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Wii U: Underpowered Hardware, 60 fps galore!!
- Thread starter megabytecr
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RoyalLaFlame
Banned
I'm always down for adding more Bayonetta to any thread!
WiiU v. 360
Credit to various people in previous Bayonetta 2 threads.
Gotdatmoney
Member
So your point is the WiiU has nice games at 60 FPS? Okay fine, don't think I ever said that wasn't the case. So what exactly are we discussing lol.
You are clearly grasping at straws with your point A. It's obvious that the Wii U is less powerful than the PS4 and there's tons of things you can do on that console that you can't on the Wii U. The GPU is less powerful so yes, there are things that will run on the PS4 that won't on the Wii U. Why we are even discussing this?
Yes graphics are a spectrum and graphical effects are not objective things. A certain hardware can run things with better or worse performance than a different hardware. Effects have a cost so if a platform can run something at a certain level that's impressing. That's the whole point of benchmarks. Of course you can't compare different games performance like that since performance isn't just about graphics but you can say what's impressive or isn't impressive to run at a certain level.
Honestly, I've said pretty much what I had to said. If you haven't gotten yet, or simply want to disagree, that's fine for me. We will be going in circles from now on since you keep insisting that graphics and fps are the same are both related to hardware power.
I never said that 60 fps + graphical fidelity wasn't related to power, I only talked about 60 fps. No need to move goal posts or keep going in circles. I said what I had to say.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
60fps gives a game a sense of urgency that you don't have in games that are 30 or less. This definitely helps in situations where the speed of your reactions is a factor.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
To me it seems like the hidden joke in all this is: if Nintendo was making games on platform exactly equivalent to a PS4, they'd probably still get criticized for poor graphics by some. Because regardless of absolute hardware power they would prioritize 60fps over everything else.
There would be plenty of "lush" 30fps games on the competition's hardware that would make prettier screenshots compared to Nintendo's output.
There would be plenty of "lush" 30fps games on the competition's hardware that would make prettier screenshots compared to Nintendo's output.
We're in agreement then; wonderful!
Many people push "WiiU games at 60 FPS, so Nintendo's got their priorities straight". Don't confuse that with them saying things about the hardware. Not saying you misunderstood anything, but that's what I hear much more commonly.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Wait. So is the argument here that a game on WiiU looks/runs better than the same game on decade-old hardware??
Because that's not a hill anyone should be willing to die on.
Me too haven't cared since 768p on 4:3 screens took over pc space. After that it's literally icing on the cake considering some of us here grew up on screens with limited color options, low refreshrate, and resolution was still low compared to how it's grown since vga and vesa standards were introduced.
Considering it's a tech argument and how people are talking about WiiU being weak for ports from HD twins it's quite valid.
AstroNut325
Member
In a decade. Wii U3 (Wii U Cube). That or PC emulation of the Wii U which is probably about 5-7 years away from being a reality.
darkazcura
Member
He's right. Last generation the system that "won" was the least most powerful. Same with the generation before. Now this generation the system with the most power is "winning". For it to flip flop like that shows how little the general population cares.
I like how a lot of people who were anticipating the PS4/One were hoping for a 1080p/60FPS standard this generation because of the increased power, but when the Wii U is doing 60 FPS it is purely a "design" choice and not a performance advantage over 360/PS3. Makes sense. I can call anything a design choice. 1080p is also a design choice too. I mean come on.
I think I'm just of the opinion that Bayonetta 2 looks gorgeous.
Feel free to disagree.
I think we're probably in agreement. I was mainly trying to point out that you sentence "The statement 60 FPS doesn't tell you anything about the strength of a piece of hardware." doesn't apply to this situation, since we know what WiiU games look like.
(Also I think you implied that I said the WiiU was more powerful than the other current gen consoles, so I wanted to dispel the notion that I said that)
Fair enough. I think I just took umbrage with your first post and how misleading it was. It's true to a degree, but not in reality, where we know exactly what all of these games look like.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Oh no, I'm not arguing against anyone who is happy with Nintendo's priorities, just as I'm not arguing against those who disagree with Nintendo on this point.
I generally don't argue against opinions, since we all have them and we're all entitled to them.
But I'm glad we're in agreement
Your original DK pic was from a preview build. Just look at the Life/Heart bar, it's pretty obvious..
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Part of the argument was Nintendo can run games at 60fps because there games "appear" simple
..then people like myself respond with, "what about dat Bayo?"
Then they are never heard of again.
Bayo2 is obviously an old game, but I love the "equal to PS360" comparison one moment, then when we show a game that surpasses it, we get the... "well it better be better than decade-old hardware" backpedaling
I'm not saying you do this.
It's not winning cause of power it's winning cause nintendo has thrown away a lot of oppotunties that Wii gave them. Same can be said for MS and the hubris they had in designing or launching the X1.
PS4 power is part of it's appeal but I think the fact it's software which until a MK8 out was easily the best on the market for most of the mainstream overall.
general population has always cared about power but after a certain point it's not the top priority it's more like a minimum and then whatever.
SUPERJEM94
Banned
This might seem like a stupid question, but do the Super Mario Galaxy games run at60 fps?(I never noticed since I just had fun with the games)
Hero of Legend
Member
F-Zero X is 60fps IIRC. Must've been GODLY back then.
are people really saying that though? hell the thread title and OP open with stating it is underpowered compared to XOne/PS4.
i have only seen a few people say that they have prefered the look and feel of the games on WiiU compared to many on onther current gen platforms. maybe that could have to do with expectations. But that doesnt necasailly translate to them thinking it is more powerful.
If anything it is using lesser tech, but in a what semas a grealty optimized configuration, coupled with effecient design in HW and SW, with some talented Nintendo artists.
Regardless I will say that I have been impressed with games on WiiU, just as much and in some cases more than with games on PS4, so far. Like MarioKart 8, ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Xenoblade, Zelda, etc. But it is also obvious to me that its likely that games like BF4, UC4, inFamous, and KZ would not be possible on Wiiu with the same performance as Ps4. But I also havent found the presenation or design of those games particularly interesting. Though they do look technically impressive.
Yes, they run at 60 fps.
Ah, yes, it is. That doesn't really make a difference, though, because I wasn't intending to do a picture comparison, but visually pointing out games that I assumed most people know the graphical discrepancies of.
yes they both run at 60
That's actually my point.
Hardware means shit. Sure, there are a few people, who buy consoles on hopes + fairy dust right at release or based on PR-speak alone. But the majority will buy console(s) based on games.
Did the average consumer care about HD HD HD last generation? I don't think so. Does the average consume care about Full-HD Full-HD Full-HD this generation? I also don't think so.
That's not what I said. But well, I imagine that the number of buyers who said "hmmmmm, let's buy the console that is the most powerful and not the one with the games that I want to play" to be quite small as well.
How well did the Neo Geo sell back then? Very poorly.
EAD wizards...
Shin Johnpv
Member
They haven't spent the last few years porting the game to Wii U, plus I doubt the port got the same level of attention or amount of time spent working on it as the original 360 version of the game did. It's still a port from the 360/PS3 that runs better. If you're going to move these goal posts then folks can move the goal posts of other titles saying the same amount of time/money wasn't spent on porting/developing the Wii U version there for that's why it runs worse.
People kept asking for a PS360 game that ran better on Wii U, there's one.
It really was. Love that game.
LittleJohnny
Banned
Most SNES/Genesis games ran at 60fps. So that is a correct statement, it has nothing to do with power, you can target your Hz from the very beginning and work your visuals around what the system can handle at that framerate.
killatopak
Member
The average gamers doesn't know full hd but when you compare the look of games on the Wii to the PS3/360 they're gonna see the difference whether they like it or not.
The average consumer wants 3rd party games the most. And where do 3rd party games play the best?
Now tell me if there are even relevant 3rd party games for the Wii U in the future.
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Fun fact: if the first gif doesn't look as smooth as the other two, your eyes aren't deceiving you! You too can see the difference! Bayonetta's cutscenes run at 30 FPS to apply extra image quality effects.
It's not moving the goalposts, it's just clarification that a game released significantly later on one than another is not a proper comparison and not an indication of more powerful hardware. But yes, at purely face value, and with no clarification, Bayonetta 1 will likely look better than the other versions.
Papacheeks
Banned
Read my previous post on how Zelda is rendered in cell shaded way, so they could somewhat achieve an open world zelda. Cell shaded rendering is easier to achieve and at 60fps.
I highly doubt they would be able to render a gritty open world zelda and keep it 60fps with high polly count models and high res textures.
Wonderful 101 is a great example actually. But it's all level based, and zoomed out, so character detail is mute, or unneeded. So they are able to Prioritize on what matter's for most Platinum games which is Frames.
They were designed to be a somewhat anime cartooney looking, and zoomed out. Now like I stated and many other's it was a design choice, because that's what the game was. It's more of a isolated example.
BTW Zombie U the more gritty game they have, is 720p upscaled and is 30fps.
Which goes to my argument.
Their internal designed IP's such as their Mario Line, and zelda, are going to look a certain way to avoid issues like Zombie U had with frame rate.
Isleofsancroy
Banned
yes, 60fps with solid color 240P textures from the Gamecube.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Just because it came later also doesn't mean they spent time and money on improving the engine, plenty of late ports have also been worse.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Naw, I'm pretty sure we're all pretty aware of the power of the 8th gen systems at this point. I prefer games at 60 FPS but it's not a make it or break it thing either. Solid framerate and good image quality are the 2 most important things to me in terms of the technical aspects of a game.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
This s both right and wrong, sure you can make almost any computer (but not literally anything electronics as has advanced a significant amount over the past few decades) move a white dot around in a game. But that is determined on the scope and type of game. Making the snes run a game like OoT run at 60fps would be extremely difficult regardless of the resolution, number of polygons etc.
So it very much is dependent on power, but the scope and type of game is also very important it determining whether it's possible.
Paracelsus
Member
None of the games on the Wii U wow the mainstream masses, and that is the first reason -other than personal grudges- publishers won't take it seriously. Wii U is what it is, a super 7th generation platform, it makes use of what the devs learned in the past 8 years to make their games shine, but they still are for all intents and purposes 7th gen-looking games, you can't sell them or your platform on the base that "they look great" because for 2014, they don't. PS4 and XBOX One only barely do, figures Wii U.
but but games on Nintendo HW are simplistic with no scope! This is a lie!
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Is it just me who can't see these gifs?
Back then the majority did not have a HD TV. Which means they actually did not see a difference - at least not resolution-wise.
If the average consumer would have cared that much about better graphics and HD HD HD, the Wii would not have been able to beat down the competition to a pulp. It was a wise choice to not enter HD back then, because HD wasn't widespread.
Just look at BluRay movies. The average consumer simply does not care about those. DVDs are (still) enough for the average consumer. There are even some weird people, who prefer "HD" streaming over BluRays.
If the average consumer would prefer the best framerate and best PQ out there, PCs would rule the world gaming-wise.
"3rd party games". What kind of games are those? Better say "the average PS3/360 consumer loves shooters"
navyguy734
Banned
the type of games matter, the effects turned on matter.. Cartoon graphics take less then attempting photo realistic.
Your also comparing a system that may give you games at 60fps, but the games obviously dont look as good as the ps4/x1 games. Nintendo has nothing that looks as good as ryse, nor does it has anything that looks as good as killzone.
But at the end of the day as long as the person has fun who cares about the fps and res
Your also comparing a system that may give you games at 60fps, but the games obviously dont look as good as the ps4/x1 games. Nintendo has nothing that looks as good as ryse, nor does it has anything that looks as good as killzone.
But at the end of the day as long as the person has fun who cares about the fps and res
killatopak
Member
Yeah. I doubt that's true.
th3sicknness
Member
If that list displays all games at 60fps then it is missing rayman which is also 1080 @ 60 fps.
Paracelsus
Member
Watch Dogs sold 4 millions faster than that graphics dude unveiled the Ubisoft "real graphics" fiasco.
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