Bethesda Bethesda, if that makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[Roo]

Did you guys see this? Sorry if old.

Nintendo wants to meet YOU at Nordic Game 2012!

Get new business done during your NG experience: Sign up for PITCH & MATCH @ NORDIC GAME today!

Nordic Game 2012 is proud to present the Pitch & Match b2b system, premiering at the NG12 conference on 24-25 May.

We have just launched the system, and companies such as Pan Vision, Autodesk, and dtp entertainment have already signed up. And of course Nintendo:

"Nintendo is interested to meet with talented game development teams and explore publishing opportunities for original Nintendo 3DS and Wii U game proposals", says Tim Symons, Sales Planning & Strategy, Nintendo.

Could that mean YOU?

Source

Interesting. It seems Nintendo is really looking forward to make their teams bigger
and getting indie developers on board

 

[udivision]

I said it a long, long time ago: I want to play a Zelda game where I can get lost and have no earthly idea of where I am. If I found myself in that situation, I wouldn't be scared or worried - I'd be enthralled.

I know that many roll their eyes at comparisons between Elder Scrolls games and Zelda games (and yes, much of that "What Zelda could learn from Skyrim" shit was nauseating), but if I could have the overworld of, say, Oblivion combined with the caves, tombs, fortresses, palaces, ruins, and towns of the best Zelda games, I'd be in absolute heaven.

Give me a huge variety of landscapes, a large selection of trees/bushes/vegetation, large ponds/streams/lakes with explorable beds, a metric ton of sidequests, perhaps a main quest where I have to make choices that will affect my abilities or paths in the story.. then give me some cool items early-on so that I actually have time to enjoy them in different settings, and give my Link character different skills that can be improved-upon as the game progresses, maybe even points in the game where I have to choose a specialty (bow-heavy Link? sword-heavy Link? magic-heavy Link?) that's what I would want in my ideal Zelda game.

(I just read that, and damn if I didn't ramble. But I seldom go on about where I'd like to see Zelda go. So I'm gonna leave it there. Not like any of that's ever going to happen.)

You sound like me describing That Pokemon Game. Neither game will ever be made though.

 

[HylianTom]

Would you be happy with a version of TWW but on land? I wonder if the reason TWW was on water was to make it easy on the 'Cube to render and stream in new Islands. With the Wii U perhaps there is enough overhead to present a fully realized landscape to the player. And the Wind Waker art style could allow the devs to be a little more repetitive with the texture/modeling of the overworld and not have to give every nook and cranny of the world a unique design. Also, one idea I always wanted in a TWW overworld game is the ability to climb any tree and look across Hyrule to see areas far in the distance you haven't reached yet. That and raging river-rapids. Always wondered what rapids would look like in that cell-shaded style.

As far as art style and scale of overworld, yes! The Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda title, and my favorite Zelda art style.

I also loved the game most because there was soooooo much to do! Every square on the map had a submarine to explore, or platforms to clear, or holes in the ground to jump into, or a salesman, or a shrine. It was fantastic! My favorite part of the game is always when the whole map opens-up and I can systemically go from square to square, feeding Fishman and exploring as I go. And then there was the gigantic project called "The Nintendo Gallery" - so fantastic!

So yes.. Wind Waker, in a number of ways, was a step in the right direction. Such a beautiful game..

 

[herzogzwei1989]

*cries*

...but I like the Twilight Princess / Zelda Wii U demo style oh ever so much more than TWW.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I said it a long, long time ago: I want to play a Zelda game where I can get lost and have no earthly idea of where I am. If I found myself in that situation, I wouldn't be scared or worried - I'd be enthralled.

I know that many roll their eyes at comparisons between Elder Scrolls games and Zelda games (and yes, much of that "What Zelda could learn from Skyrim" shit was nauseating), but if I could have the overworld of, say, Oblivion combined with the caves, tombs, fortresses, palaces, ruins, and towns of the best Zelda games, I'd be in absolute heaven.

Give me a huge variety of landscapes, a large selection of trees/bushes/vegetation, large ponds/streams/lakes with explorable beds, a metric ton of sidequests, perhaps a main quest where I have to make choices that will affect my abilities or paths in the story.. then give me some cool items early-on so that I actually have time to enjoy them in different settings, and give my Link character different skills that can be improved-upon as the game progresses, maybe even points in the game where I have to choose a specialty (bow-heavy Link? sword-heavy Link? magic-heavy Link?) that's what I would want in my ideal Zelda game.

(I just read that, and damn if I didn't ramble. But I seldom go on about where I'd like to see Zelda go. So I'm gonna leave it there. Not like any of that's ever going to happen.)

I think this game will be made at some point, in some capacity. But like others have said it won't be a Zelda game, unless a different team were to handle it. Personally I think Nintendo needs to give EAD Kyoto a long break on Zelda, and at least hand it off to Tokyo.

But I like your ideas, pretty in-line with a lot of my own.

 

[HylianTom]

*cries*

...but I like the Twilight Princess / Zelda Wii U demo style oh ever so much more than TWW.

Don't get me wrong - I don't dislike those styles, and you won't find me bashing them for it. But - and I know that this will sound sappy - the Wind Waker's style was very effective for creating moments that were very emotionally touching. I can immediately think of several moments from Wind Waker that grab my heartstrings in a very effective manner, but for Twilight Princess, I have to sit and think for a bit.

 

[Bagu]

As far as art style and scale of overworld, yes! The Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda title, and my favorite Zelda art style.

I also loved the game most because there was soooooo much to do! Every square on the map had a submarine to explore, or platforms to clear, or holes in the ground to jump into, or a salesman, or a shrine. It was fantastic! My favorite part of the game is always when the whole map opens-up and I can systemically go from square to square, feeding Fishman and exploring as I go. And then there was the gigantic project called "The Nintendo Gallery" - so fantastic!

So yes.. Wind Waker, in a number of ways, was a step in the right direction. Such a beautiful game..

I just noticed, every 3D Zelda game has a piece that would make a great overworld, but is held back by missing something.

Majora's Mask has a good amount of content, but is bit too small
Wind Waker has a large enough map and has some content, but the sea kinda limits it.
Twilight Princess also has a good sized overworld, but a few caves aside, no were near enough context.
Skyward Sword's pre-dungeon areas have a decent enough size and a fair enough of things to do, but is held back by being disconnected from one another.

IF you take all their strengths, Zelda could finally have an excellent overworld.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Don't get me wrong - I don't dislike those styles, and you won't find me bashing them for it. But - and I know that this will sound sappy - the Wind Waker's style was very effective for creating moments that were very emotionally touching. I can immediately think of several moments from Wind Waker that grab my heartstrings in a very effective manner, but for Twilight Princess, I have to sit and think for a bit.

I just love exploring and the artstyle of Twilight Princess much more than the TWW. I'd admit, as a TW fan, TWW had some fantastic animation and some 'moments' of greatness.

 

[cyberheater]

Ok, let's do this.

Ignore everything written in these speculations threads since 10 months

Now check a video of the japanese garden demo on Wii U from E3 2011, with AT THE VERY LEAST, a Xbox360+ content on the main screen + a 480p content on the padlet.

You know as a FACT that this demo was quickly built, run on firsts iterations of the dev kit (we are 4 dev kits after at the moment), on firsts SDK, etc etc etc.

Check a video of Ghost Recon Online with the UAV drone. You have at the very least, a current gen HD game + a different content on the padlet. Again, it was one year ago, on firsts dev kits, etc etc etc.

So you have at the very least:

A xbox360 on the main screen
A 480p xbox360 on the second screen. Let's say 480p + calculating a second view/scene/content from the same hardware is demanding, so it's roughly 0,5x xbox360

1 xbox 360 + 0,5x Xbox 360 = 1,5x xbox360

This was the situation one year ago, with all the elements derived from the very important context that i've described i don't know how many time. Add to that, at worst case scenarioS, just tweaking here and there, small boosts, optimizations, advancements in titles development, graphical polishing for these softs, devs being more and more accustomed to the asymmetrical setting (again, small improvement here), etc etc, all that since one year, you have, let's say roughly 0,5x xbox360 (through slightly better framerate, better/greater AA/texture filtering, and some things that the current gen GPU's can't handle).

So 1 xbox 360 + 0,5x Xbox 360 + 0,5x Xbox 360 = 2x Xbox 360, at the very least, considering the two screens. The Wii U isn't "on par" technologically, period, and this demonstration has always considered the worst that could have happened.

I understand your viewpoint but if the visuals on the main screen are only 10% better then Xbox360 then as far as I'm concerned, it's on par. The fact that it's also rendering to the padlet doesn't matter.

One thing does concern. If the CPU has the same performance as the 360 (based on rumour), and it's working on scenes for both screen and padlet, I can see that in some instances, games will perform less well then on PS360.