My plans only fit halfway: I plan on holding out on buying a second or third system for as long as possible (I only bought a PS3 in mid-2008 and a 360 in mid-2010). Ideally the same is gonna happen next time. Nintendo system first, hoping my PC still carries me through a few more years (bought fresh hardware mid-2011) and then slowly getting into the other systems in 2-year intervals if at all. The actual reason for all this is simply money. (this current gen is the first where I have owned every console incl. an up to date PC)
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Wii U Thread - Now in HD!
- Thread starter lordfroakie
- Start date
- Status
My plans only fit halfway: I plan on holding out on buying a second or third system for as long as possible (I only bought a PS3 in mid-2008 and a 360 in mid-2010). Ideally the same is gonna happen next time. Nintendo system first, hoping my PC still carries me through a few more years (bought fresh hardware mid-2011) and then slowly getting into the other systems in 2-year intervals if at all. The actual reason for all this is simply money. (this current gen is the first where I have owned every console incl. an up to date PC)
This thread seem to have taken a doom & gloom route since I last checked it.
Before I go into lurk-mode again, just let me get this straight.
Current consoles have been receiving ports (and will continue to receive for a next 1yr +)from significantly more capable PC hardware. But somehow, in the midst of all this speculation regarding RAM, the Wii U(having more RAM/features than current consoles) is in danger of not being able to run downports from Xbox8, PS4 - both of which are expected to be no more capable than current hi-end PCs? Hmmm... OK.
Wait, WHAT?! Did I understand those fears correctly?
Is this one of those "because it's a Nintendo console" thing agian? I understand being concerned since Wii U WILL be the least powerful console of the coming generation. However, these fears of things being another Wii situation have become rather chronic among some people.
Before I go into lurk-mode again, just let me get this straight.
Current consoles have been receiving ports (and will continue to receive for a next 1yr +)from significantly more capable PC hardware. But somehow, in the midst of all this speculation regarding RAM, the Wii U(having more RAM/features than current consoles) is in danger of not being able to run downports from Xbox8, PS4 - both of which are expected to be no more capable than current hi-end PCs? Hmmm... OK.
Wait, WHAT?! Did I understand those fears correctly?
Is this one of those "because it's a Nintendo console" thing agian? I understand being concerned since Wii U WILL be the least powerful console of the coming generation. However, these fears of things being another Wii situation have become rather chronic among some people.
No. The PC received the ports not the other way around.
It would be fascinating to read an analysis from people who know their way around psychology and history. I bet there are some frightening parallels between what's going on in this thread specifically and some villages or caves many many centuries ago lol.
Initially, yes. Recently the trend seems to have swayed into the other direction.
Spieler Eins
Member
It's bad enough that internal teams do not have any full-fledged games other than Pikmin ready for launch window in the first place, but launch year should be the time in which you present games for at least 12 months ahead. You are supposed to start an exciting new generation, ffs. Instead, nothing looks worth owning a new system. As I've also said, I don't see ,,we know that games are coming'' as an excuse. Zelda is coming... sometime, probably, in the next 5 years. Wow, that gives me confidence in this thing! With this idiotic silence, it's the best thing to expect droughts, easily the best bet. It's Nintendo after all. It could also happen that the next batch of games consists of franchises one is not interested in, or that they are crappy looking. Usually, one should be excited about Intelligent Systems. Yet their very first HD game looks like utter shit. They apprently weren't even able to get a proper Warioware game ready.
To me it simply feels like that they try to cover up how ridiculously they fucked up with this console by pulling this nonsensical ,,launch window only'' strategy out of nowhere. Even if not, it's a moronic idea and in both cases I can only hope that they get an even bigger slap than the 3DS with this.
Wtf? You seriously question whether Nintendo's big studios are preparing games for the Wii-U? You won't believe Retro is doing something until you see it? Do you go through your life only relying on induction? Must be tough for you. I can tell you 100% that we'll see new entrys by all of Nintendo's big studios on the Wii-U, and I don't even have to see them to know they are coming, because it is ridiculously obvious.
If you were satisfied with the Wii as your sole console the Wii-U should be just as good, it will have better 3rd party support than Wii, and will have all the nintendo games. Most people bellyaching, and even the most pessimistic see taht that is obvious, the argument is whether they will get nearly as much as the Ps4720, to answer, we'll see. If Wii-U is the best selling japanese console I could see quite a few exclusives coming from that region, if not, don't worry, Nintendo's own games are certainly coming, it's really silly to question that.
ShockingAlberto
Member
While not really having a dog in this fight, I have to say that I have never seen someone so angry about a console before.
I thought you were a Nintendo fan? Are you not aware of their policy of announcing games rather quickly before they are released, that has nothing to do with whether games are coming, just a quabble with their marketing.
They have been doing it for quite a while, no need for you to get hysterical.
test_account
XP-39C²
It isnt not about it being technical possible, but rather that 3rd parties wont devote time and money doing the port. And the PC to console ports seems to be more rare than common. Its often the other way around instead (console to PC).
That said, it isnt much need to be too concerned about this now in my opinion. Better to wait at least 6-7 months after the console has been released to see instead.
First, yeah... Kojima game not coming to WiiU? Color me shocked.
To your question, though? Square Enix are considering mainline Final Fantasy for it, so obviously they're looking at the system for more than spinoff titles. Tecmo Koei should have more in the pipeline, unless you think that relationship will end abruptly with Ninja Gaiden 3. Level 5 wants to make content for it and said as much back in 2011. Hell, even graphics whore Itagaki wanted to bring Devil's Third to it, but that game hasn't managed to get off the ground. I'm sure I could dig up more if I went hunting for it.
And yeah, there's THAT, as well.
We'll see about that.
I've brought this up before, apparently Platinum signing up to have a game published by Nintendo is not of any significance whatsoever.
Right here. If the 3rd party games don't come to WiiU, I will enact the same console time-share strategy I had with my roommate this generation. He took my Wii for a month, I took his PS3, did so at least 4 times a year. It's not something I WANT to continue to do, but I have the option to. And if he decides not to wait for the next PlayStation and gets a WiiU, I'll just invest into upgrading a PC rig, since I rarely borrowed his PS3 for the Sony exclusives and can get all of it in PC form.
test_account
XP-39C²
When talking about if 3rd parties will support a system, mentioning 1st party titles doesnt really mean much in this regards. The good news about P-100 is that Nintendo wanted to publish such a game, but it is no indication about how good the 3rd party support will be in general.
It'd only be 1st-party if Nintendo owned Platinum, FYI.
Spieler Eins
Member
I'm aware of that and I'm also aware of it whenever they simply messed up. Their policy started at around 2008 and yet it barely ever looks this bad for them. Unless they truly have nothing ready, which had to happen sooner or later. Though it's embarassing that it had to happen at the very beginning on the consoles lifecycle, so my expectations have hit rock bottom...
test_account
XP-39C²
There is a small difference between an internal developed game and a 3rd party developed game, but published by 1st party indeed, but it is still counted as a 1st party title. Since Nintendo publish it, i'm pretty sure that they own the IP. I'd compare it a bit to Insomniac Games. They are not owned by Sony, but they made a lot of games for Sony platforms. The games that they made are still concidered as 1st party games, like Ratchet & Clank and Resistance.
Agent Unknown
Member
So is 1 GB reserved for games all but confirmed or is 1.5 GB still possible and a lot of this discussion is still the result of fallout from the Eurugamer article? I really hope not because I totally agree it makes Nintendo look stingy and also a bit foolish. How do they expect core gamers and third parties to take them seriously when they pull stunts like making Nintendo Land a huge focus at E3 and not future proofing at least a bit with RAM? 1 GB could seal the deal for a lot less multiplatform titles once the other two systems are in swing.
This scenario may end up being more common than some people think. At my last job, a co-worker I carpooled with was a huge gamer, he owns a Wii, a 3DS, a 360 and does a lot of PC gaming, buys a ton of stuff on Steam. He used to own a PS3 and now does most of his gaming on XBL and his PC. One day we were talking about the current controversy with big companies coming down on used games and the possibility of 720 and PS4 locking out used games and maybe not even having BC and he cut me off right there in mid sentence and said "If ANY of that happens, I will NOT get the next XBox (he's already been done with Sony for awhile). I'll sell my 360 and just go with the next Nintendo console and my PC." Of course it may also help that he's a long time Nintendo fan and buys almost every first party game he can get his hands on, but I thought it was interesting and reinforces the fact that GAF isn't always an island, this is a feeling that could be spreading further into the masses.
This scenario may end up being more common than some people think. At my last job, a co-worker I carpooled with was a huge gamer, he owns a Wii, a 3DS, a 360 and does a lot of PC gaming, buys a ton of stuff on Steam. He used to own a PS3 and now does most of his gaming on XBL and his PC. One day we were talking about the current controversy with big companies coming down on used games and the possibility of 720 and PS4 locking out used games and maybe not even having BC and he cut me off right there in mid sentence and said "If ANY of that happens, I will NOT get the next XBox (he's already been done with Sony for awhile). I'll sell my 360 and just go with the next Nintendo console and my PC." Of course it may also help that he's a long time Nintendo fan and buys almost every first party game he can get his hands on, but I thought it was interesting and reinforces the fact that GAF isn't always an island, this is a feeling that could be spreading further into the masses.
Maybe, but the games are still made with the consoles in mind and that´s how they look. Only now where the Next-Gen machines are coming close we start to see the first games that are a real leap from 360 an PS3.
bgassassin
Member
Heh, I don't need to search. Heck I've pointed it out twice in the last month or two. Ever since you tried to pull that mess on me last year, I've noticed you do it quite often.
In this case I wouldn't rule it out till we have proper confirmation.
It's normal. This thread always had a doom and gloom cycle when it was on the gaming side.
Nah, I'm with AOC on this. There are a select few, but for the most part what has been happening recently is that games ported from the consoles are having DX11 effects "tacked on". This is why the death of this gen can't come soon enough.
How can you claim nothing is forthcoming when you acknowledge that their policy involves not revealing said games until the time roughly preceding release by a couple of months? You cannot. If anything we can infer that there is likely quite a few things on the horizon, given the fact that their teams haven't been working on Wii games at all for quite some time, and not all of them are on the 3DS. Your expectations that somehow Nintendo's games aren't coming are beyond rock bottom, they are completely unrealistic.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Maybe there is a market. You can't find out without giving it a shot.
I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. "Twice in the last month or two" doesn't sound like a very common occurrence, either.
XtremeXpider
Member
I take graphics seriously, and I enjoy "bad graphics" games, I don't get your point.
And I can't play Bayonetta, a lot of Sega and Capcom games and another games on PC.
You can't say "hey! you only need Wii U and PC and you will be happy", because not all console games are in PC, and you don't know the gaming preferences of people.
I´m especially worried about Nintendos first party efforts since they had several years time with almost no support for the Wii and still have nothing to show except a half assed 2D jump n run with Wii graphics in 720p and Pikmin which doesn´t look too impressive either.
I´m missing a real must-have which shows clearly: Yeah we want the core gamers back an have invested time and effort to show something wonderful for launch!
Typically launch games are almost entry titles into development. Metal Gear Solid 4. Grand Theft Auto 3. Gran Turismo 5. Super Mario Galaxy. HALO 3. God of War 3. Uncharted. No flagship game ever releases on launch because it obviously requires lengthier time with the finished development kits.
Falling back on memes and dismissing games as tech demos is just a lazy and weak argument. What is a tech demo? A tech demo is something like a moveable camera or a real-time cinematic.
Everything you are discussing there is rather nerd banter. The whole making a list "first party games because they are owned by SONY" is something for enthusiasts with a lot of time on their hands. All first party means is a game being released by the hardware maker. Third party means a game being published by a licensee. I guess you can argue about "internally developed first party" as opposed to "externally developed first party".
You new to this industry or something? Publishers won't do anything unless they think it's a sure thing or are financially compensated for the risk taken. There are rare exceptions to this, but very few of them.
This.
...
If you were satisfied with the Wii as a primary console what in the world about the Wii-U makes you somehow less optimistic than the Wii?
Wii had a gamecube port, excite truck and Wii-Sports.
Mario Galaxy wasn't announced at launch, and yet, oh. my. god. It was announced later, and still existed despite not being announced yet!
What is so much different about Pikmin 3, a core franchise that had no wii release, A 2D mario platformer, the follow up to the great Wii release, and Nintendo Land?
If anything Nintendoland should make you optimistic about the games featured getting console releases later, as the minigames should familiarize more people with the franchises and expand selling potential later down the road. If they were simply going for something uber accessible they would have not included nintendo games and just used Mii's, just like Wii-Sports.
So once again, if you were satisfied with Wii, what makes you think Nintendo is magically going to be worse on the Wii-U? Knowing what you know about how Nintendo releases info, why would you assume that there are simply no games there? It is illogical.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Mario Galaxy was announced at E3 2006.
XtremeXpider
Member
For some kind of player, maybe, it is a great idea, but I preffer the others uses of the controller screen, if I want to play on a small screen I will buy a portable console.
Spieler Eins
Member
Sure, Retros game and others will come. Whenever. If they succeed with this miserable launch window (which will imo probably expand at least until next E3), their efforts might sink even further though. Because the people will eat up some karaoke and fitness game cash-in anyway, while the core ,,fanbase'' is apparently satisfied by knowing that their favorite studio will eventually release a game at an unknown date.
Their policy never prevented them to show off games within a whole year at least and they still went full out with their 3DS unveiling not very long ago. (And the problem with that really just was the price and they held back finished games in favor of 3rd parties afterwards)
They took some minigames that were supposed to show of future concepts at last years show, added Legend of Zelda hats and some pictures from Warioware on the other hand. And that's supposed to be the flagship title of the console. With the Wii, I was eager to try out Wii Sports that actually had a much more intriguing concept, but I also knew that I could play the latest Zelda at launch, pick up their new arcade racing IP and look forward to Galaxy and Prime 3 within a year.
This time, there's Pikmin that I'd love play, but apart from there's only these cheap productions from internal studios, that certainly do not give me the feeling that Nintendos next step has been done. And beyond that? No one knows, great. Well, I can also give them P-100, I guess. Which could easily come out at the very end of the launch window or get delayed even further, since it doesn't even have a name yet.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
I owned every console this gen and it was by and large a waste. I was raised on Nintendo and SEGA games and for the most part those sorts of games were on a single console this gen. Especially considering that Nintendo is going to get more multiplats I really don't see any reason to grab an Xbox 3 or PS4*
*These consoles are complete unknowns at present so it's entirely possible they have some awesome feature that changes my mind.
There's a lot of people with a lot of doubt because they look back at Wii. But Wii was the only nintendo console with so outdated cheap hardware for it's time actually.
This is why nintendo needs to sell as many consoles before the other get out, so developers won't be able to ignore this market.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Wii U is different. The name might be the same but it's not going to be the unbearable, shovelware-filled waggle-fest that was the Wii. If a few 'hardcore' third-party games sell really well early on I think we'll get a port. This first year is going to set the tone, probably not even a year... just the first 6 months of software sales will be critical for third parties, like a first impression for a job interview. They're in wait & see mode at the moment.
Fixed. If they really want to, they can, even if it's to their own detriment.
Dreamwriter
Member
You guys and your spec wars. Me, I'm most excited about the Ouya this next generation, shows what I think about specs 
Spec-wise all I care is that the Wii U will use the same video architecture that all the other big consoles (and PC) use, so that it will take almost no effort to port a game to the Wii U. That was the big problem with that the Wii had, and the Wii U has it fixed, so I'm happy.
Spec-wise all I care is that the Wii U will use the same video architecture that all the other big consoles (and PC) use, so that it will take almost no effort to port a game to the Wii U. That was the big problem with that the Wii had, and the Wii U has it fixed, so I'm happy.together with Metroid Prime3, and maybe (just maybe) some other 2007 titles. Alongised the launch window software (Zelda TP, Wii Sport, Wii Play, Excite Truck, Warioware, maybe even Mario Strikers Charged). Plus, we had also snippets about DIsaster (that took a lot to come out) and Project Hammer (cancelled).
The more I think about Wii U's E3, the more I'm convinced that the GREAT problem was/is the absolute lack of "future vision" about "gamers" projects. Of course, a lot of people would not be interest anyway, but those who are here arguing "if purchasing it or not", would have been delighted by simply seeing a trailer with a couple of 2013 Nintendo titles (I don't know: Retro's new adventure, Good Feel's new platformer, Sora's SSB Universe...)
bgassassin
Member
Figured as much. You don't realize you do it. Just remember me the next time you get the urge to make a post labeling someone or something as attributed to it being a "Nintendo fan" thing.
Yep.
chertipros
Member
Something i've been wondering which has never been a topic of discussion here (as far as i know) is what is going to happen to nintendo's japanese B-teams? Since nintendo is expanding tremendously and are now considering outsourcing their big ip's to big third partys will nintendo still have a need for them in the upcoming generation? Most of them are pretty small devs too, and i doubt they are HD ready. (Companies like Skip Ltd, Noise, AlphaDream, Good Feel, Arzest, Suzak and Paon) It would be a shame if nintendo drops them because all of them have made some pretty good games
XtremeXpider
Member
I guess the third parties will wait until Xbox 720 and PS4 launch for deciding platform support, even if first year Wii U games sell well (Xbox 360 and PS3 versions will sell better).
Every game company can handle HD. Even small ones. The high risk HD production you are referring to is more towards the typical AAA Western market high budget game. But that isn't what these small Japanese developers would be creating anyway. They will make the same kind of games they have always been making, with higher resolution art. There is also a bigger medium with 3DS, and e-Shop that can release games for.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Why would third parties knowingly make decisions against their own financial interest? Do you genuinely think that these companies irrationally hate Nintendo so much that they'd throw money away rather than make games for them?
Edit: Never mind, I checked your tag. I guess that answers my question!
It's pretty fucking funny honestly. So much rage over something like this.
Figured as much. You don't realize you do it. Just remember me the next time you get the urge to make a post labeling someone or something as attributed to it being a "Nintendo fan" thing.
Nintendudes is his term for othering people overly positive about Nintendo. It might even be trademarked.
References: (chronologically top to bottom)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41637616&postcount=2881
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41637837&postcount=2887
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41639512&postcount=2902
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41639773&postcount=2908
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41640031&postcount=2920
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41640374&postcount=2928
and idemans scenario post 2 pages back
First the Scenarios for how Suspend Mode will reserve the memory to operate - under these conditions:
Conditions:
These 3 scenarios are built under the speculation that the Suspend Mode will enable FULL features of the OS while the games are paused.
There are several methods to achieve this, some more efficient than others.
NOTE: We don't even know if these is a real Suspend Mode - These are explained below:
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--------------------------------------------------------------
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Scenario SWX1: Standard
Method: Suspend RAM Reserve Enforced Permanently - Full Feature
Description: The reserve covers the OS RAM Footprint fully (full-feature) with a fixed amount and does not change wether any games are played or not.
Pros:
- Do everything you want while playing any game.
Cons:
- Valuable RAM sacrificed when Suspend Mode is not used (wasted, it's empty, sits there and does nothing)
Result:
- The most inefficient method.
RAM Usage: 1500MB Total Shared
Fits with the statement "between 1.5 and 1.1 GB reserved for applications"
If the final is 2GB total then I'm even happier but this is the "realistic" less-optimistic scenario here, let's hope nintendo is smarter than this.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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Scenario SWX2: Pagefile on Flash
Method: Suspend RAM Reserve Lessend - Flash used as RAM partially.
Description: Supend Mode uses reserved space on Flash Storage as it if were RAM, considerably reducing the RAM requirement.
Pros:
- Much less RAM sacrificed.
Cons:
- While in Suspend Mode, the system may respond/load slower due to lower storage perofrmance (but not that slow like HDD, it's NAND flash, stuff that SSDs use)
Result:
- This methods is significantly more efficient from the previous one, more than half of the RAM reserve could be cut down and that space on Flash Storage used instead.
RAM Usage: 1500MB Total Shared
For example if the Suspend Reserve needs to be 200MB, in this case we have it split, for example 120MB is located in a Flash Storage pagefile (reserved there and cannot be used)
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Scenario SWX3: - Game Memory Hibernation
Method: Game RAM Data Saved to Storage File
Description: When Suspend Mode is activated from menu at which the game is paused, the system dumps the game's process data (as much as possible, maybe games them selfs would need to support this) into reserved Flash Storage space, a specific file, when this process is complete the user can use the full features of the OS because you just most of the RAM available, while the game is practically paused, technically in "deep stasis" whatever you want to call it; when you want to continue all of the OS apps get closed, RAM is cleaned and Game is re-loaded from the saved file to RAM, may take a few moments to initialize, then you're back in the game where you stopped.
Pros:
- no RAM sacrifice
- full OS use available at any time
Cons:
- Small wait time when switching from and to OS when playing a game. (this is a non-issue at all, insignificant to what benefits are given with this)
Result:
- The most efficient method. (of of these 3, whatever nintendo cooks up we can only specualte)
RAM Usage: 1500MB Total Shared
I was talking about the 3rd scenario before when wsippel and others quoted me a few pages back, by saying that it doesn't work like that but "Suspend Mode" is just a name it doesn't mean anything how it works under the hood, so we should not compare directly with other software out there, if they know for sure I don't know, but this is an IDEA, i never said it works like this or anything hints to this. Because I don't know anything for sure, it's good feedback though, good if nintendo notices, and they will notice if the people talk about it enough!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now the "issues" - the problem why this suspend mode may not be as we think obviously for the worst case scenario.
The Rumor that spawned this is vague:
We have actually no idea how will it really work besides this rumor - or do we? - anyone want to correct me is welcome.
Big questions for this vague rumor:
Videochat is the only thing that is specifically noted to be only when not playing games, this is interesting ... but this is a rumor, could be twitsted, we can't confirm what kind of features will be in suspend, if at all multitasking(overkill) , still a speculation.
Still this a small hint that nintendo recognized the RAM reserve as a , this obviously confirms they're not going full retard on this spoiled-brat feature. (people have phones and everything else to stay online, not a critical mode, more of a selling point, but this is just my opinion since I'm a more of an offline gamer)
The above scenarios have been based on the full-feature (multitasking) focus. So we now are informed about these, we can see that the SWX1 is the worst case, you can't go more worse than that.
There are so many scenarios I cannot possible list, all the combinations, we have very little information to begin with, because they may enabled just messaging and small stuff and still use the easy method from SWX1 scenario, which may create a ... what, like ~50MB of RAM reserve, if.
Well that number is still a lot better than anything above 200 MB. If it's indeed this small it may NOT be a cause for such concern whatever method they use.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Dedicated flash may be used for whatever they develop, whatever memory management they have, caches, scratchfiles, no idea, that would require hacking.
Let me make a list I want to break down the OS:
Stuff that is always loaded in memory:
Stuff that is streamed when needed (buffered, gets deleted in next moment):
Stuff that's usually stored and gets loaded only while viewing:
Stuff that's loaded on demand and cleared when closed:
Not a full list though ... could be better. Ofcourse the whole thing is a lot more complex; this is like super simple, I didn't had more time.
Can you point me more specifically what you mean, like where exactly ?
EDIT: I can see someone else explained to you already but he was a bit wrong, WiiU GamePad has practically no latency, the tech is well developed, designed specifically for this, reggie talked about it in 2011.
The guy said 1 Frame which is also inaccurate since it depends with what kind of FPS the camera you're testing with is shooting at.
That's where you're wrong, there is no streaming of that kind as you see on the web.
They are not part of the same stream, that's ridicolous. The GPU outputs 2 separate signals, 2 separate renders, or 3 with one more controller, on PC this is called AMD/ATI Eyefinity, the tech is nothing new to PCs at all.
Stop talking about video stream, that is not the best term to use here, Streaming on web has artificial latency, there is no such method nor any remote similarity with this tech. Just name it video signal. the signal has practically no latency, the LCD has no processing it's all because it doesn't need it, the compression used is super-high efficiency that does not produce any lag noticable lag at all. Nintendo explained in patents that they may disregard the latency from the console output to the LCD on GamePad because it is so SMALL , for eample 0.00122 ms ... microseconds man. It's too small to be worried about.
I've already explained all this - here is the post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41100360&postcount=16527
Most of that was contributed to how unoptimized it was. Though I'm not really sure.
Net works better on a freaking nokia cell phone than on Wii, but still youtube is to heavy, didn't compare the specs actually.
More RAM always makes games better, it's way more important than people think, CPU and GPU capabilities would be useless if there's no space to fit them in.
You'll see ... 3 years down the road. We just want it to be as future-proof as possible. And it feels depressing to waste RAM for some unnecessary feature under already worrying RAM amounts.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41637616&postcount=2881
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41637837&postcount=2887
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41639512&postcount=2902
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41639773&postcount=2908
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41640031&postcount=2920
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41640374&postcount=2928
and idemans scenario post 2 pages back
First the Scenarios for how Suspend Mode will reserve the memory to operate - under these conditions:
Conditions:
These 3 scenarios are built under the speculation that the Suspend Mode will enable FULL features of the OS while the games are paused.
There are several methods to achieve this, some more efficient than others.
NOTE: We don't even know if these is a real Suspend Mode - These are explained below:
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--------------------------------------------------------------
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Scenario SWX1: Standard
Method: Suspend RAM Reserve Enforced Permanently - Full Feature
Description: The reserve covers the OS RAM Footprint fully (full-feature) with a fixed amount and does not change wether any games are played or not.
Pros:
- Do everything you want while playing any game.
Cons:
- Valuable RAM sacrificed when Suspend Mode is not used (wasted, it's empty, sits there and does nothing)
Result:
- The most inefficient method.
RAM Usage: 1500MB Total Shared
- ~30 MB = Kernel
- 200 MB = Suspend Reserve
- 1270 MB = available for games
Fits with the statement "between 1.5 and 1.1 GB reserved for applications"
If the final is 2GB total then I'm even happier but this is the "realistic" less-optimistic scenario here, let's hope nintendo is smarter than this.
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Scenario SWX2: Pagefile on Flash
Method: Suspend RAM Reserve Lessend - Flash used as RAM partially.
Description: Supend Mode uses reserved space on Flash Storage as it if were RAM, considerably reducing the RAM requirement.
Pros:
- Much less RAM sacrificed.
Cons:
- While in Suspend Mode, the system may respond/load slower due to lower storage perofrmance (but not that slow like HDD, it's NAND flash, stuff that SSDs use)
Result:
- This methods is significantly more efficient from the previous one, more than half of the RAM reserve could be cut down and that space on Flash Storage used instead.
RAM Usage: 1500MB Total Shared
- ~30 MB = Kernel
- 80 MB = Suspend Reserve
- 1390 MB = available for games
For example if the Suspend Reserve needs to be 200MB, in this case we have it split, for example 120MB is located in a Flash Storage pagefile (reserved there and cannot be used)
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Scenario SWX3: - Game Memory Hibernation
Method: Game RAM Data Saved to Storage File
Description: When Suspend Mode is activated from menu at which the game is paused, the system dumps the game's process data (as much as possible, maybe games them selfs would need to support this) into reserved Flash Storage space, a specific file, when this process is complete the user can use the full features of the OS because you just most of the RAM available, while the game is practically paused, technically in "deep stasis" whatever you want to call it; when you want to continue all of the OS apps get closed, RAM is cleaned and Game is re-loaded from the saved file to RAM, may take a few moments to initialize, then you're back in the game where you stopped.
Pros:
- no RAM sacrifice
- full OS use available at any time
Cons:
- Small wait time when switching from and to OS when playing a game. (this is a non-issue at all, insignificant to what benefits are given with this)
Result:
- The most efficient method. (of of these 3, whatever nintendo cooks up we can only specualte)
RAM Usage: 1500MB Total Shared
- ~30 MB = Kernel
- 0 MB = *Suspend Reserve* (obsolete)
- 1470 MB = available for games
I was talking about the 3rd scenario before when wsippel and others quoted me a few pages back, by saying that it doesn't work like that but "Suspend Mode" is just a name it doesn't mean anything how it works under the hood, so we should not compare directly with other software out there, if they know for sure I don't know, but this is an IDEA, i never said it works like this or anything hints to this. Because I don't know anything for sure, it's good feedback though, good if nintendo notices, and they will notice if the people talk about it enough!
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Now the "issues" - the problem why this suspend mode may not be as we think obviously for the worst case scenario.
The Rumor that spawned this is vague:
We have actually no idea how will it really work besides this rumor - or do we? - anyone want to correct me is welcome.
Big questions for this vague rumor:
- - Video chat will not be available in Suspend Mode ?
- - multitasking in suspend mode ?
- - watching friends play when suspend mode ?
Videochat is the only thing that is specifically noted to be only when not playing games, this is interesting ... but this is a rumor, could be twitsted, we can't confirm what kind of features will be in suspend, if at all multitasking(overkill) , still a speculation.
Still this a small hint that nintendo recognized the RAM reserve as a , this obviously confirms they're not going full retard on this spoiled-brat feature. (people have phones and everything else to stay online, not a critical mode, more of a selling point, but this is just my opinion since I'm a more of an offline gamer)
The above scenarios have been based on the full-feature (multitasking) focus. So we now are informed about these, we can see that the SWX1 is the worst case, you can't go more worse than that.
There are so many scenarios I cannot possible list, all the combinations, we have very little information to begin with, because they may enabled just messaging and small stuff and still use the easy method from SWX1 scenario, which may create a ... what, like ~50MB of RAM reserve, if.
Well that number is still a lot better than anything above 200 MB. If it's indeed this small it may NOT be a cause for such concern whatever method they use.
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Dedicated flash may be used for whatever they develop, whatever memory management they have, caches, scratchfiles, no idea, that would require hacking.
Let me make a list I want to break down the OS:
Stuff that is always loaded in memory:
- OS Kernel - less than 50MB
- OS Background Services (are part of the kernel ram footprint, stuff that manages inputs, net connection, etc because it also needs to work when you play games, at all times mr. obvious)
Stuff that is streamed when needed (buffered, gets deleted in next moment):
- OS UI Data
- OS Sound
- Videos
- Music
Stuff that's usually stored and gets loaded only while viewing:
- Photos, personal data
Stuff that's loaded on demand and cleared when closed:
- Apps, MiiVerse, Features whatever extra
Not a full list though ... could be better. Ofcourse the whole thing is a lot more complex; this is like super simple, I didn't had more time.
Can you point me more specifically what you mean, like where exactly ?
EDIT: I can see someone else explained to you already but he was a bit wrong, WiiU GamePad has practically no latency, the tech is well developed, designed specifically for this, reggie talked about it in 2011.
The guy said 1 Frame which is also inaccurate since it depends with what kind of FPS the camera you're testing with is shooting at.
That's where you're wrong, there is no streaming of that kind as you see on the web.
They are not part of the same stream, that's ridicolous. The GPU outputs 2 separate signals, 2 separate renders, or 3 with one more controller, on PC this is called AMD/ATI Eyefinity, the tech is nothing new to PCs at all.
Stop talking about video stream, that is not the best term to use here, Streaming on web has artificial latency, there is no such method nor any remote similarity with this tech. Just name it video signal. the signal has practically no latency, the LCD has no processing it's all because it doesn't need it, the compression used is super-high efficiency that does not produce any lag noticable lag at all. Nintendo explained in patents that they may disregard the latency from the console output to the LCD on GamePad because it is so SMALL , for eample 0.00122 ms ... microseconds man. It's too small to be worried about.
I've already explained all this - here is the post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41100360&postcount=16527
Most of that was contributed to how unoptimized it was. Though I'm not really sure.
Net works better on a freaking nokia cell phone than on Wii, but still youtube is to heavy, didn't compare the specs actually.
More RAM always makes games better, it's way more important than people think, CPU and GPU capabilities would be useless if there's no space to fit them in.
You'll see ... 3 years down the road. We just want it to be as future-proof as possible. And it feels depressing to waste RAM for some unnecessary feature under already worrying RAM amounts.
I don't see that happening. Nintendo is always gonna need someone to do the Mario Party, Kirby-spin off type games. There's also still the 3DS. There's also the eShop.
HD doesn't automatically mean AAA 500 people 100 million.
Teletraan1
Banned
I think a certain expectation was set when Wii first party support fell off a cliff a while back. They were supposedly jumping to next gen development to prop up the launch window of this system so it would have been nice to see at least something to hype up the console.
bgassassin
Member
You guys and your spec wars. Me, I'm most excited about the Ouya this next generation, shows what I think about specs
I read this as "Booya!!!", heh heh...
-sees recent posts in this thread-
<_<
>_>
<_>
-continues to orbit the sun-
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
I don't think the Pro Controller supporting rumble or not has been confirmed.
I still don't understand how they are going to stop normal Wiimotes from being used if those rumors are true. I don't see any reason for them to do that anyway.
All the videos that I am watching about this controller point to no rumble (e.g., the Engadget video).
I'm just worried (eh, just a bit) that Wii U games that will support the Wii Remote will also require Motion+ capabilities. As of right now, I have 2 Wii Remotes, 1 M+ attachment, and 2 classic controllers.
both those points have been discussed extensively earlier in this thread.
Pro Controller having rumble was confirmed by one of our own at a hands on session but the quote cannot be found since it might've been from a personal blog post that was linked in the old thread. if you feel like digging through it, go for it (it was in relation to a hands on session with either Rayman or ZombiU multiplayer, that's all I remember).
The Wiimote thing as well, there's 100% definite confirmation one way or the other. Official materials still say all Wiimotes period. Different people use different wording sometimes within the same interview so it's a little wishy washy.
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