How Konami approached Kojima to make Project Ogre a WiiU title and he refused.
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Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto
- Thread starter AceBandage
- Start date
How Konami approached Kojima to make Project Ogre a WiiU title and he refused.
Sound advice.
And even though Nintendo's situation is incredibly different from Sony's, watch how differently gaming media outlets handle the loss news for each. Mmm hmm.
Might I recommend a downplay on thread titles for the next go around? While I do like the enthusiasm on all sides, I can't help but feel that some people who might lurk for news get put off when the discussions go awry and we make photoshops of old school movies with the big Nintendo heads involved. 
As I said before, I do enjoy it because it's pretty much what GAF has been for as long as I've been around, but I just want to see how many more people would post here if things were more contained and info was made apparent.
As I said before, I do enjoy it because it's pretty much what GAF has been for as long as I've been around, but I just want to see how many more people would post here if things were more contained and info was made apparent.
That sounds just like Kojima. I believe it. Dude hates supporting Nintendo systems.
ShockingAlberto
Member
It was about Kojima and Project Ogre, yeah. KojiPro couldn't take on another SKU and Konami was trying to decide what to do at that point.
It was funny, because Konami called me and tried to get me to give up names and stop posting stuff. I said no and they were sort of like "Oh...okay." But I cut off contacts with my Konami person then because it actually got kind of dangerous for his/her job.
In that same post, I called Namco out for being incompetent about Ridge Racer and having no idea what to do what to do for the Wii U launch and they did not give a single fuck.
It was funny, because Konami called me and tried to get me to give up names and stop posting stuff. I said no and they were sort of like "Oh...okay." But I cut off contacts with my Konami person then because it actually got kind of dangerous for his/her job.
In that same post, I called Namco out for being incompetent about Ridge Racer and having no idea what to do what to do for the Wii U launch and they did not give a single fuck.
I think last E3 (or was it one of the Nintendo Directs?), Konami had some big time Contra reboot/big scale project coming up and Alberto was privy to that info along with some other things related to the 3DS (all of which were true). Of course, it got out on GAF and everything but the Contra game came to pass. Trailer was supposedly ready but pulled last second.
Long story short, Konami got mad and something happened behind the scenes, hence his post above.
EDIT: Nevermind, LOL
Pachter: "Nintendo has three more years before they go bankrupt."
Random analyst: "Nintendo's revenue would increase 100 fold as an iOS exclusive developer."
That one guy from IGN: "YES NINTENDO IS GOING TO DIE FUCKING FINALLY!"
Well there was that and some sort of CV game iirc.
Funny that Konami contacted him about the Kojima thing though.
Agent Unknown
Member
What?! Can't believe I missed that. Stay classy, Kojima. I mean his own company, Konami themselves asked him to support a Nintendo home console and he says no? Wow.
Power Stranger
Banned
Oh man...I have this aching feeling that I will be sorely disappointed with the WiiU, still learn to love it, get excited for Nintendo's next console....and rinse, wash, repeat...
Hhhhhhh
Hhhhhhh
Agent Unknown
Member
Wow, that was very interesting, thanks. Good on you for not revealing your source like a good journalist.
NO
"Oh....ok."
lol
Nice. And 1Up, and GameSpot, etc etc etc. Buncha Robert Summa wannabes.
The first-party games will be scrumtrulescent, and you'll be able to count the number of third-party gems on your fingers. The sooner you get comfortable with it, the sooner you find peace as a Nintendo fan. It's okay.
Agent Unknown
Member
Wow, that's crazy. So is the supposed Contra game still coming possibly?
ShockingAlberto
Member
SPEAKING OF WHICH THIS IS INFORMED SPECULATION BASED ON WHAT I HAVE HEARD DEVELOPERS TALKING ABOUT LATELY
DO NOT TAKE THIS AS FACT AND DO NOT START CHICKEN LITTLEING BECAUSE OF THIS POST. EVEN IF EVERYTHING I HAVE HEARD IS 100% ACCURATE, THERE COULD BE REASONS IT WILL NOT HOLD TRUE FOREVER.
I'll say that you should not expect the moon with the Wii U.
Everything I have been told is "best of the current generation by a country mile but not significantly beyond that."
It is the XBox to the PS2. The Gamegear to the Gameboy. The Mad Men Alison Brie to Community's Alison Brie. It'll look better, but generational transition probably won't apply to it.
On the plus side, there will probably be nothing hardware-wise stopping downgraded ports from what people think the new XBox will offer. We're talking, like, Witcher 2 on high settings vs. Witcher 2 on low settings. Same game, same basic idea, different graphics.
But games that do take advantage of the Wii U's hardware are going to blow this current gen out of the water. I am not sure we'll see that at E3 (seriously, think back to nearly every console's launch, most of those titles don't stand up today), but I'm sure we'll see it eventually.
DO NOT TAKE THIS AS FACT AND DO NOT START CHICKEN LITTLEING BECAUSE OF THIS POST. EVEN IF EVERYTHING I HAVE HEARD IS 100% ACCURATE, THERE COULD BE REASONS IT WILL NOT HOLD TRUE FOREVER.
I'll say that you should not expect the moon with the Wii U.
Everything I have been told is "best of the current generation by a country mile but not significantly beyond that."
It is the XBox to the PS2. The Gamegear to the Gameboy. The Mad Men Alison Brie to Community's Alison Brie. It'll look better, but generational transition probably won't apply to it.
On the plus side, there will probably be nothing hardware-wise stopping downgraded ports from what people think the new XBox will offer. We're talking, like, Witcher 2 on high settings vs. Witcher 2 on low settings. Same game, same basic idea, different graphics.
But games that do take advantage of the Wii U's hardware are going to blow this current gen out of the water. I am not sure we'll see that at E3 (seriously, think back to nearly every console's launch, most of those titles don't stand up today), but I'm sure we'll see it eventually.
Too be fair, its not like we know how it went down. It's possible he wanted extra resources to do it and Konami said no. I have a hard time believing he simply doesn't want to work with the platform.
Damn, Alberto telling them ninjas off. I approve.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
just comparing those 2 bold points, do they go together? Could the Xbox if taken advantage of blow the PS2 out of the water? I honestly can't remember.
edit: ah yes that does work, forgot the xbox had an hd game
lol fascinating, you win this page.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The XBox was a crazy beast if used right. But it was just an analogy, it wasn't meant to be a proper comparison of power.
Dreamcast to N64 might be a better comparison?
Agent Unknown
Member
AHGGGHHHHH! He's speaking in caps, this is gonna be BAD! PANIC!!!!
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Closer to the 2013 consoles or the 2005/6 consoles?
Thanks SA. Question: Are those two bolded statements equivalent, or is the top one essentially the "base" level of Wii U and then if an developer applies themselves it's going to "blow current gen out of the water".
Regardless, even if it's not the "next-gen" leap everyone is clamouring for, "blowing out of the water" ain't a bad place to be!
-Pyromaniac-
Member
yeah I see what you're saying, you just meant positionally, not power wise. If you meant power wise then the dreamcast comparison works better.
Which isn't bad at all to be honest. Good enough to get ports from 3rd parties, and also good enough for Nintendo to make impressive 1st party games that will make the leap worthwhile*
*assuming they uhhh actually do this.
bgassassin
Member
I believe it mainly because I've drawn the same conclusion based on what I learned about the hardware.
I honestly don't see why they'd care. It's probably the most positive thing I've heard Konami do in years. I could only fault them for not trying harder, Kojima's not the boss of them. Unless they were worried about NDA breaks, then I could see the reaction, but even still... knowing they WANT big names on WiiU is pretty telling that they, one of Nintendo's worst supporters, want to be on-board in a big way. It's GOOD PR for them, for a change.
I've said it like this:
Think of the games we've seen this generation.
Take the visually best of the Wii.
Take the visually best of the PS3.
Note this difference (#1).
Now, think of the games we're going to see in this upcoming generation.
Imagine/estimate the best of the 720.
Imagine/estimate the best of the Wii U.
Note this difference (#2).
#1 is going to be much more dramatic than #2, because the lesser value from #2 is going to be much nicer, and the greater value isn't going to be that much of an increase from the previous gen's high end.
In order to see the differences, you're going to have to look more closely. You'll have to pause the video, and say things like, "look at that character's cheekbones at thirty-four seconds" and "check-out the draw distance at 2:28."
It's going to be very difficult to take anyone seriously who claims that the Wii U's graphics suck or that the 720 blows anything out of the water. Those days are soon behind us. Critics will have to settle for some other angle of mockery.
Think of the games we've seen this generation.
Take the visually best of the Wii.
Take the visually best of the PS3.
Note this difference (#1).
Now, think of the games we're going to see in this upcoming generation.
Imagine/estimate the best of the 720.
Imagine/estimate the best of the Wii U.
Note this difference (#2).
#1 is going to be much more dramatic than #2, because the lesser value from #2 is going to be much nicer, and the greater value isn't going to be that much of an increase from the previous gen's high end.
In order to see the differences, you're going to have to look more closely. You'll have to pause the video, and say things like, "look at that character's cheekbones at thirty-four seconds" and "check-out the draw distance at 2:28."
It's going to be very difficult to take anyone seriously who claims that the Wii U's graphics suck or that the 720 blows anything out of the water. Those days are soon behind us. Critics will have to settle for some other angle of mockery.
nordique
Member
Agent Unknown
Member
The tablet can't handle the possibly 'delicate taboo issues' that Kojima might explore with the game. *yawn*
Anth0ny said:
No kidding, that was amazing. I've re-read that part several times, it's so good.
Quite honestly if this holds true then the little Wii U will be strong. I think more than anything Nintendo is banking on harsh economic realities to lessen the gulf between the Wii U and the next Xbox/Playstation
Making a port for Vita instead of Wii U is such a stupid decision.
Definitely.
It's about what I'm expecting from the Wii U to be honest. I'm just hoping they're able to wow me with their 1st party in HD and with surprise game announcements. *crossing fingers for Metroid Wii U and/or F-Zero Wii U*
"Wii U is a special case blah blah blah" - signed Kojima.
Pretty much. I think they're going to be on staggered generations going forward and 5 years from now the cycle will repeat. I can't wait to see what Nintendo does with all of that power though.
bgassassin
Member
This isn't just a ninja style confirmation is it BG?!
Remember my hypothetical scenario?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
What Alberto said it was most rational people in this thread have been thinking as the "realistic" scenario. There is a worst case, a best case, and a realistic middle ground.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
well, Nintendo's own titles ought to maximize the hardware. For example, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin and Smash remained some of the prettiest on the console throughout its lifespan.
Oh jesus, you're expecting my fragile mind to remember everything in these threads?! Let me think......are we talking about mixed hardware, as in the shaders + TEV 2.0/Magic Lighting Tech (I know it might not be exactly that) scenario?
The Wii U is basically the equivalent to an Xbox 360 Wii. All clues see to point towards HD twin quality games with twice the over-all memory and perhaps the ability to run a current gen engine at 1080p.
Surely, with its motion sensors, cameras and rear and front touch input, the Vita is a special case, and any game Kojima developed for it would have to be unique?
TheCongressman1
Member
Yep, it's not going to matter much anymore. Graphics are reaching their ceiling for now. These Generation gaps are going to get smaller and smaller in that sense.
But will third-parties working on the "true" next generation hardware be willing to pursue such downgraded ports? That's the concern.
Don't worry. You're on my ignore list, so it won't happen again. ^_^
Also, XBox vs PS2 was what I expected from the start, so I wouldn't get upset anyway.
I'm rackin' my brain here: do we have any folks here who still expect a beefy, monster-powered console? Despite the reputation we fans have outside of this thread, there are lots of realistic (even pessimistic/jaded) folks in here.
Tonight's been really, really good stuff. I'm enjoying it.
Agent Unknown
Member
nordique said:
Same here, I actually find this pretty good news if true as long as it doesn't simply enable more third party excuses.
Man, SA delivering behind scenes tidbits and smacking down ninjas. Glad I stuck around in the thread tonight.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Not what I am expecting. Xbox to PS2 sounds awfully disappointing.
Well, I want at the very minimum a box that performs at 2010 levels. Not a 2008 box, which should like what ShockingAlberto described.
I'd be comfortable with this, although I'd always want to push for more obviously. PS2 to Xbox/N64 to Dreamcast is a fairly significant power boost however. Count that with the APIs and graphical effects offered by newer hardware, the hardware should be ok. They'll have at least a year to have the best looking games on the market, which is time enough to build a base that will support downports from the other next gen consoles. Compare that to the Wii where you had a console that may or may have not been more technically superior to the original Xbox, and launched a year after the 360.
We'll see how it pans out, I'd hope that the WiiU is at least this powerful though.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
this isn't pleasing enough for you?:
I mean we all want more, but that's not something to scoff at.
If you're a Nintendo-only gamer, you're going to see a jump from ~1999 to 2008/09 (depending on what spec you look at). Not too shabby at all!
ShockingAlberto
Member
Whenever I multi-quote, I think of that scene from Futurama where they go to a Blurnsball game and start screaming "MULTI-BALL, MULTI-BALL"
The games are going to look closer to 2012 games on 2006 hardware than they will 2015 games on 2013 hardware, if that makes sense.
This isn't to say that, like, Uncharted 3 is going to be the cap. Given enough time, enough resources, etc., it's going to show how much the difference between 2006 and 2012 matters.
Right. Think like, well, the Dreamcast. Namco tore that thing up. Soul Calibur was legitimately on par with the PS2's best for the first year. Given enough time, maybe the DC would have gotten a lot more out of it. All it will take is the right developer (probably Nintendo) and the right amount of time.
I would guess Konami's main issue is that they did not want people knowing that Kojima does not answer to them. That has financial ramifications. If the market demands a new Metal Gear Solid from Kojima and he does not want to do it, then they'll look weak and investor confidence could tank.
The games are going to look closer to 2012 games on 2006 hardware than they will 2015 games on 2013 hardware, if that makes sense.
This isn't to say that, like, Uncharted 3 is going to be the cap. Given enough time, enough resources, etc., it's going to show how much the difference between 2006 and 2012 matters.
Right. Think like, well, the Dreamcast. Namco tore that thing up. Soul Calibur was legitimately on par with the PS2's best for the first year. Given enough time, maybe the DC would have gotten a lot more out of it. All it will take is the right developer (probably Nintendo) and the right amount of time.
I would guess Konami's main issue is that they did not want people knowing that Kojima does not answer to them. That has financial ramifications. If the market demands a new Metal Gear Solid from Kojima and he does not want to do it, then they'll look weak and investor confidence could tank.
XBox vs PS2 (2.5-3x power difference) was always the best case imo. :/ Well, maybe Wii vs. Vita was the best case...
If by 2010 you mean on-par with a 5870, that was never realistic at any point.
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